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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 12:06 PM



Title: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
Happily, my new ProDancer-SUL just arrived from SkyBurner. It only comes in a single uniform color, so I chose RED. It is feather light (5 oz.) and, while assembling it for this pic, I can readily see just how fragile it is. Jon included an additional set of standoffs which itself tells me a lot...they must be pretty easy to break. ???

(http://db.tt/GwFt35K4)

The winds seem to be suitable for an SUL today (0.0-3.6 MPH; AVG=1.8 acc to my new Windtronic2), so I hope to have time for a maiden dance before sunset. I bought 100' lineset of 50# Skybond, which I plan to use for this kite. Over 5 MPH and it goes back in the bag and out comes the WidowMaker-STD.

Any tips/comments/advice will be welcome and appreciated.

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 12, 2012, 12:10 PM
it's a SWEET kite with a lot of potential! the stand offs aren't easy to break, sometimes they fall out though, if the glue stops sticking! Enjoy!


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 12, 2012, 12:12 PM
Happily, my new ProDancer-SUL just arrived from SkyBurner.


Any tips/comments/advice will be welcome and appreciated.

Ken

I would be willing to fly the kite for a couple of months to make sure it is flying correctly.    :D  :D  :D


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 12, 2012, 12:17 PM
upon looking at the pic again, when you said extra stand offs, are you sure those aren't the wing battons?


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 12:25 PM
upon looking at the pic again, when you said extra stand offs, are you sure those aren't the wing battons?

AHHHHH...WING BATTENS!!! :-[

Your post caused me to read the instructions again, more carefully this time, and sure enough, "Some models have battens which we store in the nose of the kite. The ProDancer batten pockets are on the backside of the kite." 

DOH! ::)

Thanks, Devin!

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 12, 2012, 02:35 PM
upon looking at the pic again, when you said extra stand offs, are you sure those aren't the wing battons?

AHHHHH...WING BATTENS!!! :-[

Your post caused me to read the instructions again, more carefully this time, and sure enough, "Some models have battens which we store in the nose of the kite. The ProDancer batten pockets are on the backside of the kite." 

DOH! ::)

Thanks, Devin!

Ken

Ken,

Are you sure you don't want me to fly the kite for a couple of months to test it out.   :D  :D  :D

Your kite is a real beauty. Enjoy

Wayne


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
Thanks, Wayne, very generous offer, but I'll hold on to her for a little while at least! ;)

I did get a chance to fly my new ProDancer-SUL for about an hour and a half late this afternoon. The winds were between 0 and 5, averaging around 2 MPH so, for a few minutes at a time, I was able to keep the kite in the air. I practiced turns, snap stalls (boy, am I lousy at those!), and two touch landings after 1/2 spin and full spin (getting better). I made one attempt at an axel, but it was a total bust, so I pretty much gave up on anything from the "trick" repertoire for this maiden voyage. I'll have to re-watch videos by Devin and Vertigo to see just what capabilities the PD-SUL has under skilled piloting.

The BEST news is that I had FUN and didn't break anything! The full red sail sure did look pretty in the sky... ;D

While I don't doubt that the PD-SUL can be flown in 1 MPH winds, it doesn't seem promising with my current skill set! I found that 2-5 MPH was definitely workable, but once the breeze dropped below 2 MPH, I just worked on gentle landings and then waited for another burst. At 7:30 pm, the winds pretty much died to 0-1 MPH, so I packed her up and headed home.

All in all, not a bad venture on the kite's day of arrival! :)

Ken


Title: Re: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: DD on July 12, 2012, 05:25 PM
What line weight and length did you use?


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 12, 2012, 09:32 PM
Lionelength and weight are important.  Sort of.  You must fly her on #50 line.  I am ,posting tonights video on #50 line 100 feet.  You fly quicker on shorter lines.

DD is absolutly right.. what are your lines..


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 12, 2012, 09:45 PM
agreed with joe and dd, 50 lb line is the way to go! I prefer 50lb 75foot skybond for fun flying with the PDSULs


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 10:00 PM
Guys:

As I mentioned in my first post, I am using 50# Skybond and 100' length.

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 12, 2012, 10:04 PM
check bridle settings. 4th knot down!! never move it off that setting


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 12, 2012, 10:06 PM
Devin:

I did not change it from the way Jon sent it to me; in fact, I think I read in the instructions that the bridle setting is not adjustable for the PD-SUL.

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 13, 2012, 06:57 AM
Thanks, Wayne, very generous offer, but I'll hold on to her for a little while at least! ;)

I did get a chance to fly my new ProDancer-SUL for about an hour and a half late this afternoon. The winds were between 0 and 5, averaging around 2 MPH so, for a few minutes at a time, I was able to keep the kite in the air. I practiced turns, snap stalls (boy, am I lousy at those!), and two touch landings after 1/2 spin and full spin (getting better). I made one attempt at an axel, but it was a total bust, so I pretty much gave up on anything from the "trick" repertoire for this maiden voyage. I'll have to re-watch videos by Devin and Vertigo to see just what capabilities the PD-SUL has under skilled piloting.

The BEST news is that I had FUN and didn't break anything! The full red sail sure did look pretty in the sky... ;D

While I don't doubt that the PD-SUL can be flown in 1 MPH winds, it doesn't seem promising with my current skill set! I found that 2-5 MPH was definitely workable, but once the breeze dropped below 2 MPH, I just worked on gentle landings and then waited for another burst. At 7:30 pm, the winds pretty much died to 0-1 MPH, so I packed her up and headed home.

All in all, not a bad venture on the kite's day of arrival! :)

Ken


Glad to hear about your 1st flight  8)

perfect kite to develop your low wind skills.


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 13, 2012, 07:02 AM
check bridle settings. 4th knot down!! never move it off that setting

I will double-check the settings, but I also wanted to ask about something else. I happened to have some extra vinyl end caps, so I placed one over each nock (3) for protection. Could they be adding enough weight to make a difference in the lightest wind conditions?

Thanks, Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 13, 2012, 09:11 AM
Dont worry about end caps, I don't use them. 3 end caps, for a total of 6, yes probably will make a difference. Just take them off, you wont need them. I've had my PDSULs for years and have never had a problem with the nocks breaking or anything.  :)


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: tpatter on July 13, 2012, 09:42 AM
Low wind flying is all about technique.   In the lightest of winds, slack is your fickle friend - often the enemy. 

Too much slack and the kite loses all pressure and falls to the ground.  Closely related are inputs - if they are too strong, then you get slack (see above).   The main issue is that there is not enough wind to straighten out any mistakes in slack managment.   So, you either have to not make any or move backwards in order to fix it.

Next time out, practice seeing how slowly that you can get the kite to fly in that low wind.  An SUL like that you can trust to fly extremely slowly - even move forward to see how slow it can go before it starts to fall.  Once you get used to that, then slow sweeping pulls on the kite when you want to go fast or need to account for zero wind seem more natural. 

Good luck,
Tom


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 13, 2012, 09:48 AM
Dont worry about end caps, I don't use them. 3 end caps, for a total of 6, yes probably will make a difference. Just take them off, you wont need them. I've had my PDSULs for years and have never had a problem with the nocks breaking or anything.  :)

Not sure what you mean by "a total of 6," but I'll remove those 3 end caps on your recommendation. Obviously, everything on this kite was designed to minimize weight and I just added some unnecessarily. Hopefully, taking them off will make a small but noticeable difference...

The winds are very light today (avg=1 MPH). Maybe I'll give it another shot -- loosey goosey! ;)

While I was typing, Tom added some practical advice. Now I have something specific to try... Thanks!

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: adx1592 on July 13, 2012, 10:01 AM
His advice is very, very helpful. Hit it spot on. I thought you meant 3 on each end nock, haha sorry. Either way, 3 will change it. The PDSUL and the NikNak are the kites I'm the most picky about, and I can feel whats weird with it at the end of the lines more than any other kite (probably the only 2). I'm really particular about the set up and what is and isn't on and off it. Probably because I've been flying him almost my whole life. Can't get enough of them. Keep crakin' away!  :)


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 13, 2012, 10:04 AM
Low wind flying is all about technique.   In the lightest of winds, slack is your fickle friend - often the enemy. 

Too much slack and the kite loses all pressure and falls to the ground.  Closely related are inputs - if they are too strong, then you get slack (see above).   The main issue is that there is not enough wind to straighten out any mistakes in slack managment.   So, you either have to not make any or move backwards in order to fix it.

Tom

Never had low wind flying explained better. Thanks Tom.  :)

Have had a year of frustration, with slow improvement learning to fly in lower winds.  :-[

You have given me a key tip to watch in low wind flying.  ;)


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 13, 2012, 10:21 AM

The winds are very light today (avg=1 MPH). Maybe I'll give it another shot -- loosey goosey! ;)


Hey Ken,

The ProDancer is the opposite of your Skynasaur Trooper. It has light pull on the lines and likes slow, smooth movements.

Your Trooper has a firm pull on the lines and and takes long and stronger pulls for turns.

two different flying inputs for these kites.

 


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 13, 2012, 05:41 PM
Tom hit it in the head.  Try flying in as light as possible.  I love doing that.  I practice in almost no wind always.  I keep moving in closer and pop the air out of the sail.  Some my 540's are done with almost no air.  Walk forward...get the feeling and then walk back for more pull... 

I use a wind meter in checking air.. or I call 1-586-783-3112  it's the Beach.. I get spot on wind speed and direction.  Call the number and listen to the report.  I luv it.. 


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 14, 2012, 09:13 AM
Tom hit it in the head.  Try flying in as light as possible.  I love doing that.  I practice in almost no wind always.  I keep moving in closer and pop the air out of the sail.  Some my 540's are done with almost no air.  Walk forward...get the feeling and then walk back for more pull... 

I have been trying to practice in light winds, but it sure is challenging when my windmeter shows < 2 MPH!

I am using 50# Skybond, but the length (pre-made) is 100'. Is that too long for 0-2 MPH winds and could that be a partial explanation as to why it seems so difficult to keep the kite in the air? Maybe I should get a 50# by 50' lineset. It seems like it would require less field area as well as walking.

Thoughts? What line length were you using in the last video you made?

Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Allen Carter on July 14, 2012, 09:34 AM
I've flown the PDSUL indoors on short lines and outdoors in dead calm on long lines. Once you get a feel for how little pressure is needed on the sail to keep it moving, you can walk slowly backwards and do a verrrry slow 360 with no effort. I find that very floaty kites like the PDSUL are actually harder to fly in very low wind than in no wind at all. In 1-2 wind you're always having to balance your own movements to what the wind is doing to the kite.

My advice would be to avoid all slack line tricks until you can fly the kite smoothly and consistently. Doing axels and stuff will just slow down the real learning, which is how to keep the kite in the air. The PDSUL is a pretty difficult kite to do slack line tricks with anyway. It's such an ancient design, it doesn't make things easy. Some folks do a nice variety of tricks with the PDSUL, but they have a lot of low wind experience in general and PDSUL experience in specific. Just fly the kite. It's a blast.

Low wind flying is the best, but a very different skill set from flying in regular wind with regular kites. Well worth the effort!

Have Fun!


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 14, 2012, 01:33 PM
Al,is so right. Just get to know her.  That balance between low wind and walking..


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: tpatter on July 14, 2012, 07:57 PM
100' ?

Line length is a personal thing and I've never flown a pdsul, but, to my thinking, that's too long for a no-wind SUL.  If you are at the beach and have smooth, smooth low wind then I guess.

I generally fly my SULs in super light wind on shorter lines, maybe 65', but kites like the 4D on even shorter, maybe 35-50'.  If its a low, slow flyer, then you can go pretty darn short on the lines and have a great time.   It also makes 360s easier.

Tom


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 14, 2012, 09:20 PM
If you check my video opf the Sul and Inak.. I think I flew on 100 footer's.  I know I have flown the Inak on 100'.   I usually fly my Ocius Sul on #50-75' ... Jon broke my line one day.  Allthey hadin stock was #50-60' and #50-100'... Works for me...  Of course the shorter lines.  Different kite.  Next low wind day... I'll fly on all three line sets...


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Allen Carter on July 14, 2012, 10:53 PM
The PDSUL is a big kite with a fairly large turning radius. The more sky you have to move around in the better. I would say 75' is minimum for me, but 100' is way better. When learning how to fly in low wind, its great to be able to get a lot of altitude. More time to recover when the kite lodes drive.


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Hadge on July 15, 2012, 02:40 AM
When I'm flying my UL ( HQ Shadow) I don't bother with any straps, I just hook my fingers through the loops on the end of the lineset. You get a much better, direct, feel of what is happening to the kite and the wind.  Also when the loops start to hurt your fingers you know it's time to put the UL away!


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: bt on July 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
The PDSUL is a big kite with a fairly large turning radius. The more sky you have to move around in the better. I would say 75' is minimum for me, but 100' is way better. When learning how to fly in low wind, its great to be able to get a lot of altitude. More time to recover when the kite lodes drive.

+1.....Maybe it's this particular kite....PDsul....but for me (and some others it seems) 100' of 50 (75 if there is a bit of wind) lb. lines is pure bliss. Agreed other sul's I have or have flown, like shorter lines...but for my old school sloooow floaty style this is what I fly mine on. I also have a PDul and it likes 75/85' lines.....the 100's are ok....go figure.
The first time I flew one was one of Ray Bethell's...he was bugging me about how much I was moving with a Rev 1.5 sul on 50' lines. He said try this...one of his PDsul's on long lines and I was blown away.....still am....
bt


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 17, 2012, 05:14 PM
Just the mentionof Ray Bethel makes you sit back and smile... what a wonderful man.   Is he still going ???


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: mikenchico on July 17, 2012, 08:41 PM
Just the mentionof Ray Bethel makes you sit back and smile... what a wonderful man.   Is he still going ???


(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/f9/9f98cd62-2e82-11e0-9ccc-0017a4a78c22/4d48d9a35d981.image.jpg)
Like the Energizer Bunny

(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rMhb6LvMogc/TkthpkUwYAI/AAAAAAAAAhg/YHRDe261C0s/s640/Img_2300a.jpg)
And he still attracts the ladies

Stop by his site at http://www.raybethell.com/ (http://www.raybethell.com/) to have a look around and check his calander (he is taking some time off this year) or his Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/ray.bethell.1) for a bunch of pics .



Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 18, 2012, 02:50 PM
100' ?

Line length is a personal thing and I've never flown a pdsul, but, to my thinking, that's too long for a no-wind SUL.  If you are at the beach and have smooth, smooth low wind then I guess.

I generally fly my SULs in super light wind on shorter lines, maybe 65', but kites like the 4D on even shorter, maybe 35-50'.  If its a low, slow flyer, then you can go pretty darn short on the lines and have a great time.   It also makes 360s easier.

Tom
There are obviously different opinions concerning the most effective line length for the PD-SUL, but I am lining up with Tom on this one. I just ordered a set of 50# Speedline in 60' length. I think it will be easier for me in really light winds (< 2 MPH) to keep the kite aloft without being a sprinter by training (especially backwards!). I am struggling with the tension/slack when the length is 100' and the winds are 1-2 MPH. I cannot seem to backpedal fast enough to keep air in the sails and I have tried! :( You guys that can do it are to be envied, but it's just not happening for me. I am willing to acknowledge that it's a skill I haven't learned, so I am going to try on 40% shorter line and see what happens. If nothing else, it'll be part of my continuing education and, if the 60' line doesn't improve the experience, I'll just save it for a glider that I am quite sure is in my future sooner or later (I am on the Chiroptera waiting list).

Thanks, Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 18, 2012, 05:44 PM
I just ordered a set of 50# Speedline in 60' length. I think it will be easier for me in really light winds (< 2 MPH) to keep the kite aloft without being a sprinter by training (especially backwards!). I am struggling with the tension/slack when the length is 100' and the winds are 1-2 MPH. 


Good idea, remember their is no perfect length and each length has the pluses and minuses. I found using different line lenghts improved my skills quicker.

I cannot seem to backpedal fast enough to keep air in the sails and I have tried! :( You guys that can do it are to be envied, but it's just not happening for me. I am willing to acknowledge that it's a skill I haven't learned,


This is a skill you will learn, just keep practicing. First you will fly in 3 mph, then 2 mph then 1mph  ;D


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 18, 2012, 07:27 PM
Ken,  I luv flying with my #50 75 footer's...don't get me wrong.  #50 75' or 60' will be fine...


Title: Re: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: DD on July 18, 2012, 07:39 PM
I fly mine on 50# 50'or 75'. I also have a set of really short indoor lines, not that I have flown it indoors


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: bt on July 18, 2012, 10:08 PM
I, as well, have and enjoy (how could one not?) my PDsul on 50,75,85,and 100' x 50lb plus 75 and 100`x 75lb lines. Each has it`s pro`s and con`s dependent on one`s flying style....old school here.
As per my previous post the 100`x 50lbs are my faves BUT ONLY if there is a perfect no wind...which is rare indeed...otherwise I prefer 0 wind decas.... :-X
When I first tried Ray`s PDsul on the long lines I only managed to keep it in the air for about half a minute...however I could feel the kite really wanting to fly but my (low wind) skills weren`t there at all. Now many many moons later I sorta get the hang of it...
bt




Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 22, 2012, 07:59 AM
Wind hasn't been co-operative past couple days.  I flew yesterday at a Kite Fest in Maumee State Park Ohio.  Wind was real low.  I flew my Red Ocius Sul.. Broke lower leading edge.  :-[ ( Jon took it home with him.  He'll fix it .... This is one reason to move to Michigan if you fly... Break a kite take it to Jon..minutes later it's fixed. )  ;) ;) ;)  Switched to Blue Ocius Sul.  The Ocius Sul loves doing turtles and multi Lazy Susan's. 

I started out with the Widow Marker Ul ... even got 3 1/2 FFF (American Version) ... So close I could feel those straps on my Fingers.   :P :P :P :P  Then the wind died.  Kites came down.  Even the 75 kites on one string.

However,everyone had to watch Vertigo flying his Sul... I actually walked a long distance from gang of flyers.  When kites went down, individuals actually thought the wind was by me. Suddenly I had people coming to my area..  Single line kiters.  Big Para-Sail flyers.  I watched as they took up space where I was flying.  Inside I thought "... how rude..."  >:(   I also knew I was flying a Sul and they were not going to get up... I was right..  :D :D :D :D

Soon I was by myself again...  8) 8) 8) 8)

I was going to set-up the Dancer but just flew till I was hot and tired.  I needed the higher wind. I am so close. 

Worse case yesterday I did FFF's three in a row twice,but No Video camera.   :D :D :D :D  I am going to do four in a row many times over after I get them... But I need four for my straps.  First set gets Norm sewing.  I am sure he is up night worrying right now..   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


I can hear Norm right now  ...  "...What Me Worry ..." Alfred E. Neuman President of the " American Version French Flic Flac minus $24.51 Inc.".


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 24, 2012, 02:51 PM
A 60' Speedline 50# lineset arrived and I tried it out in very light winds (1-2 MPH). I still found it exceedingly difficult to keep the PD-SUL except when a > 2 MPH breeze came along... I thought that, being so much closer to the kite (actually surprised me!), it would require considerably less pedaling, but it was not as dramatic as I had hoped. When the wind eventually died down below 2 MPH consistently, I gave up fighting with it. It was really hot and humid and I just didn't have the energy to work that hard and sweat that much!

Yesterday afternoon, the winds were averaging in the 2-3+ MPH range, so I chose the longer 100' Skybond (50#) and had a pretty nice coupla hours flying the PD-SUL. When the winds died, occasionally, instead of backpedaling furiously, I just used those opportunities to improve my landing skills while waiting for the breeze to pick up. Overall, it was a decent experience, but I do have a few questions for the experts:

1) I believe it is possible to do an axel or 1/2 axel with the PD-SUL. I'm pretty sure I've seen it done on a Devin video; however, I must be missing something critical. Every time I tried to give slack to one wing and tug/pull the other at varying strengths (anywhere in the window), that upper wing just caught wind and wouldn't rotate. What is the secret to get the kite to spin on its axis?

2) I tried to do a maneuver where I fly straight down and, then, push both arms aggressively to put the kite on its belly. Even when I quite literally RAN forward, the kite just went straight down and bumped its nose. How do you get it to flare or pancake? Eventually, I'll be asking how to get it out of that position, but first I'd like to see if I can even get to that point with this kite.

3) I also tried a turtle where I fly straight upward, then push both arms sharply after popping. The kite is supposed to fall on its back if done properly, but I am having a devil of a time getting it to backflip reliably. Once, it kinda did flop back, but then, it just floated and fell out of the sky.

Any helpful suggestions?

Thanks, Ken


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Wayner on July 24, 2012, 05:00 PM
When the wind eventually died down below 2 MPH consistently, I gave up fighting with it. It was really hot and humid and I just didn't have the energy to work that hard and sweat that much!

I feel your heat. Only get 2 early morning hours before the heat rolls in.   :-[

When the winds died, occasionally, instead of backpedaling furiously, I just used those opportunities to improve my landing skills while waiting for the breeze to pick up.

Good plan

I believe it is possible to do an axel or 1/2 axel with the PD-SUL. I'm pretty sure I've seen it done on a Devin video; however, I must be missing something critical. Every time I tried to give slack to one wing and tug/pull the other at varying strengths (anywhere in the window), that upper wing just caught wind and wouldn't rotate. What is the secret to get the kite to spin on its axis?

Sounds like your problem is the kite is not stalled.
Ken, you will have better success learning these tricks on your WM and then trying them on the PD-SUL. Tricks on any SUL are difficult because of their lack of mass and require specific timing.

2) I tried to do a maneuver where I fly straight down and, then, push both arms aggressively to put the kite on its belly. Even when I quite literally RAN forward, the kite just went straight down and bumped its nose. How do you get it to flare or pancake? Eventually, I'll be asking how to get it out of that position, but first I'd like to see if I can even get to that point with this kite.

Chilese works with me all the time on this on.  ;)
Try flying the kite off to the side where there is less/no wind. Pull you hands back as far as possible. Walk forward to slow down the kite. Sweep you hands forward quickly but smoothly.

3) I also tried a turtle where I fly straight upward, then push both arms sharply after popping. The kite is supposed to fall on its back if done properly, but I am having a devil of a time getting it to backflip reliably. Once, it kinda did flop back, but then, it just floated and fell out of the sky.
 


The PD-SUL is old school kite and designed for flying not tricking. Not sure it will go into the turtle. SUL's like smooth movements and your pop maybe to aggressive. Plus you need to move forward.

Here are some tricks to try with the PD-SUL
 - Side Slide
 - Pinwheel http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7674.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7674.0)
 - 360


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: mikenchico on July 24, 2012, 06:22 PM
Hot & humid will suck the wind out of  anybody's sails   :( 

Seriously though it does seem to make a difference. I have spent hours flying a standard at waters edge in a cool ocean breeze I could barely feel that I wouldn't have bothered to launch an ultralight in at home. I also know that here in the heat updrafts come into play, the wind may be blowing where you are standing but there may be nothing 100' away at the kite. We experience that all the time during the summer. An updraft may make you feel wind at your back but if it is between you and the kite the wind may be at its back also. I've had kites fall forward when I feel wind on my neck.

Early mornings before the heat sets in might find better conditions, or any body of water will often generate a stable updraft enough for your PDSUL.



Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: vertigo2u on July 25, 2012, 07:38 AM
Kenny,Kenny,Kenny,

O.K.  You have to be very gentle when trying those tricks. But don't try them right away.  Fly her and fly her.  take off an land.  DO IT 1000 times.  Always plan on doing what ever you learn a 1000 times... Taking off and landing is not easy the first time one try's.  Everything in this sport takes practice.

Flying the Dancer is nothing different.  Practice.      Wine and dine her for awhile.  Enjoy the color against sunsets.  Do some slides ... But NOOOOOOOOOOoooo Kenny wants to take her to bed right away.

Re-watch my pro Dancer video.  Turtle is a real tough trick with her.  Because of her design she will stay on her back..

You can axel and but I would forget the Fades or Pancakes.  She is light and needs to be treated gently.  So throwing her out for a fade and pulling you arms back to quickly... can only upset her.  She is old School meaning her design wasn't made for some quick Cascade tricks or multi lazy Susan's.

She doesn't do DISCO or SALSA .. Now Waltz,Fox Trot, ... forget about it..

360's are nice but take a ton of effort and sweat. In the end you ran around in a circle and then What ??

She does pretty 540's.  Just fly for a couple weeks. 

NOW MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE FOR LOW NO WIND... CALL JON AND BUY A "INAK".
In my latest video you see the Ocius fall to the ground.  you also see the Inak doing 540's when the Ocius Sul and Pro dancer could not fly....

BUY A "INAK" for those days when it's ZERO .... watch the video and comment..Vertigo out !!
 

http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SB005 (http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SB005)


Title: Re: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!
Post by: Ken Bour on July 25, 2012, 08:37 AM
Flying the Dancer is nothing different.  Practice.  Wine and dine her for awhile.  Enjoy the color against sunsets.  Do some slides ... But NOOOOOOOOOOoooo Kenny wants to take her to bed right away.

Hilarious -- I won't deny it! :D

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Re-watch my pro Dancer video.  Turtle is a real tough trick with her.  Because of her design she will stay on her back...

OK, I am striking turtles from the dance card!

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You can axel and but I would forget the Fades or Pancakes.  She is light and needs to be treated gently.  So throwing her out for a fade and pulling you arms back to quickly... can only upset her.  She is old School meaning her design wasn't made for some quick Cascade tricks or multi lazy Susan's. She doesn't do DISCO or SALSA .. Now Waltz,Fox Trot, ... forget about it..

Got it! No flipping in either direction although, watching your videos, it looks like you start your 540's by flying downward and then working in a fade before spinning the kite. Maybe I am visualizing it incorrectly.

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360's are nice but take a ton of effort and sweat. In the end you ran around in a circle and then What ??
She does pretty 540's. Just fly for a couple weeks. 

I did attempt one 360 and nose planted (the kite) before I got through the first 1/4 turn! Maybe I'll try again when the weather is a bit cooler and there is practically no wind to overcome.

Concerning the 540, I will hold off on that trick and take your advice to just wine and dine for awhile. 8)  There's plenty to work on with turns, figures, landings, takeoffs, and stalls. In a few weeks, I'll be back asking about how to perform the 540; but, for now, I understand that we need to date a while longer before :-*!

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NOW MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE FOR LOW NO WIND... CALL JON AND BUY A "INAK".

Sounds like a plan!

Thanks, Ken