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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: boomertype on August 15, 2012, 09:36 PM



Title: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: boomertype on August 15, 2012, 09:36 PM
Headed to WSIKF with 2 EO6 and 5 EO10 kites. Planning to build a active train with all 7 kites. I have several "y" swivels and lots of line. I'm thinking of configuration of - 10 - 10 - 6 - 10 - 6 - 10 - 10. The first kite then 20' then a swivel with a 10' leader (kite on end of leader) 20' to the next swivel another 10' leader and repeat for each kite on a leader at each swivel.
Any thoughts on lengths between swivels or length of swivels?
I promise video.  ;)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 04:07 AM
On my frido chain the branching setup is

The top kite is on a 30' line. At the bottom of that is a 20' branch.  Each of these attach to a simple swivel. A 4" pigtail attaches bothering of those swivels together. Then that pigtail is attached to a swivel....
then coming downwards this is repeated:
A 20' branch and a 30'straight line.
Again each has a swivel, and a pigtail attaches those two swivels together....other end of the pigtail is connected to a swivel and then to the next section.

Repeat as needed/wished.....I have I think three lines set up like this for 10 or so kites.....fridolin had a line setup for 30+ fridos......

This should help
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fmzylo4ISic/UCzSaddZNOI/AAAAAAAAXpo/LUbxzpgZ8rM/s912/1345114703395.jpg)

This is how the frido line flies
Fridolin Anders Frido 2 Stack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV6PC1SG9aM#)

(sorry wrote this on the tablet this morning so the http stuff wonked off on me)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: MtnFlyer on August 16, 2012, 06:24 AM
Rob, can you sketch that? Haven't had my coffee yet.  ::)

(btw, the link didn't work for me)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: MtnFlyer on August 16, 2012, 06:28 AM
Jim, how 'bout something like this, from DG's swallow page...

http://www.gombergkites.com/G-SWA2.JPG (http://www.gombergkites.com/G-SWA2.JPG)
(swallows available from Steve)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 06:29 AM
i do need to get a new video of the fridos soon....now that i have a hd video camera...but as they are flying about so fast the are hard to focus on....


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: MtnFlyer on August 16, 2012, 06:40 AM
Thanks, Rob. Now I understand and I still haven't had my coffee.  ;)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: boomertype on August 16, 2012, 08:14 AM
All the ideas are what I'm thinking.
Actually I have three point swivels. Dave uses one for each kite, looks like Rob uses 3.
I'm going to use 30 feet for the distance from the lead kite, and then 20 feet between each swivel. I'm thinking now I will use 15 feet on each leader to each swiveled kite.
Rob I have one Frido, never saw another till I saw your video.
I'm really curious on how active this I'll be.
Bob, I wish you could see it first hand.
If it isn't too chaotic I might fly it at the far corner of the Mass Ascension for cellulars.
Thanks for the input!
Keep it coming.  ::)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 11:22 AM
I use, because fridolin used, two single barrel swivels....the fact that they are then larksheaded at one side is nice (and i feel better than the 3 direction) because then the branch can swing out better in any direciton needed....
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVZ1-QkQXX1i2yvipOruD0fKNqeeJmufyiSfQxP4_0wg0o4Au1)

The Fridos are ACTIVE!   if you look at your bridle you might notice that there is a black mark and a red mark...the red mark was Frido's "active" setting for the train...and the black was his single stable flyer mode..

Give yourself a LOT of space....when i fly the frido line i am stretching about 500' downwind...and the kites if they get organized can pull sideways about 200'....and grab onto things like an octopus...

If you change the top kite to something a lot more stable like a DC (i would stay with a framed kite not a foil since the line will be bouncing and that could collapse the foil) it would pull straighter and keep the line more in check....


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 11:23 AM
btw: i only used barrel swivels instead of ballbearing swivels because of the cost inherent....


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: madhabitz on August 16, 2012, 12:34 PM
I bought Gomberg's Swallow Train awhile back. I love that thing! You probably already get this part, but just in case.... the idea is that you allow more footage between branches than each branch can reach. They will still tangle themselves sometimes when two branches fly toward each other but for the most part it works.

The Swallow's line has one barrel swivel for each branch, with a bead stopper on each side of it. The bead is just a bead from the local craft shop and is just a tad larger than the hole on the swivel. The stopper is held in place with a simple overhand knot (iIRCC). The whole thing works quite well.

...and the kites if they get organized can pull sideways about 200'....and grab onto things like an octopus...

Okay, that cracked me... probably because it's true. Those suckers can organize themselves, especially if you have turbulent winds!

Quote
If you change the top kite to something a lot more stable like a DC (i would stay with a framed kite not a foil since the line will be bouncing and that could collapse the foil) it would pull straighter and keep the line more in check....

Have to agree-- having a stable lifter kite works so much better than leaving all those bouncing lines to their own devices.


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 12:52 PM
The Swallow's line has one barrel swivel for each branch, with a bead stopper on each side of it. The bead is just a bead from the local craft shop and is just a tad larger than the hole on the swivel. The stopper is held in place with a simple overhand knot (iIRCC). The whole thing works quite well.
Got a chance to snap a picture???

...and the kites if they get organized can pull sideways about 200'....and grab onto things like an octopus...

Okay, that cracked me... probably because it's true. Those suckers can organize themselves, especially if you have turbulent winds!
The scariest thing was one day i was flying it and i looked over and the entire line that i had up that day (13) was perfectly stable....each flying on a ~45 degree angle above the main line....i had to stop and stare at it since the line is not supposed to do that at all!   
That has never happened to me since...they are always active......


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: madhabitz on August 16, 2012, 01:30 PM
Sure, I will snap a pic later tonight-- am off in a bit and my camera is somewhere buried in one of my bags in the car. It's much simpler than my words would indicate.


Quote
Okay, that cracked me... probably because it's true. Those suckers can organize themselves, especially if you have turbulent winds!

Quote
The scariest thing was one day i was flying it and i looked over and the entire line that i had up that day (13) was perfectly stable....each flying on a ~45 degree angle above the main line....i had to stop and stare at it since the line is not supposed to do that at all!   
That has never happened to me since...they are always active......


Hmmm..... I am hearing scary music.

Okay, a google search found this blog entry -- check the end of the entry:
http://b-kites.blogspot.com/2006/01/birds-line.html (http://b-kites.blogspot.com/2006/01/birds-line.html)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 16, 2012, 02:44 PM
ooo...looking at the line and those beads it looks like all of those beads need to be strung onto the main line ahead of time....the way i did mine it is all individually pieces of line that is larksheaded individually....have to grab mine to take a picture of it....


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: HiFly on August 17, 2012, 01:04 AM
I use the 3-way swivels for my birds (http://youtu.be/d3VacmnPzGc) and beer crates (http://youtu.be/YshIb_6MhRo)
easy and works

more elaborate is the version you can find here
http://www.heinrich-hohmann.de/cms/index.php?idcatside=26 (http://www.heinrich-hohmann.de/cms/index.php?idcatside=26)
it works well with 34 swallows (http://youtu.be/5E0Qc7BUXjs?t=30s), but a lot of work to splice all the lines and loops


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: boomertype on August 17, 2012, 08:11 PM
I use the 3-way swivels for my birds ([url]http://youtu.be/d3VacmnPzGc[/url]) and beer crates ([url]http://youtu.be/YshIb_6MhRo[/url])
easy and works

more elaborate is the version you can find here
[url]http://www.heinrich-hohmann.de/cms/index.php?idcatside=26[/url] ([url]http://www.heinrich-hohmann.de/cms/index.php?idcatside=26[/url])
it works well with 34 swallows ([url]http://youtu.be/5E0Qc7BUXjs?t=30s[/url]), but a lot of work to splice all the lines and loops

I have 3 way swivels for my setup.
The link you added is great.


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: AntBTas on August 19, 2012, 01:26 AM
Wow, this topic has come along at just the right time for me, I've got three EO 6's on the way and want to make an active train with them   ;D

It's answered all my other questions about swivels and attachments etc, but I've just got a newbie question about what line strength I would need for the primary line.  For a single kite it comes with 20lb line, so I'm guessing that with three on there I'd need at least 60lb?  Is that about right or is there some weird aerodynamic law i need to take into account when their bouncing all over the place  :D

I actually wondered if I'd get away with using the original 20lb line, but that didn't seem like a good idea...


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 19, 2012, 05:54 AM
For just three the line with it would be fine......
For more than three definitely kick the line weight up......personally I like 50# and above for all of my single lines as I can hold onto it better...


Title: Re: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: madhabitz on August 19, 2012, 09:22 AM
I'd wondered about this too. The way I figured it the main line should be heavy  enough for the lifter kite. Then the branches  could be whatever the branched kites came with. I do wonder if the branch lines are too gossamer... will they end up being tons harder to deal with in terms of untangling? BTW don't forget to put swivels on the kite end of the branch,  too.

I still haven't had a chance to grab a picture - will try to get one soon. As for the beads/swivels being all on one line as opposed to separately assembled sections,  in the end I really liked having it all one line. Before I got the swallows, I made a line by larks-heading 3 swivels together with detachable branches. Figured I could add as many sections/ kites as I wanted each time I wanted to use it.

Turns out my way was a whole lot more work. If I don't want all six birds I can just larkshead its branch to the main line to get it out of the way.

A truly fun project-- can't wait to see what you come up with!

Nancy


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: thief on August 19, 2012, 10:37 AM
The branched lines on my stacks are 50#....the main line around halfway and upwards the length of the line is 100# and the lower half is 150#.....
i do not have swivels at the end of the branches (kite end)...


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: boomertype on August 19, 2012, 11:09 AM
For line weight I'n using some 90 Spectra Sport that I used with first dual line kite. It's been cut into seqments. Should be light enough and strong enough.


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: mikenchico on August 19, 2012, 07:06 PM
I'd go up on the line wieght as much for the abrasion resistance as for the pull. The kites in a train like this can run into the lines, the edges of the EO's aren't real abrasive but $4 - $6 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=11) seems cheap insurance for $120 worth of kites. Or splurge $11.00 on the black 50 lb, it disappears in the air more then the white.



Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: boomertype on August 19, 2012, 07:24 PM
I'm using 90lb Spectra Sport.  8)


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: Bert M on August 20, 2012, 01:20 AM
Hi, If it is still of any use ;-).
I have added a better drawing on how my kite train is built-up.
http://b-kites.blogspot.com/2006/01/birds-line.html (http://b-kites.blogspot.com/2006/01/birds-line.html).

If you have any other questions don't hesitate to react


Title: Re: Active Prism EO Kite Train Ideas
Post by: AntBTas on August 20, 2012, 02:20 AM
Thanks everyone, great advice and a great thread :)

Ant