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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Charles P on September 17, 2012, 11:02 PM



Title: Vented Opinions
Post by: Charles P on September 17, 2012, 11:02 PM
 I am looking to aquire my first vented kite. The only HW kite I have flown was a Nirvana that I flew for about 20 minutes. I really enjoyed that flight.
 I have decided to invest in a HW kite and I would really appreciate some feed back from the forum. I just found the Talon vented and it looks interesting, I've flown the Talon UL once and it tricked very well.
 I could really use some imput as to what to look for or look out for in a vented kite. Said kite must be very trickable in higher winds!!

 


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: fidelio on September 18, 2012, 04:02 AM
Vented kites are all about trade offs.

If you think about an old army parachute, if there were a bunch of holes designed into it, you'd get to the ground quicker being less exposed to enemy fire on the way down which is good. The problem is you may be travelling too fast not to break your legs when the ground shows up.

Of the vented kites I've flown what they gain in wind speed is in direct proportion to their freestyle abilities. Moderately vented kites like the talon trick fantastically, and offer quite an extended range above their standard counterparts, but there's definitely an upper windrange. 18mph or more is time to think of doing something else. Can you fly? Sure. Is it fun? Not so much.

Just go into the process of shopping for a vented kite knowing you'll be giving something up, for what you gain, and having more realistic expectations, will be happier with your choice in the end.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: RobB on September 18, 2012, 04:12 AM
It depends on what you consider high winds. 10-15mph is high wind for me, and I enjoy my vented kites from 8-15mph. Anything higher than 15mph, I'm stretching out the quad lines and flying a vented Rev if I have time. If I'm short on time and need a flying fix, I will fly my QPro VV, but there really isn't much tricking above 15mph.

As far as kites... the QPro VV will take anything you can throw at it. I've flown it in winds up to 30mph and still brought it back in one piece. The Fearless vented light is very trickable in winds 5-15mph. The other vents I have you can't get anymore. None of them get flown in winds over 20mph except the QP.

I've found that just like a low wind kite, a high wind kite is not so much about the tricking, more about the fact that you're still flying. If you get a trick in there once or twice, that's a bonus. Don't expect too much, and you won't be disappointed.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: DWayne on September 18, 2012, 04:18 AM
I've found that just like a low wind kite, a high wind kite is not so much about the tricking, more about the fact that you're still flying. If you get a trick in there once or twice, that's a bonus.

You have definitely been flying the wrong kites.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: thief on September 18, 2012, 04:43 AM
get a prism alien....trickable up above 20mph....non vented.....granted you might not be able to see the tricks cuz they are so fast.....


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: harveystubbs on September 18, 2012, 09:20 AM
Most vents in my experience fly very differently to their std versions.

The talon vent will easily take over 20 mph winds and I have flown mine in over 30mph and it's pretty good for a vent. The NSE HW is nice as well especially when you fly it with lots of weight on the tail (25gr plus). The akuji vent is one of the nicest vents too as it's a variable vent and goes down quite low.

If you have winds which are bumpy you also want a kite that doesn't die on you when the winds drop.

You might also want to get some wind brakes for you vent or std.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: RonG on September 18, 2012, 10:10 AM
Vented kites are all about trade offs.
That pretty much sums it up.

If you really want to keep flying at 20mph and above, you have to decide what your priorities are and approach a vented kite with that in mind. I don't care what kind of venting system is used, all vented kites are going to behave differently than their unvented counterparts.

There is no such thing as a free lunch in kite design.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Tmadz on September 18, 2012, 10:59 AM
Has anyone used the wind screens that Jon T sells? Does that interfere with the tricking in higher winds even though it slows down the kite?


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: zippy8 on September 18, 2012, 11:02 AM
I have decided to invest in a HW kite and I would really appreciate some feed back from the forum.
Just how high are the winds that you are prepared to be outside flying in ? I don't consider myself a fair weather flyer but if the winds are truly in the 25mph+ range that the vented kite that I've just bought is supposed to handle  ??? then I'm not sure if I would choose to be outside, let alone flying a kite. Of any sort. In any manner. No matter how well it might do.

But that's not really answering your question is it ?  :)

TBH when one my Standard kites, possibly with stuffed spars  but certainly having several air brakes draped over it, gets too much then I'm going to stop flying. You might want to try getting some air brakes as a first step.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Ca Ike on September 18, 2012, 12:10 PM
Some of the best vented kites I have flown are Lams fearless and seadevil but they aren't trick monsters above 20 either, though more trickable than most.  One thing you have to keep in mind is when a kite is not in flying position the vents aren't as effective and physical weight or drag becomes more important.  The TNT strong seems to do this concept well though I haven't flown one myself.  Wind screens/air brakes are a good place to start since they can take out some of the wind pressure.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: asburyparkjohn on September 18, 2012, 08:36 PM
L'Atelier xt.z with 150# test line. I will currently use 60' X 90# as I am primarily a low wind flyer and sold my 125# & 150# lines ... but will encounter this situation in NJ, USA in March after the winter as I am desperate and this is generally the wind strength at the beach. I made this statement ONCE and I will repeat it again ... Jim Byrne ... is there a better kite DESIGNED for 20 mph winds than this kite? ... with little work and tradeoffs in the CENTRAL WINDOW?

APJ


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Gardner on September 18, 2012, 09:20 PM
Don't rule out any of the Blue Moon variable vents, expecially the Black Diamond verious. Unfortunatly thesekites are no longer in production, but you might get lucky and find one in Swap Meet.  I believe VVs are the only way to go.  You get more control

Gardner


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: boomertype on September 18, 2012, 09:55 PM
Don't rule out any of the Blue Moon variable vents, expecially the Black Diamond verious. Unfortunatly thesekites are no longer in production, but you might get lucky and find one in Swap Meet.  I believe VVs are the only way to go.  You get more control

Gardner
There is a vented Mamba in the Swap currently. Great price.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Charles P on September 18, 2012, 11:19 PM
Thanks for all the feed back. I've got lots to think about now!! I mainly fly to do tricks so I probably wont be flying in winds much over 15-18mph. Unless I have a kite that can trick well at those wind speeds!   :-\
 I have tried some wind brakes with mixed results, I have a home made brake that attaches between the lines and the bridle, this one seems to work ok but sometimes I have control issues with it. I also have a set that honestly does not fit my kite very well but sometimes I will attach them to the front spreader and  and the stand offs, this configuration allows me to do some tricks but does not seem to slow the kite very much. If I take that same set of brakes and attach them to the front and rear spreaders it slows the kite a lot more but then I can't trick much at all for some reason.
 This is why I would like to get a vented kite, that and I dont like stressing the frames and sails of my standard.
 Thanks again for everyones advise, looks like I've got some more research to do but at least now I have some information to help me make my decision.
 Any more suggestions or advise is always appreciated.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: chilese on September 18, 2012, 11:38 PM
First, let me say I fly dual line kites about 99% of the time.

And I have many vented sport kites.

Sadly, the kite which flies most like its normal wind brother is the Revolution 1.5.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: JimB on September 19, 2012, 12:08 AM
No, I'm okay with that statement, well, 15-18mph anyway.

The xt.z is never going to be a very popular kite. It would cost a small fortune to get one these days, not to mention it's just too damn quirky for most people, but it will trick in the mid to high teens just fine.

L'Atelier xt.z with 150# test line. "snip" I made this statement ONCE and I will repeat it again ... Jim Byrne ... is there a better kite DESIGNED for 20 mph winds than this kite? ... with little work and tradeoffs in the CENTRAL WINDOW?

APJ


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: zippy8 on September 19, 2012, 01:44 AM
The xt.z is never going to be a very popular kite. It would cost a small fortune to get one these days
320 ($420), your choice of 3 colours, 5 to 7 weeks delivery.

L'Atelier is back, don't forget.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: DWayne on September 19, 2012, 02:33 AM
If you want to trick in high winds the TNT Strong would be my choice.
No vents, so no odd behavior when its on its back. Plenty of mass and the proper bridle for high winds. All the modern tricks are there @ 20 mph. I've even done pinwheels in 15 mph wind with mine.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Bob D on September 19, 2012, 04:11 AM
If you're tricking in strong wind, you're really going to be working it. The pull is much stronger with a standard or bigger kite and you'll definitely be doing more running to get slack in the lines. Venting and wind brakes might help but they stop being a lot of help as the wind picks up. (I like partial vents on my Nirvana when it just gets to breezier but not much more than 12.)

Interesting options are smaller and faster kites like the Minigem. Inputs are fast and you have to have fast reaction times but they are a kick to fly as the wind picks up.

I prefer gentler wind to trick in and the arthritis in my neck starts complaining if I'm working it too hard. I like to take out the quads in higher wind.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: tpatter on September 19, 2012, 09:37 AM
Do yourself a favor and check out Lams Transformer vent.

My opinion:

Most designers do not have a clue about how to make a vent.  They seem to simply insert large amounts of screen in the main parts of the sail and call it a day.  The result is that the kite flys like a brick - no fun in nearly any capacity.

If you cut 1/2 of the bottom out of a bucket, water will surely pass right through it, but it will be as though the bucket is no longer a bucket.  If you put 4 smaller holes, then you can still steadily pour more water into the top without over-flowing, but it retains its 'bucketness'.

This is not an uninformed opinion.  I've owned (notice past tense) Nirvana HW, QPro VV, Mantis VV, Alien, SF 2.5 Vent.   The QPro VV was my favorite until I went to Lams kites, but truth be told, I almost never flew it unless I had to.   By contrast, I'll happily pull my trans vent out in 5 mph and enjoy every minute at the rate of probably 20 tricks per minute.

I fly mine into the 20s and usually pack it up around 23/25 since its just too uncomfortable to be out there.  I've been flying the kite for 2 years now and have never yet broken a LE on it and it has lots of miles on it.   He also frames them heavier if you are more comfortable with that, most of my airtime is from 5/6 to 15/20 with it,so I like the feel of a lighter frame.

Good luck with your choice,
Tom


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Krijn on September 19, 2012, 01:33 PM
I'll happily pull my trans vent out in 5 mph and enjoy every minute at the rate of probably 20 tricks per minute.

Tom


movie!


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: asburyparkjohn on September 19, 2012, 04:36 PM
TPATTER - like you I am a 100% KOOL AID flyer  :D ... but honestly a LAM Vented kite does not replace the XT.Z ... its somewhat of an equal ... IN MY OPINION. Lams kites absorb the wind ... which is good <15 mph, the XT.Z ... I don't know ... it just is not bothered by it ... with its Turbo rod construction and frame. Its the only kite other than a Benson Inner Space that I have not turned over for a Fearless/Transformer design ... its my HIGH WIND KITE.

APJ


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: tpatter on September 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
I'll take your word for it - we all have our favorites!  :)  I love being able to fly one kite as both std and vent that flys just like my other Trans kites. 

The Rev suggestion is also a good one if you enjoy flying them - I just haven't been bitten by that bug despite trying real hard to get into flying them.  Those guys can fly an uber vented rev in 35 mph of wind while smoking a cigarette on crutches!  :)


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: JimB on September 19, 2012, 11:59 PM
Oh I knew you could get one new, but still.. not a cheap kite this side of the pond. Plus shipping from France.


The xt.z is never going to be a very popular kite. It would cost a small fortune to get one these days
320 ($420), your choice of 3 colours, 5 to 7 weeks delivery.

L'Atelier is back, don't forget.

Mike.


Title: Re: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: tcope on September 20, 2012, 11:01 AM
One of my favorite vent kites is a Level One vented. I I'm sorry, I don't recall what it's called but the reason I like it is because the vents are a ton of small holes all over. This does not take away how each panel acts as there is still a lot of fabric left. Well, I it removes just a little but not a lot. I also like small vents spread out on the kite.

Sent from my Samsung S3


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: JimB on September 20, 2012, 05:03 PM
I think the reason you don't remember the name is that it was known as the Level One Level One. Seriously. :)


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: bt on September 20, 2012, 11:29 PM
First, let me say I fly dual line kites about 99% of the time.

And I have many vented sport kites.

Sadly, the kite which flies most like its normal wind brother is the Revolution 1.5.


How correct you are...plus all the framing options of revs...yee haw!!!!
Happily (and fortunately) for me, I do have 3 of the same dualies (sul, ul, and vented) that fly pretty well the same....good ol' Pro Dancers....
But they probably don't have the trickability the OP wants.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/577077480ByHCgR (http://good-times.webshots.com/album/577077480ByHCgR)

bt


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: boomertype on September 21, 2012, 05:35 AM
When the wind comes up I prefer a Vented Rev. Three stages of venting and all the control you want. Reverse is sometimes more blessed thing than others.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Charles P on September 22, 2012, 07:28 PM
 I just wanted to let you all know that I have ordered a vented deep space from Tim Benson. If my addiction compels me to buy another vented kite I think I might consider the TNT or Lam.... or dare I say a REV?!

   Thanks again for all your input. I am so glad a friend of mine told me about this forum, so much to learn!


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: zippy8 on September 22, 2012, 08:16 PM
I have ordered a vented deep space from Tim Benson.
Eh ? :o

Quote
If my addiction compels me to buy another vented kite I think I might consider the TNT or Lam.... or dare I say a REV?!
Please don't. There's a whole other section for those weirdoes but I think they gnaw through the fence.

2 lines good, 4 lines... better not.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Charles P on September 23, 2012, 05:20 AM
I have ordered a vented deep space from Tim Benson.
Eh ? :o

Quote
Please don't. There's a whole other section for those weirdoes but I think they gnaw through the fence.

2 lines good, 4 lines... better not.

Mike.

Lol!!! Too Funny!! I'm just trying to be diplomatic Mike. I have more than enough on my hand with dual lines right now and am facinated with sport kites. I think I will have to feel that I have mastered sport kite flying before I moved on to something else but one never knows!
 


Title: Re: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: DD on September 23, 2012, 07:29 AM
Didn't know Tim made a vent. I'd bee curious to know how it flies.


Title: Re: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Charles P on September 23, 2012, 09:14 AM
Didn't know Tim made a vent. I'd bee curious to know how it flies.


 I'll try to remember to post something after I fly it but I pobably won't have the kite in my hands for 3-5 weeks. He shared pictures of it with me and it looks like it is done very well. It has 18 small vent holes in the sail insted of two or so large ones.
 Can't wait!!


Title: Re: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: zippy8 on September 23, 2012, 09:44 AM
It has 18 small vent holes in the sail insted of two or so large ones.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8318/8014598354_451d01fdc3_z.jpg)

And a video (http://youtu.be/ecP-CcEJg9o?hd=1) too. I had no idea it existed !

Mike.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Wayner on September 23, 2012, 10:44 AM

Wow. What a suprise.  Looking forward to hearning how it flys.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: DD on September 23, 2012, 10:56 AM
wow, i wonder how its framed. I have flown mine in bigger winds with wind brakes


Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: madhabitz on September 23, 2012, 11:53 AM
It has 18 small vent holes in the sail insted of two or so large ones.



And a video ([url]http://youtu.be/ecP-CcEJg9o?hd=1[/url]) too. I had no idea it existed !

Mike.

Gads, I didn't either! Might be just the thing for our bumpy gusty winds.


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: JimB on September 23, 2012, 02:11 PM
Totally surprised by this..


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: Wayner on September 23, 2012, 03:57 PM
Based on everyone suprise (including mine) is this like finding out bigfoot exist?   ???


Title: Re: Vented Opinions
Post by: jaydub on September 24, 2012, 04:25 PM
Bit more info on the Benson Kites FB page:

Full credit to Adrian Atherton for developing this and making it happen.
It has been tried and tested for over a year, and finally earned a place in the Benson Range.
Boring stuff now.....The vent holes are hot cut and reinforced with clear Mylar on the back of the kite.
Wind range is 8-25mph, ideal range between 12-20mph.
The frame is toughened up with P300 in the leading edges and spine, the tail weight is 18gms.

I flew the P200 version last year and really liked it.  I'm sure the change to P300 has only benefited it.