GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Stuart99 on September 18, 2012, 06:47 PM



Title: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: Stuart99 on September 18, 2012, 06:47 PM
I have seen Western Filament Spectra in bulk quantities on several websites for a good price. Has anyone tried this stuff? I know its not going to match up to Shanti or Laser Pro, but I would like to have a couple of spare linesets for special uses. I'm mostly concerned about braid slickness.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: MtnFlyer on September 18, 2012, 07:43 PM
It's been a while so my memory may be a bit off, but I think Laser Pro is made by Western Filament. I don't recall ever seeing it on their website, but look at the Spectra braided fishing line as a similar product. The kite line is a mere niche market.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: JimB on September 18, 2012, 07:57 PM
Laser Pro is made by Shimano at this point.

Before Shimano bought them out it was made by Innovative Textiles (?).

Western Filament is its own entity. It's decent line. Not sure if they make Spectra 2000. Probably. They do make Spectra 1000.

This is one of the brands carried by Into The Wind.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: JimB on September 18, 2012, 08:18 PM
Well, decided to go have a look around.

Western is still making kite line. No specifics on their site that I can find.

Into The Wind seems to be all Shanti these days.

Goodwinds is carrying Western Filament Spectra. Can't get any specifics on what type of Spectra (1000/2000) beyond that.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: MtnFlyer on September 18, 2012, 10:00 PM
Something about Western Filament and Innovative Textiles...  They both are located within a few blocks of each other in Grand Junction, CO, both make "premium [braided] kite line", use Spectra fiber...

I wonder if Innovative Textiles is a sub of WFI, which at a glance seems to have been around longer? Or perhaps someone from WFI left and formed Innotex? Or perhaps it's coincidence..  ::)


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: JimB on September 18, 2012, 11:41 PM
Innovative Textiles was acquired by Shimano, yes that Shimano, in 2008.

Western Filament is a private company servicing the automotive and aerospace industries.

They also make kite line.

Now, it is entirely possible that the guy who founded Innovative in 1992 learned his stuff working for Western, but Western Filament is a much older company founded in 1938.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: JimB on September 18, 2012, 11:51 PM
Then there is Ashaway in R.I.

I'm not sure if they deal in Spectra.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: thief on September 19, 2012, 04:13 AM
pretty certain that Ashaway only deals with dacron and nylon....more of a sailing line house


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: Stuart99 on September 19, 2012, 09:54 AM
Thanks for the responses so far. Does anyone have experience with it?

I have also seen some good prices on bulk Infinity spectra line. I believe its being packaged by New Tech Kites. Anyone know anything about this stuff?

Thanks guy...I guess I may have to be a guinea pig, hehe.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: Gamelord on September 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
AFIK, Conrad was the one who learned how to make spectra kite line from Daniel at Shanti.  After gaining his knowledge of spectra braiding and what makes kite line what it is, Conrad then went to work for Innovative Textiles and was the main influence for Innovative to create Laser Pro line.  To my knowledge, he has never worked for Western Filament.

Spectra is Spectra.  It is all the same.  Spectra fibers are purchased from Honneywell corp., they are the patent holders and the original creators.  It is how those fibers are braided together that makes kite line, kite line and fishing line, fishing line.  Each have their own unique braid which could be a tighter braid, looser braid, linear braid, round braid, square braid etc...  The way those fibers are braided together will ultimately effect how the line performs.  Mix-matching braids is what causes certain lines to "lock up" or "bind together" when twisted around each other.  For fishing line this is not a concern, for kite flying is is a major concern...and the main concern.  The minor difference in braiding techniques is the reason that Shanti line and LPG line tend to bind when flown in teams.  It also changes how the feedback of the lines feel in the pilots hands and also effects the overall stretch and/or creep of the lines themselves.

I have heard that it takes over an hour to braid up 10 ft. of 90# Spectra kite flying line.  But it only takes 30 minutes to braid up 1000' of 100# Spectra fishing line. (numbers from memory and probably off a bit)

Saying spectra fishing lines are the same as LPG or Shanti because they both use the same Spectra is like saying wheel barrow tires are the same as steel belted Z-rated automobile tires because they both use rubber.



Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: Tmadz on September 19, 2012, 01:11 PM
Kent, coming from a financial analysts point of view from manufacturing, I know your examples of braiding speed couldn't be correct from a cost perspective, but that's not important. My real reason for posting is your larger point (and my agreement) that the mfg process is the issue. The two products are similar, but completely different. I never ceased to be amazed by the mechanical engineers when they explained how minor differences in processing affected the final product characteristics. I had to investigate these issues all the time when reviewing capital expenditures and performing the cost-benefit analysis on whether or not the projects were worth the money.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: MtnFlyer on September 19, 2012, 02:08 PM
...Saying spectra fishing lines are the same as LPG or Shanti because they both use the same Spectra is like saying wheel barrow tires are the same as steel belted Z-rated automobile tires because they both use rubber.

I don't think anyone is saying, or even implying, that spectra fishing lines are the same as LPG or Shanti.

But now that you mention it, Kent, wheel barrow tires are kinda like steel belted Z-rated automobile tires -- they're both round, inflated, roll and help hold an axle off the ground.  ;)


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: KiteVoice on September 19, 2012, 02:57 PM
Spectra is Spectra.  It is all the same.  Spectra fibers are purchased from Honneywell corp., they are the patent holders and the original creators.  It is how those fibers are braided together that makes kite line, kite line and fishing line, fishing line.  Each have their own unique braid which could be a tighter braid, looser braid, linear braid, round braid, square braid etc...  The way those fibers are braided together will ultimately effect how the line performs.  Mix-matching braids is what causes certain lines to "lock up" or "bind together" when twisted around each other.  For fishing line this is not a concern, for kite flying is is a major concern...and the main concern.  The minor difference in braiding techniques is the reason that Shanti line and LPG line tend to bind when flown in teams.  It also changes how the feedback of the lines feel in the pilots hands and also effects the overall stretch and/or creep of the lines themselves.
Very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: Gamelord on September 20, 2012, 11:47 AM
Too funny!  :D :D  You would have the fastest "rated" wheelbarrow on the planet!  Better eat your wheeties before breaking that wheel barrow land speed record though.

As I commented in my post, the time to make spectra kite line may not be quite correct, I will have to get the actual numbers from Daniel next time I talk to him.  I do recall that it was amazingly intensive and long to make kite line compared to the others types of line though.


Title: Re: Western Filament Spectra
Post by: tcope on September 20, 2012, 02:24 PM
Not trying to change the topic but does anyone know if Bonnie (Hang-Em High) will be opening anytime soon or if the bulk Spectra she was selling might be availale some place else? It's the "cheap" stuff... not the "good stuff" that Steve sells.