GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: red sweater on September 22, 2012, 05:39 PM



Title: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: red sweater on September 22, 2012, 05:39 PM
I took out my ITW Mesa DC (the smallest of their three sizes) and my new Gomberg Piranha drogue (in somewhat stiff winds). The combination was terrible.

I attached the drogue several feet back from the DC, via the two inner tow points. (Maybe not this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahirude/2858615761/#) far back, but well over half that distance. That's the largest ITW DC, BTW. EIEIO.) The drogue liked to destabilize the kite and send it diving to the ground.

I got the drogue because putting two (I never tried four, as I don't own a second matching pair) tube tails on the kite was not enough drag to prevent the kite from overflying. The wind conditions would have to be just right to be able to use my line popper. I was hoping the drogue would help, but not only did it destabilize the kite, it also made the line too low to make the line popper return after popping.

So, what do I do to get the DC both flying stable and at the right angle? Adjust the bridle? (Which direction? I don't have a clue.) Some other way of adding drag?


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: Wayner on September 22, 2012, 06:30 PM
I found the Piranha drogue destabilize ANY kite it is attached to.  :-[

You want to adjust the bridle.  :)

Move it up to reduce drag when the winds are light
move it down to increase drag. stop overflying and increase pull

You want a prusik knot at the bridle attachment point for easy adjustment.
http://www.nic.fi/~sos/knots.htm (http://www.nic.fi/~sos/knots.htm)

Let me know if your kite does not the prusik knot, it is a easy change


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: tcope on September 22, 2012, 08:01 PM
I've never really had a problem with over flying even with 1 tube tail. Are you pushing the leading edge spars back toward the rear of the kite before flying?

You can also experiment with different angles by tying loop knots (something easy to untie) in the bridle.


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: red sweater on September 23, 2012, 04:54 AM
I've never really had a problem with over flying even with 1 tube tail. Are you pushing the leading edge spars back toward the rear of the kite before flying?


Yes. Maybe it's not strictly overflying. Is there a glossary somewhere so I can double-check my term? What I really mean is flying practically straight overhead. It's nice and stable up there, not crashing, but too straight up for my purposes.

I found the Piranha drogue destabilize ANY kite it is attached to.  :-[

You want to adjust the bridle.  :)

Move it up to reduce drag when the winds are light
move it down to increase drag. stop overflying and increase pull

You want a prusik knot at the bridle attachment point for easy adjustment.
[url]http://www.nic.fi/~sos/knots.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.nic.fi/~sos/knots.htm[/url])

Let me know if your kite does not the prusik knot, it is a easy change



That's sad about the drogue. I really like how it looks. Does it work better as line laundry than as a tail?

Thanks for the tips on the bridle, I wasn't sure which way to move it.

My kite does not have (Is that the missing word here?) a prusik knot, but I know it. So, I should take out the overhand knot in the bridle, and use a separate length of bridle line to attach a pigtail with a prusik knot?


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: tcope on September 23, 2012, 07:15 AM
If you are wanting to change the angle of the kite in different wind conditions, I'd recommend a fuzzy tail (or a few of them). They create a _ton_ of drag. You can get a few short ones and connect them to each other as needed for the different wind conditions. Try connecting them together or try more than one on different connections on the kite... so what works best. They are very inexpensive as well. If you have access to a sewing machine, you can easily make them with almost any type of fabric. You sew a line down the middle of a solid piece of fabric and once done, go back and cut a lot of slits in the fabric.

Or:

http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=136 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=136)

Be warned... if you make your own tails who knows what is going to follow. You may than be hooked and making a lot of your own stuff.


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: Wayner on September 23, 2012, 08:49 AM
That's sad about the drogue. I really like how it looks. Does it work better as line laundry than as a tail?

Yes.


My kite does not have (Is that the missing word here?) a prusik knot, but I know it. So, I should take out the overhand knot in the bridle, and use a separate length of bridle line to attach a pigtail with a prusik knot?

 ;D  Once you use the Prusick knot. you will always remove the overhand knot that most commerical kites come with.

Happy flying


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: dadecitykiter on September 25, 2012, 12:09 PM
Put the drogue on the line instead of the kite.
It will pull the kite down but not effect the stability of the kite, basically putting a kink in the line.

                                 kite
                                  /
                                 /
                                /
                               -laundry
                         ___/
                   ___/
             ___/
       ___/
 ___/
/


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: red sweater on September 25, 2012, 12:29 PM
Put the drogue on the line instead of the kite.
It will pull the kite down but not effect the stability of the kite, basically putting a kink in the line.

I like how your avatar highlights the visual. ;)

And thanks, I'll try that next time.


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: thief on September 25, 2012, 03:58 PM
That piranha drogue was originally designed as tail pieces for Peter Lynn kites...big ones.....
It is way too much for a smaller kite but does work very well if the kite is 75 feet long......

I just toss it onto my line along with a couple of my Martin Lester shark drogues....and some other friends......
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mGlJmbz7c90/RtTJBA8Dh3I/AAAAAAAACgQ/ZsGkRdwI_yU/s448/ocean%2520line%2520by%2520bartos%2520again.jpg)

Here is a better pic of the sharks....and who they were designed to go with...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tkRIF_gyz2w/RtTJPQ8Dh8I/AAAAAAAACg4/eSakfu2dLN8/s640/scuba%2520diver%2520under%2520and%2520side.jpg)


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: Steve on September 25, 2012, 05:28 PM
Quote
originally designed as tail pieces for Peter Lynn kites...big ones

Like this Rob?

(http://www.gwtwforum.com/netimages/4515_80489044043_3115723_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: Tmadz on September 25, 2012, 05:30 PM
Whoa. That's a BIG piranha Steve. Ate all of the others.


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: thief on September 25, 2012, 06:01 PM
Well I was meaning that the 3' drogues were for the maxi Peter Lynn pieces.....but that works too...


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: red sweater on September 25, 2012, 06:23 PM
Well I was meaning that the 3' drogues were for the maxi Peter Lynn pieces.....but that works too...

Mine is a 2', but point taken.


Title: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: Wayner on September 25, 2012, 07:28 PM
Quote
originally designed as tail pieces for Peter Lynn kites...big ones

Like this Rob?

([url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/netimages/4515_80489044043_3115723_n.jpg[/url])


I have a small drogue for my 25' Gecko. 

Love to own the Peter Lynn Maxi this belongs to.  ;D


Title: Re: Re: Getting the right amount of drag
Post by: madhabitz on September 25, 2012, 09:25 PM
Gads that's huge!