GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: messyboy on October 12, 2012, 05:57 AM



Title: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 12, 2012, 05:57 AM
Hi guys,

I'm new here, finally decided to join this forum after reading through a lot of informative threads in this forum looking for UL stunts for inland flying (around 0-5mph).
Currently l'm looking for highly trickable kite in low wind condition. At my location, there are these kites available to choose from:

Flying Wings Airwave UL
Flying Wings Airwave Zero
Silver Fox 2.3 Pro UL
Silver Fox 2.5 UL
HQ Shadow
SkyBurner Ocius
Prism Zephyr
SkyBurner WidowMaker

I'm looking at price range up till SilverFox. From what I see, Shadow, Ocius, Zephyr and WM are highly regarded, but they are quite off my budget for now :(.
Thus, I will like to know more about the performance of the Airwave UL or Airwave Zero (low wind performance and trickability) from anyone that had some experience with it before.

Thanks!

JJ


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: thief on October 12, 2012, 06:16 AM
welcome JJ...
Where are you located?   you might find someone nearby that has one or more of these (and others).....
Definitely take a bit of time to peruse through the Swap meet.....you can find some Amazing deals in there......

Cheers
r


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Nolan_k on October 12, 2012, 06:49 AM
I think Thief is referring to the swap meet here on the forums.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: RobB on October 12, 2012, 06:52 AM
The only kite in your list that's not in the same price range is the Widow Maker. From what I understand, the Silver Fox UL isn't really for LOW winds, and you will probably end up disappointed. The Shadow can be flown in next to no wind, I enjoy mine. The Ocius is another good choice...


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Hadge on October 12, 2012, 08:32 AM
+1 for the Shadow, it will fly from around 1.5 mph and is pretty tricky. The Silver Foxes and Zephyr aren't that ultralight and need a bit more wind to keep them flying well.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PUZZLE on October 12, 2012, 08:46 AM
My ocius sul and widowmaker ul see a lot of airtime . I live inland as well


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 12, 2012, 09:01 AM
The Airwave UL looks to be very good:
Flying Wings - 2009 Airwave UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RNLfeyCt3I#)
And the Zero is pretty cool too...
Flying Wings -2009 airWave zero for indoor tricks kite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alnl7SJ2_DE#)
airWave Zero - Flying Wings Kites (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGs81GHYlag#)
Flying Wings - 2009 airWave Zero Bell's show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duk9jEcpLU0#)

I would go first for the UL and later for the Zero :-)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 12, 2012, 09:59 AM
From what I see, seems like the foxes and zephyr are not suited for my wind range...
So between ocius and shadow, which is better? Or should I say, what are the strengths and weaknsses of the two kites?
Paw, I saw the clips too, thus I thought that they were quite decent. However, there was some feedback from a review saying that they aren't precise in movement. Will it affect my trick learning process?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 12, 2012, 10:13 AM
Will it affect my trick learning process?

What is your current skill level? How long have you been flying?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 12, 2012, 10:18 AM
Will it affect my trick learning process?

What is your current skill level? How long have you been flying?

Tell us !


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 12, 2012, 10:33 AM

Flying Wings Airwave UL
Flying Wings Airwave Zero
Silver Fox 2.3 Pro UL
Silver Fox 2.5 UL
HQ Shadow
SkyBurner Ocius
Prism Zephyr
SkyBurner WidowMaker

I own most of the kites on your list and flown the rest.

The Airwave zero is a very able trick kite. I can fly mine a little lowerer than my Shadow. It is not a true no wind SUL (I perfer the AMAZING) but a good and cheap entry to get you started. The kite feels smaller that its size but control is not a problem. The kite is stable and holds the fade really well in my local choppy winds. I highly recommend the kite if you are looking for value.

Like the Shadow a lot. Can't go wrong here.
 
I do not have the skills to access the OCIUS as it is an advance freestyle kite. Not the best kite to learn tricks on, but a great one to show off the skills you have.   ;D

It is a smaller, fast moving kite that flows out of one trick and allowing you to flow into another. The kite never stops moving and for me I see this as lack of control, but it is great for combo tricks. The OCIUS is the opposite of the WM which tricks slow and graceful. Both are by the same designer but VERY different in flying style.

Don't know if you have access to the Freestylist UL. It is a capable kite wonderful to learn on has more control that the the Shadow, Airware and OCIUS. It is built as a leaning trick kite and around $200.

Hope this helps


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
I'm looking at price range up till SilverFox. From what I see, Shadow, Ocius, Zephyr and WM are highly regarded, but they are quite off my budget for now :(.
Thus, I will like to know more about the performance of the Airwave UL or Airwave Zero (low wind performance and trickability) from anyone that had some experience with it before.
;)

I think the Airwave UL would still be a good choice...it is not tooooo light, and is pretty fast in Tricks and floats good too...and it is a bit bigger, more agile and more easy to trick then the Zero !


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 12, 2012, 04:49 PM
Skillwise, I'm can do basic maneuvers (8s, sq, launch... etc) on my entree kite premier osprey with much confident. However, due to wind conditions, it hovers down to the ground when the wind dies off, not to say doing any basic tricks.
Thus the need for a low wind kite, not only allows me to learn tricks, but also not outgrown quickly..


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 13, 2012, 10:15 AM
Then get the Airwave UL...do not forget the low wind lines in good quallity _20kg/25m should be fine :-)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Desertflier on October 13, 2012, 04:54 PM
After some bridle adjustments I prefer my Shadow way more than the AirWave UL I used to have. (Sold it).  ;)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Ken101 on October 13, 2012, 07:37 PM
Shadow is a great kite however if you fly at night at a park it can get lost in the night sky quickly.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 13, 2012, 07:58 PM
Shadow is a great kite however if you fly at night at a park it can get lost in the night sky quickly.


You are right. Many of our Friday Night Flys have Shadows and it is a challange, but not impossible to fly at night.  ;)

Kite looks great during during the day. I get more compliemnts on the Shadow than any other kite.  ;D


After some bridle adjustments I prefer my Shadow way more than the AirWave UL I used to have. (Sold it).  ;)

+1 on the bridle adjustment to the Shadow.

I must have like my Airwave better because I still have mine. But it is a very differnent kite than the Shadow


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 13, 2012, 09:29 PM
Erm.. a newb question. Y will other kites be possible to fly at night? Do you mean in contrast with night lightings , other kites are more visible than the shadow?
Also, what kind if bridle adjustments do you guys make to the shadow?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: ae on October 13, 2012, 10:02 PM
Erm.. a newb question. Y will other kites be possible to fly at night? Do you mean in contrast with night lightings , other kites are more visible than the shadow?
Also, what kind if bridle adjustments do you guys make to the shadow?

The shadow is fitting to its name, black.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: chilese on October 13, 2012, 10:20 PM
The Shadow is not black.

https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/KiteParty92011#5584462648132878370


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: RobB on October 14, 2012, 07:02 AM
Any dark color kite is difficult to trick in low light conditions. It is very hard to tell which way the kite is pointing when the light is low and the kite is against a backround of dark objects, like a tree line. I like the way my dark kites look ( like the Shadow ) but can only fly them in the summer when the light levels are high. It's even worse when you're flying under artificial light.
My favorite SUL is all black, and very difficult to see in all but the best sunny conditions. I still try to fly it, but lose track of it frequently...


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 18, 2012, 01:22 PM
If you change the bridle, like written, this one is really good in the low price segment !
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8592.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8592.0)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Gamelord on October 19, 2012, 11:54 AM
The Ocius SUL is awesome.  Very tricky, much more than the Shadow (IMO) and has a better wind range.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: tpatter on October 19, 2012, 12:16 PM
I felt that the Ocius SUL had a lower range than the Shadow, but not on the upper end.  The Ocius (particularly the SUL) takes a bit too long to settle into a turtle for me.  Other than that, I really liked it.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 20, 2012, 04:02 AM
Thanks for all the inputs guys!

Can someone tell the difference in kite features that cause one to be much trickier than the other?

After reading, now I've narrowed down to the following kites:
Airwave UL
Shadow
Ocius SUL
Widowmaker UL

So in the case of these kites, how would you rank their trick/control performance in the lower wind range? (If anyone had tried all of them before in 0-5mph)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Gamelord on October 20, 2012, 02:27 PM
My personal choice in those wind ranges would be the Ocius SUL over all the others, and I love my WidowMaker UL - but in 0 - 5, the Ocius comes out of the bag every time.  Now in winds 2-7 the WidowMaker UL is the choice.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 21, 2012, 11:10 AM
I reread all your posts and saw you are newer flyer wanting to learn tricks so I made my comments based on your experience.

You should only get a UL not an SUL (Ocius). SULs fly in lower wind but are HARD to fly and HARDER to trick. You will learn tricks better with a UL even if you fly less than a SUL.

Can someone tell the difference in kite features that cause one to be much trickier than the other?

These kites are a BIG improvement to the premier osprey you now fly. You will be learning tricks on them for years.  ;D
The Ocius is the only kite I would not recommend for your skill level. It is an ADVANCED trick kite designed for combination tricks. Not designed to teach beginners individual tricks. 2 years from now, you will love this kite.  :)


Thanks for all the inputs guys!

Can someone tell the difference in kite features that cause one to be much trickier than the other?

After reading, now I've narrowed down to the following kites:
Airwave UL
Shadow
Ocius SUL
Widowmaker UL

So in the case of these kites, how would you rank their trick/control performance in the lower wind range? (If anyone had tried all of them before in 0-5mph)

Airwave UL - good budget starter trick kite. Will be the first one you out grow
Shadow - Ok as a beginners kite, but a great kite as you get better.
Ocius SUL - not a control kite. pure freeform & it tricks fast. Buy this in a couple of years.
Widowmaker UL - great if you can afford it. a full sail with lots of control and does tricks slow and graceful. this helps in learning.

Hope that helps.
I have all the kites on you list except for the Ocius, but Gamelord lets me fly his  ;D
Gamelord is a much better pilot than me. I need another year of skill to fly the Ocius well.  :'(


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 21, 2012, 03:32 PM
I initially targeted for a sul because of the wind conditions I'm facing but suls are much harder to trick on... But with uls, I may have even lesser chance to be in the air.... That's my other concern.
 
Wayner, since what the manufacturer stated may not be the actual trickable range, so what min wind do you think the airwave, wm ul and shadow can teach me tricks in in actual?

Another newb question: wm ul is almost three times the price of airwave, is it 3x easier to learn tricks on?   :P


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 21, 2012, 04:17 PM

Another newb question: wm ul is almost three times the price of airwave, is it 3x easier to learn tricks on?   :P

No... maybe twice as much  :D

The WM UL is a kite that will do everything a little better that the airwave. Including teaching you how to fly in lower winds. Plus it is a kite you will most likely not out grow.

It is also not a waste of money unless you stop flying. This was the 4th UL I bought. For me I bought the airwave and shadow first. But now I fly the Shadow and WM much more than the Airware. But the Airwave still does all the tricks that I can do.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: tpatter on October 21, 2012, 04:33 PM
The only kite I know that will make it 3x easier will cost you 5x the price. 

I'd go for a full size outdoor kite.   The issue with the 0 to 1.5/2 range is that you are talking indoor wind speeds there, so a kite that will fly very well in that when being flown by an inexperienced flyer, is likely not going to be very easy to trick in 2 to 5 or probably at all.

If you want to fly in less than 1, I'd get an indoor and learn how to do that well.  It's fun, but is completely different from true outdoor flying and tricking. 

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

WM UL is good.  Also the silver fox line uls are sweet trickers, but need 3 realistically in my experience.

Tom


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 21, 2012, 04:39 PM
If you want to fly in less than 1, I'd get an indoor and learn how to do that well.  It's fun, but is completely different from true outdoor flying and tricking. 

+1

This really is a different type of flying., where you learn a new set of skills.

I initially targeted for a sul because of the wind conditions I'm facing but suls are much harder to trick on... But with uls, I may have even lesser chance to be in the air.... That's my other concern.


Still think you will learn tricks faster on a UL than a SUL. For me 1 day on a UL is better than 3 days with a SUL.

There is a limit to what tricks a SUL can do because they have so little mass. Plus they trick different than UL and Standards, so one you learn a trick normaly then you have to relearn how to do it on a SUL   ???  Plus some tricks can't be done on a SUL  :-[

Flying in Light winds is a skill. With practice you will be able to fly in very light winds with the right UL. This is MUCH MUCH lighter winds than your current kite, so you may be flying you UL  much more than you think.  ;)

Most flyers in our local group pull out gliders rather than SUL when the wind drops. They find it is more fun and less frustraion.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 21, 2012, 09:33 PM


No... maybe twice as much  :D


Due to shipment and such, the cost ends up almost 2.5times the cost of a wm ul. (Exaggerated a little on the 3times). Which brings into picture another two popular kites, the talon ul and deepspace ul... These three are in the same range in terms of price on my point of view, reputable low flyers, and that I will not outgrow that quickly.

In terms of forgiveness level and ease of learning, my gut feeling is telling me it is better to go with wm ul,  as the other 2 are out of new learners' comfort range. Is that feeling right?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 21, 2012, 09:36 PM

Most flyers in our local group pull out gliders rather than SUL when the wind drops. They find it is more fun and less frustraion.


Gliders as in one line kites?  :o


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 21, 2012, 09:53 PM

Most flyers in our local group pull out gliders rather than SUL when the wind drops. They find it is more fun and less frustraion.


Gliders as in one line kites?  :o

Yes.

On SUL days, our group may have 5 kites up in the air.

Not my cup of tea but I see the appeal.

After seting up your new kite your proficient in 5 minutes and having a great time flying.  8)
You often see people in group stalking while someone is flying so it encourges a lot of conversation.  ;D

Sure beats my plan of buying lots of SULs then spending more than a a year learning to fly and trick with them.  >:(




Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 21, 2012, 10:28 PM


No... maybe twice as much  :D


Due to shipment and such, the cost ends up almost 2.5times the cost of a wm ul. (Exaggerated a little on the 3times). Which brings into picture another two popular kites, the talon ul and deepspace ul... These three are in the same range in terms of price on my point of view, reputable low flyers, and that I will not outgrow that quickly.

In terms of forgiveness level and ease of learning, my gut feeling is telling me it is better to go with wm ul,  as the other 2 are out of new learners' comfort range. Is that feeling right?

For low wind ability. I don't know about the deepspace UL. I have a standard. I'm sure someone else can chime in.  ;)
The Talon UL has a smaller sail and does not fly as low at the WM UL  :-[.

As for either ones suitability as a first stunt kite I'm sure you will get a range of oppions here. :D

For me the WM UL is the safest best IMO. But this is a personal choice as it really is what works best for your flying style. (a little hard to determine since you are just starting.)

The Talon UL is my favorite kite, as it matches my person style. However, I'm not sure how much I would have like it when I first started. Back then I liked full size kites (well I still do)

The Deepspace is not a precision kite but a smooth flyer. It's trickabily is not a good match for my skills. It likes to roll out of one trick and into another, sadly I still do most of my tricks one at a time.  :-[.  But my favorite kite for the TAZ  8)

One other option would be the freestylist UL. It is a good budget kite in the $200 range that fly as low as the WM UL.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 23, 2012, 07:05 AM
Thanks for all the in depth opinion and answers to my questions!

Man... If only I can get my hands on some kites before getting one. It's really hard to choose plainly by words and videos... :(

But I think my best bet is to go for AirWave UL if I'm going budget, or let myself save up first, then go ahead with an advanced kite straight- to WidowMaker (std/UL).


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Desertflier on October 23, 2012, 08:50 AM
Save up and go with the Widow Maker UL. You will be happy you did.
Maybe one will pop up in the swap meet in the mean time.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 23, 2012, 02:48 PM
Man... If only I can get my hands on some kites before getting one. It's really hard to choose plainly by words and videos... :(


Try before you buy makes the decision easy. Sorry to hear you can't find fellow flyers :(


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: jecko on October 23, 2012, 05:00 PM
+1 on Widowmaker UL.


Hi JJ,
Where do you usually fly.?
If you look around in our tiny island, there are some trick flyers. If the winds blowing from south do drop by East Coast Park (carpark D1) there are guys flying there almost everyday. I'm sure they 'll be glad to help you.
If the winds are from North, we'll probably flying in the fields around Punggol.

BTW, save up for both Widowmaker STD and UL . I'm sure you learn faster as you could fly all year round with those two.  ;)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 23, 2012, 11:19 PM
+1 on Widowmaker UL.


Hi JJ,
Where do you usually fly.?
If you look around in our tiny island, there are some trick flyers. If the winds blowing from south do drop by East Coast Park (carpark D1) there are guys flying there almost everyday. I'm sure they 'll be glad to help you.
If the winds are from North, we'll probably flying in the fields around Punggol.

BTW, save up for both Widowmaker STD and UL . I'm sure you learn faster as you could fly all year round with those two.  ;)

Oh yea. Not only the ability to test fly some kites, but maybe some free lessons ;D

Once you fly a high end kite, you can see the value in paying more. Plus the air is free so its much cheaper than other sports.  8)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 24, 2012, 05:40 AM
Where do you usually fly.?
In the eastern area, inland, with minimal, bumpy and everchanging wind.

If you look around in our tiny island, there are some trick flyers. If the winds blowing from south do drop by East Coast Park (carpark D1) there are guys flying there almost everyday. I'm sure they 'll be glad to help you.
If the winds are from North, we'll probably flying in the fields around Punggol.
I heard from another SG flier Fred that fliers gather at ECP D1 often, but due to other commitments, I don't see daylight often during weekdays. I believe it's difficult to fly at night, esp with the lighting at ECP.

BTW, save up for both Widowmaker STD and UL . I'm sure you learn faster as you could fly all year round with those two.  ;)
Most flyers in our local group pull out gliders rather than SUL when the wind drops. They find it is more fun and less frustraion.

Yup saving up now. In the meanwhile, I may get a indoor glider to play with when the wind is unavailable. lol.

Widowmaker Std and UL: do they trick the same way? I read somewhere that the input styles are quite different...


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 24, 2012, 09:35 AM
Widowmaker Std and UL: do they trick the same way? I read somewhere that the input styles are quite different...

No they are similar. YMMV

First. any kite UL verson will trick differently that a standard verson because they have different masses, plus usally flown in different wind speeds.

UL with less mass rotate slower in tricks, but many times that is helpfull in learning.  ;D

Both the UL and Std fly similar and accepts the same type inputs. Changes for timing are bigger that the input streangth.



Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: PAW on October 24, 2012, 02:27 PM
If you change the bridle, like written, this one is really good in the low price segment !
[url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8592.0[/url] ([url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8592.0[/url])

Drifter by Wolkenstürmer...at Cologne / corrected, bridle measure, upload ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EDfoDSo3po#ws)


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: jecko on October 24, 2012, 05:40 PM
Spot on , from Wayner.

How often you fly will determined your progress.
Put in more hours and you will be able to adjust what inputs are needed for certain tricks when you change kites few minutes.

Here a suggestion:
zero wind - indoor glider (iflite,emong ... etc) or Focus kite - Echo ( for some dual line flying)
 Widowmaker UL
 Widowmaker STD ( get windbrakes for those high wind days) and if it still pulls like a cow get a
 Revolution JB series Full Vent. :D

happy flying.  :)





Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: freedy on October 24, 2012, 07:22 PM
It is a good suggestion. I always check on wind forecasts before heading out. On windless days, i usually fly the FW Emong. When there is wind then i will pull out my stunt kites. Less frustration. :D


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 26, 2012, 07:27 PM
What about Premier Widow? It's not a UL but I heard it is as tricky as the WidowMaker, but half the price.

What it the minimum wind to make it fly with minimal footwork (actual, not on paper)? Would you recommend it under my wind conditions?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 27, 2012, 09:39 AM
What about Premier Widow? It's not a UL but I heard it is as tricky as the WidowMaker, but half the price.

What it the minimum wind to make it fly with minimal footwork (actual, not on paper)? Would you recommend it under my wind conditions?

Nice kite at a good price. Bad news it takes more wind to fly than the std WidowMaker. Sholud fly in less wind the your current kite. For this price range you should look the at Shadow.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Tmadz on October 27, 2012, 11:44 AM
Jon T reframed a premier Widow into a UL for me. I haven't had light enough wind to see how low it will go, but i had it down to 5mph inland without any walking. It flies great and has made everything I am able to do much easier. Would love to see what the WM std can do though. Great kite for a reasonable budget.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 27, 2012, 08:07 PM
Nice kite at a good price. Bad news it takes more wind to fly than the std WidowMaker. Sholud fly in less wind the your current kite. For this price range you should look the at Shadow.
less wind referring to 4mph? 5mph?

Jon T reframed a premier Widow into a UL for me. I haven't had light enough wind to see how low it will go, but i had it down to 5mph inland without any walking. It flies great and has made everything I am able to do much easier. Would love to see what the WM std can do though. Great kite for a reasonable budget.
but with the reframing, it will cost as much as a WM i suppose...


WM std can fly as low as 3mph, I suppose is this not normal for all standards right?
What other standards can perform as well in 3-4mph?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 27, 2012, 11:45 PM

WM std can fly as low as 3mph, I suppose is this not normal for all standards right?
What other standards can perform as well in 3-4mph?

Sorry. don't know of any other full size kites line the WM in your price range.  :(

Any kite with this low a wind range would be the same price or higher than the WM.

Finding other flyers on the island may help you find a kite.  ;)
The only way to see why you would pay for a $300 kite is to fly one.  ;D

Flying kites of different prices would will quickly see what makes them different. This makes your decision very easy. You will quickly match what kites can do based on cost. Then choose what price vs performace works for you. 



Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: freedy on October 28, 2012, 04:05 AM
I can let you test fly my WM UL. ;D I am planning to get a WM standard to keep it company.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Tmadz on October 28, 2012, 05:59 AM
Jon T reframed a premier Widow into a UL for me. I haven't had light enough wind to see how low it will go, but i had it down to 5mph inland without any walking. It flies great and has made everything I am able to do much easier. Would love to see what the WM std can do though. Great kite for a reasonable budget.
but with the reframing, it will cost as much as a WM i suppose...

iI got mine on clearance. It wasn't much more. Nowhere near as expensive as a WM, but I don't know if a Freestylist would be in order then since the prices are comparable.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 28, 2012, 11:02 AM
I can let you test fly my WM UL. ;D I am planning to get a WM standard to keep it company.

Messyboy will love this.  ;D

Jon T reframed a premier Widow into a UL for me. I haven't had light enough wind to see how low it will go, but i had it down to 5mph inland without any walking. It flies great and has made everything I am able to do much easier. Would love to see what the WM std can do though. Great kite for a reasonable budget.
but with the reframing, it will cost as much as a WM i suppose...

iI got mine on clearance. It wasn't much more. Nowhere near as expensive as a WM, but I don't know if a Freestylist would be in order then since the prices are comparable.

Good topic when calling Jon.  ;) The Freestylist UL would fly lower but it always nice to have options as they are different kites but both are a good choice . Plus the Niknak is a wonderful low wind kite for little money if your not into tricks. Sorry I gave mine away  :-[


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Desertflier on October 28, 2012, 05:35 PM
+1 for the Nik Nak    ;) 
Flies smooth in very low winds. Not very tricky though.


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: messyboy on October 29, 2012, 04:14 PM
Freestylist vs widow std: which one has a lower wind range? Also trickwise, are there any that one can do better than the other?  ::)

What about the ul version?


Title: Re: Low Wind Tricky Kites
Post by: Wayner on October 29, 2012, 05:37 PM
Freestylist vs widow std: which one has a lower wind range? Also trickwise, are there any that one can do better than the other?  ::)

What about the ul version?

I can compare the UL versions. Only have the WM std.

Both UL have excelent low wind abilities. The WM has about 2mph higher upper end wind range.

Both are very capable trick kites. Remember the kite does not do the tricks for free. You have to learn them.  :D

As you are getting started in tricks, both will keep you learning for years. I fly based on what I am in the mood for, not which is better. 

That said. If cost/value is the main issue go with the freestylist. years from now if you have outgrowned it you can sell it and move on to a more advanced kite.  8)

If you wanted to buy only one UL kite to go from beginner to advanced flyer, the WM would be at the top of my list.  8)