GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: Doug S on November 16, 2012, 09:59 AM



Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 16, 2012, 09:59 AM
As to my current kiting distractions, the attached picture shows three canard kites I have recently built.  The top one is my version of Leong Ceewan's great Plutz kite design.  The one on the lower left is a larger version (4-foot wing span) with my preferences for sail shape and a front sail (black in color), which can be removed.  And as they say on the old Monty Python show "Time for something completely different," the one on the lower right is my sweep forward canard I call the Arrow.  All three glide great.  The sweep forward canard kite is a work in progress regarding framing stiffness on the canard wing, which I hope to have resolved when the wind becomes more reasonable.

As an update to my efforts in designing and building Canard Single Line Kites, I came across an excellent Excel Program developed by Daniel Prosser.  Dan developed the program for model airplanes, but it is applicable to our hobby.

The following provides the link to download the program:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTE1ueEpJWW1XRUE (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTE1ueEpJWW1XRUE)


For those of you who do not have the latest version of Excel, the following provides the link to download the program that will work in Excel 2003:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScUp0MjhXT3kwdVE (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScUp0MjhXT3kwdVE)


The following provides the link to download the User Guide for the program:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZy1NVjBMczhLOFE (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZy1NVjBMczhLOFE)


The following provides the link to download the program, where my Arrow Canard Kite was entered in the various input fields so that you can see how the program works with a canard kite:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYmhvWWpHQTItWjQ (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYmhvWWpHQTItWjQ)


The following links provide the link to download pictures of my Arrow Canard Kite, so that you can see the actual kite I used in the program:

  -  Arrow Canard Bottom (Line) View:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSejN0OVFOYW5XRTg (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSejN0OVFOYW5XRTg)
  -  Arrow Canard Top View:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSd1ZLU3lOd1dVTWM (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSd1ZLU3lOd1dVTWM)
  -  Arrow Canard Side View:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNlJEWGN4eHFEeUk (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNlJEWGN4eHFEeUk)


Since I last discussed this kite, it now has a light hollow carbon tube center spine and spreaders (1/8" OD) and a custom reinforced center joiner.  To connect the spreaders, I had to modify a stock 1/8" yellow center joiner that has 20 degrees of angle, so that it would be strong enough for each spreader to angle forward 10 degrees, while allowing each spreader to bend up towards the tips of the main sail.  With a stock 1/8" yellow center joiner, the preexisting center hole was filled with solid carbon rod that was glued in place.  The joiner was then rotated 90 degrees, where an 1/8" hole was drilled to accept the center spine through the "V".  Two strips of rectangular carbon were glued (thick crazy glue) to each side of the "V".  At the ends of the carbon, light line was wrapped and then coated with glue (thin crazy glue).  The finished joiner was then painted black because the yellow portion of the reinforced joiner does not go with my sail colors.

There are several battens to assist the sails in keeping their shape.  There is a 0.05" OD solid carbon center batten in the Canard Sail (Front) as a center spine, which keeps this sail from billowing along the center.  There is also a mid-point line connecting this sail batten to the frame center spine to keep the center part of the sail straight, which you can see in the side view picture.  In the Main Sail at the tips, there are two 0.03" solid carbon battens that are curved to keep the tips parallel to the main body of the sail.  Due to the neat angle cut in the Main Sail, I had to add two 0.03" solid carbon battens in the seams of blue/black and white/red panels.  Since I like to make my kites with straight stiches, the battens slide right in from a small hole I made just in front of the trailing edge seam.  All of the white connecting lines and bridle line are made from 80 lb. spectra line left over from making my stunt kite lines.  I use spectra because it does not stretch and there is a bit of tension on most of the connecting lines.

The kite is a blast to fly, and flies like a blend of a Plutz-3/Zero-G and a fighter kite because it spins on a dime.  Since I love to tinker, I am experimenting with various locations for the center of gravity, by adding different 1" inch increment lengths of 0.196" carbon tubes over the center spine at the nose.

Enjoy,

Doug Stout

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmST041X3FwQXlmd2c)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSejN0OVFOYW5XRTg)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSd1ZLU3lOd1dVTWM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNlJEWGN4eHFEeUk)


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on November 16, 2012, 10:11 AM
Hey Doug:
looks like the bottom links are not public.....


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 16, 2012, 02:37 PM
I think I fixed sharing the pictures.  Please confirm you can see them.

Thanks,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on November 17, 2012, 06:14 AM
Those work for me now!
That is a purty kite!!!!  I would love to see detail shots of that center t.
Any flight shots or videos???


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 21, 2012, 05:12 AM
I should have some time this Thanksgiving weekend to take and upload more photographs.  The photos that are accessible by the provided links are at a good resolution, so if you zoom in, you can see more detail.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on November 21, 2012, 06:03 AM
It looks very cool.....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L9v6srSfoTg/UKzeGi18T2I/AAAAAAAAZeY/ENk-nLYQN-M/s512/Arrow%2520Canard%2520Kite%2520-%2520Top%2520View.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mNE635BYgqE/UKzeOz_dTyI/AAAAAAAAZeU/496bCyxB3Qo/s512/Arrow%2520Canard%2520Kite%2520-%2520Bottom%2520View.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8mwmOnNuF8Y/UKzeCo-rgwI/AAAAAAAAZeQ/eeKFA0dcyLQ/s912/Arrow%2520Canard%2520Kite%2520-%2520Side%2520View.jpg)


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 22, 2012, 07:49 AM
The following links provide the pictures of the highly modified joiner.  Flight pictures to come.    ;D

Arrow Canard Joiner - Bottom View:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSekVjZXBzRkxGNjQ
Arrow Canard Joiner - Front View:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMFNhMUkzQmhhX2M


Doug



Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on November 23, 2012, 07:20 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uaz4Tdzywl4/UK-TE-NQ6DI/AAAAAAAAZi8/PP2cGHzmX48/s640/Arrow%2520Canard%2520Kite%2520Center%2520Joiner%2520-%2520Front%2520View.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kZmMpgIvx5c/UK-TCIfx55I/AAAAAAAAZiw/i31v6s-sEto/s640/Arrow%2520Canard%2520Kite%2520Center%2520Joiner%2520-%2520Bottom%2520View.jpg)

So....lots of epoxy/resin....and what looks like a carbon bar?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 23, 2012, 10:10 AM
Epoxy/resin would have been too heavy.  I just used crazy glue (thick type) to bond the carbon bar to each side of the joiner.  The carbon bar has a cross section that is 0.15" x 0.03".  I carefully rounded the edges of the carbon strips with sand paper, and then used crazy glue (thin type) to seal the sanded edges.  I also used crazy glue (thin type) to bond/saturate the line wrapping the ends.  A very thin coat of black paint was applied.  The finished weight for the joiner is 2.3 grams.  I would have liked it to be lighter in weight, but without the graphite strips, the previous joiner were cracking in the middle due to the load of the curved spreaders.  Thank you for making this a separate post.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DD on November 23, 2012, 10:16 AM
is there that much stress or is the joiner so weak that it needed the reinforcements?
It is a very cool kite!
was it difficult to sew?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 23, 2012, 10:36 AM
Quite a bit of stress since the spreader is not one piece like on the Plutz-3 and Zero-G.  I loved the shape of the X-29 Experimental Fighter Airplane, which was the concept behind the rear wing.  Sewing was easy for me, but you have to get used to working with small pieces of material and I use narrow (3/16") seams.  The black reinforcements are made from dacron.  I used ripstop polyester for the sail material.


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 07, 2012, 04:34 PM
Since the wind has been too strong to get photos of my Arrow Canard Kite, I got the itch to design the next progression of this design concept.  The following picture provides the drawing I prepared in AutoCAD, and exported to Microsoft Paint to select the colors (Red, White, Blue, and Black).
 
The template patterns are done and I will start fabrication of the prototype over the holiday break.

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdFBDTUd6dWNHZEk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: JimB on December 07, 2012, 08:52 PM
That is pretty cool Doug. ;)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 08, 2012, 07:24 AM
Thanks. ;D  I cut out the 8 templates for the 14 panels this morning.  It's going to be fun to build.  :D  I designed it to use a one piece spreader.  Also, I added more sail area to the rear sail to move the neutral point back.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite - Program Used to Model the Design
Post by: Doug S on December 14, 2012, 02:11 PM
The following provides the link to download the CGCalc Program using my new Rapere Canard Kite as an example.  To model the curves in each sail, I subdivided the sails in AutoCAD and then measured each panel in AutoCAD.  You can see the various panels when you view the Wing and Canard Tabs.  After I build the kite over the holidays, I will enter the weight and balance data into the file.

DKS Rapere Canard Kite in Excel Program:  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSmFRRmxGUGdGS2s

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Bob D on December 15, 2012, 04:42 AM
Doug: You have to tell us how it flies! Your kites are very cool!


Title: Doug Stout's 24 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 12, 2013, 09:02 AM
Had a little delay over the holidays in building the new Rapare Canard, due to the family and I being hit with the Flu the day after Christmas.  :-[  While recovering, I designed and built a couch potato kite, which I named the Hawk.  It is fun to fly in the house and in my front yard.  ;D  The attached picture provides my current flock of Hawks.

The Hawk has a wing span of 24 inches and 16 inches long.  The red and blue ones are made with newer polyester sail material and each weigh 8.3 grams, while the grey one is made from old rectangular grid Icrex polyester sail material and weighs 7.8 grams.  These three kites are framed with 0.04 inch carbon rods for the wing spars and spreader, with a 0.05 inch carbon rod center spine.  The two tone red/blue one on the end weighs 9.9 grams and is framed with 0.05 inch carbon rods for the wing spars and spreader, with a 0.06 inch carbon rod center spine.  The extra weight is due to the extra stitching and larger diameter carbon rods.  This one is made to handle higher winds.

I tried making the first Hawk with white Orcon and tape, and failed miserably.  I hand cutout the Orcon, but when taping the first leading edge, the material ripped between one of the grid cells.  I went back to what I am good at, which is ripstop polyester and my old Singer Sewing Machine.

Since small is good, then smaller must be great.  I have two Little Hawks on the work table that each have a wing span of only 12 inches and 8 inches long.  I will build these two this weekend.  Next week I will begin the Rapare Canard.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSbHloZGtCejlpUzQ)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on January 13, 2013, 09:24 AM
Any chance of posting up a quick drawing of these? Steve is enjoying flying his iFlight in rehab and getting a little attention drawn to kites as a low impact therapy from some of the nurses and therapists. A bit more variety in his bag might draw a bit more interest.

I happen to have some of the older Icarex laying around and some smaller carbon purchased for unfinished projects. Otherwise Ted has access to the palatial GWTW repair warehouse where I might find what I need.



Title: Doug Stout's 24 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 13, 2013, 05:41 PM
Mike,

I just sent you an E-Mail with the requested design, and pictures of the construction details.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 13, 2013, 05:56 PM
Hey Doug, can you share it with me as well?
Thanks!


Title: Doug Stout's 24 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 13, 2013, 06:13 PM
I just sent you an E-Mail with the requested design, and pictures of the construction details.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on January 14, 2013, 08:09 AM
Thanks Doug, I visited Steve a couple times over the weekend, he's comfortable with the iFlight in the room or rec room, but concerned about a larger kite appearing more threatening to others. The staff originally felt the answer to his question about flying inside would be no, but upon seeing the iFlight, the short line & wand used and the slow glide he got a thumbs up for now, at least until he hits somebody (not likely).

But I'll be checking them out, hopefully get one together, your smaller 12" x 8" is only a bit larger then the iFlight if I can find a light plastic bag and not run into your problems trying to tape things. I haven't got much experience working with lastic & tape either.





Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 14, 2013, 08:57 AM
Mike,

I am currently building the prototype for the Little Hawk.  If it flys the way I like, I will get you a copy of the plans.  I am making mine with the old grey Icrex.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on January 14, 2013, 09:54 AM
Cool, I've been running some possible construction techniques using a plastic film to try and keep things very light & floaty like the iFlight. But I'll look forward to hearing how an Icarex version does at that size. I'm comfortable working with it and have Scotch 9460 tape so I would just go no-sew. I used to build fighters that way in a couple hours after dinner at the beach on a 36" round table with a pile of newspapers for a cutting surface, an Exacto knife and a 18"straight edge. I have real tools here  ;)



Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 14, 2013, 02:13 PM
Mike,

Check your E-Mail.  I sent you the prototype drawings for the Little Hawk.  I should have my prototype done by the weekend.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 18, 2013, 06:52 AM
Mike,

I finished my prototype of the Little Hawk late last night.  The attached picture shows the Little Hawk next to the 24 in. Hawk.  The Little Hawk has a wing span of 12 in. and length of 8 in.  Old grey Icrex was used for the sail material.  The finished Little Hawk weighs 2 grams.  The wing spars are each 5 1/2 in. long and the spreader is 7 7/8 in. long, where both are made from 0.03 in. carbon rods.  The center spine is 8 1/8 in. long and made from a 0.04 in. carbon rod.  A 1/16 in. ID vinyl end cap was used for the nose of the center spine.  Black Dacron was used for the sail reinforcements.  Double sided tape was used to place the Dacron circles in the three locations where the lines go through the sail, and then a small washer was used as a template to hot cut the holes with a fine tip soldering iron.  The leading edges and the other Dacron reinforcements were sewn in place.  35 lb. spectra line was used for the various lines and 80 lb. spectra line was used to tie the center spine end cap to the nose.  The 35 lb. spectra line loops to connect the spreader to the wing spars are each 3/4 in. long, where a larks head knot was used around the wing spar, and then around the tip of the spreader.  The bridle is 5 1/2 in. long where it exits the sail at the two connection points.  The leader line is 6 in. long from the bridle to the knot at the end.  The spreader is 5/8 in. off of the sail at the center spine.  The 1/16 in. long stops on the wing spars (2 stops) and the spreader (2 stops at each end, 2 stops in the center) were carefully stripped from a piece of black insulated copper electrical wire.  A hat pin was used to open the hole in the insulation just enough to fit on the carbon rods.  The black insulation was crazy glued in place on the wing spars and the ends of the spreader.


It was a blast to build a kite this small, especially tying the numerous small knots.  I will dial the kite in this weekend and determine the sweet spot for the center of gravity (CG) that is 3 5/8 in. from the nose, which is slightly tail heavy at this location.  This morning, I added a very small paper clip to the nose and the Little Hawk glided across the room like a great paper airplane.   I also may try using just a 1 in. loop to connect to the bridle instead of the leader line and see how that works.  I will update the plans based on this prototype and my testing this weekend.

On my next version, I will make the tail reinforcement a little narrower.  I used the smallest carbon rods I have in stock, which are 0.03 in.  The current frame in the Little Hawk is more than stiff enough.  I need to acquire some 0.02 in. carbon rods and more 0.03 in. carbon rods to see how that works out.

Enjoy,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSX0JMOTk3d2pnYnM)


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 18, 2013, 09:48 AM
Mike,

The following provides a picture of just the Little Hawk.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSR1BVc0xQUng0UjA)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on January 18, 2013, 12:18 PM


Forgive my ignorance of SLKs, but witch end is the front? (Regarding autocad rendering a few posts back... Pic called rapere)



Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 18, 2013, 01:00 PM
Sugarbaker,

Canards can be confusing, except in the eyes of the designer.  The front of the Rapere is on the right side of the drawing.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on January 18, 2013, 01:40 PM
thanks for the clarification!  It looks great.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on January 18, 2013, 03:38 PM
Doug, thanks so much for the info, hope I can get to this soon but have a transmission out in the van and my be tied up this weekend. Looks great though.



Title: Doug Stout's Measurements of Sail Materials for Light Wind Kites
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2013, 07:13 AM
Mike,

The Hawk designs fly fine with convention materials, but are fast due to their sail loading.  The sail loading for my lightest Hawk with the old grey Icarex is 0.2 oz./sq.ft.  My calculations for what has been published for the iFlite (Not Vented) indicates that it has a sail loading of about 0.1 oz./sq.ft., thus I am going to put a new version of my Hawk on a diet.

I performed some weight measurements of the various types of sail material scraps I have on hand.  I use an old OHAUS 700 Triple Beam Balance.  To check the calibration the scale, I have OHAUS reference weights that go down to 1.0 gram.  The following provides the results of my measurements on 40 sq.in. pieces of each material:

Material                               Area         Weight                 Density
                                         (sq.in.)      (grams)      oz./sq.yd.    g./sq.m.
PC-31 Grey (Rect. Grid)           40             0.90          1.029          24.381
PC-31 Blue (Rect. Grid)           40             1.05          1.200          28.445
PC-31 Red (Square Grid)        40             1.00          1.143          27.091
Orcon AN-36W White              40             0.48          0.549          13.003

Based on the above, the Orcon material I purchased from Hang'em High Fabrics before Hurricane Irene looks like the way to go.  This Orcon material is what I tried before, where I was having a problem with using tape.  Does anyone know if this is the Orcon material I should be using, or is there another version that is a little stronger between the grids.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 25, 2013, 07:29 AM
sounds like you need to get some of the lightest weight Cuben Fiber fabric as well.....

are you able to drop the weight by scaling down the rods as well?


Title: Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2013, 08:24 AM
Thief,

Where would I able to purchase Cuben Fiber Fabric and does anyone have the mass/area of this fabric?  I also will try and would go down a size on the carbon rods.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 25, 2013, 08:57 AM
Cubern Fiber material is now a North Sails product.....it is pricey....but those people who have gotten some to work with love it.....sew it...or tape and it works great....
Windfire Designs (Tim Elverston) uses it quite a bit for his super xUL kites......both single line and quad lines....
there are a few weights of the material to check out...if you search here on the forum you can find info that AE has posted about it...he uses it in his dual line kites...


Title: Cuben Fabric - Sources and Weights
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2013, 01:06 PM
The following provides the results of my quick research for Cuben, also known as CTF3 by Cubic Tech Corp.  The following link provides the spec sheet:  http://www.cubictechnology.com/CTF3%20PRODUCT%20INFO%20PACK%2007192010_4c.pdf. (http://www.cubictechnology.com/CTF3%20PRODUCT%20INFO%20PACK%2007192010_4c.pdf.)

Quest Outfitters (http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN (http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN)) offers the following light weight Cuben material:

     0.33 oz./sq.yd. @ $27.15/yard (54 in. wide)
     0.48 oz./sq.yd. @ $29.59/yard (54 in. wide)
     0.74 oz./sq.yd. @ $32.69/yard (54 in. wide)

Quest indicates the weights are approximate and do not provide the g./m².

ZPacks (http://www.zpacks.com/materials.shtml (http://www.zpacks.com/materials.shtml)) offers the following light weight Cuben material:

     0.51 oz./sq.yd. (17.4 g./m²) @ $26/yard (54 in. wide)
     0.74 oz./sq.yd. (25.4 g./m²) @ $27/yard (54 in. wide)

Bear Paw (http://www.bearpawwd.com/fabrics_misc/fabrics_misc.html (http://www.bearpawwd.com/fabrics_misc/fabrics_misc.html)) also offers the same weights as above, but in increments of 1/2 yards.

     0.51 oz./sq.yd. (17.4 g./m²) @ $13.50/½ yard (54 in. wide)
     0.74 oz./sq.yd. (25.4 g./m²) @ $14.20/½ yard (54 in. wide)

Does anyone have any experience in using any of the weights listed above and what weight would you recommend?  Based on my research on the GWTW Form, the Cuben material needs to be taped and is hard to work with.  Has there been any recent use of the Cuben material where it can be sewn or is tape the way to go?  Also, is this material as fragile as the White Orcon (BMS8-142V, Type XI, CL00, AN36W) that I currently have from Hang’em High Fabrics?

Thank you in advance for any support you can provide.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2013, 04:49 PM
While I try to figure out what to use as materials for my next Hawk, it's time to cut out the sail material for the Rapere Canard.  We are getting snow up here in the northeast.  Good time to build another kite.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 25, 2013, 06:02 PM
Cuben is more robust than orcon......hot cut it...cold cut it....
Tim sews it just fine....double sided tape works great too....

http://www.windfiredesigns.com/timbofolio_pages/lacewings-colorwings.html (http://www.windfiredesigns.com/timbofolio_pages/lacewings-colorwings.html)
It also takes oil paint great!
http://www.windfiredesigns.com/ColorWing-Flames/index.html (http://www.windfiredesigns.com/ColorWing-Flames/index.html)

Andre's (ae) threads: http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8863.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=8863.0)
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5457.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5457.0)
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=6328.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=6328.0)


Title: Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2013, 07:03 PM
Thief,

Thanks for the links.  When I did the search earlier today, I found the same info about Cuben before your post, but wasn’t convinced with statements by “ae” such as “Is it fragile?  Heck yes, it’s 11g/m2 laminate, but used correctly it will outlast your frame.”  It appears that Cuben will be the way to go, since me working (poorly) with Orcon is like trying to build a kite out of a soap bubble. :D

Back to hot cutting out the sail for the Rapere and I am half way done.  It’s a cold winter night, it’s snowing, the radio is on in my work shop, and I am in kite maker’s heaven. ;D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on January 26, 2013, 01:51 AM
Thanks for the links on the Cuben fabric, last I looked I couldn't find any retail distributors in the US, but that was way back when it first came out. I wonder if something as small as your mini hawk really needs any reinforcing scrim though, the stresses and loads will be so light, but if your looking for reliability/longevity it might be worth the investment. John Weldon was successful finding some very thin Mylar for his miniatures, I'll have to look back on his thread to see if he mentioned his source. Without the scrim though Mylar is extremely fragile unless you reinforce the edge, strong under tension but if you nick an edge it'll rip with little force.



Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 26, 2013, 07:34 AM
Mike,

Thank you for your suggestions on the smaller version of my Hawk.  I will acquire some Cuben and smaller diameter carbon rods.  I also have access to scrap fiber optic material.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 26, 2013, 07:36 AM
The following provides a picture of the cut out panels for the Rapere Canard.  The front of the kite is to the top.  I will start sewing today.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSY2dYaEZmVnYyQTA)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on February 16, 2013, 02:41 PM
Had a delay in making kites due to a family car accident.  Our backup vehicle (1998 Jeep Cherokee) was rolled by my son, but no one was hurt.  Just took time to deal with the damaged car and find a new/used car (2007 Honda Civic EX) for my 17 year old son.

The following picture shows the Rapere sail panels sewn together.  Next I will add all of the Dacron reinforcements, and then assemble the kite.

Regarding my Hawks and thanks to guidance on this forum, I now have very light Cuben material, tedlar tape, and 0.02 and 0.03 carbon rods.  After I finish the Rapere, I will build the ultra-light version of the Little Hawk, which has a 1 foot wing span.  My calculations indicate that I should be able to make the Little Hawk with a total weight of 1 gram, which will give the Little Hawk a slightly lower (lighter) sail loading then the iFlite.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSnRudjY3eEdwRG8)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on February 20, 2013, 06:59 PM
I finished building my Rapere Canard kite this weekend.  The following provides two pictures of the assembled kite.  I let the kite hang assembled for a few days to allow the sail and stitching to stretch and settle in due to all of the sail panels.  Please let me know what you think.   ;)

It came out better than I expected and looks great when you hold it up to the light.  Glide tests in our home, along with the associated tweaking, show that this kite has potential.  When the weather cooperates up here in the northwest New Jersey, I will start the final trimming process outside.  With canard kites of this type, there are a lot of adjustments to tinker with, which I love to do.   ;D

As the weather is still very entertaining, I will now start my very light Little Hawk.

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSa0M5NjhwNTRhTW8)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSRmlPM0FrWlpZRmM)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on February 21, 2013, 12:27 AM
Looks very cool Doug, it should be fun!
 Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on February 21, 2013, 03:22 AM
how tight is the skin that it needs to settle in???


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on February 21, 2013, 08:32 AM
thief,

The construction of this type of Canard causes the rear sail to be under a bit of tension, since you’re pulling the center of the sail downward to the center spine to provide dihedral for stability and incident angle between the front and rear sails.  I use two layers (2 top and 2 bottom) of Dacron in the front and rear portions of the rear sail.  I also double loop the line through each hole.

The front sail is just tight enough to keep it from dipping under its own weight and provide the incidence angle between the front and rear sails.

The settling of the sail relates mostly to the minor puckering you get where you stitch, such as with the single folded hem around the curved perimeter of the sail and the seams for the sail panels.

The frame (center spine and spreader) is comprised of thin wall 0.125 in. carbon tubes, with a 0.05 in. carbon rod along the center of the front sail, and 0.04 in. carbon rods used as curved battens for the tips of the rear sail.  In earlier designs of this size (48 in. long, 42 in. wide) I have tried thinner solid carbon rods, but they were not stiff enough.  The rear sail on this type of kite would flap like a bird under load until I replaced the spreader with a thin wall 0.125 in. carbon tube.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on February 21, 2013, 11:12 AM
I finished building my Rapere Canard kite this weekend. 


Looks excellent Doug. What would I have to do to convince you to share the plans so I could build one too?

Regardless, I'm excited to see some video and more photos as you send it into flight!

Stephen


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on February 22, 2013, 10:27 AM
sugarbaker,

I couldn't wait and I flew my Rapere in my front yard in winds gusting to 7 mph.  The Rapere, along with the retrimmed Arrow flew great.  ;D

I will start working on the Rapere plans for public use, which will have a 14 panel version (as in the pictures) and a simpler 4 panel version.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on February 23, 2013, 02:47 AM
Doug, this news makes me very happy.  I can't wait to build one! Thank you in advance for this gift you are working on!


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 03, 2013, 07:37 PM
Fellow Kite Builders,

The updated plans and pictures for my Rapere are now at Post No. 72.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Texanpilot on March 03, 2013, 09:10 PM
Have you flown it enough to give us a flight report?

I've been watching this thread quite closely, as I've been wanting to add another glider to my kite bag (I have a Laima), and trying to decide which one to build.

Thanks for all your work on this and your willingness to share it.


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 04, 2013, 06:19 AM
Texanpilot,

Thank you for your interest.  Due to the weather up here in the northeast, I have only flow the Rapere on a few occasions, mostly in my front yard that is 60 by 60 feet.  My last flight was this past Saturday with a light wind and snow flurries.  I only stopped flying due to a loop-knot in my 50 pound spectra flying line.

I am extremely pleased with the fight characteristics of this kite, which is why I have offered the plans to this kite community.  With the 9 in. long piece of 0.2100 carbon rod as nose weight that provides the forward center of gravity indicated on the plans, I can toss the kite like a paper airplane, allow it to glide for 30 feet, then apply slight line tension where the kite rotates to the climb position, and more tension to allow the kite to climb like a conventional single line kite.  When you provide slack to the line during the climb, the kite transitions back into a glider, and glides in the direction it is facing.  Very slight line tension during the glide will allow you to turn the kite to you.  In my limited flying time with the kite, I was able to easily steer and glide the kite back into my hands.

Please note that since this kite is framed with thin wall 0.125 carbon tubes and has quite a bit of sail area, it will get overloaded in winds above 5 mph.  The provided design and pictures represent the current configuration of my constructed kite, with the forward center of gravity.  In the future, I will experiment with a little less nose weight (6 to 9 in. long 0.2100 carbon rods).  If the weather cooperates this coming weekend, I will try to take some in flight pictures and video.

The Rapere is the third generation of my canard kites.  Many thanks to Leong Ceewan and his Plutz designs, which inspired me to develop the Arrow and Rapere.  My goal with Arrow was to make a canard kite with the front sail going all the way to the front tip of the center spine, and have a uniquely shaped rear sail, like the X-29.  My goal with the Rapere was to maximize the sail area for this type of kite, which would reduce the sail loading and make the kite more responsive to slight changes in a light wind.  Both the Arrow and Rapere are a real joy to fly, with the Rapere being my favorite because it makes me look good when I am flying it.

I also own a Laima and was very disappointed with its flight characteristics.  I purchased the Laima because I like the looks of the kite, but it is not a glider.  Over the past three years, I have designed and constructed numerous single sail and canard type no/low wind single line kites, with wing spans ranging from 30 to 96 inches.  As indicated above, the Rapere is by far my most favorite kite of this type to fly.

If you wish to build this kite, you should have some experience in building kites before constructing the Rapere, since the kite has 14 sail panels, and numerous reinforcements and connection lines.  I also provided a simpler version of the sail with only 4 panels.  Another individual that posts often on this forum is in the process of building a Rapere.  I hope he finds time to post his experience in constructing and flying the kite.

If you should have any other questions, please just send me a note.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 04, 2013, 06:27 AM
yeah..i would love to try one of these..but i know that at this time i do not have skills to build one to the specifics needed......
More pictures definitely!!!
This looks great Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite Pictures
Post by: Doug S on March 09, 2013, 05:47 PM
thief,

I got out today and had a blast flying the Rapere, with about 6 in. of melting snow cover on our local sport fields.  The Rapere loves 1-2 mph winds and can cover a lot of ground on the downwind glide run.  It fly’s nice and slow in smaller areas with 0-1 mph winds.  With the thin wall carbon tubes, the upper wind speed is about 4 mph.  The wind speeds were measured at the ground level, so the actual upper winds were stronger.

The following provides the best pictures of the Rapere in flight.  It was fun flying the Rapere with one hand, and trying to take pictures with the other.  This kite can fly and land itself just fine when you accidentally drop the line, which I did to take some of the pictures.  The last picture one is my favorite.   ;D

I updated my prior post that provides the plans and the pictures.  The Rapere is now using a fix bridle that works the best.  The Side View Plans provide the revised bridle and the associated measurements.

Enjoy,

Doug   ;)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSVUpDWFlCVTB3LUE)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWkF2enVPNGhLOGM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYldIVkR5aW1LLTg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on March 11, 2013, 06:44 PM
I'm in the midst of building this fine kite... I'd discourage anyone from tackling his as a first build.  While it is not a large kite and I appreciate working with these small panels, I'll pass on that a proper layout and conceptualization of how the panels will unfold when sewn properly is important... if not critical. There are some pictures in the works from my own build that I will see about posting up this coming weekend. 


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Texanpilot on March 11, 2013, 07:19 PM
I have built some kites before - a few airfoils (up to 5m), and a four-paneled rok and a roller (two panels on upper sail plus the rudder sandwiched between the two halves of the lower sail).  So I'd like to think that I can get the panel layout straight.

I look forward to Sugarbaker's build photos.

I do have a couple of questions:

1. How to measure the line stopper locations on the spine?  I don't see any figures, and some don't seem to line up straight with the edges of the sails.
2.  I'm thinking about using .75 oz ripstop for the sail, since I have plenty on hand.  Other than making the kite heavier, do you think that there will be any other problems? Would the spars need to be upsized to handle the higher sail weight?  I do understand that this may require re-figuring the nose weighting to keep the center of gravity at the proper place.

I'm thinking that the overall heavier weight may not be a terrible thing - for me.  My Laima switches from glider to regular kite pretty low on the wind scale, and most of the times I've had it out at the park the wind has been over that switching point.   I kind of want something that I can still maneuver and glide in the wind range just above the Laima, and was wondering if a bit heavier canard-type gilder would fit the bill.

Thanks again.


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 12, 2013, 07:51 AM
Texanpilot,

Thank you for your interest in the Rapere.  The following provides my response to each of your questions:

“1.  How to measure the line stopper locations on the spine?  I don't see any figures, and some don't seem to line up straight with the edges of the sails.”

If you download the Side View Plan provided in my earlier post with the plans, each stopper location is illustrated along the center spine.  Also, each set of plans are provided in full scale.  Please note that I made some minor changes to the bridle (fixed) and line lengths on March 9, 2013, which are provided in the plans.  For your information, the stoppers are not glued in place.

The lines on the Front Sail that connect to the Center Spine are perpendicular to that sail surface.  The optional vertical line at the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail is parallel to these two other lines.

I now want to provide you some interesting observations regarding the optional vertical line.  This vertical line provides stability to the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail in winds from 2 to 4 mph, but is not desired in no/low wind conditions.  In no/low wind conditions, I disconnect this line to allow the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail to move vertically, thus automatically adjusting the Angle of Attack for the Rear Sail.  During the hand toss to launch the Rapere, the leading edge of Rear Sail moves upward, adjusting the entire Rear Sail angle, which reduces the angle between the Front and Rear Sails and allows for a flat glide.  When the Rapere slows down to normal glide speed, the Leading Edge moves back down, readjusts the entire Rear Sail and allows the Rapere to float.  It’s kind of cool to see this take place in flight.  I am currently experimenting with a longer vertical line that can be slide back on the center spine to hold the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail at the static (not flying) height above the Center Spine.  In no/low wind conditions, this line can be moved forward to the vertical location that will allow this line to be slack and allow the Leading Edge of the Rear Sail to move vertically.  This longer vertical line will prevent one from having to disconnect the line.

When I make lines with a loop on each end, I tie the first loop at one end of the line.  I then slip the loop over the end of my steel ruler, and make a mark at the desired length with a sharpie, where the mark will be the tip of the second loop.  I tie the second loop making sure the mark stays in the center at the tip.  The measurements provided in the Side View Plans take in account the loss of line length for a knot using the indicated 80 spectra line.

“2.  I'm thinking about using .75 oz ripstop for the sail, since I have plenty on hand. Other than making the kite heavier, do you think that there will be any other problems?  Would the spars need to be upsized to handle the higher sail weight?  I do understand that this may require re-figuring the nose weighting to keep the center of gravity at the proper place.  I'm thinking that the overall heavier weight may not be a terrible thing - for me.  My Laima switches from glider to regular kite pretty low on the wind scale, and most of the times I've had it out at the park the wind has been over that switching point. I kind of want something that I can still maneuver and glide in the wind range just above the Laima, and was wondering if a bit heavier canard-type gilder would fit the bill.”

I see no problem with you using what sail material you have on hand.  You indicated that you understand the kite will increase in weight and you will have to adjust the nose weight to get the desired Center of Gravity (CG).  I currently like the forward CG location.  Regarding the frame, it depends on what wind you are going to fly in.  I designed the Rapere for those nice light/no wind days during the summer and fall, which are quite common in the northeast.  This past weekend I flew the Rapere to take some in flight pictures, where the wind was ranging from 0 to 8 mph.  With the thin wall (light) 1/8” OD carbon rods, the sail would cause the frame to be overloaded in winds above 4 mph.  Please note my local flying field is in a slight valley in a low mountain range.  The wind was measured at the ground level and there was a strong vertical wind gradient.  If you want to fly in winds above 4 mph, you should consider using the thick wall (strong) 1/8” OD carbon rods.  I have not used these stronger rods in the Rapere, but will obtain them to see how they work out.

Sorry for being long winded in my response, but I learn something new each time I fly the Rapere, which I want to share with anyone interested in building this kite.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 20, 2013, 07:09 AM
Back to building the lighter version of the Little Hawk (12 in. wing span).  I just love the Cuben material.  You can hot cut it and sew it.  You can even temporarily hold things in place with blue masking tape, and then carefully remove the tape with no damage to the material.  This stuff is great and well worth the money.  ;D

I should have two of the Little Hawks finished by the weekend.  I will post some pictures and the final weight.

I will be purchasing more of the Cuben material for some other entertaining very light kite builds.  Maybe a lighter version of my Hawk (24 in. wing span) and a smaller version of my Rapere (30 in. wing span).

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 24, 2013, 03:49 PM
The attached file provides a picture of the completed sails for two Little Hawks, with the wing spars and center spines in place.  The sail material is made from Cuben.  The wing spars are 0.02 in. carbon rods and the center spine is a 0.03 in. carbon rod.  The left one is a view from the front, while the right one is a view from the back.  The current weight is about 0.75 grams each, so it looks like they will come in at the desired weight of about 1 gram each.  Just waiting for a roll of 10 lb. spectra to arrive to complete the assembly.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNVVWRDBPclZObUU)


Title: Doug Stout's 30 in. Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on March 26, 2013, 08:19 PM
While I wait for my additional building supplies to finish the Little Hawks, I designed a smaller version of my Rapere (Rapere-SM) that has only six (6) panels.  The attached picture shows the cut out panels.  The Rapere-SM was designed around Jon T.’s micro carbon tubes, which will allow this kite to have a wing span of about 30 in. and be about 32.5 in. long.  It should be a quick build and I will post pictures when I complete the kite.  If someone is interested in a six (6) panel version of my Rapere, just let me know since I have the plans drawn up.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSV25TbDMyRWdWN2s)


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 02, 2013, 10:56 AM
I received my 10 lb. Spectra line and finished my two very light Little Hawks this weekend.  The completed weight for each kite is 1.0 grams.  No bad for a kite with a 12 in. wing span.  The attached file provides a picture of the completed Little Hawks.  The sail material is made from Cuben.  The wing spars and spreader are 0.02 in. carbon rods and the center spine is a 0.03 in. carbon rod.  The lines are 10 lb. Spectra.  The left one is a view from the front of the sail, while the right one is a view from the back of the sail.

They are fun to fly in the house.  I use the 10 lb. Spectra for the flying line.  I also flew one outside in winds ranging from 2 to 6 mph as part of my R&D process, or as my flying buddy calls it ”(W)reck-em and destroy-em.”  Fast little kite in that wind with a bit of frame distortion, but no damage.  Tough little kite and sail material.  It's a great indoor or no/low wind kite.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSY00wSGpCLUxyaEE)


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 02, 2013, 01:05 PM
Here is a better view of the Little Hawk from the side...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSa3hJZ3MycTBCam8)


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 02, 2013, 01:58 PM
From the nose...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNDA4b2MtN3RWQnc)


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 02, 2013, 01:59 PM
And from the front...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWjdmYTUwRlpmYVE)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: mikenchico on April 03, 2013, 01:15 PM
Wow, 1 gram, those must just float.

I saw those micro carbon tubes last time I popped in at Kites and Fun Things, wondered what I needed them for     



Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite and 64.5 in. Falcon Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 03, 2013, 02:27 PM
Mike,

Thanks to your suggestions and guidance, the Little Hawk made with Cuben sail material, and just the right amount of reinforcements weighs only 1.0 gram.  Due to the strength and light weight of the Cuben material, I was able to make this a tough little kite.  It does float nicely, but can move like a rocket if you pull on the line.  Please note the Little Hawk has a wing span of only 12 in.  The sail loading for this Little Hawk is only 0.105 oz./sq.ft., which I believe is the about the same sail loading as the iFlite with the 20 in. wing span, based on available information about the iFlite kite.  I use an OHAUS Triple Beam Balance Scale to weigh all of my kites, where I can get to an accuracy of 0.05 grams.  I use a set of reference brass weights to confirm the accuracy of my scale around the weight of the kite.

Regarding Jon T.’s micro hollow tubes that are great, I use them in my Falcon (64.5 in. wing span) no/low wind soaring kite, which is a scaled down version of my Eagle (96 in. wing span) no/low wind soaring kite.  The attached picture is a Falcon that I just finished for a friend of the family, where he picked the colors.  This Falcon weighs 38.9 grams and has a sail loading of 0.316 oz./sq.ft.  I don’t have a picture of my Falcon, but I will take one and post it later.  As you would expect for me, it’s red, white and blue.  I use a 0.125 in. light carbon tube for the center spine, the 0.098 in. carbon tubes for the wing spars, and a 0.080 in. carbon tube for the spreader.  I also use 0.03 in. carbon rods as battens that slide within the two color seams, which run from the trailing edge to about half way up the sail.  The Falcon loves to soar and ride thermals on a light wind day.  I now have a selection of the micro tubes in stock to make the smaller version of my Rapere with a 30 in. wing span (Rapere-SM).  I also have the thicker wall 0.0125 in. carbon tubes in stock to make a higher wind version of the Rapere.

Thanks to the encouragement of the people on this Forum, I have completed 9 kite projects over the past few months, and have at least 2 under way in my work shop.  In the future, I do want to purchase more of the Cuben material and make a lighter version of my 24 in. Hawk and maybe a smaller version of my Falcon for indoor fun!

Thanks for the interest,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSY00wSGpCLUxyaEE)


Title: Doug Stout's 64.5 in. Falcon Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 05, 2013, 03:34 PM
Picture of my Falcon...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWTQ2bmhneWp6SGM)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 19, 2013, 02:00 PM
Fellow Kite Builders,

The updated plans and pictures for the Rapere are now at Post No. 72.

Enjoy,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWFZnb2hWNWlWVkE)


Title: Doug Stout's 30 in. Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 19, 2013, 02:01 PM
The attached picture is my Rapere-SM ready for reinforcements.  It will have a span of about 30 in.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSVzNJWXZJaHkzSE0)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 25, 2013, 05:06 PM
I finished the Rapere with the thick wall 1/8 in. carbon tubes.  One word to describe the kite.  Nice!   ;D  You can bounce a coin off of the rear sail.  It weighs 51.7 grams, balances the same as the lighter Rapere with the thin wall 1/8 in. carbon tubes, and glides/floats just like the lighter Rapere.  The weigh increase over the lighter Rapere is less than 4 grams.  Due to the stiffness of the thicker carbon tubes, I doubled the reinforcements at the tips of the rear sail, and double wrapped the associated connection lines.  Can't wait to get this kite out in a field with some wind!

I will be updating the Top View Plans this weekend to indicate the changes to the tips of the rear sail.  I also will post a new picture of the tip.  With this change, all 4 connection points on the rear sail have the double reinforcements (2 layers on the top and 2 layers on the bottom).  Also, I will be upgrading the tips of my lighter Rapere tonight, which took very little time to perform on the heavier Rapere.  The weight increase for the tip modification was only 0.2 grams and is well worth it.

I should have the smaller Rapere-SM finished and in the air by this weekend.  I will take some new pictures of my expanding Rapere family.  Time to go out and do some flying!

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere and Rapere-SM Canard Kites
Post by: Doug S on April 27, 2013, 06:39 PM
Spent a great afternoon at my local flying field with my Rapere family.  Wind speed changed enough (0 to 8 mph), which allowed me to fly the Rapere with the light frame, the Rapere with heavy frame and the Rapere-SM.  Had fun catching thermals on the field.  The following is a picture of my Rapere family at the field.

The newest member of my Rapere family is the Rapere-SM.  The Rapere-SM has a wing span of 30.5 in. and is 33 in. long.  It’s framed with 0.080 in. carbon tubes from Jon T. and weighs 21 grams.  It flys just like its bigger brother, is very response and just a lot of fun to fly.  If someone would like me to post the plans for the Rapere-SM, just let me know.  I have a working version of the plans that I used to build the kite, which I will update with the actual frame and line lengths.

I should be able to finish the minor tweaks to the Rapere plans tomorrow, as indicated in my prior post.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYndwdVRyWEVrd28)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere and Rapere-SM Canard Kites
Post by: Doug S on April 27, 2013, 06:40 PM
Side view of my Rapere family....

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSN1VIZGhuUlAxQTg)


Title: Updated Rapere Plans and Rapere-SM Plans
Post by: Doug S on April 28, 2013, 05:12 PM
Fellow Kite Builders,

The following links provide access to download the updated plans for my Rapere and Rapere-SM Canard Kites.  For the Rapere, the update includes the new double reinforced tip and loop length for the rear sail, minor loop length changes, and the rear angled securing line at the center of the leading edge of the rear sail.  The Rapere can be built with either the light or heavy wall 1/8 in. carbon tubes, which are indicated on the plans.  Due to the new double reinfored tip, there is no difference in the construction for the two kites, except for the thickness of the carbon tubes.  I also included a six panel version of the Rapere, just like the Rapere-SM.  The Rapere-SM plans are new.  I have constructed and have been flying all three version of the Rapere, which are a joy to fly.  The attached picture shows a view of the Rapere (Light Frame), Rapere-SM, and Rapere (Heavy Frame), from left to right.  If you choose to download any of the plans, all that I ask in return for all of my efforts is that you make a donation to Steve Hall for this great GWTW Forum.  Thank you in advance for your generosity.

Rapere (Light and Heavy wall frame):

•   DKS Rapere - Top View Plan (Updated April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjV1MXVXcWUybzQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjV1MXVXcWUybzQ/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere - Side View Plan (Updated April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMzVhRVI2OEhzVTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMzVhRVI2OEhzVTA/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere - Template Plan - 14 Panels (Design - Updated Title Block April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVjVZbkJYVzJ6NnM/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVjVZbkJYVzJ6NnM/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere - Template Plan - 6 Panels (New April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRllZcWx2ZVNvQzA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRllZcWx2ZVNvQzA/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere - Template Plan - 4 Panels (Updated Title Block April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNXVtZnZsZ291YzA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNXVtZnZsZ291YzA/edit?usp=sharing)

Rapere-SM:

•   DKS Rapere-SM - Top View Plan (New April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb0ZDSkozYzEtdFk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb0ZDSkozYzEtdFk/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere-SM - Side View Plan (New April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZU5OQ1JNdU9wRVE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZU5OQ1JNdU9wRVE/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere-SM  - Template Plan - 6 Panels (Design - New April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWFJ5YkxKU0RBQTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWFJ5YkxKU0RBQTA/edit?usp=sharing)

•   DKS Rapere-SM - Template Plan - 4 Panels (New April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMXdIaExqei1YZ28/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMXdIaExqei1YZ28/edit?usp=sharing)

DKS Rapere - Updated Pictures to assist in Construction:
•   Bottom View:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRmlPM0FrWlpZRmM/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRmlPM0FrWlpZRmM/view?usp=sharing)
•   Angled View:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa0M5NjhwNTRhTW8/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa0M5NjhwNTRhTW8/view?usp=sharing)
•   Right Side View of Nose:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRzBSZjJJYklrMzQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRzBSZjJJYklrMzQ/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Right Side View of Mid-Section (Updated April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScElKc0dpcW4yLU0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScElKc0dpcW4yLU0/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Back View of Main (Rear) Sail Right Tip (Updated April 28, 2013):  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbzRLbFBGNkdnWTQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbzRLbFBGNkdnWTQ/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Back View of Tail:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdHZUS1I2VTdxaE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdHZUS1I2VTdxaE0/edit?usp=sharing)

If you should have any questions, just send me a message.  Please post and let me know your experience with the Rapere.  Thank you.

Enjoy,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSa0M5NjhwNTRhTW8)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYldIVkR5aW1LLTg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 24, 2013, 02:11 PM
Mike,

Thanks to your suggestions and guidance, the Little Hawk made with Cuben sail material, and just the right amount of reinforcements weighs only 1.0 gram.  Due to the strength and light weight of the Cuben material, I was able to make this a tough little kite.  It does float nicely, but can move like a rocket if you pull on the line.  Please note the Little Hawk has a wing span of only 12 in.  The sail loading for this Little Hawk is only 0.105 oz./sq.ft., which I believe is the about the same sail loading as the iFlite with the 20 in. wing span, based on available information about the iFlite kite. 

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k2JL3bCtq28/UZ_KJ2t_fYI/AAAAAAAAeRs/WIe7uxM13Jk/s576/2013-05-24_16-13-21_898.jpg)
The little hawk is a cool looking fun little kite....

Have to play more with the adjustments! (spine tension and bridle)

Set up a little like an urban ninja.....faster than an iFlite....more durable than an iFlite too....

I am finding it a bit nose heavy so the glide is not that long but that might be something that can get tuned out too...

All in all a great addition to the fleet!!!



Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on May 24, 2013, 04:46 PM
Thief,

I am glad to hear the Hawk arrived.  Regarding trimming, adjust the line along the center spine so the rear mark is just touching the rear portion of the center spin.  This will flatten the sail and make the Hawk float more, but it will be very sensitive to side line drag.  If you pull this center line so the front mark touches the center spine, the sail will have more of a curve, the glide will be more stable, but it will glide much faster.

Fly the Hawk using very light Spectra, since line drag has a lot of impact on this little 1.0 gram kite, and will pull the nose down.  I use 5 to 10 lb. spectra.  Also due to its small size, you need to use a very light touch on the line.  Aggressive line inputs make the kite zoom like a fighter kite.  To launch, just hold the tail between your fingers and toss it gently like a paper airplane.  I balanced the kite so that it would glide very easily with no line tension.  If you want more of a stall in the glide, just remove the center spine out of the end cap at the nose and trim the end cap back an 1/8 in.  You can also fly it outside in winds up to 5 mph with no problems.  This is a strong little kite that can take a beating.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 25, 2013, 08:14 AM
Hey Doug:
I am going to put some more time on the Hawk today...got some young family members who were looking to fly kites but since it is raining........the indoor kites come out....so....that means i get more time to fly too!

it is a stout little one! Love it!!!!!


Title: Doug Stout's 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on May 30, 2013, 11:42 AM
Thief,

Let me know how your trimming efforts turn out.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Stunt Kite
Post by: Doug S on May 30, 2013, 12:15 PM
For those who are interested, I am experimenting with a novel concept.  A canard stunt kite.  Since I like the shape of the Rapere, I used my Geokite program to alter the 3D shape of the two sails to provide the typical stunt kite sail cut, with an angled depth from the nose to the trailing edge on each side of the center spine.  As a starting point, the angled sail depth will be 20 degrees.  The prototype will have a wing span of 48 inches and an overall height of 48 inches.  The upper and lower sails will be on the same plane along the center spine and each angled sail depth.  Drafting the kite in AutoCAD using the 3D features was interesting.  The sail material paper templates are done.  Will have fun figuring out how to frame this unique kite.

This kite is on hold at this time.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 30, 2013, 02:50 PM
Great idea, I think it could be a winner for a speed kite.
   Mike


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite - For ACS Relay for Life Event
Post by: Doug S on June 02, 2013, 01:13 PM
Next weekend in our American Cancer Society's Relay for Life event at Mt. Olive High School, in New Jersey.  My wife is a 6 year breast cancer survivor.  I am in the process of making a Rapere for the event in the Relay for Life colors:  purple, blue and red.  Hope to have it done in time.

A couple years ago I made one of my Eagles for the event, which you can see in the attached picture.  The pink ribbon is an appliqué.  The weather was just right last year, where I flew this Eagle in the middle of the night above the walking track.

Doug

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Doug Stout's Kites at ACS Relay for Life Event
Post by: Doug S on June 10, 2013, 05:54 AM
Attended the American Cancer Society's Relay for Life event at Mt. Olive High School in New Jersey on Saturday, June 8, 2013.  The event was held inside due to the weather.  The main area was in the gym, with other activities in the lobby.  The following picture is part of my family’s team area in the lobby with two of my Relay for Life kites.  My family has been actively involved in this event for six years, since my wife’s diagnosis, surgery and recovery from breast cancer.  I did finish a 6 Panel Rapere in the Relay for Life colors of purple, blue and red.  There are white 1/8 in. pin stripes between the panels to break up the colors.  With the applique and pin stripes, the Rapere weights 49.3 grams.  The kite is actually very eye-catching in the day light and was a big hit with the event staff.  I will take a better picture and post it when the weather behaves in the northeast.

I brought along an iFlite that I flew for several hours in the lobby of the High School.  The kite was a huge hit with the attending children and parents.  I even taught several children how to fly the iFlite.  Due to the low ceiling in the lobby and the packed gym, I could not fly any of the Raperes indoors.  Did have a few of the children toss the Rapere in the picture like a paper airplane, which was quite entertaining to them and the attending parents.  Still working on trimming my 12 in. Hawk indoor kite.  Changed the center spine from a 0.03 in. to 0.02 in. carbon rod and induced a little bow in the spine.

In closing, if you are aware of a Relay for Life event in your area, by all means, please sign-up for a team, attend and contribute your time.  It’s a pleasure to share the joy of kiting to this great group of people.

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdmpOMWo4Zl9YZWc)


Title: Doug Stout's update to 12 in. Hawk Kite
Post by: Doug S on June 16, 2013, 10:20 AM
Happy Fathers Day!

Made a few minor adjustments to the Cuben Hawk.  Trimmed 1/8 in. from the nose cap and changed the center spine from 0.03 in. to 0:02 in. carbon did the trick.

Just receive more 0.33 Cuben.  I have two new ultra light projects to start.  Will post pictures in the future.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on June 22, 2013, 03:15 PM
Well Doug... after weeks of forgetting to pack it in my kite bag, I finally remembered to bring the Rapere on an outing.  What a blast!  It took me a good 30 minutes or so to dial in the adjustments on the bridle, but once it was in the sweet spot I couldn't stop flying this awesome kite.  I saw no less than a dozen people trying to fly their SLKs without success.  One guy even said "if that guy can do it, we have to be able to get this thing to fly" (comparing my excellent Rapere to his plastic convenient store eddy... at least they were out trying).  Anyway, for my first glider style kite I can't say how pleased I am.  I think I'll make a second one with the slightly heavier frame (I noticed when the wind picked up to around 2mph the Rapere that I have pulse some... I think I could fly in slightly wider wind range with the heavier frame. 

Here's a pic I snapped with my phone:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P9llcSt3FHM/UcYf69jZohI/AAAAAAAABmg/aZbmHR_RY6c/w601-h801-no/Rapere+in+flight)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: tpatter on June 22, 2013, 05:31 PM
Nice flying!  I think you were having more fun than anyone else on the hill today!  :). Nice glider, the best I've seen.


Title: Rapere Trim Suggestions
Post by: Doug S on June 22, 2013, 05:35 PM
sugarbaker,

Thank you for the feedback and I am glad you are having fun with the Rapere!  It is a very addicting kite and has a place when the wind is very light to nonexistent.  To help you, I have some trimming and flying suggestions:

1.  Make sure there is camber (curved sail) in the rear sail.  Just move the front line back until there is a decent camber.  When assembled, place a ruler under the rear sail along the center, from front to rear, and the sail surface about 1/3 the way back from the front should be about 1 ¼ to 1 3/8 inches above the ruler.  Too tight and it will not glide.  Too loose and there will be wrinkles in the sail along the center camber.

2.  With all of the nose weight, the Rapere will glide fast.  Remove the 3 in. piece and it will float more.  If you remove some of the nose weight, you will need to move the bridle line connection point back because you moved the center of gravity back.

3.  With all of the nose weight and no flying line, toss the Rapere like a paper airplane and it should glide for about 20 to 30 feet, with a very slight nose up angle.  If it stalls (nose up), add more camber to the rear sail.  At the end of the glide, it should hover into a very gentle landing.

4.  The bridle at the indicated mark makes the Rapere hot on the flying line, but very response to turns.  Move it back and it will fly more like a gentle single line kite, but be more resistant to input for turns.  With the line connected, I toss mine downwind like a paper airplane.  When it’s about 1 foot from the ground, I add a little drag to the line and the Rapere will turn.  I then pull the line in for the Rapere to climb.  Once at the top of the climb, just let the line loose, and the Rapere will soar and hunt, changing direction with every little puff of wind.

5.  The frame gets overloaded in 3 to 4 mph winds and the rear sail will dump the air and recover, causing it to pulse.  Too much wind and the Rapere will spin.  Remember, there is usually a wind gradient on the field, with stronger winds the higher you go up.  My Rapere with the thicker wall 1/8 in. frame fly’s great and can handle about 2 mph more wind than the one with the thin wall tubes.  The weight increase for me was only 3.9 grams (8.2 %).  Just remember to add the extra layers of reinforcements to the attachment points for the 4 locations on the rear sail, and the nose of the front sail, which is indicated in the updated version of the plan top view.  It did this on both versions of my Rapere.

By the way, the smaller version the Rapere is just as much fun to fly, and with only 6 panels, it’s faster to build.

Thank you again and please keep posting you experience,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on June 23, 2013, 07:55 AM
What you describe is pretty much identical to my experience yesterday. (Though I achieved my results by trial and error).  I think I might build a small rapere, but my first priority is to fly the one I have on longer line... I only had about 70 feet when I was at the field yesterday.  Thanks again, and I'll just add another plug to anyone on the fence about building on; it is a challenging kite to build that yields excellent reward and fun!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on June 23, 2013, 01:42 PM
so, todays experience was fun, but I stumbled on to something new.  There was no wind and yet the Rapere would only just sit in place... rather than glide forward when I put slack on the line (keep in mind I reassembled the kite and lost some of the settings I had tuned in yesterday).  The other odd character was that when I had tension on the line to help the kite climb, it would swing back and forth... unlike yesterday in which it would climb with a pretty direct heading and then come to a glide when I let some slack into the line.  Any thoughts?  Perhaps I had too much camber in the rear sail?  I had to re-tie the bridle tow point as the prusik was coming unlocked and slipping.  I retied it with a triple loop prusik and that seemed to fix the problem.  Thanks for your thoughts!  (I still love this thing!)


Title: Rapere Trim Suggestions
Post by: Doug S on June 23, 2013, 04:10 PM
sugarbaker,

Check the glide without the flying line. If you have the front adjustment on the rear sail too tight, the angle between the front and rear sails becomes too much, which will prevent a reasonable glide.  Without the spreader installed at the tips of the rear sail, the center of the rear sail should have almost no tension between the front and rear of the sail connection points.

Once you have gotten the glide adjusted, then add the flying line.  If it's swinging on the line (going left and right), then move the tow point back a little.

Let me know if that works,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on June 23, 2013, 04:19 PM
I'll give it a shot the next time I'm out.  Thanks!


Title: Rapere Trimming
Post by: Doug S on June 23, 2013, 05:44 PM
Please note the Rapere is very sensitive to changes in wind and turbulence, due to the low dihedral angle in the rear sail.  This allows it to be very responsive.  If it starts to weave on the climb, just go lighter and be smooth on the pull.

Just flew the smaller Rapere in my front yard in turbulent air.  That was entertaining!  I moved the tow point back with a light touched, and that worked.  The smaller Rapere also flys great with only a 2 in. length of nose weight and a rearward tow point.

Just tinker with the glide in your yard or a small field.

Doug


Title: Rapere Suggested Trimming Steps
Post by: Doug S on June 24, 2013, 07:44 AM
sugarbaker,

After sleeping on your trimming challenges, several things come to mind.  The Rapere is a very efficient, sensitive and balance glider kite, which when trimmed for the weather conditions will perform extremely well.  Unlike other conventional kites, the initial trimming has to be done in a certain order, which I came to realize through trial and error with my prototypes to determine the appropriate lengths for all of the connecting lines.  To help you through this painful learning curve, I offer the following results from my efforts:

After building several Raperes, I have come to realize that when we make the holes in the reinforcements for the connections lines, each location is very critical regarding the distance between the center of the hole and the edge of the sail.  This is because the connection lines that are under a bit of tension are doubled around the sail ends, which can drastically alter the length of each line, if the hole location is moved slightly inward or outward.  When I redid and doubled the reinforcements on the prototype, I moved the holes inward to the locations indicated on the plans.  I had to lengthen all of the connection lines, as indicated on the locations on the latest top view plan.  If yours are slightly different that’s not a big deal, just alter the length of the lines.  There is nothing magical about the line lengths, other than a means to set the angle between the two sails and make sure the leading and trailing edges of the front sail are under the same tension.  To perform the initial trimming of the Rapere, the following is what works for me:

1.    Before installing the spreader, make sure the center of the rear sail is just loose enough so there is minimal tension on the front and rear connecting lines.  You should be able to slide your hand between center spine and the rear sail.  This will set the rear sail angle for the next step.  When I have my Rapere dialed in, I find the rear sail in this condition when I roll up the kite to put the kite away.

2.   Install the spreader and take a look at the angle between the center line of the front sail and the center line of the rear sail called the decalage angle.  There should be a 4 degree difference.  With the fixed length center spine of 48 in., we adjust the length of the front sail front line to adjust this angle.  Don’t touch the front adjustment on the rear sail at this time.  A slightly shorter line at the very front of the kite produces more center spine bow, which will cause a greater decalage angle between the sails.  This causes the kite to float and have a steep glide slope, like a passenger jet landing at an airport.  Too much angle and the kite will stall and not glide.  A slightly longer line at the very front of the kite produces less center spine bow, which will cause less of an angle between the sails.  This causes the kite to fly faster and have a longer gradual glide slope.  Too little an angle will cause the kite to dive into the ground.  When you get the angle correct, the leading edge and trailing edge of the front sail also should have about the same tension.  If the front sail trailing edge is too tight, the leading edge will sag, which is what we don’t want.  Please use the top and side view plans as a point of reference to check the lengths of the connecting lines at the tips for each sail.  If your front sail length at the tips is slightly different than the plans that’s not a big deal, just adjust the length of the front sail tip connecting lines.

3.   Once the angle between the two sails is close, it is time to hand toss the kite with all of the nose weight, but without the flying line.  You can do this in a small yard or field, preferably with no wind.  At this time you can now move the rear sail front line to fine tune the kite.  At the setting in Step No. 1, you should have about 1 1/4 in. of camber in the center of the rear sail.  When you move the rear sail front line forward a small amount, this will produce a little more decalage angle, but reduce the camber in the rear sail.  This adjustment causes two changes at once, being the decalage angle between the sails and the amount of lift generated by the camber in the center of the rear sail.  Please note the second set of connecting lines at the front of the rear sail should be just taught enough so there is no slack in these lines.  When you get the kite dialed in, it should glide like a slow moving paper airplane, and then come to a gentle landing.  I have been flying my Raperes lately with the higher camber in the rear sail that lets the Rapere fly more slowly, which is a great setting for smooth light or calm wind conditions.  At this setting when I hand toss the kite, it glides for about 20 to 30 feet, slows to a stop and hovers at the landing.

4.   Once you get the Rapere dialed in, you can make a few adjustments at the field that will allow you to fine tune the Rapere to the weather conditions.  Unlike conventional aircraft where moving the center of gravity forward provides more stability, our canard tethered kites are more forgiving and fly slower when we move the center of gravity and bridle connection point slightly to the rear.  When I fly in my front yard in the evening, this is the setting I use.  In turbulent air, the Rapere will telegraph the conditions to you, which can be very entertaining.  All of the nose weight and less camber helps it penetrate these conditions.  When you have a slight breeze like your first day, using all of the nose weight with less camber is fun on about 300 feet of line, where the Rapere can hunt and cover a lot of ground.

Please keep me posted on your trimming efforts.  Whatever settings give you the desired performance is all that matters.

Thank you again for building one of my Raperes,

Doug

P.S.  In trimming a canard kite like the Rapere, there is a balance between decalage angle between the sails, center of gravity, and camber in the center of the rear sail.  When you increase the decalage angle, you need to add more nose weight to move the center of gravity forward to compensate.  When you decrease the decalage angle, you need to remove some of the nose weight to move the center of gravity to the rear to compensate.  I use the 9 in. length of nose weight and trim for a long flat glide.  This setup provides the most balance configuration over the range of wind speeds the Rapere can handle.  Once I have this accomplished, I fine tune the camber in the rear sail.  On a hard hand toss, the camber in the rear sail lifts the back of the Rapere up for a nice glide.  Once the Rapere starts to slow down, the Rapere will rotate the nose up slightly and start to float.  If there is too much decalage angle, the Rapere will nose up under a hard hand toss.  After you get your Rapere dialed in, then play with removing a small amount of the nose weight and moving the bridle connection point back about 1/4 to 1/2 inches.  As you have found out, the Rapere is quite a performer when dialed in.  My goal in designing the Rapere was to maximize the sail area for this size kite to reduce the sail loading, while providing a kite that is responsive to the wind.  The type of assembly I am using allows for many adjustments, which is a great deal of fun for this old engineer.  I learn something new every time I put a Rapere in the air.  Enjoy!


Title: Doug Stout's Relay for Life Rapere Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on June 29, 2013, 11:06 AM
The following provides better pictures of my Rapere that I made with the American Cancer Society Relay for Life colors.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaE1ybVhtbV9KQUU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdlpJcGNURnU1czA)


Title: Doug Stout's New Cuben Kites
Post by: Doug S on June 30, 2013, 06:39 PM
Now to have some fun with my new 0.33 Cuben material.  The attached picture shows the templates, with the Cuben material cut out on top, for three new no/low wind kites.  The kite in the lower left is a 16 in. wing span version of my Hawk.  I call the kite in the top middle a Falcon (now called the Swift), which has a 16 in. wing span and a sail shape that is roughly a GNU Porta Hang Glider.  The GNU Porta Hang Glider has a straight leading edge and three straight sections for the trailing edge.  I added a curve to the leading and trailing edges.  I am experimenting with sail shape and the location of the spreader.  For the Swift, I moved the spreader to the quarter chord of the root (center) of the sail.  The 16 in. Hawk will be my control kite for the Swift.  The two templates on the right are a 16 in. wing span version of my Rapere Canard kite.  I just couldn't resist in trying to build a very small Rapere.

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScjE0OGV2c2h3cVk)


Title: Doug Stout's New Cuben Kites
Post by: Doug S on July 07, 2013, 05:50 PM
I was able to finish two of my new Cuben Kites this weekend.  The following provides a picture of my 12 in. Hawk (top) as a point of reference, the new 16 in. Hawk (lower left), and the new 16 in. Swift (lower right, renamed from Falcon).  The 16 in. Hawk has a sail area of 87 sq.in., weighs only 1.5 grams, with a sail loading of 0.088 oz./sq.ft.  The Swift has a sail area of 81 sq.in. weighs only 1.4 grams, with a sail loading of 0.087 oz./sq.ft.  Both kites are about 17% lighter than my 12 in. Hawk (0.105 oz./sq.ft.).  The 16. in Hawk and 16. in. Swift are framed with 0.02 carbon rods.  With a wing span of 16 in., the 0.02 carbon rods are about as light as I dare go for stiffness, especially with the center spine, and are a good match with the stiff 0.33 Cuben material.

I test flew both of them on Sunday evening, and they are very nice floater/gliders.  They both are rugged, but not as stiff as the 12 in. Hawk, which is what I was looking for.  Currently, the 16 in. Hawk has a slight edge in performance, but I am still in the trimming phase.  If the weather allows, I will be performing some minor trim changes this week to optimize both designs.  Great kites to fly indoors or in very light air in your yard.  If someone wants me to post the plans, just let me know.  Just way too much fun!

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSLUVPUkg5NjRsRWc)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on July 07, 2013, 06:36 PM
Have been watching your posting with interest and recently got some of this fabric.  What have you found is the best thread and such to work with this material?  I'm a new kite maker and haven't tried anything "exotic" like this yet but want to give it a go on a glider style kite.  Maybe an Urban Ninja.

Thanks in advance -
NWFlyer


Title: Suggestions for First Glider Build
Post by: Doug S on July 08, 2013, 06:15 AM
NW Flyer,

Thank you for your interest and welcome to the fun of no/low wind glider kites.  Regarding what type of thread, I would use a quality polyester thread as indicated in Gary Engvall's Kite Sewing 101.  The link is provided below, which I cut and pasted from the GWTW Links to Techniques Topic Page:  http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=105.0. (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=105.0.)

Kite Sewing 101:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZE5mVGcxdkViYUk/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZE5mVGcxdkViYUk/view?usp=sharing) 

Gary and I are from the Northeast, and his tips are great!  Gary and I go way back, and he has forgotten more about sewing than I have learned.

For my small kites, such as the Hawk and Swift, I have no problems using a quality polyester thread.  I just drop down one needle size for the Cuben material.  I have found that the thread you can purchase at a fabric store just doesn’t hold up and frays during stitching, especially in the reinforcement areas.  If you can easily break the thread with your hands, don’t use it on kites.  The only time I use the fabric store thread is when I apply a single layer applique, such as on my Rapere-RFL Canard and Eagle-RFL kites.  If this is your first build, I would not start off with 0.33 Cuben material.  It’s very delicate and requires careful handling.  The 0.33 Cuben, which is the lightest Cuben I have found, is like working with reinforced plastic wrap.

Most kites are designed around a certain type of fabric, and the Urban Ninja is such a kite where Thomas Horvath suggests using ripstop polyester (PC-31).  Early in my no/low wind kite adventure, I built three Urban Ninjas.  It’s a great kite to learn how to build your first no/low wind kite.  The top and bottom panels have a cut at the joining seams, which assist in providing the bow in the sail along the center spine.  This bow makes it spin like a Fighter Kite, but dampens out a long glide.  If you are set on using the 0.33 Cuben material on an Urban Ninja, you may need to join your panels together with double sided tape.  This is because there is a bit of tension on the sail material with this design.  Please note that you get only one shot to line things up with double sided tape.  The Cuben material is too fragile for any realignment.  If you go with PC-31, my recommendation is to also sew the reinforcements, such as at the nose, tips and tail, where there is a constant pressure when the kite is assembled.  I use small amounts of double sided tape to hold things in place, and then stitch.  If find that seams with just double sided tape slip through time and are a dirt/sand magnet.  If memory serves me correctly, the Urban Ninja is framed with 0.125 in. carbon tubes.  Jon T. has this carbon tube in two difference wall thicknesses.  I would suggest using the thinner wall.

Just my thoughts,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on July 08, 2013, 06:22 PM
Doug:
Thanks for the reply and all that good information.  I have now made 7 or 8 kites that have gotten progressively better and that has me thinking of trying a glider style kite.  I was intrigued by the new fabric and probably should save that for down the line and make a good RSN glider as a 1st attempt before I tackle the "flimsy" stuff.

I've been through the "101" material and number of the NW kite making workshops but my ambitions probably exceed my skills at the moment.  Anyway, I've read your postings with strong interest and I'll tackle a Cuben glider before too long.  Thanks again, NWFlyer.


Title: Suggestions for First Glider Build
Post by: Doug S on July 08, 2013, 07:46 PM
NWFlyer,

Thank you for informing me about your level of kite building experience.  It's time to jump in and enjoy the glider fun.  The following provides some questions that will help you select a type of glider kite design:

•   What size kite are you interested in?
•   Do you want a floater, one that covers a little ground, or both?
•   Do you want to fly it only indoors, only outdoors, or have the ability to do both?
•   Do you want a single sail or a canard?

I have designed and built glider kites with wing spans ranging from 12 in. to 8 feet, with the smaller kites using Cuben and the larger kites using PC-31.  If you are interested, I may have a design that would be good for your first build.  Just let me know if you are interested.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on July 08, 2013, 10:11 PM
Doug:
Man, you are going to be sick of me if you keep replying to my posts that quickly !.

As for my first glider - I'd like to make something on the order of 1 3-4 ft. wing span, pretty much exclusively for outdoor flying.  I'm not into indoor flying particularly, and part of my motivation stems from a background with balsa wood gliders and tissue covered/rubber powered plans that I fly with my Father.  We each have a Horvath glider that we both really enjoy flying and that was why I was thinking an Urban Ninja would be a good one to start with.  They float and glide nicely and are really relaxing on a low wind day.

I've slowly accumulated a nice stock of fabric including getting some Icarex just recently.  I also have a good selection of 3/4 oz. RSN, and a little bit of AirX 600.  I doubt I have any of the lightweight framing or fittings needed and will have to get those regardless of what I make.

So, with that, would you suggest something other than a Ninja or is that a good one to tackle for a first attempt?
Thanks in advance,
NWFlyer


Title: Suggestions for first Glider Build
Post by: Doug S on July 09, 2013, 08:07 AM
NWFlyer,

I would never get sick of questions from an enthusiastic kite flyer.  That’s great to hear you and your Dad are model airplane flyers.  I flew control line precision aerobatics in the 1960s-1970s and RC sailplanes in the 1980s.  My allergy to balsa dust was just too much for me to deal with.  It was easy for me to transition into stunt kites in the 1990s.  About three years ago, I got tired of waiting for the right wind conditions to fly my stunt kites of various weights.  That’s when I got hooked on the glider kites.  Now I design and build glider kites to fit the light wind conditions for where I live, so I can fly almost anytime I want to.  Originally, I build larger high aspect ratio glider kites (Osprey at 8 ft., Eagle at 8 ft. and Falcon at 64.5 in.) to fly and chase thermals at our local sports field complex (20 acres).  My recent endeavors (Hawk of various sizes and the Swift) allow me to fly after work right in my front yard (65 ft. x 50 ft.), which flying area is best suited for small wing span, low aspect ratio glider kites.  My Rapere Canard kites (42 and 30 in.) fly well at both locations.

Which Horvath kite do you have so we can see what type glider you are used to?  You want to size the glider kite for the size field that is available to you.  Low aspect ratio kites, such as Thomas Horvath’s Urban Ninja, my Hawks and Swift, have aspect ratios [(wing span x wing span)/sail area] less than 3 to 1.  They have more sail area for a given wing span, that allow for a slower flying speed (float) when trimmed correctly, and are very responsive.  With a low aspect ratio configuration, you can build a kite with a very low sail loading (mass/sail area), which further reduces the flying speed.  If you are looking to cover ground, go hunting and chase thermals, then high aspect ratio kites are the way to go.  Kites such as Thomas Horvath’s Long Way Home, my Osprey, Eagle and Falcon, have aspect ratios greater than 6 to 1, are very efficient for gliding, have a faster flying speed, but need space to fly and turn.

If you are flying only outdoors in a normal size sports field to fly at (2 acres), then 3 to 4 foot wing span kite should work for you, and the Urban Ninja with a wing span of 53.5 in. would be a good kite to start with.  A scaled up version of my Hawk also would be a great kite, but I wouldn’t offer the plans until I built one myself.  Regarding sail loading, I built my Urban Ninjas a little heavy at 60 oz. using PC-31 and extra reinforcements, which equates to 0.286 oz./sq.ft.  As a point of reference, my Eagle and Falcon are also made using PC-31 and have sail loadings of 0.365 and 0.310 oz./sq.ft., respectively.  These sail loadings may seem a little high, but these kites are very efficient with their high aspect sails.  This sail loading equates to higher flying speeds, which helps them cut through the light turbulent air associated with thermals.  As indicated in a previous post, I have been able to reduce sail loading to as low as 0.088 oz./sq.ft. for my 16 in. Hawk.  The major portion of the weight savings was due to using the 0.33 Cuben fabric.  Based on my measurements, the 0.33 Cuben fabric is only 37% of the weight of PC-31.  This allowed me to build my 12 in. and 16 in. Hawks light and rugged.  If it’s your desire to fly in light winds, then I would use the PC-31 or similar type of fabric.  Plus, you have a selection of colors to choose from.  If you are looking to fly primarily in no wind conditions, then I would use one of the lighter Cuben fabrics, which are offered in different weights.  Unfortunately, the Cuben fabric is offer in very limited and bland colors.  Regarding carbon tubes, I built my Urban Ninjas with the light wall 0.125 carbon tubes.  If you decide to go with the very light fabric, you also want to reduce the weight of the frame.  Jon T. has some smaller diameter carbon tubes (0.08 and 0.098 in.), which I used in my 64.5 in. Falcon and my 30 in. Rapere.  The Falcon weights 38.1 grams and was built with a thin wall 0.125 in. center spine, 0.098 in. wing spars, and a 0.08 in spreader.  The 30 in. Rapere weighs 21 grams and was built with the 0.08 in. carbon tubes.

In closing, you may want to build your first Unban Ninja using PC-31 and the thin wall 0.125 in. carbon tubes.  If you want to build a second lighter version, you may want to use a fabric like Cuben, and lighter carbon tubes for the wing spars and spreader.

Just my thoughts,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on July 09, 2013, 08:29 PM
Doug:

Again, thanks for all the good information.  Sounds like you've really zeroed in on these types of kites.  Right now, I have to say I like all kinds !!

Dad and I each have Horvath C'Est La Vie kites and Dad liked his so much he had me get him a Line a Rolling Stone" kite to give you a sense of what we're use to.  We both fly in large enough areas that space isn't a limitation (within reason) so a kite that's 4-5 ft. wing span (or smaller) sounds right.  For now, a lower aspect ratio kite sounds like the way to go, although eventually, I've got to try making a multi-wing surface glider like a Canard.

Unless you'd advise me not to, I think start with a Ninja to get some more practice on nice straight seams and edge binding and I'll try making it out of Icarex since I have yet to make anything with that and am itching to try it.  Who do you like to order small tubes and parts from?  Horvath and others seem to make their own fittings to get some really nice small fittings.  I've found it surprising how hard it is get kite making materials in my fledgling "career".

One question I've wondered about (among many) has to do with applique and for something like a Ninja whether you'd recommend doing some applique after you've sewed up the center seams or before?  I can convince myself of doing it both ways.  I'm concerned about getting a "lumpy" or puckered sail.

Thanks again, Doug.  Really appreciate your advice.
NWFlyer



Title: Suggestions on First Glider Build
Post by: Doug S on July 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
NWFlyer,

The Thomas Horvath kite that you are flying (c'est la vie) and the one you got for your Dad (like a rolling stone) have an aspect ratio of about 6.25 to 1, which is much higher than the Urban Ninja at about 2.61 to 1.  The two models of the Horvath Kites you are flying are smaller versions of his “long way home”.  When you compare these kites to the urban ninja, you will find that the urban ninja will most likely fly in lighter air, be more responsive, fly slower, but not cover as much ground.

I agree that you should begin your glider building endeavors by building the urban ninja, so that you can see how to build this type of kite.  For your information, all I do is straight stitching because it’s stronger, lighter and that’s all my old Singer sewing machine is capable of.  Someday I will pick up a higher end used machine with more features.  Just take your time when sewing the straight stitches.  I use pinstripe tape on the table of my sewing machine, at a distance of 3/16 and 1/4 inches from the needle, which I use as one of my guides for the seams.  The attached picture is of my first urban ninja.

Regarding materials, I purchase most of my materials from Jon and Marieanne Trennepohl
at: http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/. (http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/.)  They have the carbon tubes and fittings that you will need.  If they don’t have it, they most likely can get it for you.  There are other sources for materials, with links along the right side of this great Forum.

Regarding your question about applique, my recommendation is not to bother at this time.  The urban ninja can be made with three different colors, which should provide you with more than enough personal variation.  A glider is a performance kite and an applique just adds unnecessary weight due to additional material and thread.  For example, the 14 panel version of my Rapere weights 47.8 grams.  The 6 panel version of my Rapere with the ribbon applique for American Cancer Society Relay for Life event weighs 49.3 grams.  That is 1.5 grams more for a 6 panel kite that has many less seams than the 14 panel kite.

When I do make a special event kite with an applique, I add it after the panels are all sewn together.  I carefully hold the applique in place with many small strips of blue masking tape, and then remove each piece of masking tape when I get to it during the sewing process.  I have tried double sided tape and glue stick techniques, but didn’t like the finished appearance.  The additional pictures of the Rapere-RFL (with the ribbon) provided in a previous post has a new rear sail for this reason.  The original rear sail is hanging in my work shop as a reminder not to do it that way again.  I did use a glue stick for the 1/8 in. white stripes that separate the panels, since I couldn’t figure out another way to do this and make the lines straight.

After you build and fly your urban ninja, let me know which style of glider kites you like better (low aspect ratio vs. high aspect ratio).  I draft all of my kites in AutoCAD and if you like, I can send you a PDF of the full size plans for one of my designs that may be to your liking.  Welcome to the addiction of glider kites!

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaE1ybVhtbV9KQUU)


Title: Light Wind Kite Heaven!
Post by: Doug S on July 10, 2013, 06:28 PM
I am in Light Wind Kite Heaven!  Flew my 16 in. Hawak and 16. in. Swift again in my front yard tonight (7:30 to 8:30 p.m. EST) to trim them out.  Used my iFlite as a point of reference.  The wind was calm, with a very slight wind cycling through due to evening thermals.  The cycle of lift was about every 5 minutes.  Temperature was in the low 80s.  Please note that I live inland and not near the shore.  I rotated using each of the three kites to fly them in the various air conditions.  I used 10 lb. spectra line and my flying area is about 65 ft. x 50 ft.

The iFlite flew well as it does indoors.  I was able to get the iFlite to about 15 to 20 feet, but it just wanted to fly mostly in a stable straight line, and not turn with the lifting air.  It actually flew through or turn away from the lifting air a few times.  My 16 in. Swift handle the air conditions better.  I was able to get my 16 in. Swift to about 20 to 25 feet, it was feeling the changes in the air currents and turning with it.  Then there was my 16 in. Hawk.  The 16 in. Hawk climbed very well and road several thermals just like a small real Hawk.  It turned with the air currents, circled in the lifting air, and changed circling directions within the lifting air.  It was one of those mouth wide open moments!  I stopped the Hawk from climbing each time at about 40 to 50 feet, and pulled it forward and out of the lifting air so I didn’t lose it on the my roof or the surrounding trees.  It rode the down currents and glided between 5 and 15 feet until the next lifting air cycle arrived.

Just way too much fun for one hour of flying in the evening!  In conclusion, I am done trimming my 16 in. Hawk!

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on July 10, 2013, 06:51 PM
Doug:

Sounds like you had a nice session with your new kites.  It's always fun when everything comes together like that.

Thanks for confirming my plan of action and for the offer of plan on down the line.  That would be neat.

I'll get some framing and fitting materials coming to frame up a couple of Ninja's since I know I'll want to make more than one.  I'll forgo the notion of applique for these two and save that for a Rok or something else.  I've looked over the Kitebuilder forum that discussed the Ninja workshop session that provided some good information so I've got no excuse but to get after it it seems.  When I have made some progress worth talking about or run into a question I can't answer I'll get back with you. In  the meantime, enjoy your new kites.  They sound fun.

Thanks again,
NWFlyer


Title: Suggestions for First Glider Build
Post by: Doug S on July 10, 2013, 07:57 PM
NWFlyer,

Thank you for the kind words.  It's nice when things work out. 

Just let us know if you have any questions or get stuck at any point in building the urban ninja.  That's what this Forum is all about.  I can be of some help because I built three of them in the past.

Start building and enjoy the process!

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Hawks
Post by: Doug S on July 19, 2013, 08:02 AM
The following picture is of my family of Hawks made with the 0.33 Cuben fabric.  The one in the upper left has a wing span of 12 in., a sail area of 48 sq.in., weights 1.0 grams with a sail loading of 0.105 oz./sq.ft.  The one in the upper right has a wing span of 16 in., a sail area of 87 sq.in, weights 1.5 grams with a sail loading of 0.088 oz./sq.ft.  The upper two Hawks are framed with 0.02 in. carbon rods.

I just finished the large one in the center.  It has a wing span of 24 in., sail area of 193 sq.in., weights 3.5 grams with a sail loading of 0.092 oz./sq.ft.  This Hawk is framed with 0.03 in. carbon rods for the wing spars and spreader, with a 0.04 in. carbon rod for the center spine.  It had a 0.03 in carbon rod for the center spine, but it was too flexible.

The sweet spot for the center of gravity is with a static margin between 9 and 13 %.  I have one more size to try, which will have a wing span of 20 in. and will use 0.03 in carbon rods.

Now I just need for the heat to break up here in the northeast.  Can only fly for a short periods of time in this extreme heat.

Later,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSc0hST04yU18zMDA)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on July 19, 2013, 09:56 AM
Excellent work there Doug. Love them.


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Hawks
Post by: Doug S on July 20, 2013, 09:43 AM
ae,

Thank you for the compliment.  My favorite so far is the 16 in. for performance, which has a balance of spar stiffness, sail size and sail stiffness using the Cuben fabric.  I have a little flying time on the 24 in., which appears to be a big floater.  The 0.03 in. wing spars and spread may be just a little bit too flexible for the associated sail area.  The plans are done for the 20 in. version, which I will printout on Monday and begin construction.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ricmerry on July 20, 2013, 10:36 AM
Where are you buying your cuben Mark?
NWflyer: I'm not sure where you are located but in you are in the NW US try goodwinds.com in Mount Vernon WA for your carbon and fitting needs.


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Kites
Post by: Doug S on July 24, 2013, 06:19 AM
Dear Fellow Kite Builders,

I am finishing the 20 in. wing span version of my Cuben Hawk this week.  Once I am done, I will post the links to access the plans, pictures and construction directions for the following versions of my Hawk:

•   Hawk 12 in. Wing Span
•   Hawk 16 in. Wing Span
•   Hawk 20 in. Wing Span
•   Hawk 24 in. Wing Span

My next project will be a 48 in. wing span version of my Hawk made from PC-31.  The prototype will have 6 panels and use 4 colors.  The following provides the anticipated color layout.  I have drafted templates to make this size of the Hawk with 3, 4, 6 or 8 panels.  I love the way the Hawks fly and really wanted one with several colors in my no/low wind kite bag.  I also will finish my 17 in. wing span version of my Rapere.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTks2N25HSUp6WG8)


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Hawks - Updated Plans, Directions and Pictures
Post by: Doug S on July 26, 2013, 02:00 PM
Fellow Kite Builders,

The following links provide access to download the updated plans for my various size Hawks.  The updates are as indicated below:

•   16 in. Hawk Center Spine:  The correct diameter for the center spine carbon rod is a 0.02 in.
•   Line 2 for all of the 4 Hawks:  The distance from the end to the mark is 1 1/4 in.  This was missing on the 24 in. Hawk and not correct on the 12 and 16 in. Hawks.

The next link provides access to download the directions to build a Hawk.  The remaining links provide pictures of the 20 inch Hawk that I just completed, to assist in construction.  The last link and attached picture are of my 4 Hawks, stack up and ready to insert the spreaders for another day of flying.  If you choose to download any of the plans, all that I ask in return for all of my efforts is that you make a donation to Steve Hall for this great GWTW Forum.  Thank you in advance for your generosity.

Hawk Plans:
•   Hawk 12 inch Wing Span:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZm1LTU5ncGdaTGM/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZm1LTU5ncGdaTGM/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Hawk 16 inch Wing Span:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRWh0Z1VEVWgyRUk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSRWh0Z1VEVWgyRUk/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Hawk 20 inch Wing Span:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbG1xVm5ITHl2T3M/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbG1xVm5ITHl2T3M/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Hawk 24 inch Wing Span:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWl9XTkozZFpiR0U/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWl9XTkozZFpiR0U/edit?usp=sharing)

Hawk Directions:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb1hUb2hhWTVyUjQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb1hUb2hhWTVyUjQ/edit?usp=sharing)

Hawk 20 inch - Pictures to assist in Construction:
•   Front View:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNU1pMG1jaDN1SHc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNU1pMG1jaDN1SHc/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Back View:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTGRZcVd5dmtmUkE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTGRZcVd5dmtmUkE/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Nose View:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSOTRUcEpVOThHRW8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSOTRUcEpVOThHRW8/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Left Wing Spar/Spreader Connection View:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdURMVTg1OWxZSm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdURMVTg1OWxZSm8/edit?usp=sharing)
•   Tail View:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSemJtY2hTR2FmcHM/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSemJtY2hTR2FmcHM/edit?usp=sharing)

Hawks 12, 16, 20 and 24 inch - Stack up picture and ready to insert the spreaders for another day of flying:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZ0VXQWFGNURTNTQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZ0VXQWFGNURTNTQ/edit?usp=sharing)

If you should have any questions, just send me a message.  Please post and let me know your experience with a Hawk.  Thank you.

Enjoy,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZ0VXQWFGNURTNTQ)


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Hawks - Updated Plans
Post by: Doug S on July 29, 2013, 04:59 PM
Fellow Kite Builders,

I needed to make a minor update on each plan as indicated below.  The links in the previous post have been revised to provide access to the updated plans, which files and plans are all dated July 29, 2013.

•   16 in. Hawk Center Spine:  The correct diameter for the center spine carbon rod is 0.02 in.  This was mislabeled as a 0.03 in. carbon rod on the plans.

•   Line 2 for all of the 4 Hawks:  The distance from the end to the mark is 1 1/4 in.  This was missing on the 24 in. Hawk plans and not correct on the 12 and 16 in. Hawk plans.

If you have already printed out a plan, please make the above update manually on the appropriate plan.

My apology,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Hawks - Trim Suggestions
Post by: Doug S on August 02, 2013, 07:55 PM
Did some nice evening flying in very light but a little turbulent wind.  When there was a very light wind, it was coming over the roof of my home.  For longer glides, I added the following nose weight:

  •  Hawk 16 - 1 in. of the 22 gauge wire insulation
  •  Hawk 20 - 2 1/2 in. of 0.08 in carbon tube
  •  Hawk 24 - 3 in. of 0.098 in carbon tube

This additional nose weight help the Hawks cut through the little bit of turbulent air.  Line 2 is set to the stock position, which places just a small amount of bow in the center spine.

If you want to spin and climb in light thermals, move the center of gravity slightly to the rear, which is the trim setting indicated on the plans.  Just remove some of the nose weight indicated above.  With this trim setting, the kite will point its nose slightly up in the turn and have a tighter turn.  The turn also will cancel out the minor stall due to the moved center of gravity.  With this setting, the Hawks like to spin right over my head.

With either center of gravity locations, I left the leader line connection point at the stock setting.  Ran out of day light to play with the Hawk 12.

Just my thoughts,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on September 02, 2013, 05:57 PM
It was a rainy Labor Day, so I finished the small Cuben material version of my Rapere.  It has a wing span of 16 1/4 inches (Sail Material), is 18 7/8 inches long (Center Spine) and weighs 3.35 grams.  Will try it outside tomorrow.  The following provides an angled view of the finished kite.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSN3JwNGRiZTVFNFE)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on September 02, 2013, 05:58 PM
The following is a picture from the flying line side of the kite.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaUdnNW56dEZqYlk)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on September 05, 2013, 06:27 AM
Spend two evenings dialing in the Rapere-CS.  It's always fun figuring out the correct line lengths on a new version of my Rapere.  You can't see it in the pictures, but when I first put it together, it had too much dihedral and decalage angles, and was tail heavy causing it to have a controlled stall steep glide.  Also, the excessive dihedral angle in the rear sail would cause the kite to rock side to side.  It would climb great, but then just hover.  To make the draft construction plans, I scaled down the larger Rapere, but the 0.04 in. carbon rods I used for the center spine and spreader have more flex than a scaled down version of the hollow tubes I used on the larger Raperes.  Thus, the 4 lines connecting the sails to the center spine were too short.

Shortened the spreader to reduce the dihedral angle and lengthen the 4 center spine lines to reduce the decalage angle.  Now the Rapere-CS has the same dihedral and decalage angles as its finally tuned big brothers.  The front sail center batten is a 0.02 in. carbon rod, while the rear wing tip battens are 0.01 in. carbon rods.  Like its big brothers, it uses a carbon tube for nose weight, which goes from the nose connection point to the stop at the first line.  The carbon tube has a diameter of 0.098 in.  All of the Dacron reinforcements are only mounted using double sided tape.  Regarding the batten pockets made from tedlar tape, I had to add a single loop hand stitch to each one because the 0.01 in. carbon rods were pushing through the adhesive on the tedlar tape.  The yellow lines are 10 lb. spectra line.  Like its big brothers, this kite can be easily taken apart to store flat.  I used 2 mm crimp beads at the front and rear of the center spine and 3 mm crimp beads at the tips of the spreader, which allow one to disconnect these lines.  Also, the tip battens can be removed to release the tension of the carbon rods and sail, since a small area within each batten pocket has a piece of the Cuben fabric to cover the tedlar tape adhesive.

It’s a great little glider kite that weighs about 3.35 grams with a sail loading of only 0.161 oz./sq.ft., which is less than half of the sail loading for its big brothers.  To obtain the great glide of its big brothers, I had to move the center of gravity forward due to the very light sail loading.  I added a small end cap over the carbon tube to move the center of gravity.  After performing the above adjustments over the past 2 days, it now climbs and glides like its big brothers.  I flew it last night until it was dark and had way too much fun.

I will tinker more with the center of gravity location, since I think the kite is now a little nose heavy.  When I select the final center of gravity location, I then can mark the flying line connection point.  I will post updated pictures in the near future.  If someone is interested in the plans, just let me know and I will revise the draft drawings to reflect the above and post the links.

Now only if I could find this light weight Cuben fabric in different colors.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on September 05, 2013, 09:27 AM
Colored cuben is a little difficult to get,
because it is only manufactured in color upon request,
and then you need to order an entire roll, 99 yard of it.
That said, zpacks currently has the .34oz cuben in a orange tint.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 05, 2013, 09:48 AM
(http://www.zpacks.com/images/materials/hybrid_colors_l.jpg)
Looks like a mix of heavier weights
never mind this is their Cuben polyester blended material....nice colors though...


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on September 06, 2013, 10:46 AM
I noticed that the leading of the canard sail was not quite as tight and the trailing edge.  This was causing the leading edge of the canard sail to move up slightly under flight conditions, slightly increasing the decalage angles between the sails.  To correct this, I slightly lengthened the lines connecting the tips of the canard sail to the spreader.  This cured the problem and now the tension on both edges of the canard sail are even.  With this change, the center spine lost a slight amount of bow and I needed to slightly shorten the 2 lines that connect the canard sail to the center spine.  You want just a slight tension on these two lines, so the trailing edge of the canard sail has a very slight amount of dihedral.  As with its big brothers, the Rapere-VS has a quite a bit of adjustments you can make to dial in the type of flying you want to do.  It is a great kite for someone who likes to tinker.

Flew the Rapere-CS today with the above changes and it is sweet!!!  The wind was very light, but a little turbulent in my front yard.  This little kite telegraphs the slight up and down currents, just like my Hawks.  In an up current, I had it over 30 feet high and it was still climbing.  Pulled it straight down, like a Harrier Jet Fighter on a landing approach, before the light lift took it over the roof of my home.  This little kite can change directions as easily as one of my Hawks with about the same wing span.  The location of the center of gravity is right on and allows the kite to cut through the down currents.

To launch, you just lightly toss it like a paper airplane down wind and quickly spool out the line so there is no tension.  When you want it to climb, just apply a little tension on the line, and the kite will turn towards you, where you can tow it up like a conventional single line kite.  After each tow up over my head, the Rapere-CS quickly settles into a flat glide.  For more float, I just need to move the center of gravity slightly to the rear by removing the end cap from the carbon tube nose weight.  I updated my prior posts on this kite regarding its weight and sail loading, which is now 3.35 grams with the extra nose weight, but smaller crimp beads in the front and rear of the center spine.  Great little kite to fly indoors or outdoors.  Will post new pictures later today.

Thank you to thief and ae for indicating there are other colors of Cuben Fabric, but at this time only in light gray or orange.  Orange is just not my color for a kite.  Hoping to find red, white or blue in the near future.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite - In Flight Pictures
Post by: Doug S on September 06, 2013, 05:06 PM
Just before it got dark, I snapped a few in flight pictures of the Rapere-CS.  The air was perfect with a very slight wind (less than 1 mph) out of the east into the setting sun.  Fun to take pictures when you have to drop the flying line to take the shot.  The first picture is on the top of the launch.  The kite was about 30 feet away for the shot.  Stealth kite on the hunt.   ;D

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSR3lma0RJMy1tTVk)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite - In Flight Pictures
Post by: Doug S on September 06, 2013, 05:10 PM
On the fly by.  The kite was about 25 feet away for the shot.  The flash reflecting off of the shiny Cuben fabric.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSHBOc0VXYTljRXc)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere-CS Canard Kite - In Flight Pictures
Post by: Doug S on September 06, 2013, 05:13 PM
Second picture on the fly by.  On a different pass, the kite again was about 25 feet away for the shot.  This is the best picture.  Again, the flash reflecting off of the shiny Cuben fabric.  I also took shots at other angles, but the kite got lost in the back ground, such as the trees and the yard.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUG5aNWR4U2V0MlE)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere made with Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on September 16, 2013, 05:55 AM
Since the 16 in. Rapere made with the Cuben Fabric flew so well, I am in the process of making a slightly larger one.  With a wing span of 24 in., it should have a lighter sail loading then the 16 in. version.  Cut out the Cuben fabric yesterday.  Hope to have it in the air in about a week.

In hot cutting the Cuben, I now use an old laboratory rheostat that allows me to alter the amount of AC voltage to my 25 Watt soldering iron.  I reduced the voltage to a setting of 75 and that was just enough to hot cut the fibers in the Cuben fabric.  The film portion of the Cuben still melts very quickly, but now in a more controlled manner.  Without the lower temperature, you have to move the tip of the soldering very quickly.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on September 18, 2013, 04:29 AM
Why bother with hot cutting it? It won't fray if you simply cut it with a sharp knife like a scalpel.


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard made from 0.33 oz./sq.yd. Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on September 18, 2013, 06:29 AM
ae,

In making a smaller version of my Rapere using the Cuben Fabric, the goal was to fabricate the kite with a very light sail loading and still be resilient to normal flying abuse, so there are no folded edges.  This removes the unnecessary weight of additional sail material and binding agents for a folded edge.  The 16 in. and the 24 in. versions of my Rapere were designed solely for zero to very low wind conditions.  My bigger concern with no folded edges was how the Cuben Fabric would hold up under tension at each location for the numerous connection lines, since the Cuben Fabric is not doubled under the reinforcements under those locations.  So far, the 16 in. version is doing just fine with the Dacron and double sided tape reinforcements, and this kite has been left assembled under tension for quite some time.  We will see how the 24 in version holds up after it is completed, which kite will have slightly larger diameter carbon rods that will apply more tension when assembled.

Hot cutting the Cuben Fabric allows me to have a sealed (melted) edge around the perimeter of the sail, because all of the edges are exposed except at the connection points.  To date, the hot cut unfolded edges have been holding up quite well from the normal abuse while flying the 16 in. Rapere and my various Hawks (12, 16, 20 and 24 in.) in confined areas.  The Hawks do not have a folded trailing edge.

I have found that in the 0.33 oz./sq.yd. light weight version of the Cuben Fabric, the fibers used to reinforce the fabric are quite strong as compared to the weak nature of the film portion of the material.  This is very different from working with ripstop polyester (PC-31) or ripstop nylon.  The film portion of the Cuben Fabric is almost as weak as the film in the Orcon Fabric.  The Cuben Fabric is a more resilient due to the closer spacing of the fibers, where the Orcon Fabric only has fibers on an evenly spaced grid pattern.  With the Cuben Fabric that I have acquired, there are narrow strips around 0.25 in. wide within the material where the fiber spacing is not as dense.  In these strips, the Cuben Fabric appears to be more clear than cloudy.  This is a weak point in the Cuben Fabric and I try to avoid this portion of the material when cutting out my sails.

With the Cuben Fabric, the difference in the strength of the fibers as compared to the film at first was a little challenging to hot cut, but after reducing the temperature of my hot cutting tool, I have the right balance that allows the tip to be just hot enough to melt the fibers.  The film still melts very quickly.  I hot cut all of my edges along a steel edge on a glass table.  I have found that the steel edge acts as a heat sink and helps control the melting of the film potion of the Cuben Fabric along the edge, which provides a very clean cut.

In the recent past, I have attempted to cold cut the Cuben Fabric with scissors and a very sharp blade, and have found it to be more challenging than using these cutting tools to cut ripstop polyester (PC-31) or ripstop nylon, for the reasons described above.  I have actually pulled a fiber free from the Cuben Fabric film while cold cutting the material.  The bond is not as strong as you would think with the 0.33 oz./sq.yd. Cuben Fabric.

Just my thoughts based on my own experience with the 0.33 oz./sq.yd. Cuben Fabric.  Use whatever method works the best for you on the density of Cuben Fabric you are using.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 18, 2013, 06:39 AM
i would love to see a video of you building some of these Doug!!!!!


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Canard Kite made from Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on September 18, 2013, 07:10 AM
thief,

It wouldn't be attractive.  My work shop is very neat and organized, but building these very light and small kites with my 57 year old eyes and large hands is quite entertaining, especially tying accurately placed knots in the 10 lb. spectra line.   :D

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Kite Bag for Ultra Light Single Line Kites
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 10:14 AM
Haven't posted for a while because I have been very busy with college visits for my youngest son and installing the wiring to run my entire home on our large Honda generator.  I have been doing some kite related projects.

The attached picture is of a kite bag I fabricated to hold all of my Hawks.  It's make of Cordura 1000, a 18" x 18" piece of plastic from Home Depot stored in a Cordura sleeve for stiffness, and grey 3/4 oz. ripstop for the six pages to hold each size Hawk.

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUlc4aTdudmdHUUU)


Title: Doug Stout's Kite Bag for Ultra Light Single Line Kites
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 10:16 AM
The attached picture is with the Cordura Flap open.  The Flap is held closed with three pieces of Velcro on the back.  You can see the silhouette of 2 of my 12 in. Hawks that are stored under the first page.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMV9fWm82clZpeTg)


Title: Doug Stout's Kite Bag for Ultra Light Single Line Kites
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 10:18 AM
The attached picture is with the pages open to 2 of my 16 in. Hawks.  The kite bag can hold my Hawks with wing spans up to 24 in.  You can see the silhouette of my 20 in. Hawk that is stored under the next page.  The kite bag allows all of the kites to be stored flat.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMFE4MHVuSHhqcDg)


Title: Doug Stout's 24 in. Cuben Rapere
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 10:36 AM
The attached picture is of my 24 in. Cuben Rapere, which I finished on October 6, 2013.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSFVOWm41Y0pyRjg)


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Rapere-CS (16 in.) and Rapere-C (24 in.)
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 11:06 AM
The attached picture is 2 of my Cuben Raperes, one with a 16 in. wing span (in front), and one with a 24 in. wing span (in back).

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdWpQLVhfYm1RelE)


Title: Doug Stout's Rapere Stunt Kite
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2013, 01:21 PM
Also, I just cut out the PC-31 for a stunt kite version of my Rapere.  The prototype will have a wing span of 48 in.  I will fill in the area between the two sails (canard sail and rear sail) with fine black mesh.  I will post pictures in the near future.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on November 02, 2013, 11:37 PM
That will be interesting.
I always wanted to do a for and main sail configuration stunt kite, but never got around to actually do. Past the concept drawings.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 03, 2013, 10:59 AM
ae,

Will post pictures when I am done with construction.  I have an idea regarding how tol frame the kite, which will be worked out after the sail is completed.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 10, 2013, 07:32 AM
The experimental engineer in me got bored again and designed a single sail glider kite, with a swept forward wing.  I just wanted to see if it could be done!  ;D  The design concept is roughly based on the outline of the XT-908 Drone in the pending 2014 version of Robocop, where I made some expected changes to allow it to be a glider kite.

Made the 24 in. wing span prototype out of PC-31, 0.04 in. carbon rods and 0.02 in. tip battens to test the design concept.  Finished it last night and it actually fly’s and is very response.  :D  The tips washout under load, which provides the desired tip stability.  The following and the next two posts provide a few pictures of the prototype.  Will spend time dialing in the design, and then make a second one using Cuben 0.33 and minimal reinforcements.

The material for the dual line version of my 48 in. wing span Rapere is cut out and I will build that kite over the holiday break.  Also, I am making a lighter version of my 16 in. wing span Cuben Rapere.  I just love how the Cuben Raperes (16 in. and 24 in. wing spans) fly.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaG1ab0tkSW94czA)


Title: Doug Stout's Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 10, 2013, 07:33 AM
Back view.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSY0tHUnJsZGpsUlE)


Title: Doug Stout's Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 10, 2013, 07:34 AM
Angled right side view.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSbnJydVBPeURDaWM)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on December 10, 2013, 07:37 AM
that looks great! was waiting to see the hard product!


Title: Doug Stout's Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 10, 2013, 08:14 AM
Thief,

Thank you for the kind words.  I spend some time scratching my head on how I was going to put this kite together with the minimum amount of materials.  :D  My solution to obtain the 20 degrees of dihedral (10 degrees each side) was just adding two stops and a length of 10 lb. spectra line to tension the swept forward wing spars.  Very surprise on how well it worked out.  Using the black insulation from electrical wire for the center joiner and stops.

Based on reading information about one of my favorite NASA experimental designs, the X-29, this kite also is very responsive.  The kite was designed to be a hunter and not a floater.  Now I just need some air time to experiment with the center of gravity location and center spine bow.  The current center of gravity location is set to my modelled design static margin of 10% behind the neutral point.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on December 11, 2013, 05:44 AM
Nice!
I like it, nice and sharp with minimal fuzz.
And yes forward swept wing is supposed to be much more agile then normal swept wings.


Title: Doug Stout's Conceptual X-29 Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 13, 2013, 08:20 PM
During this week, the experimental engineer in me got bored once again and designed a kite version of an X-29 without the fuselage.  Since I like the looks of the NASA X-29 airplane and the Air Force Thunderbirds, I will combine the two themes to make a glider canard kite.

I traced the outline of the X-29 canard and wing, and trimmed the root of the wing to line up with the root of the canard.  The prototype will have about the same wing span as my Arrow and Rapere, at about 42 inches using hollow tube 0.125 carbon tubes.  I will use multi-colors of PC-31 so that it looks like it belongs to the Air Force Thunderbirds.  The conceptual drawing is attached.  Still tinkering with some of the colors.

This will be another fun winter project, while we anticipate 8 inches of snow over the weekend.  Will start drafting up the construction plans next week.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmST0U3aTFLWE4xc3c)


Title: Doug Stout's Conceptual X-29 Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 13, 2013, 09:22 PM
Here is a version that includes grey, which is what the early Thunderbirds looked like.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTDVEakV4OEVRQ3M)


Title: Doug Stout's Conceptual X-29 Canard Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 13, 2013, 10:00 PM
Here is a third version, which is the one I will build.  Time to draft the plans.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTFdzd01vM0Z5WEk)


Title: Doug Stout's Conceptual X-29 Canard Kite - Happy Holidays
Post by: Doug S on December 20, 2013, 11:12 AM
Finished the construction plans for the X-29 and will start construction over the holiday break.  With 26 panels, what was I thinking?  ::)

I have three kites to build, which are a stunt kite version of my Rapere, the swept forward wing glider kite (single sail) out of Cuben fabric, and the X-29.  This should keep me very busy for a while.  :D

With the warmer weather we are having in the northeast, I hope to do some kite flying this weekend.  ;D

In closing, thank you for allowing me to share my kiting building endeavors with you over the past year.  My each of you have a very safe and happy holidays.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Conceptual X-29 Canard Kite
Post by: stapp59 on December 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
I like the third version - alot  :)

Here is a third version, which is the one I will build.  Time to draft the plans.

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Swept Forward Wing Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 09:44 AM
Finished the Cuben version of the subject kite and I am very pleased.  I named it after my last stunt kite, "Bird of Prey," where the sail shape fits the name.  With a 24 inch wing span, the kite weighs 3.0 grams using 0.03 in. carbon rods for the center spine and wing spars, and 0.01 in. carbon rods for the tip battens.  With its unique shape, it fly’s much better than expected and is a great glider.

Three unique characteristics about this design:  1) When balanced for a great glide, the center of gravity is more forward than other gliders, yielding a static margin of less than 2 percent.  2) With this sail shape and tip washout under load, you use a more forward connection point for the flying line, which makes it more response to changes in line tension for steering, which is the way I like to fly.  3) With the wing spars at the leading edge, the tips washout under load and makes the kite tip stall proof.  My other single line gliders have static margins that range between 10 and 15 percent.

The following provides a picture of the Bird of Prey in flight in my front yard.  Very light wind and cold at 25 degrees F.  With the success of this design, I am going to build a large one with a wing span around 48 inches.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdFZsTUpkeDVsWm8)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Swept Forward Wing Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 09:49 AM
Front view of the Bird of Prey...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSVkdZUTNLUW13Qjg)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Swept Forward Wing Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 09:50 AM
Back view of the Bird of Prey...

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWjZEOUZwamVNVGM)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on December 31, 2013, 11:04 AM
Pretty cool Doug!  Where did you source the Cuban?

Steve


Title: Doug Stout's Cuben Bird of Prey Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 11:22 AM
The following provides the link for the Cuben I am using:

http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN (http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN)

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Cuben Bird of Prey Glider Kite
Post by: stapp59 on December 31, 2013, 12:12 PM
Thanks!  I've used Seattle fabrics for some nylons, webbing and velcro.  They don't have cuben ...

The following provides the link for the Cuben I am using:

[url]http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN[/url] ([url]http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN[/url])

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Cuben Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 03:02 PM
ZPacks also carries the very light Cuben in orange, as indicated in the following link.  I prefer the light grey from questoutfitters.

http://www.zpacks.com/materials.shtml (http://www.zpacks.com/materials.shtml)

Back to my other kite construction projects, while we wait for a snowstorm in the northeast.

Have a happy and safe New Year’s evening.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on December 31, 2013, 05:49 PM
Front view of the Bird of Prey...


On man... This looks awesome......... Would love to get my hands on this one!!!!!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on December 31, 2013, 08:45 PM
Rob,

Sent you an E-Mail.  ;D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DMF on January 01, 2014, 03:47 PM
Doug these gliders look really great.  I'm going to put this on the bucket list for 2014!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Swept Forward Wing Single Line Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on January 07, 2014, 11:35 AM
The following drawing is the color layout for a 48 in. and 62 in. wing span version of my Bird of Prey swept forward wing single line glider kite.  Just couldn't resist making it look like a stealth fighter with USA colors.  The sail material will be PC31 and the frames will be small diameter hollow carbon tubes, which diameters will be selected during construction.  I have 0.08, 0.098 and 0.125 in. diameter carbon tubes to try out.  The plans are done for the 48 in. version.  I will finish the plans for the 62 in. version by the weekend.

This weekend I will start these two glider kites, along with my X-29 canard glider kite.  While waiting for the materials, I will sew together the stunt kite version of my Rapere.

Didn't get much kite building completed over the holiday break, because of enjoyable hours with my family.  My 23 year old son was home from LA for two weeks, where he is a musician (lead guitarist and backup singer) with the band Blondfire.  He also does session work for others in the LA area.  Also, we just held the Boy Scout Eagle Ceremony for my 18 year old son, who will be off to college this fall.  Great times in the Stout house hold.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSM250NXpPdlRSV0U)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48
Post by: Doug S on February 03, 2014, 01:47 PM
The following provides a picture of the Bird of Prey with a 48 inch wing span.  Up is the direction of flight.  The kite weighs 32.5 grams and is framed with 0.08 inch carbon tubes for the wing spars and center spine, with 0.03 carbon rods for the tip battens.  The sail material is PC31.  I went with the color charcoal for the simulated canopy, which has outlined in white pin stripes.  Could make it a bit lighter if I used fewer colors, but it looks so cool in the air.  Still very light for it size, for a great outdoor zero/light wind glider.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSTVljV0pEM29nMXM)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48
Post by: Doug S on February 03, 2014, 01:48 PM
The following provides an angled view of the Bird of Prey 48.  Waiting for the snow to stop up here in the northeast to take pictures while in flight.  In this picture, you can see the outline of the simulated canopy with white pin stripes.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUmJNMzk5Rm5UMFE)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on February 03, 2014, 03:08 PM
Looks pretty cool!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on February 03, 2014, 08:57 PM
Very nice indeed.


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 09, 2014, 06:31 PM
Due to our lovely winter weather, I am almost done sewing the sail for the 62 inch wing span version.  Just need to finish sewing the balance of the reinforcements.  Should have it completed this week.

I flew the 48 inch version outside on Friday in the snow.  It looks really cool in the air.  Will try to take some in flight pictures when there is a fresh layer of snow covering all of the ice.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 15, 2014, 05:04 PM
... and then there were three...

The attached picture shows the three sizes of my Bird of Prey.  Just finished the 62 inch wing span version, which is on the left.  The 24 inch wing span version is in the middle, while the 48 inch wing span version is on the right.  I hope to get the 62 in the air when the snow stops.  The 24 inch made from Cuben is still my favorite for ultra-light flying.  Thinking of building an ultra-light version of the 48 using Cuben.  They are very efficient gliders.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMHlPR1U5bDY0ZWM)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey-62
Post by: Doug S on February 16, 2014, 05:58 AM
The attached picture is the larger Bird of Prey backlit with natural lighting.  It has a 62 inch wing span, 35 inches in length, with a project sail area of 867 square inches.  It weighs 57.9 grams balanced at my center of gravity starting point, which is on the mark with a sail loading of 0.339 grams/square inch of projected sail area.  Time to get this Bird some air time!

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYnNlM3E1eWlUUTA)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Glider Kites
Post by: Doug S on February 21, 2014, 07:15 PM
The attached picture shows the sails I just hot cut out for three 24 inch ultra-light Birds of Prey for fellow kite glider enthusiasts and my prototype ultra-light 48 inch Bird of Prey (the large one).  Several people have asked, and at their request, I am building a limited number of the Bird of Prey 24 for others.  The sail material is 0.35 oz./sq.yd. Cubic Tech Cuben fabric.  The color is orange, which I am finding to be a better laminate than the whitish/grey material.  Due to the light weight of this material, the orange is very light in color and looks great in the air.  The good news is the sail material for each color weighs the same, even though the orange feels a little stiffer.  I have had issues with the whitish/grey material and had to toss a couple sails that were in process, which is very painful due to the cost of this fabric at 25 to 30 dollars/yard.  Thief's Bird of Prey that he posted under the Single Line section of this forum is made from the orange Cuben fabric.  Thank you to thief for asking me to build my Bird of Prey 24 for him in the orange Cuben fabric, which will be the material I will use going forward.

The following link provides my recent video of my Bird of Prey 24 in flight, which is made from the whitish/grey Cuben fabric.  Under the Single Line Section of this forum is my discussion regarding the fun I had making the video.  Out of all of my glider kites, this one is my favorite.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWjliWXlmNHVBN0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWjliWXlmNHVBN0k/edit?usp=sharing)

As indicated under the Single Line Section of this forum, the 48 and 62 inch sizes made from PC31 in multi-colors are a work in process.  They glide great, but I need to wait until the snow clears at our local sports fields to get a better launch.  Using the PC31, the sail loading is higher and more typical for a glider kite of their respective sizes, so they need more room to run.  The ever tinkering engineer in me is building an ultra-light version of the 48 inch to see what it can do in small areas, which sail is show in the attached picture.  I hope to reduce the weight of the 48 inch kite by about 45 percent, mostly due to using the Cuben fabric and one panel of sail material.

Thank you again for your interest,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSDVMU085djdCbEU)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24 2nd Video
Post by: Doug S on February 23, 2014, 11:24 AM
The following provides a second video I shot today at a higher resolution.  Very light wind out of a different direction.  Blondfire again for the music, this time the song in the first one on their new album.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSeV96SmkwdXJ6REE/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you again and enjoy!

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 25, 2014, 06:25 PM
The ever tinkering engineer in me couldn't resist.  I make a set of plans for an ultra-light version of the Bird of Prey with a wing span of 36 inches, which is just the right size for the amount of whitish/grey Cuben fabric I have left.  I have a bunch of BOPs I need to build. :D

Update:  I just received the 0.059 in. carbon tubes.  One word, wow!

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Preys
Post by: Doug S on March 08, 2014, 05:38 AM
Finishing up a few Bird of Prey 24s today for fellow glider kite enthusiasts.  Really do like the texture of the orange Cuben fabric, as compared to the white.  For the same weight, the orange is more durable to work with during the building process.  I also started the 36 and 48 in. ultra-light versions.  Using up my white Cuben on the 36, and have to be careful during the build.  ::)   Will post pictures in the near future.

Once I get all of the Birds of Prey in the air, I will finally build my X-29 canard glider kite and my stunt kite version of the Rapere.  It’s been a very productive winter for kite building.  ;D

Just waiting for more snow to melt, so I can fly my glider kite air force outside (Birds of Prey, Hawks, Falcons, Eagles and Osprey single sail gliders, and Raperes, X-29 and Arrow canard gliders).  My Birds of Prey and Hawks are keeping me entertained while indoors.  :D

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Raperes and Bird of Preys
Post by: Doug S on March 22, 2014, 07:29 AM
While cleaning up my workshop from the recent Bird of Prey development and builds, I came across the completed sails for a second Rapere-CS ultra-light canard that I started the end of last year.  Since this kite takes a bit of time to assemble, I’ve been ignoring it in my shop.  This little kite is the smaller version of my Raperes, where I have offered the plans on this great Forum.  I scaled down this design for flying in small areas and indoors.  It has a wing span of 16.5 in. and weighs only 3.0 grams.  The sail is made from Cuben fabric, with 0.04 in. carbon rods for the center spine and spreader, a 0.02 in. carbon rod for the forward sail center spine, and 0.01 in. carbon rods for the tip battens.  It’s a slow assembly process with all of the little short length lines and the numerous stops.  I had a senior moment while building the prototype and forgot to write down the line lengths I worked out, so it was a bit of trial and error to match the prototype.  Very therapeutic and tedious work.  I build a second one because it’s such a fun little kite to fly.  And yes, I have written down the lengths for all of the little lines.  The attached picture shows the new Rapere-CS, with the prototype for this kite in the background.

Regarding the ultra-light Bird of Preys (BOP), the 48 in. wing span version fly’s great!  Waiting for Mother Nature to behave, so I can fine tune the location of the center of gravity.  Right now I think it’s right on the mark, but will move it just to confirm I found the sweet spot for gliding.  I have been flying it with my 10 lb. spectra line, which may be too light for this kite.  Flying line on a glider kite moves the center of gravity forward, depending on the weight and drag of the flying line.  This also changes in flight as the result of the flying line length between you and the kite in flight.  The goal is to use the lightest and thinnest flying line you can, which reduces the unnecessary weight and drag that the glider kite needs to lift and drag through the air.  In doing so, you need to dial in the center of gravity, once you have the best line for your kite.  Will be purchasing a spool of 20 lb. spectra flying line to give that a try.  Want to take some in flight pictures and maybe a video, but Mother Nature is not cooperating again.  I used the DPP 0.059 in. carbon tubes from CST in the BOP48, which I am extremely pleased with.  You can bend this carbon tube in an 18 in. diameter circle without braking or cracking the tube.  Unbelievable!  They are a little pricy, but well worth the cost.  What’s that saying, you get what you pay for.

The 36 in. wing span BOP is going to be reframed.  Trying to go ultra-light, I built it with 0.04 in. carbon rods, which are just too flexible for the wing spars when the kite is under load during a climb.  It does glide very well like its BOP24 and BOP48 brothers.  Spoke with CST this week and they have a DPP carbon tube with a 0.039 in. diameter in stock.  In their quick side by side comparison they did for me at their shop, this carbon tube is actually stiffer than their equivalent carbon rod.  Very interesting!  It also is 25% lighter than the equivalent carbon rod I used.  My goal is to make the wing spars a little stiffer, while maintaining the kites ultra-light sail loading.  As a last resort, I could reframe with 0.05 in. carbon rods, but that would increase the weight of the kite by 1.64 grams.  I ordered some DPP 0.039 in. carbon tubes, along with a few other sizes (0.028, 0.079 and 0.098 in.) to give them a try.  They should arrive sometime this coming week, and I will do my own side by side comparison before reframing the BOP36.  I may get really bold and build another BOP24 for me with 0.028 in. carbon tubes to see what it can do.  It will reduce the weight of the BOP24 from 2.7 to 2.5 grams.  Not sure about the stiffness until I build the kite, but we will see.  The larger diameter DPP carbon tubes may be going in my completed multi-color BOPs, with wing spans of 48 and 62 inches.

Later,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUmpiRzIxX3V6cmc)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on March 22, 2014, 07:47 AM
Good stuff, thanks for the updates.  8)  Framing and design tradeoffs are always interesting...


Title: Carbon Rod and Tube Deflection Evaluation and Bird of Prey 36 Reframing
Post by: Doug S on March 29, 2014, 06:31 PM
Received my CST order this week.  Spent last night and today performing a deflection evaluation of carbon rods, with diameters ranging from 0.03 to 0.098 inches.  Also performed the same evaluation of carbon tubes, with diameters ranging from 0.028 to 0.098 inches.  A little punchy from taking all of the measurements and entering the results into an Excel spreadsheet, but it was well worth the effort.  As part of the evaluation, performed the following:

-   Measured the actual diameter of the selected rod or tube and calculated the cross sectional area.
-   Measured the actual mass of the selected rod or tube to calculate the density (grams/inch of length).
-   Measured the deflection at distance of 10 inches of exposed rod or tube, using 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50 gram OHAUS weights.  The rod or tube was carefully held in place with 10 1/8 inches of exposed material.  The selected weights were suspended at the end of the exposed rod 1/8 inches from the end.

Selected distance of 10 inches based on wanting to keep the same moment distance for all of the rod and tube measurements.  The small diameter rods and tubes would bend far more than what would be experienced in my ultra-light glider kites.  Please note for the small diameter rods and tubes, could only use weights up to 5 grams, but was able to measure a minimum of three different weights for each rod or tube.  With these measurements, observed maximum deflections ranging from 3.16 degrees for the 0.098 inch carbon rod with 50 grams of weight, to 30.58 degrees for the 0.03 inch carbon rod with 5 grams of weight.  The 0.03 inch carbon rod is used for my Bird of Prey 24 (BOP24).  Will post the findings in the future, once the preliminary tables and charts have been refined.

Regarding the Bird of Prey 36 (BOP36), removed the 0.04 inch carbon rods, which had an actual diameter of 0.0395 inches.  The new frame is the CST 503 carbon tubes with a measured diameter of 0.0395 inches.  Based on my measurements, the CST 503 carbon tubes were 15.8% stiffer (less deflection) and 30.4% lighter that the 0.04 inch carbon rods.  The goal was not to reduce the weight of the BOP36, but install a stiffer frame.  The total weight of the Bird of Prey 36 is now only 5.7 grams with a sail loading of 0.0195 grams/sq.in. of projected sail area.  In the end, the BOP36 lost 0.1 gram of weight.

The true test was how did the BOP36 fly?  Since Mother Nature is at it again in the northeast with high winds and rain, flew the BOP36 in my family room and I could not be more pleased!  The frame is now holding the sail taught under load and I can zip this 36 inch wing span kite around, just like its little brother (BOP24).  Under light line tension, the BOP36 has a very slow flat glide.

Based on my deflection evaluation, most likely will be reframing some of my other BOPs with these high quality CST carbon tubes.  These tubes are more durable and will go into my BOP48 and BOP62, which are made from PC31.  Also will try the small diameter in a new BOP24.

Later,

Doug


Title: Deflection Chart for Micro Carbon Rods and Tubes
Post by: Doug S on March 30, 2014, 06:08 AM
The following link provides access to the subject chart, so you can see the preliminary results from my measurements.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjcteEZ5WS1nbTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjcteEZ5WS1nbTA/edit?usp=sharing)

Working on a table of the measurements and calculations, along with other charts.  The micro carbon rods obtained from various sources in our kiting industry over the past 5 years, such as Kites and Fun Things and Goodwind Kites.  The micro carbon tubes were obtained from Kites and Fun Things.  The items identified with "CST" were obtained from CST, The Composite Store.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Reframed Bird of Prey 48 and 62 Made from PC31
Post by: Doug S on April 04, 2014, 04:34 PM
I reframed the Bird of Prey (BOP) 48 and 62 that were made with multi-colored PC31.  The new frames that I used and indicated in my recent prior posts are CST’s DPP™ Pultrusion Carbon Tubes.

On the BOP 48, I replaced the frame with T505 0.079 in. carbon tubes, which reduced the weight of the kite from 32.5 to 31.3 grams or by 3.8%.  My goal was not to reduce the weight of the kite, but use what I hope is a more durable carbon tube.  On a hard accidental pull with the old frame, I split the old tube just outside of the center joiner.  Flew the BOP48 last night and have the center of gravity dialed in.  This kite is very responsive and fun to fly in a light breeze, with a typical sail loading for a PC31 gilder kite.  Having a higher sail loading of 0.0602 grams/square inch (g./sq.in.) of projected sail area, you have to give this kite a little more room to turn.  Smooth and controlled line inputs provide very rewarding responses from this kite.  This is because this BOP48e kite with its higher sail loading glides faster than the version made with the Cuben fabric, 0.059 in. carbon tubes, which only weighs 11.3 grams.  Also, for this sail loading, I am finding that a static margin around 2% works best, whereas for the ultra-light versions of the BOP, a static margin closer to 1% works best.

Regarding the BOP62, I replaced the frame with the T506 0.098 in. carbon tubes, which reduced the weight of the kite from 57.9 to 52.7 grams or by 9.9%.  The revised sail loading is 0.0608 g./sq.in.  Most of the weight reduction was from reducing the diameter of the center spine from 0.125 in. to 0.098 in.  The 0.125 in. center spine was too stiff and was not allowing enough of bow along the center of the sail.  Also, this kite was a little nose heavy, so I removed some of the nose weight.  On a glide, the BOP62 is very majestic due to its size, but I need to make some additional fine adjustments to see if I can get it to perform like the spunky BOP48.  Looking to make it a little less stable and a little more responsive on the flying line.  Spent last night matching the setup from the BOP48, regarding the static margin, and wing spar and batten tension on the sail.  Waiting for Mother Nature to behave again to test fly this larger BOP.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on April 04, 2014, 04:49 PM



                   Awesome work!
                 
                    Mike


Title: Re: Deflection Chart for Micro Carbon Rods and Tubes
Post by: stapp59 on April 05, 2014, 06:31 AM
Downloaded your table, thanks!  We work in very different kite building worlds.  Kind of like a Gossamer Eagle and a Cessna Citation :)  Both designs very good at what they do...

The following link provides access to the subject chart, so you can see the preliminary results from my measurements.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjcteEZ5WS1nbTA/edit?usp=sharing

Working on a table of the measurements and calculations, along with other charts.  The micro carbon rods obtained from various sources in our kiting industry over the past 5 years, such as Kites and Fun Things and Goodwind Kites.  The micro carbon tubes were obtained from Kites and Fun Things.  The items identified with "CST" were obtained from CST, The Composite Store.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Deflection Results, Glider Kites and Stunt Kites
Post by: Doug S on April 05, 2014, 07:44 AM
Mike and Steve, thank you for your kind words.  Regarding the deflection results, I haven't had time to prepare a summary version of the table for others to use, along with other charts.  Hope to have them available this coming week.  My analysis helped me objectively reframe a couple of my Birds of Prey (BOP).  Just the engineer in me, doing my thing.

I am waiting for a shipment of orange Cuben so that I can try out the 0.028 in. carbon tubes in a new BOP24.  It’s going to be hard to top the current BOP24 configuration, which is still my favorite glider kite to fly.  Since I am building another one for me, let me know if anyone is interested in a BOP24.  If so, just send me a PM and I will build you one.

This coming week, I hopefully will get to the X-29 canard kite.  Trying to get my current projects built and dialed in for the 24th Annual Kite Day in the Park, which is on May 3, 2014 at Louise W. Moore Park in Easton, Pennsylvania.  The attached file provides a copy of the event information.  I usually bring three bags of different kites (single line gliders, single line kites and stunt kites).  This year my car will be very full with various flying toys.

Steve, as you know, I also love to fly stunt kites, but my style is old school precision.  In the next few months, I plan on teaching these old hands some of the new tricks with two great custom kites that I acquired from Jon (Solus) and Will (Saber II).  Most likely will be purchasing one of Jon’s Auras in the near future.  If successful at learning the new tricks, who knows, maybe I will build some using available plans developed by others and develop one of my own.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on April 24, 2014, 06:16 AM
Over the past two weeks while recovering from the flu, I had some quality flying time on the multi-color PC31 versions of the Bird of Prey (BOP), which have wing spans of 48 and 62 inches.  They are both dialed in and are a joy to fly.  The new carbon tube frames were an enhancement.  I also installed heat shrink tubing around the wing spars, at the point where they are inserted into the center joiner.  There was a hard pressure point at the end of the white PVC center joiner tubing that was causing the prior hollow tubes to be crushed when too much force was applied to the flying line.  The heat shrink tubing was carefully applied with a hair drier and made a better fit, while provided padded reinforcement around this pressure point.  I have strongly pulled on the flying line for these two kites and haven’t broken anything.  The final static margin for these two kites is about 2%, which allows these glider kites to be responsive and have a nice flat glide for this style glider kite.  During the trimming process, I tried a lower static margin of 1% (more nose heavy), but it made these two kites too stable due to the forward inertia from the higher sail loadings.  The BOP 62 is majestic in the air, while the BOP 48 is very responsive and fun to abuse in the air.  During one of the trimming flights, the BOP 48 got caught in a thermal and went straight up to 60 feet in my front yard, where I had to pull it down before it ended up in a tree.  If the wind cooperates this coming weekend, I hope to shot some video of these kites in the air.

For the ultra-light versions of the BOP made with Cuben, I determined in the past that a static margin of about 1% was the best to this style glider kite, which makes the kite slightly more nose heavy than the PC31 versions.  Due to the ultra-light sail loading of the Cuben versions, the lower static margin allows these glider kites to have more forward inertia for a flatter and longer glide, yet still be very responsive due to their low sail loadings. I did test the center of gravity a little more to the rear, with a static margin of about 2%.  The result was a slower steeper glide angle, with the nose of the kite pointing a little higher in the air.  The 2% static margin moved the point on the Lift to Drag (L/D) curve to the location of minimal sink, but not ideal to cover ground as a glider.

I am in the process of building a few more BOP-24s, one with 0.028 inch diameter carbon tubes.  One of the BOP 24s will be for a young lady who will use it for a stage performance at the Eugene O'Neill Theatre in New York City, which is quite cool.

Someday in the near future I will get back to building the X-29 Canard Kite.

As indicated in the Kite Land Event section of this forum, on May 3, 2014 the Pocono Kite Symphony/Lehigh Valley Kite Society will be hosting their 24th Kite Day in the Park Event, at the Louise W. Moore Park in Easton, PA.  I attended the event over the past few years and had a very enjoyable experience with other kite fliers.  As in the past, my car will be loaded with at least three bags of kites (single line glider kites, single line kites and stunt kites), so I am prepared for whatever Mother Nature throws our way.  I hope the wind will be light at some point during the day, so I can fly my glider kites discussed on this forum.  Hope to see you there.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Deflection Results, Glider Kites and Stunt Kites
Post by: stapp59 on April 24, 2014, 07:01 AM
It will be interesting to see how you approach the various design tradeoffs Doug on a sport kite that makes 3D tricks accessible yet still flies as well as the old school classics.  Seems an elusive combination...

Sorry to hear about the flu. Ugh.

Steve, as you know, I also love to fly stunt kites, but my style is old school precision.  In the next few months, I plan on teaching these old hands some of the new tricks with two great custom kites that I acquired from Jon (Solus) and Will (Saber II).  Most likely will be purchasing one of Jon’s Auras in the near future.  If successful at learning the new tricks, who knows, maybe I will build some using available plans developed by others and develop one of my own.

Later,

Doug


Title: How to Approach Stunt Kite Designs
Post by: Doug S on April 24, 2014, 10:11 AM
Steve,

With the wind blowing outside and the warmer weather now here, I got the itch to get out and play with my stunt kites again.  As with any flying object, there are tradeoffs to maintain the various desired performance aspects of a design.  Then you try to balance these attributes over a wide range of wind speeds, where the wind force on the kite is squared as you double the wind speed.  You are seeing that with your own experiments.  I keep in the back of my mind that great phrase in the late Billy Preston’s song, Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’. :D  Being a “think out of the box” engineer, “elusive” is just another challenge to explore.  As you know that on a whim, I experimented with a swept forward wing glider kite just to see if I could get one to fly.  I shared the initial concept with Thief last fall and I think he thought I was a little crazy.  With a little bit of engineering, along with experimenting with material types and new construction techniques, the dam thing flies far better than I ever expected.  Now I have a squadron of different size Bird of Preys to play with.   ;D

As indicated in my previous post, I need to get these old hands to learn the current repertoire of slack line tricks.  Once I get some quality time on the two great stunt kites I acquired from by Jon (Solus) and Will (Saber II), I will look at Geokite to see what I need to add to the program.  The goal will be to add calculations to the program that can quantify the various aspects of a stunt kite that allow for the various slack line tricks.  Currently, Geokite does a great job for tight line old school maneuvers.  The effects of tail weight in the current breed of stunt kite are easy to calculate, using the simple moment of inertia equation:  (Distance from the center of gravity of the kite to the center of mass for the tail weight) squared, and then times the mass of the tail weight.

After some flying this spring and early summer, I hope to explore the design aspects of a new breed of stunt kite.  Not sure where the path will lead me, but it will be a fun journey. ;)  As indicated by my posts on this great forum, I will be pleased share the results of my engineering efforts.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 and 62 - Flight Testing at the Kite Day in the Park
Post by: Doug S on May 04, 2014, 09:41 AM
Had a great time demonstrating various types of kite flying at the 24th Annual Kite Day in the Park, in Easton, PA.  Great group of people run this event for families and children new to kiting.  Had fun flying stunt kites at the beginning of the event, glider kites throughout the day and even my HQ Lutz Treczoks Cody War Kite when the wind was at its peak.  Spent most of the day flying the Bird of Prey 48 and 62 glider kites.

According to Weather Underground, the wind ranged from 5.8 to 12.7 mph during the event, with an average wind speed of 10.2 mph.  The wind direction was out of the south southwest.  The weather was perfect to test out the performance envelope of the larger and higher sail density BOPs.  Used 50 pound spectra line and both BOPs flew extremely well.  What was a pleasant surprise was the light line tension and responsiveness to minor changes in the line tension under the wide range of wind speeds.  Flew most of the time holding the flying line between just two fingers.  Even under the higher wind speeds for this type of design, the BOPs maintained their sail shape.  As a point of reference, I flew for a very short period of time the heavier framed version of the Rapere 48 canard glider kite when the wind was at a low point.  The Rapere 48 pulls like a tank on the climb, which is great for gaining altitude in light wind conditions.  What we observed was the BOPs were able to dump the excessive lift in the observed range of wind conditions, which in turn reduces the tension on the flying line.

The BOP 62 is very majestic and smooth in the air, and a real joy to fly.  Time just passes by flying this kite and you become very calm and relaxed.  Now on to the BOP 48, which has multiple personalities depending on how you handle the flying line.  With a light and smooth handling of the flying line, the BOP 48 fly’s exactly like the BOP 62.  The fun begins when you get aggressive with the flying line.  Quick changes in line tension and the BOP 48 is off climbing, diving, spinning and running down wind.  Right when the nose is pointed slightly off of direct downwind while gliding, you add a little line tension and the kite snaps around and climbs right back up to over your head.  Was able to do this snap turn many times with the kite just inches off of the ground.  The reason the BOP 62 is more stable is due to its size and our arms are not long enough to give the needed input.  Very pleased that the CST hollow carbon tube frames held up to my very heavy handed flying.  The BOP 48 fly’s just its little brother (BOP 24), but in higher wind conditions.  Attending kite flyers thought the BOP 48 flew like a large fighter kite, except the spins are horizontal to the ground like dual line old school axles.  The shape of the kite and direction of flight had many people asking what type of kite it was and why was it flying backwards.

Just want to thank two very nice kite flyers, Doug and Art, who spent quite a bit of time with me and the BOPs.  Also, Doug and his very nice wife were very instrumental in helping me assemble my Cody War Kite.  At various times during the day, I could not resist putting the BOP flying line in their hands.  Why should I have all of the fun.  They both were asking great questions and what better way to answer some of their questions was by their own experience in flying the kites.  Their calm expressions that turned into broad smiles made all of my development efforts worthwhile.  Later in the day, most of the fields were occupied by parents and kids flying newly made kites.  Doug and I looked at each other and just smiled.  We both wanted to fly the BOP 48 again and were trying to figure out where.  We found an area near the food pavilion and event tents, where the currently leafless trees would screen the wind a little to reduce the wind speeds.  Yes, we were looking for and flying next to trees and the BOPs love the air conditions.  Art joined us in this area and we had a great time.  We spend many hours throughout the day flying these kites.

In closing, the BOP 48 and 62 are very response glider kites for winds ranging from 0 to 5 mph and can park in the sky in winds up to 10 mph.  The unique shape provides several benefits that make this kite a real joy to fly.  I hope to get them back out in 0 to 5 mph smooth winds in the near future.

After all of this fun and at the request of others, I will revisit and simplify the PC31 sail pattern and build a few for other glider kite enthusiasts.  Based on our extensive flying of the BOP 48, this will be the size that I will initially build for others.  We just love its responsiveness to different flying styles.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - New Panel Layout
Post by: Doug S on May 06, 2014, 10:35 AM
The attached file provides my proposed new layout for the panels on the PC-31 version of the Bird of Prey 48.  The colors are my old favorite red, white and blue, with a black nose.  Time to add some curves to this kite.  Please let me know what you think of the layout.

Thank you,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScmRpT0ZERzloWmM)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - New Panel Layout
Post by: Doug S on May 06, 2014, 10:38 AM
The attached file provides a version that is more in line with our feathered friends.  This one is growing on me.  Comments are welcome.

Thank you,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUm5zcVRRaF9KZ0E)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: chilese on May 06, 2014, 11:21 AM
I really enjoy the forward swept wing look.

Very menacing.

Here is a very quick stab at adapting an eagle head to the shape.

It's very rough, but should give you an idea.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey - Plans to be Available in the Near Future
Post by: Doug S on May 07, 2014, 04:30 AM
Dear Fellow Kite Building Enthusiasts,

If you have been following my development of the Bird of Prey (BOP) glider kite, you will know that I am pleased with the design for the ultra-light and low wind versions of the kite.  In the spirit of sharing the joy of this design with others, I will post links in the near future with the plans for the BOP 24 made with Cuben fabric, and the BOP 48 made with PC31.  Please note that you will need the patients and finger dexterity of a Swiss watch maker to the build a BOP 24.  The following provides my conditions when I offer the plans:

•   When you download the plans for either design, you provide a financial contribution to this great kite forum.  When you complete your BOP, you post a picture or video on this great kite forum.

•   There will be a note on the plans that indicates the designs are not being offered for someone to build and sell the kite to others for a profit.

•   If you are not comfortable in building a BOP yourself, just send me a note and I will build one for you.  For the BOP 48, the color selection is up to you, with my guidance.  The reasonable fee I request for the construction of either BOP allows me to replace my building materials, so that I can continue my research efforts that brought you the Hawks, Raperes, and now the Birds of Prey.

As indicated in my previous posts, I am finalizing the plans for a new panel layout for the BOP 48, which I hope to have done in the near future.  I should be able to make the plans available before June of this year.  I will build a new BOP 48 using the new panel layout and post my progress and pictures on this great forum.

There are other sizes of the BOP, which are very rewarding to fly.  I may in the future offer the plans for the ultra-light BOP 36 and BOP 48 made with Cuben fabric, and the BOP 62 made with PC31.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24
Post by: Doug S on May 10, 2014, 11:40 AM
Four more Bird of Prey 24s out the door to fellow glider kite enthusiasts.  Will start finalizing the plans for the Bird of Prey 24, then work on the new layout for the Bird of Prey 48.  I am having a blast with the spline function in AutoCAD to generate nice curves for the panel seams.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZndBalhGSGpLQkk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on May 11, 2014, 12:14 PM
Doug,
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the BOP plans (PC31 48 size especially).  Your unique designs are a gift to the builder's community! 

waiting with excitement!

Stephen


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Latest Pattern Layout
Post by: Doug S on May 12, 2014, 07:39 AM
Stephen,

Thank you for your kind words.  I do enjoy developing these unique and well flying glider kites.

The attached file provides my latest pattern layout for the Bird of Prey 48, using my default red, white and blue colors, with a black nose.

Had fun using the Spline line drawing feature in AutoCAD, not to be confused with spline feature when editing a Polyline.  The Spline feature lets the line fitting equation draw the line through the line anchor points, which is not the case with the spline feature when editing a Polyline.  I also tried the good old Fit Curve feature when editing a Polyline, put it did not give me the same curve.  When using the Spline line drawing feature, I started at the trailing edge and worked to the leading edge.  Just to see what happens, I drew a second Spline line that started at the leading edge and ended at the trailing edge, using the same line anchor points.  The line had a different curve to it, which I did not like or use.

I think this is the pattern version I am going to go with for my new build and the plans.  If you have any other suggests, let me know.

Later,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZmVYbVo1Wm1Ra00)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Latest Pattern Layout
Post by: Doug S on May 12, 2014, 07:43 AM
Here is another color version of the proposed pattern, which allows the Bird of Prey 48 to look a little like our flying feathered friend, the Bald Eagle.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSSksxMVJnbWdkT00)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Latest Layout Pattern
Post by: Doug S on May 12, 2014, 07:50 AM
This color layout has the black, brown and tan colors reversed.  Please note on both versions with the bird type colors, the addition of yellow as the nose reinforcement.  One would add a layer of yellow PC31 over the dacron reinforcement material, which would be white.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSbFdpVEo1VVVPd3M)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36 and 48 Made with Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on May 18, 2014, 09:23 AM
Back on March 29, 2014 in Post 171, I indicated I reframed the Birds of Prey (BOP) 36 and 48 made with Cuben fabric using the CST carbon tubes.  Until yesterday, I haven't had the right weather conditions to really give them a thorough evaluation.  Yesterday, I finally had the right conditions early in the morning.  First up was the BOP 24 to check the weather conditions, then the BOP 36 and the BOP 48.  The BOP 48 is a good glider at the very light weight of 11.3 grams, with a sail loading of 0.0217 grams/square inch of sail area.  The climb is reasonable and it fly’s very smooth like its big brother the BOP 62, but I am still tinkering with this kite.  You will see why in a moment.  As a point of reference, the BOP 24 has a sail loading of 0.0208 grams/square inch of sail area.

Now we come to the BOP 36.  This glider is very light at 5.7 grams and had the lightest sail loading of all of the BOPs, at 0.0195 grams/square inch of sail area.  Even with the new 0.039 inch diameter CST carbon tube frame, the frame is just too small in diameter to be stiff enough for this kite when under load for a good climb.  Great glide, but just does not want to climb above 15 feet in no wind conditions.

The ideal carbon tube frame diameter would be around 0.05 inches, but no one makes one in that size.  I had a spare length of the CST 0.059 inch carbon tube in my work shop.  This carbon tube (0.508 grams/inch) is lighter than a carbon rod with a 0.05 inch diameter (0.0552 grams/inch), which would be the diameter I would try next.  My concern going to this larger diameter and stiffer frame is that the BOP 36 would be too ridged and not adjust to sail loads like the BOP 24 and the BOP 48 made with PC31.  I replaced the frame and the center joiner, which increased the overall weight of the kite by 1.45 grams for a total weight of 7.15 grams.  This is an increase of 25% in weight, with a new sail loading is 0.0245 grams/square inch of sail area.  As with the lighter frame, this glider kite did not required additional nose weight, which is a good thing.  The assemble BOP 36 is very stiff, but the trailing edge of the wing tips still can move under load.  At that time, I was concerned that I am taking the design in the wrong direction, using a much stiffer frame that caused a 25% increase in sail loading.

I flew the BOP 36 yesterday evening in no wind conditions and I am shocked about how well this kite fly’s!  The climb is outstanding and the glides are long and flat.  This kite went from being a floater to a real performer.  It’s very responsive to any changes in line tension, and I can spin this kite at altitude above my head in no wind conditions.  Based on this success, I may try a stiffer frame in the BOP 48 made with the Cuben fabric.

In closing, we strive to get our gliders as light as possible, but sometimes sacrifice the minimum frame stiffness needed for the kite to perform outside of a gentle flat glide.  With our glider kite designs, there also is a minimum sail loading that allows the kite to perform.  If we go below that minimum sail loading, we can sacrifice performance.  Since we try to design our kites around available materials, it’s an art to marry the right frame to the design, in order to obtain the maximum performance.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Kite Build
Post by: Doug S on May 18, 2014, 10:01 AM
The attached picture shows the PC31 panels cut out for the Bird of Prey 48, using the new pattern layout.  You can't see the white between the red and the blue.   The nose is charcoal in color, which is the color I used on the prior version.  The blue strips near the wing tips are the wing spar sleeves, also made from PC31.  Time to tape together the panels.

Due to the file size limitation of 100K, if you click on the picture, the edges will look jagged.  When I finish this kite, I will post a link to the pictures not in the reduced file size.

Later,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZUZ1OVpVNUR2YTQ)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 18, 2014, 10:57 AM
That looks great..... I love the curves..... Get sewing!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on May 19, 2014, 08:53 AM
I like the graphics!  Maybe I could build one of those...


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 20, 2014, 02:37 AM
Great work Doug. The BOP looks nice and I will have a go at making one when the plans come out.

Mike


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Kite Build
Post by: Doug S on May 20, 2014, 06:15 AM
Thank you for your kind words and interest.  I also really like the new panel layout.  Being old school and for your information, I hot cut out the panels.

I am currently on hold waiting for some minor parts for one of my vintage Singer sewing machines.  For most of my kite builds to date, I use a straight stitch with my vintage Singer 604.  For the Bird of Prey 48 with the new curved panels, I will be using a vintage Singer 645 that has been in storage for some time.  Unfortunately, the Singer 645 had a vinyl coated walking foot (aka soft foot), where the vinyl is now all gone.  My research online indicates this was a normal problem with this machine.  The recommendation online is to replace the walking foot with a conventional steel one with teeth.  The replacement part should be here by the end of this week.  Other than the problem with the walking foot, the Singer 645 is like brand new, with very little use and just needed a little cleaning and lubrication.  I also was able to obtain a multi-step zig zag cam (Simanco Cam 174527, Disc. No. 9) for this machine, which should be here by the end of the week.  The Singer 645 came with almost all of the other unique stitching cams, except the one I wanted.

Both of these vintage Singer machines are mostly steel, except for a few minor plastic parts.  For me, they are twins because they are built the same, except for the additional features of the 645, which makes servicing them very easy.  The Singer 604 has served me well through my kite building efforts and abuse to date.  My comments are not recommendations for these two sewing machines, but just my experience in what sewing machines are at my disposal as a fellow non-commercial/production kite builder.

I have all of the materials to tape or glue the panels together.  I am leaning towards using a glue stick for the panel assembly.  Thank you to stapp59 and sugarbaker for their guidance on this assembly step.  Should be back at the build this coming weekend.

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 20, 2014, 07:10 AM
oo...if you can get some Sugru that stuff would probably be awesome to re-squish that walking foot....supposed to be awesome stuff....

Wish i could get a good walking foot for my Singer 600....


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24 with Different Frames
Post by: Doug S on May 26, 2014, 07:34 AM
While waiting for the parts for my Singer 645, which just arrived, I finally constructed two Birds of Prey (BOP) with two different CST carbon frames.  My goal was to try a stiffer frame and a hollow carbon tube frame in the kite.

The attached picture shows my original/stock BOP 24 on the left with the black joiner, which has 0.03 in. carbon rods and weights 2.7 grams.  The BOP in the middle with the blue joiner has CST 0.033 in. carbon rods and weights 2.8 grams.  The BOP on the right with the white joiner has CST 0.028 inch carbon tubes and weights 2.4 grams.  The original BOP 24 was made from white Cuben fabric, where the other two BOP 24s are made from orange Cuben fabric.

They all fly great!  The one with the stiffer frame fly’s a little faster and covers the most ground, but is a little less forgiving in a tight turn due to the stiffness of the frame.  The one with the lighter frame is a joy to fly, where the frame is slightly stiffer than the stock BOP.  The stock BOP is still a great glider kite to fly!  Note the different length of the 0.08 inch carbon tube used as nose weight for each BOP.  I have the glide slope about the same for each BOP, but may still tinker with location of the center of gravity.

Later,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSYjJ6ckZBMmpKQ1U)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36 - Tribute Video for Memorial Day
Post by: Doug S on May 26, 2014, 03:38 PM
Fellow Glider Kite Flyers,

The following provides a link for a little video I put together for Memorial Day.  The kite is a Bird of Prey 36.

MP4 Format:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY05oSlp0UnY2SkU/edit?usp=sharing

WMV Format:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb2lyQVFWb1E0RzQ/edit?usp=sharing

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 26, 2014, 04:25 PM
that is awesome....
at 1:23 was that gust of wind that took the kite away?
That looks great Doug..well done!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36 - Tribute Video for Memorial Day
Post by: Doug S on May 26, 2014, 04:37 PM
Thief,

Thank you and yes that was a gust!  I recorded the video early yesterday morning, and the wind went from dead calm to light and choppy.  The wind was coming over and around our home, which would be on the left side of the video.  Not bad for a 36 inch glider kite that only weighs only 7.15 grams, with the upgraded and stiffer CST 0.079 inch carbon tube frame.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 27, 2014, 01:59 AM
Yes that does look pretty nice Doug, cool kite.

Mike


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 made from PC31
Post by: Doug S on May 29, 2014, 08:41 AM
The Singer 645 has been serviced and the new metal walking foot is great!  Very nice sewing machine with very little run time.

Will put the panels together and start sewing the Bird of Prey 48 tomorrow.  Hope to have this kite in the air before next weekend.  Once it’s dialed in, I will finalize and post the link to the plans.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 and ACS Relay for Life
Post by: Doug S on June 01, 2014, 09:46 AM
It was a late night yesterday, or should I say an early morning, but I was able to complete all of the sewing on the Bird of Prey 48.  The Singer 645 is good for the zig zag stitching, but I went back to my old reliable Singer 604 to complete the remaining straight stitching.  The walking foot on the Singer 645 has an extra small foot in the center behind the needle, which is a problem if you want to back stitch our thin sail materials.  I did use the Singer 645 for the straight stitching around the edges, which worked fine.  Serviced my old Singer 604, and it worked flawlessly on the remaining straight stitching.

Will complete the framing and assemble the BOP 48 today and post some pictures.  Can’t wait to get this one in the air, because it looks so cool.  Once it’s assembled and the amount of nose weight has been selected for the desired center of gravity, I will complete the minor revisions to the plans, add the building notes and post the link.  The actual build for this BOP has been fast for me because of the following event.

Over the past few years, most of my kite building activities, which include this BOP, are for the American Cancer Society (ACS) Relay Event for Life (RFL), held at the Mt. Olive High School in Flanders, New Jersey.  This years’ event will be next weekend on June 7 and 8, 2014.  My involvement with this event is very personal.  Eight years ago, my closest friend and spouse for over 31 years, Eileen, was diagnosed with breast cancer.  After two surgeries, follow up radiation treatment, and the associated emotional roller coaster ride for the entire family, she will be celebrating her 8th year as a cancer survivor.

If you have been following this thread of posts, you will notice that I have built a few custom kites (Rapere and Eagle) to fly or display at this event, as shown in the attached picture.  This event has been my inspiration for the glider kites that I have been sharing with all of you on this forum.  Most of my ultra-light efforts are for flying at this event, if the night air is still or if the weather moves us indoors.

If you have an ACS RFL event in your area, by all means, please attend and bring the joy of kiting to the event.  Kiting has a way of lifting everyone’s state of mind.  If you live in driving distance of northern New Jersey, come on by and join us.  The following provides the link our event.

http://relay.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLCY14EA?fr_id=57002&pg=entry (http://relay.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLCY14EA?fr_id=57002&pg=entry)

My family’s team is Bracelets for a Cure, which is run by my daughter, Christina, and Eileen.  If you wish to attend, just drop me a note.  If you wish join and/or donate to our team, the link is provided below:

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR?team_id=1582256&fr_id=57002&pg=team (http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR?team_id=1582256&fr_id=57002&pg=team)

Thank you for your consideration,

Doug


(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUm1Qak1OMC1TUVE)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Completed with the New Sail Pattern
Post by: Doug S on June 02, 2014, 11:34 AM
The attached picture is the completed Bird of Prey 48 with the new PC31 sail pattern.  Looks nice with the curves.  ;)  Due to the change in the type of panel seams, was able to save 1.1 grams over the prototype.  This version weighs 30.7 grams, has a sail loading of 0.0591 grams/square inch of sail area, and fly’s just like the prototype. ;D

Time to finish the plans.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSb2gxM1hNX1d1QmM)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on June 02, 2014, 12:24 PM
yah...those curves are awesome! now go fly some curves!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on June 02, 2014, 01:05 PM
Looks great!

Mike



Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 Plans and Pictures
Post by: Doug S on June 06, 2014, 08:16 PM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

If you have been following my development of the Bird of Prey swept forward wing glider kites, you will know that I am pleased with the design for the ultra-light and low wind versions of the kite.  In the spirit of sharing the joy of this design with other glider kite enthusiasts, the following provides my requests and the links to the Bird of Prey 48 made with PC31.


Requests:

•   When you download the plans, please provide a financial contribution to this great kite forum.

•   When you complete your Bird of Prey 48, please post a picture or video of your kite on this great kite forum.

•   There is a note on the plans that indicates the plans are not being offered for someone to build and sell the kite to others for a profit.


Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Specifications Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZjNnYWE5ODVjR3c/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZjNnYWE5ODVjR3c/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Layout for PC31 Sail Material Plan (Updated November 12, 2014:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY2dVUWNQNjFXVFE/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY2dVUWNQNjFXVFE/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Patterns for PC31 Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMXZFVFNBQlhnRTQ/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMXZFVFNBQlhnRTQ/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – File to Select Colors:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdFpxMDJVSWRpQ00/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSdFpxMDJVSWRpQ00/edit?usp=sharing)


Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Front View Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSUUtJT09YMDFpNXM/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSUUtJT09YMDFpNXM/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Nose Detail, Front of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSYy1fMnRSZC15NGc/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSYy1fMnRSZC15NGc/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Nose Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScXVidnluNHVHY2s/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScXVidnluNHVHY2s/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Front End Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSUTBkZ1N4cVAzd0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSUTBkZ1N4cVAzd0E/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Center Joiner Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQnJjQUJYR1lEd0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQnJjQUJYR1lEd0E/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Tail Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSakRKTHE3MVdjUUk/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSakRKTHE3MVdjUUk/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Wing Spar Dihedral Line Detail, Left Side, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSaVcyVGx4Nmw0MTg/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSaVcyVGx4Nmw0MTg/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 48 – Wing Tip Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWnlwYWstX3Qtc0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWnlwYWstX3Qtc0k/edit?usp=sharing)


If you are not comfortable building a Bird of Prey 48 yourself, just send me a note and I will build one for you.  The color selection is up to you, with my guidance.  The reasonable fee I request for the construction the Bird of Prey 48 allows me to replace my building materials, so that I can continue my research efforts that brought you the Hawks, Raperes, and now the Birds of Prey.

I am in the process of finishing the detailed plans for the Bird of Prey 24 made with Cuben fabric, and will post the link in the near future.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUUtJT09YMDFpNXM)


Title: Doug Stout's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on June 08, 2014, 12:04 PM
It was a very successful American Cancer Society’s (ACS) Relay for Life (RFL) event in Mount Olive, New Jersey this weekend, which just finished at dawn this morning.  Just wanted to drop this note after getting a few hours of sleep.

Was able to get some quality air time on the Birds of Prey during the evening and early morning hours.  Flew my two Bird of Prey 48s in the evening, under very light wind conditions.  They do like just a little light wind to really perform, and can easily handle winds above 5 mph.  :D

After midnight, I put together and flew the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36.  This is the one I used to record the Memorial Day video.  With the calm, damp and cool night air, I had a blast and cannot ask any more from a glider kite than what this one can do. ;D

When I post the Plans for the ultra-light Bird of Prey 24, I also will be posting the plans for the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36.  They are built the same, except for the larger size and larger diameter carbon frame.

If you are unsure what to build, here are my suggestions:

•   Small indoor areas and outdoors with calm to light winds:  Bird of Prey 24
•   Large indoor areas, such as a gym, and outdoors with calm to light winds:  Bird of Prey 36
•   Outdoors with light winds:  Bird of Prey 48

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on June 16, 2014, 02:37 PM
Thank you to the fellow glider enthusiasts who have asked for me to build a few Birds of Prey (BOP) for them.  Construction is progressing quite nicely. ;)

If you are waiting for me to post the plans for the ultra-light BOP 24 and 36, there will be slight delay.  I am still updated the plans to incorporate my current building techniques, such as using PC31 and double sided tape, instead tedlar tape, for the batten pockets and other minor reinforcements.

I finally had a few moments and replaced the 0.059 with 0.079 inch diameter carbon tubes in the ultra-light BOP 48 made with Cuben.  This glider kite now has the same frame as the BOP 48 made with PC31.  The weight went up quite a bit, from 11.3 to 15.4 grams, but so did the performance. ;D

The Cuben version is now about half of the weight of the PC31 version at 31.8 grams and is now a great glider kite.  I had an incredible evening yesterday with the ultra-light BOP 36 and BOP 48 glider kites in zero to very light wind conditions.  The ultra-light BOP 48, as I currently have it trimmed, is the slowest glider kite I have ever flown.  I can walk faster than this kite!  The BOP 36 is still my favorite and my bench mark for how a glider kite should fly and be responsive to the glider pilot's line inputs.

Also replaced the 0.098 with 0.118 inch diameter carbon tubes in the BOP 62 made with PC31.  I wanted to see if I could make this glider kite a little stiffer and more responsive.  The weigh increase was minor, from 52.5 to 54.8 grams.  When I have time, will test fly this glider kite in some light to moderate wind conditions.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on June 22, 2014, 09:39 AM
Decided to take my entire Bird of Prey (BOP) single line glider kite family outside for a group picture.  :D

•  Front Row:  Original BOP 24 made with black PC31.

•  Second Row:  Ultra-light BOP 24s made with white Cuben.

•  Third Row:   Ultra-light BOP 24s made with orange Cuben and CST DPP Carbon frames (Hollow and Solid).

•  Four Row:  Ultra-light BOP 48 made with orange Cuben and ultra-light BOP 36 made with white Cuben.

•  Rear and standing:  BOP 62 and BOP 48 in the fighter pattern layout, and BOP 48 in the bird pattern layout.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWFd0MDBwb0F5a1U)


Title: How to print Bird of Prey 48 to smaller paper
Post by: Doug S on June 25, 2014, 06:46 AM
One our fellow kite building enthusiasts asked how to print the Bird of Prey 48 plans to smaller paper.  I found the following link that allowed me to print to letter or A4 size paper.

http://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/print-posters-banners-acrobat-reader.html (http://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/print-posters-banners-acrobat-reader.html)

The key settings that I used are as followings:

  •  Tile Scale:  Leave this at 100%, otherwise you will change the size of the kite.
  •  Overlap:  I set this to 0.5 inches, since the printer cannot print to the edge of the paper.
  •  Cut marks:  Check the box, since these marks will help you align the pages.
  •  Labels:  Check the box
  •  Tile only large pages:  Check the box

The actual Bird of Prey 48 plans are full size and setup to print to a large printer, which uses a roll of 30 inch wide paper.  I am aware that other kite building enthusiast print out their full size plans at Kinkos.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on July 13, 2014, 09:41 AM
Building a few Birds of Prey (BOP) for others.  The attached picture is a BOP 36 on its way to the west coast.  ;D

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeFd4SXpZMllXMk0)


Title: Fun Fly at Overpeck Park, Bergen County, New Jersey - July 19, 2014
Post by: Doug S on July 13, 2014, 09:48 AM
Kurtis Jones posted the following fun fly on Facebook, which I hope to attend:

Flash Fly - " Its a Great Day to Fly Kites "

A unofficial kite event, no sponsors, no sound, no registration, no boundaries, no competition, no pressure, no money needed.

Come with any kind of kite and any kind of people.  Make a kite, dig out that old dusty kite from the attic, buy a new kite, borrow a kite (OPK), share a kite, whatever.  Just get your hands on a kite.

This is an unofficial event.  You are responsible for everything including having a good time.

When:  July 19, 1pm
Rain Date:  July 20, 1pm
Location:
  The New Overpeck Park
  Fort Lee Road
  Leonia, New Jersey
  https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8571465,-74.0089872,19z (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8571465,-74.0089872,19z)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48 - Problems with Singer 645 Again
Post by: Doug S on July 15, 2014, 09:34 AM
I am trying to finish a very nice Bird of Prey (BOP) 48 for a local kite flyer, but my Singer 645 is acting up again.  The test zigzag stitching on scraps of PC31 showed the lower part of the stitch was loose, but not at every stitch, which is very strange.  It doesn't do this when I sew straight stitches.  Tried to adjust the lower tension at the bobbin, but that didn't make a difference.  Now the thread is getting caught around the bobbin case.  It appears the original position bracket is not holding the bobbin case in place.  Ordered some replacement parts and the service manual from Sewing Parts Online.  Will also service the top tension system and try a different bobbin.  It was a late night with no foward progress.  Are we having fun yet?  ::)

The good news is that the BOP 48 will not be touched by this Singer 645 until this problem is fixed.   :) 

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on July 15, 2014, 10:49 AM
I had some weirdness with my Pfaff for a while: dropped stitches, occasional jams, tension issues.  Very annoying. Took off the foot plate and covers around the hook area and found loose thread pieces and such that needed cleaned out.  Much better now.  Hope you find whatever it is...


Title: Repairs continue on the Singer 645
Post by: Doug S on July 16, 2014, 07:58 AM
Thanks Steve.  The Singer 645 had very little use before I acquired it from a family member, which may be part of the problem.  Other than being an older machine, it’s like brand new regarding wear and tear.

No loose threads below the foot plate, other than the mess I made a couple of times when it jammed.  Opps  :-[  For some unknown reason, the bobbin case seems to be binding a little in the rotating hook, but I didn’t see any burs in the guides.  I polished and oiled the guides and it appears to be better.  Waiting for a new position bracket that holds the bobbin case in the back, which was bent and I broke the tip off trying to straighten it.  Opps again.  :-[  It was a chrome plated cast piece of steel, where the one in my Singer 604 is a stamped piece of steel.  The replacement is a stamped piece of steel.  I also will replace the bobbin tension spring arm, which appears a little weak because it's not allowing me to apply enough tension on the bobbin.

There is a great website to trouble shoot sewing machines at:  http://www.tandtrepair.com/index.html. (http://www.tandtrepair.com/index.html.)  One of the articles indicates the upper tension system maybe where my problem is with this machine.  I took apart the upper tension section of the machine last night and saw a little residual film on the tension disks.  I cleaned them with alcohol, but they are still dull.  Tonight I will polish the tension disks.  The tension indicator knob is made of cast aluminum with a steel set screw.  After loosening the set screw, it took the aluminum treads with it.  Will tap out the hole and use a slightly larger set screw.  Also order the complete assembly just in case.  Most of the new parts are interchangeable between my Singer 604 and 645, which is why I am investing so much time to get the 645 working correctly.

Also ordered two new Teflon feet for my Singer 604 and 645 to give them a try.  Always wanted to be a sewing machine mechanic.  :D  Are we having fun yet.  ;)

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on July 16, 2014, 06:44 PM
Ugh on the machine problems.  :(  I'd be tempted to find a good repair shop in your area and have them give it a good going over and test with some scraps of kite fabric.  Hard to build kites with an unreliable machine.  :'(

Unless you are having fun  :D


Title: Repairs to Singer 645 and Bird of Prey 48
Post by: Doug S on July 17, 2014, 08:39 AM
Steve,

My Plan B is to take the Singer 645 to a local shop that we trust.  Having three engineering degrees, and rebuilt a few car engines and the out drive on my power boat, the problem with the Singer 645 intrigues me, since it’s barely been used.  I am having fun, but if the new parts and a new setup following the service manual don’t work, it will go in the shop.  I have sewn many kites since the 1990s with the Singer 604, and other than minor adjustments and maintenance, it has worked perfectly.  That is why I am willing to put the time and money into the Singer 645, since it’s one of the upper models in the old 600 series line and built like a tank.

My disappointment is that I am trying to finish the Bird of Prey 48 for Art, who is a local kite flyer.  The attached picture is of his kite before I glued the panels together.  It has a white nose that you can't see when placed on the pattern layout drawing.  If needed, I will locate another quality sewing machine that can perform the multi-step zigzag stitch to finish those stitches on Art’s kite, then use the Singer 604 for the remaining straight stitches.  You are only as good as your tools.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWkF0RXdvXzNrTjg)


Title: Repairs to Singer 645 and Larger Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on August 03, 2014, 02:50 PM
I made my first set of repairs and adjustments to the Singer 645, but found the real problem.  In the Singer 600 Series Touch & Sew, the early models had steel gears, such as in my 604.  After the initial low model numbers (60X), Singer changed to plastic gears.  In my Singer 645, the top vertical gear lost a few teeth.

Contacted Terry at http://www.tandtrepair.com/index.html (http://www.tandtrepair.com/index.html) and he help me out.  Since I am going to have to tear down the 645 to get to the broken gear, I might as well replace all of the key gears.  From Terry, I ordered a complete set of gears and his instructions on how to replace them and retime the sewing machine.  Unfortunately, I can only replace the plastic gears with an updated version of plastic gears.  Now I know why the call the Singer Touch & Sew series “Touch & Throw”. :D

While in the service mode, I took apart my Singer 604 and polished the upper tension disks, and the lower bobbin case.  Re-setup the upper and lower tensions and bobbin case gaps using the Singer's Service Manual and Terry's free online guides.  Even replaced the stock steel presser foot with a Teflon presser foot.  Confirmed that the 604 has steel gears and applied a thin layer of grease.  Did the same service on the 645, until I found the broken gear.  With the 604, I ran a few stitch passes on a strip of PC-31 to redial in the tensions.  I really like how the Singer 604 does a straight stitch and that it has steel gears. ;D

While on hold to finish Art’s Bird of Prey (BOP) 48, I started tinkering with a larger version of the BOP.  I scaled up the design to use 40 inch one piece wing spars, which would cause the wing span to be 76 inches.  Since I like patriotic colors and the wing span includes two of the numbers in 1776, I got carried away and designed the attached layout.  Due to the resolution of Microsoft Paint, the attached layout doesn’t allow me to show what I will do with the eyes.  Each eye will have a black center with a yellow outer ring, and a gray tear drop area around each eye, like the eyes of a Bald Eagle.  Still tinkering with the layout.  Will need the Singer 645 working to sew this kite.  I also have a scale up version of my Fighter layout with two more panels, which I could build using my Singer 604.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSR19vRHVPbjNfN2M)


Title: Larger Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on August 03, 2014, 02:54 PM
The attached layout is the larger version of the Bird of Prey in the original Drone layout, with two additional panels.  I do have the desire to design and build one with a wing span between 8 and 9 feet.  ;)

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSRU5wQlRMeE0yUms)


Title: Bird of Prey 24 and 36 Plans - To be Post in the Near Future
Post by: Doug S on August 04, 2014, 05:26 AM
Just to let you know that I didn't forget, I will be finishing up the plans for the ultra-light Bird of Prey (BOP) 24 and 36 in the near future and posting the plans on this website.  I have been a little distracted with sewing machine repairs and projects around my home.

As a reminder, the BOP 36 is my favorite for ultra-light gliding, and is a joy to fly to music.  The few BOP 36s that I have built for others fly like a dream.  I have a second BOP 36 on the building table for me.  The BOP 24 is a fun little ultra-light glider to play with in smaller areas or outside in light wind conditions.  I am in the process of building a BOP 24 for Steve as a gift for allowing me to share my designs on this great website.  Both of these BOPs keep me entertained for hours.

Regarding my development of a larger version, if anyone has a size in mind, please let me know.  With the new frame in the BOP 62, it fly’s very well, which is the reason I wish to experiment with a larger version.  When you design a kite, you work around existing frame lengths and stiffness, which is why the 76 is being considered due to 40 inch wing spars.  I also can obtain one piece hollow tube wing spars that are two meters in length.  As I go bigger, I need to fabricate the unique center joiner that allows the wing spars to go forward and upward.  Ultimately I would like to build one around the size of my other large conventional gliders, which have wing spans of 96 inches.  Once I get my Singer 645 back up and running, I can finish Art’s BOP 48 and then build a larger version.  If the larger version fly’s as expected, I would make the plans available on this website.

Also, if anyone is interested in the plans for the Fighter/Drone panel layout for the BOP-48 or BOP-62, just let me know.  This version is a lot more work to build due to the plan seams, but is sewn with all straight stitches.  This is my favorite construction technique.

Later,

Doug


Title: Engineering for a Larger Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on August 06, 2014, 11:59 AM
As indicated in my recent posts, I have the desire to build a larger version of the Bird of Prey (BOP).  With my engineering background, I am in the process of estimating various sizes of the Bird of Prey, based on the stiffness and lengths of available carbon tubes.

The following is a little technical regarding my efforts to date with small diameter pultruded carbon tubes (0.033 to 0.098 inch in diameter), so please read on if you are interested.  If anyone else has done the following, please let me know.

After performing some research, I calculated the Moment of Inertia (MI) for the various small diameter pultruded carbon tubes, where I have various sizes in my possession.  Using the manufactures’ reported Modulus of Elasticity (E) values, I calculated the anticipated deflection for each carbon tube at a given length.  When I compare the results to my deflection measurements, I observed my deflection measurements were slightly higher (more deflection) than my calculations.  In speaking with one of the carbon tube suppliers, the E values are what was provide to them by the manufacture and may represent the E of the raw material.  Based on this, it is my assumption that one should expect lower E values in each completed carbon tube.  By using my deflection measurements, I calculated the actual E value for each small diameter pultruded carbon tube in my possession.  My deflection measurements and associated calculations indicate the CST DPP pultruded carbon tubes are approximately 35% stiffer than then pultruded carbon tubes provided by other kite vendors.  Also, my calculations indicate the calculated E value for CST DPP pultruded carbon tubes is approximately 23% lower than the E value published by CST, which is not unexpected.

Now for the fun part, I also was looking for a simple mathematical relationship between the diameter of a carbon tube and the sail area of my BOPs.  I have experimented with various carbon tube frames in my four BOPs, with wing spans of 24, 36, 48 and 62 inches, as discussed in prior posts.  Using the selected carbon tube for each BOP, I was able to see a linear relationship with a very high correlation (R2 = 0.9993) between the sail area of each BOP and the associated cross sectional area of the selected carbon tube.  I also used the information for the frames that I no longer have in each BOP, and in most cases the results indicate that the frames did not have sufficient cross sectional area for the associated sail area of the BOP.  In the one case where the cross sectional area was greater for a BOP-48, the carbon tube was not durable and would split under load at the joiner.

With this information, I can now take the specifications for a manufacture’s specific pultruded carbon tube and estimate the appropriate sail area for a larger BOP.  Since each BOP has the same shape, the relationship between the sail area and wing span is a constant, which also allows me to estimate the associated wing span for each carbon tube.  The work indicated above and in the attached chart are my efforts to this point in time.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSOHZnMjRNZkgwT00)


Title: Singer 645 - Works Like Brand New
Post by: Doug S on August 10, 2014, 11:51 AM
I received the replacement gears for the Singer 645 on Friday.  Since I would have to take the machine apart to replace the one broken gear, I also would replace the lower four gears just in case.  The repairs only took me a few hours, which included resetting up the machine using the factory service manual.  Works like brand new!  Still will use the Singer 604 for straight stitching, since it has the steel gears.

Now I can finish Art's Bird of Prey 48!

Update:  With the Singer 645, I now fit the definition of “Insanity” by Albert Einstein in “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”  After replacing the gears and resetting up the machine, I tried to do a 3-step zigzag stitch on a scrap of PC31, and broke a tooth off the top vertical gear again.  In replacing the gears, I repaired the damage, but did not fix what was causing the damage.  Thinking ahead, I purchased the replacement gears with the 45-day warranty and I am now getting a new gear free.  Terry also sent me very detail instructions on how to trouble shoot my problem, which we believe is in the upper and cam area of the Singer 645.  With this down time, I was able to finish and post the plans for the Bird of Prey 24 and 36.  Enjoy!

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24 - Construction Plans
Post by: Doug S on August 19, 2014, 04:06 PM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

If you have been following my development of the Bird of Prey swept forward wing glider kites, you will know that I am pleased with the design for the ultra-light and low wind versions of this kite.  In the spirit of sharing the joy of this design with other glider kite enthusiasts, the following provides my modest requests and the links to my Bird of Prey 24 made with Cuben Fabric.

Requests:

•   When you download the plans, please provide a financial contribution to this great kite forum.

•   When you complete your Bird of Prey 24, please post a picture or video of your kite on this great kite forum.

•   There is a note on the plans that indicates the plans are not being offered for someone to build and sell the kite to others for a profit.

Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Specifications Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSYWk3Vk03eDhWbTg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSYWk3Vk03eDhWbTg/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQ0xwTFU2MlljMms/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQ0xwTFU2MlljMms/view?usp=sharing)

Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Nose and Nose Weight Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTk4yN1BQbEtXVzA/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTk4yN1BQbEtXVzA/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Center Joiner Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTzBReF9teDd3RlE/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTzBReF9teDd3RlE/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Right Tip and Batten Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQXVNZVZTbE1DaGs/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQXVNZVZTbE1DaGs/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Tail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQXFMb0drczhFaUk/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQXFMb0drczhFaUk/edit?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSbV9mT2lxNTRQMU0)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36 - Construction Plans
Post by: Doug S on August 21, 2014, 08:04 PM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

The following provides the links to my Bird of Prey 36 made with Cuben Fabric.  For ultra-light gliding, this one is my favorite.  Enjoy!

Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Specifications Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTEZuQ1Itc3RCQkk/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTEZuQ1Itc3RCQkk/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric Plan (Updated November 12, 2104:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNGphLWFzQTN5UFE/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNGphLWFzQTN5UFE/view?usp=sharing)

Please provide a financial contribution to this great kite forum if you choose to download the plans.

Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose and Nose Weight Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScUJRWlVJSTlfQnc/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScUJRWlVJSTlfQnc/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Center Joiner Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNnRwcU5Ec2ctZFU/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNnRwcU5Ec2ctZFU/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Right Tip and Batten Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa2dMOXdhX2dfRWc/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa2dMOXdhX2dfRWc/edit?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Tail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbkt5TWR4WnQ0LWM/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbkt5TWR4WnQ0LWM/edit?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeFd4SXpZMllXMk0)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24 and 36 - Pictures and Plans Minor Update
Post by: Doug S on August 22, 2014, 07:21 AM
The posts with the Bird of Prey 24 and 36 plans now have the links for pictures to help you build the kite, if you so desire.  Also, I made minor changes to the construction plans for both kites, so if you previously downloaded the plans, please do so again.  On the Bird of Prey 24, I changed the stitching lines for the nose and tail to a dashed lines.  On the Bird of Prey 36, I added the missing stop below the center joiner, and updated the list of materials accordingly.
;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Art's Bird of Prey 48
Post by: Doug S on September 01, 2014, 08:44 PM
The attached picture is of Art's custom Bird of Prey 48.  Art also will be receiving a Bird of Prey 24 and 36.  Delivery is tomorrow.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScmpnb1Q0LWhQYlE)


Title: Art's Bird of Prey 24 and 36
Post by: Doug S on September 01, 2014, 08:48 PM
The attached picture is of Art's Bird of Prey 24 and 36.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUy1yU0hiTVhJWkk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on September 02, 2014, 04:17 AM
They look nice Doug!


Title: Art's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on September 02, 2014, 07:49 AM
Steve,

Thank you.  I am going to miss Art's three Birds of Prey (BOP) hanging in my workshop for a period of time, due to the problems with my Singer 645.  I stitched the zigzag on Art's BOP 48 with my wife's machine, then finished his kite with my Singer 604.  Attached is another picture of Art's BOP 48.  I have the replacement top end gear for my Singer 645, and will try and find out why the machine is binding when the zigzag cam is engaged.

I test fly each of my builds before providing them to their new owners.  I test flew Art's BOP 48 yesterday and I have one word to describe the flight:  Wow!  I really like how these glider kites perform, but I am a little bias.  :D

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSR0ZDUmc4bEJ5UFk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: atbflyer on September 02, 2014, 05:15 PM
Picked the kites up tonight.
Wow, incredible workmanship! And attention to detail.
Cant wait till vacation next week to get these some flying time.

Doug is a super nice person to deal with and ask questions.
Look forward to the next idea...
Thanks
Art


Title: Art's Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on September 02, 2014, 06:06 PM
Art,

You are welcome. ;D

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Birds of Prey 24, 36 and 48 - Minor Specification Plans Update
Post by: Doug S on September 03, 2014, 04:30 PM
I just revised the links to access the updated specification plans for the Bird of Prey 24, 36 and 48.  The update to each plan was very minor, as indicated below:

•   Bird of Prey 24 - Added the small Cuben reinforcement to the area where the wing spars enter the wing spar sleeves.

•   Bird of Prey 36 - Added the small Cuben reinforcement to the area where the wing spars enter the wing spar sleeves.

•   Bird of Prey 48 - Replaced the two values for the length of the wing spars with the single value of 25 1/8 inches.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on September 09, 2014, 02:45 PM
Just finished and printed out the sail template patterns for a 96 inch wing span version of my Bird of Prey.  The wing span was selected to allow a full 32.5 inch wrapped tapered carbon tube to be used for the outer wing spar, from the aerodynamic center for each panel to the associated wing tip.  The center of the joiner to connect the inner and outer wing spars will be the attachment point for the wing spar line, which provides the dihedral for this kite.  I will make the kite using six colors of PC31 over the 16 various panels.  I have decided to use the attached pattern/color layout.  As with the BOP 48 and 62 using this layout, I will add white pin stripping to accent the simulated cockpit.  This will be my fall construction project and fun to build.  Looking at the printed out template patterns, this is one big glider kite.  ;D

Update:  After sleeping on it, increased the wing span to 96 inches (a full 8 feet) as indicated above.  I like even numbers and have room at the tips for the extra distance.  :D

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSRnpzMnhlRHlKckU)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 Plans Update (Minor)
Post by: Doug S on September 26, 2014, 08:31 AM
I just revised the link to access the updated specification plan for the Bird of Prey 36.  The updates to the plan were minor, as indicated below:

    •   The PC-31 inserts for the tip battens were correct in the drawing, but too long in the template.  Revised the template, which inserts are the same size as for the Bird of Prey 24.

    •   The length of the stops is 1/16 inches that were correct in the drawing, but not in the description.  Revised the text under the Material List for the stops.

The attached picture is of a Bird of Prey 24 and 36 Ultralights that I just completed.  The Bird of Prey 24 is for Steve Hall, as a thank you for this great Forum.  The Bird of Prey 36 is for a glider flyer in Washington State.  I hope they enjoy them. ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZG5PX1F1VFFxRUU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on September 27, 2014, 05:49 AM
Sooo how many have you built now?  :P


Title: Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on September 27, 2014, 07:20 AM
Steve,

Good question.  As of this week, I have built 25 Birds of Prey, with 11 for me and 14 for other glider kite enthusiasts.  I will start the new BOP 96 in the near future, which will be my 12th one for me (No. 26).  I need to pick up some more PC31.

I test fly each BOP before sending them to their new homes.  It’s a little hard letting each one leave the nest because they each fly so well, but I am a little biased.  I test flew the last two BOPs last night with the front light on and had a blast!  ;D

FYI, I have built 60 glider kites since August 18, 2010, when I became interested in this type of kiting, with 38 for me and 22 for other glider kite enthusiasts.  I am a little addicted to this type of kiting.  :D

Later,

Doug


Title: Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on October 14, 2014, 02:19 PM
Just completed an ultra-light BOP 36 for me that just went to a good home in upstate New York.  Enjoy it Bob.

Have started building another ultra-light BOP 36 for me this week.  I have the patterns for the BOP 96 done.  Just need to order more PC31.

Got the itch to build a PC31 version of the BOP 36 to fly in low to moderate winds outside.  Have three sets of patterns to choose from.  A simple one with 4 panels and straight seams, a smaller version of the Bird Pattern with 5 panels, and the Fighter Pattern I will use for the BOP 96 that has 16 panels.  To have more than one color and accent the shape of the kite, but keep the weight down, I have decided to use the Bird Pattern.  Have the PC31 cutout and will begin sewing it this week.

The attached picture is of the BOP 36s in construction, with the PC31 one on the left and the Cuben one on the right.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSU0NZQ1hmV0M0YU0)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 Made from PC31
Post by: Doug S on October 27, 2014, 06:56 AM
Just finished the sail for a Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 made from PC31.  This one was made from some scraps of PC31 and the kite must know it, because this build has been challenging.  Not due to the materials or the design, just my brain being asleep causing me to undo and redo things.  The construction is the same as the BOP 48, except with 3/16 instead of 1/4 inch overlapping seams that connect the panels together, where I used a straight stitch instead of a zigzag stitch.  Aligning, gluing and sewing the sail panels together was easy.  I got into trouble (brain asleep) on the reinforcements and edging.

Will build the frame tonight.  Same frame as the BOP 36 made from Cuben, using the 0.059 inch OD CST DPP Carbon Tubes for the Center Spine and Wing Spars.  Using 0.02 instead of 0.01 inch OD carbon rods for the battens, due to the stiffness of the PC31.

I hope to get some air time on this glider before the end of the week.  This BOP 36 should be a hotter flying version of the Cuben version, for more aggressive flying (more weight = higher sail loading = faster gliding speed).

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSS2NuamR2Y2tORlE)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on October 27, 2014, 10:41 AM
You know Doug,

I do have a few 0.004 boron fibre sticks laying around :)
I wonder if it would be possible to build on of those, maybe a 12 inch version, and making the sail in 4g/m2 mylar.
I guess it would be a very very delicate work.


Title: Potential Bird of Prey with a 12 inch wing span
Post by: Doug S on October 27, 2014, 11:19 AM
ae,

Very interesting idea.  How does the boron fiber compare in stiffness to carbon?  A Bird of Prey (BOP) with an assembled wing span of 12 inches would have a sail area of 31 square inches.  Based on my calculations, the cross sectional area of the carbon rod would need to be at least 0.00018 square inches, which is a diameter of at least 0.015 inches.  If I were to build a BOP 12, I would use 0.02 inch diameter carbon rod for the center spine and wing spars, with 0.01 inch diameter carbon rod for the battens.  We have found the BOPs fly better with a stiffer frame, as indicated in my prior posts.

If you are interested, I could scale down a BOP for you that would have a constructed wing span of 12 inches.  Just let me know.  All of my designs are drafted in AutoCAD, so it would be easy to do.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on October 27, 2014, 01:50 PM
Ooooo....I know some of the miniature flyers near me used boron wire... Supposed to be seriously stiff for its size!


Title: Potential Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on October 27, 2014, 02:06 PM
thief,

So it looks like we also are going to build a small Bird of Prey with a 12 inch wing span.  ;D  Please let me know who I can speak with about the boron material, specifications and potential sources.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on October 27, 2014, 04:32 PM
Hi Doug,

The boron wire is serious stiff, a lot more so then carbon at the same size.
One also has be to be very careful when handling it, it is not brittle, but it can shatter and the broken off parts can stick very very well into skin, for example your fingers.

i would love to give a small one a try in building, should be very interesting.

You can get boron wire at indoorspecialties as well as extra thin film.


Title: Potential Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on October 28, 2014, 09:00 AM
ae,

I spoke with Ray at Indoor Specialties today.  I am an old model airplane flyer, so we had a lot to talk about.  Ray was very curious about our glider kites.

Regarding the boron filament (tungsten core), the two diameter sizes that he carries (0.003 and 0.004 inch OD) are for the indoor free flight models, where they laminate the boron filament to the balsawood frame to make the structure stiffer.  To use the boron filament on its own for a glider kite, the wing span would have to be very small.  Ray indicated that there are larger diameters of boron filament, but the density would be more than carbon rods we are using, by about 20 percent.

Regarding his Mylar film, Ray indicated his Ultrafilm with a thickness of 1.4 microns may work, which I calculated have a density of 0.065 oz./sq.yd., which is about 20% of the 0.33 Cuben fabric I am using.  As with the born filament, the free flight modelers glue the Mylar film to the balsa frame to provide support.  I am not sure how durable the Mylar would be at this thickness for the layout of my Bird of Prey.

As a first step, I suggest that I design and build a Bird of Prey with a 12 inch wing span, using the Cuben fabric and carbon rods.  Once I get the details worked out and the kite dialed in, I will share the plans with you, so that you can explore using other construction materials.

Just my thoughts,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36 Made with PC31
Post by: Doug S on October 29, 2014, 05:46 PM
Just finished the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 made from PC31.  Couldn't resist test flying it in my front yard in the dark with the front lights on.  A dark, very damp and 48 F degree night are not the best conditions to test out a new design, but the BOP 36 flew great!  The wind was light at less than 3 mph.

This version of the BOP 36 weighs 17 grams and has a sail loading of 0.295 oz./sq.ft., which is slightly less than its bigger brother, the BOP 48 at 0.300 oz./sq.ft.  Due to the very damp conditions and wet grass from the storm that just passed, the BOP 36 and the flying line were very wet (and heavier), but it flew like a champ.  Had it in the air for about an hour.

The goal for this version of the BOP was to have a higher sail loading version of the BOP 36 made from Cuben fabric, to be used for light to moderate winds, which can be flown very aggressively.  Since the chord is less than its bigger brother with about the same sail loading, it will fly slightly faster than the BOP 48 due to less contact time of the air with the sail material (Reynolds Numbers).  This was by design and this version of the BOP 36 is a hot little glider.  It easily glides to the corners of my front yard, which open area is about 60 by 60 feet.  It accelerates and spins quickly under aggressive flying line inputs, yet transitions into a moderate glide speed when the tension on the fly line is relaxed.  Could be a fun kite for indoor ballet with fast tempo music.  Attached is a picture after I dried off the kite.  I have found with the BOPs made from PC31 that it’s good to leave them assembled for a while, which allows the sail to flatten out.  All of my BOPs made from PC31 are hanging assembled in my basement since they were built.

Will tinker a little with the center of gravity (CG) to confirm I am at the sweet spot.  The CG is currently set the same as its light weight Cuben brother, at 8 inches from the nose of the sail material.  Will fly it again during the day under dry conditions.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSanBZMU5RajZZM1k)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 Indoor Flying Demo Video by Elliott Brogren
Post by: Doug S on November 04, 2014, 07:31 PM
The following provides the Youtube and Facebook links I received from Elliott Brogren, who was recorded flying one of my Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 glider kites.  Thank you Elliott for providing the video links.  Great indoor demo of the BOP 36, which I hope you enjoy!  ;D

http://youtu.be/6O2aULQMfxI (http://youtu.be/6O2aULQMfxI)

https://www.facebook.com/232378193482957/ (https://www.facebook.com/232378193482957/)

Later,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36 and 12
Post by: Doug S on November 08, 2014, 08:48 AM
Finally got around to start construction on my second Bird of Prey 36 for me, since my other two have happy homes in Washington and New York States.  Also cut out the sail for the Bird of Prey 12, which is so cute!  The attached file provides a picture of the cut out sails made from Cuben Fabric.  Hope to have these in the air by next weekend.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaVY2R2dmOXlnVW8)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on November 08, 2014, 11:35 AM
Very nice Doug.
I'm curious of the little one will do.


Title: Bird of Prey 36 made from PC31
Post by: Doug S on November 10, 2014, 07:51 AM
Was able to get some more air time on the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 made from PC31.  This time the weather was drier at 49 degrees F, with light winds at 3.5 mph according to Weather Underground.  In my front yard, I don't think I had winds greater than 2 mph, which were changing direction.  Great glider kite that flys just like its bigger brother, the BOP 48, but more responsive due to its smaller size.  As expected, the glide speed is faster than the BOP 36 made from Cuben Fabric, due to the higher sail loading.  This one is a keeper and gives you a good workout if you like to fly aggressively like I do!  Will finalize the plans and post them in the future.  Construction is a blend of the BOP 48 and 36, where it looks like a BOP 48, but with the same carbon tubes and joiner used in the BOP 36.

Later,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36 (Made from PC31) Plans and Updates to the Other BOPs
Post by: Doug S on November 14, 2014, 01:18 PM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

The following provides the links to the Bird of Prey 36 made with PC31.

Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Specifications Plan (June 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeGR5M253Uk1zeDQ/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeGR5M253Uk1zeDQ/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Patterns for PC31 Plan (June 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRTZMeXBUakdydDg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRTZMeXBUakdydDg/view?usp=sharing)

As with the posting of my other versions of the Bird of Prey, please provide a donation to this great Forum if you choose to download a copy of the plans.  Thank you.

Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Front View Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSeXZFTHlnV3M3Zzg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSeXZFTHlnV3M3Zzg/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose Detail, Front of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY1ctUUp2SjN4Q2c/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY1ctUUp2SjN4Q2c/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScEpNZ0hhUndzVWc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScEpNZ0hhUndzVWc/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Center Joiner Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjBBLTRwSUszOTg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjBBLTRwSUszOTg/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Tail Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbVoxcjdpWmxtQWs/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbVoxcjdpWmxtQWs/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Wing Spar Dihedral Line Detail, Right Side, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb1hlYmc4MHNCSHc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb1hlYmc4MHNCSHc/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Wing Tip Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVUQtN2t1MmVlWWc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVUQtN2t1MmVlWWc/view?usp=sharing)

If you are not comfortable building a Bird of Prey 36 yourself, just send me a note and I will build one for you.  The color selection is up to you, with my guidance.  The reasonable fee I request for the construction the Bird of Prey 36 allows me to replace my building materials, so that I can continue my research efforts that brought you the Hawks, Raperes, and now the Birds of Prey.

I also updated the links for the BOP 24 (Reply 224) and BOP 36 (Reply 225) made from Cuben Fabric, and the BOP 48 made from PC31 (Reply 207).  Updates to the plans were minor text edits, where the primary edit was indicating the FSD Nock should be a 3.2 mm ID, instead of a 3.0 mm ID.  In the last shipment of FSD Nocks I received, the 3.0 mm ID has a much larger OD, which will not fit inside of a FSD 5.0 mm ID Nock.

In addition to the previously provided plans, the following links provide the patterns for the BOP 24 and 36 made from Cuben Fabric, where each plan also includes the list of materials on the template.  This is what I now use to build these kites, which reduces the number of plans you need to print out.

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric with List of Materials:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQUtYak9uQmx0Q0U/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQUtYak9uQmx0Q0U/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric with List of Materials:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVDFWYzUxX2VMemc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVDFWYzUxX2VMemc/view?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeXZFTHlnV3M3Zzg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on November 16, 2014, 07:15 AM
So Doug, I've never been much of a glider guy and have a deep seated need to have handles in my hand at all times.  That said, the Icarex BoP 36 looks intriguing and would do nicely in my backyard and reduce travel time on those windless days.  With your plans I could likely muster one out of my shop but why when I could have one lovingly built by the designer? Please PM the details on acquiring a 36" red tipped blackbird (red tips, black center).  Don't even think about under charging.

Thanks,
Steve


Title: Linked Pictures from my Google Drive
Post by: Doug S on November 22, 2014, 07:46 AM
In the past, I was unable to link my pictures directly from my Google Drive, so I would reduce their file size and attach them to my Replies.  Due to memory requirements on this great Forum, the picture attachments in my older replies were removed.  With the help of Steve, I now can link the pictures stored in my Google Drive.  The linked pictures will be at the original resolution of the photographs.  I am working from my later posts and I am back to Reply 203.  Hope to complete this over the next week.

Doug


Title: Liinks to my Google Drive Pictures Completed
Post by: Doug S on November 26, 2014, 02:59 PM
I have completed linking the pictures in my Replies to my Google Drive.  A labor of love finding the pictures I used as attached files over the life of this topic thread.  If you find a link that is not working, just let me know and I will fix it.  ;)

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on November 27, 2014, 12:31 AM
Well done Doug, big kudos.


Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on December 03, 2014, 07:36 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubfsj6i44a89ul0/BOP.jpeg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubfsj6i44a89ul0/BOP.jpeg?dl=0)

Just finished a BOP 48. Framed in 3 mm tube and 0.8 rod for the sail battens. Looks great and have just had it in the air in over powered conditions and it came back in one piece and flew like a champ.

Many thanks to Doug and the forum.

Mike





Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on December 06, 2014, 10:04 AM
Finally found time to finish the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 for me and the prototype of the BOP 12.

The BOP 12 fly's great and is fun to play with in a typical home room.  It fly's like the BOP 24, just a little more responsive.

It has a wing span of 12 inches and weighs only 0.7 grams with a sail loading of 0.0215 ounces/square inch of sail area, about the same as the BOP 24.  The sail material is 0.33 orange Cuben fabric.  The reinforcements are orange Cuben fabric, black PC31 and some had stitching like its bigger brothers.  The center spine and wing spars are made from a 0.02 inch diameter carbon rod.  The battens are made from a 0.01 inch diameter carbon rod.  The bridle, wing spar cross line and flying line are from 5 pound spectra line.  The 1/16 inch end cap was all that was needed to balance the kite.  Will experiment with the location of the center of gravity to confirm I found the sweet spot.  The following provides a picture of the BOP 12 with a 6 inch ruler as a point of reference.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSLWtoOHJzN2t6bzg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on December 06, 2014, 12:53 PM
Oh Doug if you happen to make another 12 I would love to have it join its brother!!!!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on December 06, 2014, 01:03 PM
Thief,

No problem.  Just let me tinker with the center of gravity a little more, then I will build one for you.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: ae on December 06, 2014, 06:27 PM
That is a cute one! Well done Doug.


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on December 08, 2014, 07:20 AM
Tinkered with the center of gravity yesterday and I believe I found the sweet spot, by moving the location back just a little bit.  Couldn't resist flying the BOP 12 in my front yard in 5 mph winds, while taking breaks setting up the outside Christmas decorations.  Tough little kite and very responsive to minor line inputs.

As a point of reference, the ultra-light BOP 36 would be your favorite dog you have owned for years, who is calm and responses to your requests in a loving way.  The ultra-light BOP 24 is the same dog when it was about 1 to 2 years in age, who is more responsive and energetic.  The BOP 12 is the same dog as a puppy, full of excitement and movement.  It reacts to any slight changes in air, both indoors and outdoors.  ;D

I will finish the BOP 12 plans and post them before the end of this week, as a holiday gift to my fellow glider kite enthusiasts.  Rob and Art have already requested that I build a BOP 12 for them.

Later,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12 - Construction Plans
Post by: Doug S on December 08, 2014, 05:19 PM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

The following provides the links to the Bird of Prey 12 made with Cuben fabric.

Link to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 12 – Pattern with List of Materials (Updated January 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSam14dU5zNEhsWms/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSam14dU5zNEhsWms/view?usp=sharing)

Since it takes so little effort to fly and steer this glider kite, the rear mark makes this kite more forgiving until one gets use to flying it.  The plans print out on one 11 x 17 inch piece of paper.  As with the posting of my other versions of the Bird of Prey, please provide a donation to this great Forum if you choose to download a copy of the plans.  Thank you.

Links to Pictures (Also shown below):

•   Bird of Prey 12 – Front View Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNXF1RFphMzI1SUk/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNXF1RFphMzI1SUk/view?usp=sharing)

•   Bird of Prey 12 – Back View Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWklSUjM1aEwxT3M/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSWklSUjM1aEwxT3M/view?usp=sharing)


If you are not comfortable building a Bird of Prey 12 yourself, just send me a note and I will build one for you.  The reasonable fee I request for the construction the Bird of Prey 12 allows me to replace my building materials, so that I can continue my research efforts that brought you the Hawks, Raperes, and now the Birds of Prey.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNXF1RFphMzI1SUk)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWklSUjM1aEwxT3M)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 - Pictures from the PCKA and WKA Christmas Party
Post by: Doug S on December 09, 2014, 09:49 AM
Elliott Brogren was kind enough to provide the following pictures of his Bird of Prey 36 in flight at the Pierce County Kite Association and Washington Kitefliers Association Christmas party.

The first picture is with Elliott finishing his flight.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSQ1VPclUxOVVhX0E)

The second and third pictures are with Paul de Bakker flying the Bird of Prey 36.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeE91N1ZKbHdabVU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUWFRZTB1MVdvdVE)

Thank you Elliott for sharing the pictures from the Christmas Party.

Yours in kitting,

Doug




Title: Birds of Prey 36 for Steve and Art - In Process
Post by: Doug S on December 14, 2014, 08:07 PM
Working on several Birds of Prey (BOP) for fellow glider kite enthusiasts.  The following picture shows the sails for two BOP 36s in process, which are made from PC31.  The red and black one is for Steve, while the white, yellow and black one is for Art.  Panels are glued together, ready to be sewn.

Back to working on the several made from Cuben fabric.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSamhkUG5OU2hza0U)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on December 14, 2014, 09:31 PM
Oh, looks nice Doug!  Pretty curves. Great minds I see  8)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on December 15, 2014, 06:39 AM
wow...gorgeous!


Title: Bird of Preys our for a little Winter Fun
Post by: Doug S on December 20, 2014, 07:47 AM
Took a break this morning from my kite workshop to play with some of my recent Birds of Prey (BOP) in my front yard.  Temperature was 20 degrees F, light winds at 0 to 3 mph and light snow flurries.  Great weather to get you in the Holiday Spirit!  Had a blast flying the BOP 12, the BOP 36 made with Cuben, and the BOP 36 made with PC31.  Came in after 30 minutes only because of the cold on my fingers.  Typed this post while the feeling comes back in my fingers.  :D  Back to the workshop to help the Elves finish the BOPs for other glider enthusiasts.  ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUzI5UGpKMU1DTGs)


Title: Update to Bird of Prey 12 Plans / New Sewing Machine
Post by: Doug S on December 28, 2014, 06:24 AM
After a little more tinkering with the Bird of Prey 12, I found that it glides better under all conditions with a slight increase in nose weight, using a slightly longer nose cap that is 1/2 inch in length.  The plans have been updated to reflect this minor change, which are provided below and in the original post (Reply #262) for this glider kite.  The center of gravity is a little further back on this version of the Bird of Prey, as compared to its larger brothers.  This is due to the weight and drag of the flying line, even when using only 5 pound spectra!  It's a blast to fly and really reacts to very slight changes in air currents.

•   Bird of Prey 12 – Pattern with List of Materials (Updated December 26, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTlNtM0lUNkp1SjQ/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTlNtM0lUNkp1SjQ/view?usp=sharing)

Also, Santa was very good to me this year.  After all of the fun with the old Singer 645 that was having issues with the multi-step zigzag stitch, a new Heavy Duty Singer 4452 was under the tree for me!  It works like a charm.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaEJpWkJRY1BkSE0)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Fly Market on December 28, 2014, 09:52 AM
Bring that new Singer down I-95 to Maryland in February, for the MKS Retreat. The instructor will be Jon Trennepohl, and the project is a new type of glider. http://www.mdkites.org/mks-kite-retreat.html (http://www.mdkites.org/mks-kite-retreat.html)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on January 02, 2015, 07:23 PM
Phil,

Thank you for the notice about the MKS Retreat and the invite, but that is the weekend of Valentine's Day.  Don't want to disappoint the Misses.  ;D

Is Jon's new glider his Canard that he showed at AKA Nationals?  If it's his Canard, I am kind of overloaded on Canards at this time in my glider kite squadron, with a new one to be built (X-29).  Having way too much fun with my Birds of Prey at this time.   ;D

Later,

Doug

Ultra Light Raperes

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdWpQLVhfYm1RelE)

Raperes

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSN1VIZGhuUlAxQTg)

Arrow

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNlJEWGN4eHFEeUk)

Arrow with Other Canards

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmST041X3FwQXlmd2c)


Title: Birds of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on January 02, 2015, 07:34 PM
It's been a busy holiday week and I have been hiding in my workshop finishing several Birds of Prey (BOP).  Took a break to show you three little BOP 12s and their little kite sleeves, which are for Elliott, Rob and Art (Left to Right).  They each weigh only 0.7 grams.  Hate to have these three BOPs leave the workshop since they fly so well.

Will be making one small change to the plans for the BOP 12, adding a second bridle mark 1/4 in. behind the 1st one.  Since it takes so little effort to fly and steer this glider kite, the rear mark makes this kite more forgiving until one gets use to flying it.  Just way too much fun to fly in a small room.

Back to the workshop,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeHdmVlRpUkt5ODg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 02, 2015, 07:49 PM
Oh yeah! That is me!!!!!!


Title: Birds of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on January 02, 2015, 07:54 PM
Rob,

Yup, the one in the middle is yours.  Going in the mail tomorrow, with a tear in my eye.  Getting nothing done in the workshop test flying (playing, haha) with these three.  :D

Back to the workshop,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 03, 2015, 04:35 AM
consider this an open adoption ;) visitation rights are retained


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on January 03, 2015, 06:26 AM
The 12s are cute!  8)  Tie one to the Lionel going around the Christmas tree?  Video please  :D


Title: Bird of Prey 12s
Post by: Doug S on January 03, 2015, 08:54 AM
Steve,

I only have HO trains, which would work just fine.  :D  How about using one of my three small dogs?  :D

All kidding aside, time to finish your and Art's BOP 36 made from PC31.  Been using the new Singer sewing machine on the kite bags and it works great!  Time to use it on PC31.  It's already dialed.  Time to sew!

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 03, 2015, 10:30 AM
Doug,
 I just got back from taking the BOP 36 UL on its first flight. WOW it is fantastic. The wind was very light to none. it just glides forever. Nice smooth sweeping turns if you want or nice crisp sharp turns. It climbs great.
 I thought I was flying for 15 minutes or so and realized I was out for a bit over an hour. Time really does fly when you are having fun.
 Everybody should try flying a BOP at least one time. They will be sold for life.
 Thanks again Doug for your great kite.
 I am now fully motivated to learn how to make my own.

Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 03, 2015, 10:30 AM
In the 90s there used to be a small motor system you could buy with an arm on the axle that you would attach a miniature to and turn it on.... Awesome for a display!!!


Title: Bird of Prey 36 UL
Post by: Doug S on January 03, 2015, 10:51 AM
Tom,

Thank you for the kind words.  Glad you finally received the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 UL and got some air time.  USPS gave us a little heart burn with your BOP over the last two weeks.  Welcome to the BOP family!

If you want to build one yourself, such as the BOP 36 but made with PC31, just download the plans and give it a shot.

Yours in kiting,

Doug



Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 07, 2015, 01:08 PM
sniff sniff...is that cuben i smell??? oh no the new little BOP baby is getting cold sitting outside..i must hold you and cuddle you and keep you warm!!!

THEN COMES THE FLYING!!!!!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12 Plans - Update
Post by: Doug S on January 15, 2015, 04:05 PM
As indicated in Reply #271, I updated the plans to indicate the two bridle mark locations.  Since it takes so little effort to fly and steer this glider kite, the rear mark makes this kite more forgiving until one gets use to flying it.  The following and Reply #262 for this glider kite provide the updated link to the plans:

•   Bird of Prey 12 – Pattern with List of Materials (Updated January 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSam14dU5zNEhsWms/view?usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 15, 2015, 04:33 PM
well..i had never noticed that each reply has a number to identify it....well..i had in the URL but did not notice that it was in each post header!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 15, 2015, 05:12 PM
Thief
 :o :o :o :o :o How long have you been on the Forum? That is the funniest thing I have read here. That slayed  me. Keep them coming.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 15, 2015, 06:28 PM
Ummm..a month before the forum offically opened....... Hmm......damn I am a dope!!!!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 21, 2015, 06:49 PM
 So I have taken the plunge. Tonight I started making my very own BOP 12". I have cut the sail out, made the small pockets, cut-out most of the reinforcements. I will be taking this slow as this will be my first real kite build. I used a soldering iron to do all of the cutting. That worked like a charm.
 Here is a picture of what is cut-out so far. Doing all of these cuts and trying to see them takes some patience. Tomorrow I will try my hand at starting to tape the parts together.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650409520411/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650409520411/)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 22, 2015, 09:05 PM
Today I added the pockets and most of the reenforcement's. Quite tedious work handling the small parts and tape. It is a bit on the sloppy side but I am fairly happy for my first time. Tomorrow I plan on finishing the reenforcement's and try my hand at sewing what is needed. Here are a few more pictures of my progress.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7SqA5c


Title: Another Completed Bird of Prey - For Stephen Tapp
Post by: Doug S on January 23, 2015, 10:25 AM
Trying to get caught up with Birds of Prey (BOP) for others.  Nothing like the flu to bring you to a grinding stop.  The following picture is a BOP 36 PC for Stephen Tapp.  Was finished earlier this week, but didn't have the right weather conditions and was not well enough until today to test fly it.  Stephen, it fly's nice and is in the mail! ;D

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeTNDS1NXTVhBdUk)


Title: Bird of Prey 24 with Carbon Tube Frame
Post by: Doug S on January 23, 2015, 10:55 AM
For those who are interested, I built another Bird of Prey (BOP) 24 for me over the holidays, but framed it with CST 0.039 in. carbon tubes.  These tubes were originally in my BOP 36 prototype, but were too flexible.  Figured what the heck, let's put them in a BOP 24 and see what they do!  :D  With these carbon tubes, this version of the BOP 24 is much stiffer than the standard BOP 24.  The Cuben sail has the same tension as does the ultra light BOP 36.

During the trimming process, I removed the nose weight in stages to obtain a slow flat glide.  The balance point is back further from the nose than the stock BOP 24.  This is due to the center spine being stiffer, which allows only a very slight curve to it.  I am close to getting it dialed in, where I may need to add back a very small amount of nose weight.  It flew great in a light breeze, but I need a calm day to complete the trimming process.  Without the nose weight required to balance the stock BOP 24 with 0.03 carbon rods, this version is about the same weight at 2.7 grams as the stock BOP 24.  Just me tinkering as usual! ;D

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: swissfish on January 23, 2015, 01:50 PM
Hello Doug, I don't know if it is the correct way to ask, English is not my first language.
First I love this Bird of Prey
How can I get one ? Do you build/sell them ? Do you have a plan available anywhere ?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 23, 2015, 03:59 PM
Swissfish there are links to all of Doug's plans early in this thread. And he does make them for you as well if you all nicely! If you are in Switzerland shipping might be fun though!


Title: Re: Another Completed Bird of Prey - For Stephen Tapp
Post by: stapp59 on January 23, 2015, 05:11 PM
Whoo Whoo!  Red breasted blackbird coming to the Midwest. Thanks for training her first Doug  ;D

Steve

Trying to get caught up with Birds of Prey (BOP) for others.  Nothing like the flu to bring you to a grinding stop.  The following picture is a BOP 36 PC for Stephen Tapp.  Was finished earlier this week, but didn't have the right weather conditions and was not well enough until today to test fly it.  Stephen, it fly's nice and is in the mail! ;D


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 23, 2015, 09:18 PM
So tonight i finished up the reinforcements and sewed all the places need be. Boy do my eyes ache :'(. Trying to sew that small was tedious but VERY FUN. I also made the spine and spars. I will let all the glue setup tonight. Tomorrow I will trim battons to length and do the line work. Then the fun begins getting everything dialed in so she flys and glides like a dream.. I am having a blast making the BOP 12.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/16166498007/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/16166498007/)


Title: Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on January 23, 2015, 09:36 PM
Tom,

Don't tell them you are having fun, then everyone will want to build one! :D :D :D ;)  ;D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: swissfish on January 24, 2015, 04:40 AM
Thank you Thief, I hadn't gone through the 20 pages. Will try to make one myself at first :-)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 24, 2015, 08:27 AM
Yeah there are a lot of pages, I think we need to start a new thread soon!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 24, 2015, 12:29 PM
Here it is the final product. It took about 7 hours to make. Being this is my very first kite build I am ok with how it turned out. I learned what not to do on some stuff. Will definitely need to get much better with handling the tape (scotch 924) Booger Tape as I will now forever call it.

 The wind is a steady 25 mph, with gusts up to 40 ???. So needless to say I will not be testing it out today :'(. I have tested the glide inside. It goes almost perfectly straight. Very slight drift to the left when going away from me.
 I may need to trim it out some. Doug what is a good glide ratio on the BOP 12? Say I hold it 6 feet off the ground and let go. How far should this glide before touchdown? Ball Park estimate.

 I highly recommend anybody who is thinking about making one DO IT!!!!

 Thank you Doug for your generous gift's to this Great Forum.

Tom
 Sorry had the wrong link
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650409520411/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650409520411/)


Title: BOP 12 - Trimming Guidelines
Post by: Doug S on January 24, 2015, 04:29 PM
Tom,

The following provides some trimming guidelines, which should correct a potential turn.  I use this process during the construction and test flight stages for each Bird of Prey (BOP).  I also provided guidance on the glide angle.

•   When building the wing spars, make sure they are exactly the same length.  If not, lightly sand the longer wing spar until it matches the shorter wing spar.

•   After inserting the wing spars into the sleeves and the center joiner, look at the center spine and confirm that it's straight, when viewed from the nose of the kite.  If the center spine is pushed to one side a slight amount, the wing spar on the opposite side may not be fully seated in the center joiner or fully inserted in the wing tip.  The following also may be the cause.

•   The center joiner is made of available material and needs to be adjusted for the BOP.  It needs to be bent slightly forward and slightly upward.  With the wing spars installed, carefully bend the center joiner slightly forward towards the nose and slightly upward.  When I build a BOP, I will assemble it and leave it hanging in my workshop for a day or so to let the center joiner set to the correct angle.  On one side of the wing spar, I leave a length of the wing spar cross line after the clove hitch, so I can adjust the correct amount of dihedral the next day, then cut off the excess length.

•   Hold your BOP from the nose with the tail pointing to the ground.  While looking down the nose along the center spine, confirm each wing tip is parallel to the center spine.  If a tip is rotated so the trailing edge of the tip is lower, so you can see sail material below the leading edge, than that tip has wash-in and will cause that tip to lift in flight.  If a tip is rotate so the trailing edge is higher, so you can see sail material above the leading edge, than that tip has washout and will cause that tip to drop in flight.  For stability, a slight amount of washout in each wing tip is acceptable, as long as the washout is equal on both tips.  I fly all of my BOPs, except the BOP 12, with no washout set by me as described above.  All the BOPs, except the BOP 12, will adjust their trailing edges under the forces of flight, which causes the tips to self-adjust and washout under load.  The tips recover when the load is reduced.  This happens with the larger BOPs, but not with the BOP 12, due to the stiffness of the Cuben Fabric as it relates to the size of this little glider kite.  So for the BOP 12, setting a small amount of washout may be needed, which will make this little glider kite a little more forgiving.

•   Regarding the glide slope, all of the BOPs will have a long flat glide when not connected to the flying line.  This can be confirmed by holding the tail of a BOP, with the kite parallel to the ground and very gently pushing it forward like a paper airplane.  At the end of the glide, the nose should rise very slightly and the glider kite will have a controlled stall and land.  When the fly line is connected in flight, the line weight and line drag when slack act like additional nose weight, which prevents the stall during the glide.  Due to the size of the BOP 12, the flying line has more of an impact on the glide angle, so the center of gravity (CG) is located a little further from the nose than its larger brothers.  Check the balance point of your BOP 12 by placing it on one of your fingertips, with the back of the sail parallel to the ground.  Carefully measure the distance from the tip of the sail at the nose to the part of your fingertip the kite is balanced on.  Compare this distance to the indicated CG location on the plans.  The nose cap is used to adjust the CG for the BOP 12, where a longer length (more weight) will move the CG forward and a shorter length (less weight) will move the CG to the rear.  Based on the glide you have indicated, I would connect the flying line and retest the glide.  With the flying slack during flight, your BOP 12 should have a very flat glide angle.  If your BOP 12 with the flying line attached and slack just glides fast at a slightly steeper glide angle, the CG is too far forward.  If your BOP 12 with the flying line attached and slack cycles by raising and lowing its nose, the CG is too far back and the glider is transitioning from a glide into a stall, then recovering from the stall into a glide.  Some people like their glider kites to fly like this, but it requires tension on the line to stop the stall.  I prefer a long flat glide, where I can induce a stall based on my line inputs.

I hope this helps.  Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Art's Family of Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on January 24, 2015, 05:21 PM
Art and I met last year at a local kite festival, where he enjoyed flying my Birds of Prey (BOP).  Since that point in time, Art requested that I build him each version of this glider kite series, which I have added to over the past year.  Art was kind enough to take a picture of his entire Family of BOPs (at this time).  Art is aware that I hope to build a BOP 96 in the near future.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSQ04zRy1yNWpEbjQ)

Going clockwise from 12 o’clock, we have a BOP 48 in Art’s favorite colors, a BOP 36 ultra-light, a BOP 24 ultra-light, and a BOP 36 PC in Art’s favorite colors.  In the center is a BOP 12 ultra-light.  The BOP 36 PC and BOP 12 are his newest additions to the family.

Art, thank you again for the picture.

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey Templates - By Tom White
Post by: Doug S on January 24, 2015, 06:04 PM
Tom White and I have had several enjoyable discussions about his the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 Ultra-Light I built for him and his build of my BOP 12 Ultra-Light.  Tom offered to make an aluminum template for me, if he could use one for his build.  After further discussion, Tom was kind enough to make me aluminum templates for the BOPs that I have been recently building for other glider kite enthusiasts.  The following pictures are of the templates.

BOP Templates for BOPs 12, 24 and 36 Ultra-Lights made from Cuben Fabric.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSNk5wUTZIX0FtQjQ)

BOP Templates for BOP 36 PC made from PC31.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSV1Y1TXg0UFFMSVE)

I cannot begin to thank Tom enough for these templates, since they will make my life so much easier.  My first build with the templates will be a BOP 36 PC for Tom in his favorite colors.

If anyone is interested in a template, and at Tom's request, please contact me.  Tom and I will determine a fair price to cover materials, labor and shipping.  We are offering these templates to other glider kite enthusiasts to build a BOP for themselves and not commercially for others.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 24, 2015, 06:30 PM
Doug.
 I am out in the dark testing the 12. Per your directions I checked the following Wing spars. Found that 1 was about .020 longer than the other. That was causing the spine to be slightly bent. After I corrected that took for a test no line attached. Nice glide only moved size to side from slight wind. The glide rate was slightly steep. I checked CG slightly too far forward. I shortened the nose weight and found much improvement.   
 Tomorrow I will continue changing nose weight with line attached.
 As stated before making and dialing this in is a blast.

Tom


Title: Re: Bird of Prey Templates - By Tom White
Post by: stapp59 on January 25, 2015, 04:52 AM
Those templates are very impressive.  8)

Tom White and I have had several enjoyable discussions about his the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 Ultra-Light I built for him and his build of my BOP 12 Ultra-Light.  Tom offered to make an aluminum template for me, if he could use one for his build.  After further discussion, Tom was kind enough to make me aluminum templates for the BOPs that I have been recently building for other glider kite enthusiasts.  The following pictures are of the templates.


Title: Bird of Prey Ultra-Lights Ready for Framing
Post by: Doug S on January 29, 2015, 03:50 PM
I am finally getting caught up with Birds of Prey (BOP) for others.  The following picture is a BOP 36 Ultra-Light and three BOP 24 Ultra-Lights reading for framing.  All of the sail work and hand stitched are completed.  The three BOPs are stacked on top of each other, which is why the light orange Cuben Fabric is darker.  Will finish these four by this weekend and then they are off to the United Kingdom.  My next projects are a custom BOP 36 PC for Tom White, then the BOP 96!

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSaXc2cGhVeHhpXzA)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on February 01, 2015, 02:23 PM
Doug.

 I am going to be making the BOP 24 next. My question is when I take the drawing to get printed out. What size of paper os it to be printed on. Or do I need to have them scale it a certain amount.
 
 Was out yesterday and this morning flying the 36 and 12. I worked on trimming the 12 more. I have both of the birds dialed in pretty well. I am getting the hang of the 12 a bit more. I find I need to combine both a gentile touch and a slightly aggressive touch mixed together.  The wind was dead calm this morning so that helped a great deal.

 Tom


Title: Plan (Paper) Sizes for Ultra-Light Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 01, 2015, 03:07 PM
Tom,

The following provides the Plan (Paper) size to print out the three Ultra-Light Birds of Prey (BOP):

 - BOP 12:  11 in. x 17 in.
 - BOP 24:  22 in. x 34 in.
 - BOP 36:  30 in. x 42 in.

The PDF Plan files are full scale.  One needs to print the file 1 to 1 in scale with no size change.  If you do not have access to print to the above size paper, there is a way in Adobe to print the plan to several pages that include reference marks to tape the plan together.  I print directly from my AutoCAD files to the printer, using the above paper sizes.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on February 01, 2015, 03:45 PM
Doug.

 Much thanks. That is exactly what I needed to know.

Tom


Title: Four New Ultra-Light Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 02, 2015, 05:16 PM
The following provides a picture of four new Ultra-Light Birds of Prey (BOP 36 and three BOP 24s) that are now completed, test flown and on their way to their new homes in the United Kingdom.  Alex, thank you for your patience on these four.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeUhTYXJhdzVzOEk)


Title: BOP 24 Cuben build
Post by: twhite510 on February 03, 2015, 07:33 PM
 I started a BOP 24 build tonight. I finally got the 2 BOP 12's I built trimmed out and flying to my liking. I have the reinforcements on. Next step is to fold over and glue the leading edge pockets. This is the most difficult part for me. After that on to the Batten pockets and do the hand stitching. This is the most time consuming part for me, but I kind of like doing it. I hope to have the nocks i ordered here on Friday. Then I can finish it up and spend the weekend trimming it out. Posted a couple of pictures.

Tom



https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7zw17i


Title: Bird of Prey 24
Post by: Doug S on February 03, 2015, 08:10 PM
Tom,

I made a very minor modification to the Bird of Prey (BOP) 24 since the holidays.  I moved the stops for the wing spar cross line towards the center spine, so the side of the stop closest to each wing tip lines up with aerodynamic center for each half of the sail.  This is how all of the other size BOPs have been built since I developed the BOP 24.  In the original BOP 24 built with the 0.03 inch carbon rods I was using at that time, I needed the stops to be further out to add more support from the cross line.  This is no longer the case with the slightly stiffer CST 0.03 inch carbon rods that I now am using.  Based on this change, I wanted to make BOP 24 match its other BOP family members.  Several BOP 24s have been built this way and there is no difference in the flight performance between the two versions.  I will post the plans before the end of the week and indicate the distance each stop is located from the inner end of the wing spar.

Please note the BOP 24 has more flexibility in the frame, when compared to the BOP 12 and BOP 36.  If you are looking for a stiffer version of the BOP 24 at the same weight, the frame to use is the CST 0.039 inch carbon tubes.  As previously posted on this topic, I have a BOP 24 with this frame I built over the holidays, where I need to dial in the final location of the center of gravity.  The stiffer version is more responsive, but not as forgiving as the stock BOP 24.  Waiting for the weather to cooperate to finish trimming this version of the BOP 24 with the stiffer frame.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: BOP 24 build
Post by: twhite510 on February 03, 2015, 08:22 PM
Doug,
Thanks for the info. I will wait to get the updated print. You are using the CST .030 rods correct? I jst want to make sure I am building it correct.

Tom


Title: Bird of Prey 24
Post by: Doug S on February 03, 2015, 08:34 PM
Tom,

You are correct.  My current production version of the BOP 24 uses the CST 0.03 inch carbon rods.  Being the tinkerer that I am, I also have for myself versions of the BOP 24 with the CST DPP 0.028 and 0.033 inch carbon rods, and the CST DPP 0.039 inch carbon tubes.  Need to find a nice day to play with all of these BOP 24 variations.  So many great toys, so little time to play!   :D

Addition:  If one wishes to use one of the other frames listed above, I will update the plans to include a table that will indicate what is the appropriate amount of nose weight and the associated location of the center of gravity, the location of the bridle mark and the total weight of the BOP 24 for each frame configuration.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: my 12" & 24" BOP's
Post by: twhite510 on February 07, 2015, 11:11 AM
 I finished up my BOP 24 this morning. Everything went pretty smooth. The trimming was right on the money. I needed no adjustments.

 Here- is a picture of the BOP's I have made to date. 2@12" and 1@24"

http://flic.kr/p/qNB8dM (http://flic.kr/p/qNB8dM)


Title: Doug Stout's Ultra-Light Birds of Prey 12, 24 and 36 - Wing Spar Stop Locations
Post by: Doug S on February 10, 2015, 08:06 AM
I am in the process of updating the plans to include the numeric distance for installing the stops on the Wing Spars for the Bird of Prey (BOP) 12, 24, 36 and 48.  The distance is from the inner end of the wing spar to the outside edge of the stop where the wing spar dihedral line is connected.  The distances are as follows:

 - BOP 12:  2 5/32 inches
 - BOP 24:  4 1/4 inches
 - BOP 36:  6 9/16 inches
 - BOP 48:  8 23/32 inches

Waiting for the weather to cooperate in the Northeast so that I can finish dialing in my new BOP 24 with the CST DPP 0.039 inch OD carbon tubes.  Once that is done, the BOP 24 plans will include alternate framing options, such as the CST DPP 0.028 and 0.033 inch OD carbon rods and the CST DPP 0.039 inch OD carbon tubes.  The stock frame for the BOP 24 is the CST 0.03 inch OD carbon rods.

Doug


Title: BOP 24 with .039 tube frame
Post by: twhite510 on February 12, 2015, 06:55 PM
So I have made another BOP. This one is the BOP 24 with .039 tube frame. this is my 4th BOP. I have made 2 12" and 2 24" one from .030 and the last with .039. All are with the Cuben Fabric.  I also have my first BOP 36 Cuben that Doug made for me. Starting to get the hang of working with this stuff. They are looking better each build. I hope to have one turn out nearly as nice as Doug's in about 100 more tries. Doug's work is impeccable.

Any how here is a link to my latest BOP24.
]http://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650376541360/] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/126411661@N03/sets/72157650376541360/)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on February 13, 2015, 02:26 PM
Nice work they look good

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on February 13, 2015, 03:12 PM
Mike.
 Thanks it was great fun making them. They are also great fun to fly.  You should make one or have Doug make you one.

Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on February 14, 2015, 03:55 PM
Already  made an Icarex 48 framed in 3 mm tube and have a second skin that I have just gotten some 2 mm tube from Sky Shark. Will frame it shortly and see how it compares to the one framed in 3 mm. Posted a pic on Glider Geeks FB page. Gotta visit my sailmaker mate and see if I can get some cuban.

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on February 14, 2015, 06:52 PM
Nice. I just back from flying my BOP 24 Cuben framed in the .039 tube. It was a bit windy for it. 3mph. So I was not able to fly all around just down wind. It was good practice getting used to controlling it. The wind would die down some and it would just hang in one place with totally slack line. Doug is making me an Incarex BOP 36. I can't wait to get that one so I can get some air time on that.

 If you need a source for the Cuben PM me and can tell you where I got mine. Not too sure how much it will be to send down under but it is very light to ship.

Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on February 14, 2015, 09:38 PM
Thanks Tom but should be able to source cuban here in Australia.

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on February 15, 2015, 05:12 AM
I think cuben is really only available here in the states or in eu... Karl Longbottom had to get his from here


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on February 15, 2015, 12:02 PM
I am in no hurry as I have plenty on the to do list. If I need to I will get the drum from here for sourcing the cuban. Thanks gentlemen. Love this thread!

Mike


Title: Birds of Prey
Post by: Doug S on February 16, 2015, 07:51 AM
Mike,

I am glad you are enjoying this topic.  I responded to your E-Mail about the second Bird of Prey 48 you are building.  If you have any other questions, just send me a note and I will be pleased to help in anyway I can.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36 PC for Tom White
Post by: Doug S on February 23, 2015, 05:29 PM
Started building the Bird of Prey 36 PC for Tom White.  The following provides a picture with the panels cut out.  The colors are charcoal, white, black and grey.  With these colors, it looks like an old black and white photograph.  This one will look cool in the air.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSalNzWGFSWGJ1elE)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 PC for Kite Party 13
Post by: Doug S on March 07, 2015, 08:58 AM
I will be donating a new Bird of Prey (BOP) glider kite (BOP 36 PC) for the auction, which is show in the picture.  This version is designed for light winds and is very playful.

Tom White will bring this BOP to KP 13 for me, since it's a little hard for me to get away with work and the weather on the east coast.  Tom also is going to KP 13 with some of the BOPs that he made himself from my plans.  Thank you Tom and what a guy!

Tom, I am almost done building your new BOP 36 PC in your colors.  You should have it in time for KP 13.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMUhfYjcwdldDRmM)


Title: Bird of Prey 36 PC for Tom White
Post by: Doug S on March 08, 2015, 11:46 AM
The following provides a picture of the Bird of Prey 36 PC for Tom White.  Just finished and will go for a test flight this afternoon, then out to its new home in California.  This makes the 42nd Bird of Prey that I have build, with 28 going to other great homes.  Time to begin construction on my Bird of Prey 96!

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSM05aTzJQM3RWS0k)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on March 08, 2015, 11:56 AM
Doug,

It looks great. I can't wait to fly it.

I was able to take the two BOP24s for KP out this morning for an hour or so. They flew Great. Just did a little adjustment on bridles. They should be good to go.

Thanks again

Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 08, 2015, 05:28 PM
Please put my name down for the 96" in black :)


Title: Tom White's Bird of Prey 36 PC
Post by: Doug S on March 12, 2015, 06:28 AM
Tom White was kind enough to provide the following pictures he took while flying his new Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 PC for the first time yesterday.  With it being an overcast day and Tom's colors (charcoal, white, black and grey), it almost looks like a cool black and with photo, except for the green trees and lawn.  Thank you Tom for the pictures.  Tom will be attending Kite Party 13 this weekend with several of his BOPs.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWnhVUE14RDBHZFE)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScWZkRkt6RGg5cGc)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 12, 2015, 08:10 AM
absolutely monchromely beautiful!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 24 and 24S Plans
Post by: Doug S on March 12, 2015, 08:57 AM
The following provides the link to download the updated plans for the Bird of Prey (BOP) 24.  The update from the prior version was moving the wing spar stops in towards the center spine, so the connection point of the wing spar dihedral line aligns with the aerodynamic center for each wing panel.  All of my other BOPs are made this way and this is the way that I am currently building the BOP 24.  This version and the prior version fly the same.  I have not changed the link to the prior version, so the plans are still available.

As indicated in my prior posts, I have been experimenting with other frames for the BOP 24.  The stock frame that I am currently using is CST 0.03 inch OD carbon rods.  This version has a nice climb and is gentle in its response to changes in line tension.  I also built BOP 24s with CST DPP 0.028 and CST DPP 0.033 inch OD carbon rods that fly fine, but did not enhance the performance of the kite.  What is typical for aerodynamics is that when you change a parameter, you may gain and loose some of the positive flight characteristics.

Now for the frame that makes a difference.  The BOP 24 with the CST DPP 0.039 inch OD carbon tube is a different kite, or should I say it performs like a smaller version of the BOP 36, which I considered the best of the ultra-light BOPs.  The sail is tighter, which allows for a steeper climb and quicker response to changes in line tension.  The weight is the same as the stock BOP 24, at 2.7 grams.  With this new frame and the associated other changes in the center of gravity and location of the bridle loop, this glider kite has been named the BOP 24S.  I consider the BOP 24S and the BOP 36 to be equal, with the BOP 24S having a slightly faster glide speed due to its smaller size and associated Reynolds Numbers.  The following provides the link to download the plans for the BOP 24S.  By the way, Tom White is bringing with him two BOP 24S he built for the auction at Kite Party 13.  Thank you again Tom.

•   Plans for Bird of Prey 24:  http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScW43SGpvc2I4RTQ (http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScW43SGpvc2I4RTQ)[/img]

•   Plans for Bird of Prey 24s:  http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSV2dWUmZES1ExMm8 (http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSV2dWUmZES1ExMm8)[/img]

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Birds of Prey at Kite Party 13
Post by: Doug S on March 15, 2015, 06:17 AM
Tom White attended Kite Party 13 on Saturday and was kind enough to take the following pictures, also while flying each Bird of Prey (BOP).  Tom, thank you for taking the pictures of the BOP 36 PC and BOP 24S in flight.  Tom indicated the wind was between 6 and 8 mph and these BOPs did great!  These two BOPs plus a second BOP 24S were auctioned at the Kite Party 13 later that day.  Not much kite flying going on back in the northeast, with temperatures in the high 30s/low 40s and wind gusts to 37 mph.

If you are interested, the following provides a link to download the current flyer for the Bird of Prey Glider Kites.

Bird of Prey Glider Kites Flyer:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQjhfdW1WTXhuLVk/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQjhfdW1WTXhuLVk/view?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 36 PC

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmScWVlWDcwRnI4ejQ)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdHROLTNhV3R4ZFU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmST1NQUGZxMG5oNlE)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSa1pLRmlCLWFFTms)

Bird of Prey 24S

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUF9MdF9GdDdsaVU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMHl0bV9vZ0RRWjA)


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - Construction Underway
Post by: Doug S on March 24, 2015, 11:00 AM
Now that Spring is almost here in the northeast, I am working on my Bird of Prey with a 96 inch wing span.  Hope to have it completed for the 25th Annual Kite Day in the Park, in Easton, PA on May 2, 2015.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DD on March 24, 2015, 12:44 PM
Doug I did get to fly the bop that was at kp. Sweet flier! Another Dave managed to win it though :'(
It was really nice to get to fly this after reading so much about it. Thanks for donating it to the auction!!


Title: Bird of Prey 24S and 36 PC at Kite Party 13
Post by: Doug S on March 24, 2015, 01:37 PM
Dave,

I am so glad you got to play with the BOP 24S and BOP 36 PC at KP 13.  It was great that Tom White could attend and let you and others have fun with this unique glider kite design.  If you are interested in one and don't want to build it yourself, just drop me a line.  Just working on the BOP 96, which has 6 different colors over 16 panels.  What was I thinking?   :D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DavidformerlyDavid on March 24, 2015, 03:24 PM
I am the happy new owner of BOP 36 PC, having won it at the auction.  I am very grateful to my family and the other attendees for letting me have it (after bidding it up!)  I'd been watching you prototype these on the web, and I was really excited at the prospect of actually having that kite for my own.

It's a really nice flyer, with a long, slow glide.  Very different from both my iFlight and Zero-G, but I got used to it very quickly.  I think the movements I need to make to fly the BOP are really agreeable and beautiful.  People thought I was doing Taichi!  A very smooth flying kite/glider.

I have some details of the experience I'll share with you via e-mail.


Title: Bird of Prey 36 PC at Kite Party 13
Post by: Doug S on March 25, 2015, 07:09 AM
Thank you to the two Daves for their kind words after flying the Bird of Prey (BOP) glider kites at Kite Party 13.

Now to the Dave that won the BOP 36 PC, congratulations and I have its identical twin back here in New Jersey.  When you received your BOP, it should have come with my 4 page Specifications and Instructions Booklet, which includes my contact information.  If not, I will send you by E-Mail the Booklet for your specific BOP.  Please let me know.

Yes the BOP glider kites do fly and handle differently from other glider kites, due to the swept forward wings, the associated forward tow point, the self-adjusting wing tips that washout under load and my preference for the center of gravity location.  I find the BOPs very easy to fly and they make me look good. ;D

I balance each BOP glider kite so that it has a very flat glide when there is no tension on the flying line.  Under this condition, the flying line is part of the balancing process, where the weight of the flying line and the associated drag assist in trimming the glider kite for the most efficient glide, with the highest Lift/Drag (L/D) ratio.  As you spool out more flying line, the weight of the line and the associated drag moves the center of gravity (CG) slightly forward, which allows the BOP to become more efficient, which will decrease the glide slope and increase the glide speed.  If the CG was located slightly closer to the tail, the angle of the sail to forward flight increases (known as the angle of attack), which increases the Induced Drag component of the L/D ratio.  The result of a CG location closer to the tail is a steeper glide angle.  The attached picture indicates the three components of the L/D ratio, where our goal is to trim and fly glider kites with the minimum amount of drag, if we wish to stay in the air for longer periods of time with the least amount of effort.  I have been working with Tom White on this trimming concept and it was great to hear the joy in his voice when he dialed in the center of gravity locations for the Bird of Prey glider kites he built for himself.

Regarding the tow point, there is a mark on the bridle line.  The bridle leader line has been set at this mark, which is the preferred location when using 50 pound spectra flying line.  This location provides a good balance of climb and response to changes in flying line tension.  If you move the bridle leader line slightly to the rear in the direction of the tail of the kite, the rate of climb will increase, but the kite will be slightly less responsive to changes in flying line tension.  If you move the bridle leader line slightly forward in the direction of the nose of the kite, the rate of climb will decrease and the kite will provide a more aggressive response to changes in flying line tension.  If you move the bridle leader line too far forward, your Bird of Prey will be unstable when tension is applied to the flying line.  If you feel the kite is too aggressive for your flying line inputs, move the bridle leader line to the rear in small increments until you get use to the BOP.  Once you become comfortable with the BOP’s flying characteristics, move the bridle leader line forward in small increments in the direction of the black mark.

The PC-31 versions of the BOP can be flown very smoothly and/or aggressively in light winds.  If you get in trouble, just let the line go slack running through your hands, and the Bird of Prey will recover on its own.  I have had many jaw dropping moments with the PC-31 versions of the Bird of Prey and can’t believe what it can do with aggressive changes in line tension.  If you want some pointers in that regard, such as diving turns, low altitude flat turn, flat turn to climb, and climbing flat spins (my favorite), just give me a call.

If you want to fly in no wind conditions, the Cuben version of the BOP 36 is my favorite.  Your BOP 36 PC weighs 17 grams, while the Cuben version weighs only 7.2 grams.  Same frame in both kites.  Look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSXzJEaGFJUnlGeVk)


Title: Re: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DD on March 25, 2015, 07:47 PM
Tom and I talked about printing the cuben. I wonder how it would affect the flite?


Title: Adding color to Cuben Fabric
Post by: Doug S on March 25, 2015, 09:28 PM
DD,

Elliott and I had the same discussion a little while ago.  I will give my contact at Cubic Tech a call tomorrow.  If we add some color in strategic locations, we need to keep most of it in front of the wing spars so we don't have to add more nose weight.

Doug


Title: Elliott Brogren - May you rest in peace
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2015, 12:52 PM
It is with great sadness that I let our kiting community know that Elliott passed today due to his battle with cancer.  I had the very fortunate pleasure and honor to build for Elliott a few of my Bird of Prey glider kites.  I really enjoyed my E-Mail conversations with him.  Elliott, you will be missed and may you rest in peace my friend.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 27, 2015, 01:36 PM
who is Elliot? what is his last name? username?


Title: Elliott Brogren -May you rest in peace
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2015, 01:44 PM
Thief,

Elliott's last name is Brogren as indicated in the subject of my post.  Regarding kiting, he was very active in the Seattle Washington area.  Others on this forum got him in touch with me, where we talked via email.

Doug



Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 27, 2015, 01:49 PM
oh i missed that, sorry!
I sent Elliot some iFlites too!


Title: Elliott Brogren - May you rest in peace
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2015, 05:58 PM
On September 9, 2014, Elliott and I began a short, but very rewarding dialog from each coast of our great country.  We talked about our love for our families, engineering and kiting.  During this correspondence is when I learned of his on-going battle with cancer.  My wife, Eileen, is a breast cancer survivor for over eight years, and this terrible disease brought Elliott and I closer together.  I felt as if I knew him for my entire life.  We had a common bond where sharing our love for kiting brought us great pleasure and peace of mind.

For those of you who new Elliott, you are very fortunate to have enjoyed his company and his passion for life.  For those of you who didn’t have the opportunity to meet Elliott, then please let me share with you the following link of Elliott flying his Bird of Prey 36 (14-09-24-04) at the "Run from the Rain" kite festival in Ocean Shores, Washington, which video he shared with me on November 4, 2014:  http://youtu.be/6O2aULQMfxI (http://youtu.be/6O2aULQMfxI)

The following picture is Elliott doing what he loved, flying kites.  God speed Elliott, and I am sure we will meet again.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSQ1VPclUxOVVhX0E)



Title: Elliot
Post by: twhite510 on March 27, 2015, 06:35 PM
That was some wonderful fling from obviously a wonderful person. My thoughts are with him and his family.


Title: Kitemania - Dedham, MA
Post by: Doug S on April 20, 2015, 08:46 AM
Just got back home from Kitemania in Dedham, MA late last night.  Such a well-run fun friendly family event.  All the people who ran the event and helped out should be very proud.  For me it was like the 1990s again, being with my kite flying friends from the past.  Scott Weider, Archie Stewart, Steve Santos and Sue Moskowitz were incredible and made me feel like I never left kiting.  I can't begin to thank them enough and others who made me feel at home.  Rob Banks came on Saturday and we were like two little kids raiding my kite bag for things to fly indoors.  We had the Bird of Prey (BOP) 24S, 36, 36PC, 48 and 48PC in the air at some point during the day in the auditorium.  The ultra-light BOP 36 was my go to kite for people to try this weekend.  It was a real pleasure watching them fly the BOP 36 and enjoy the experience.

I was pleasantly surprised when asked to be one of the individuals to fly a demo on Saturday night, where I used the BOP 36.  Amazing Grace was my music as a tribute to Elliott Brogren and our other kiting family members who have left us way too early.  Got up the nerve to fly the routine again in the single line event on Sunday.  It was an incredible honor and thrill for me to fly in front of all my kite friends from the 1990s and my new friends I made this weekend.  The BOP 36 did everything I asked and more, with incredible grace.  It will take a long time to remove the calm well-being and smile from this weekend.  Steve Santos was kind enough to provide the following pictures taken by Sue Moskowitz.

Back to building, the BOP 96 is about half done and should be in the air for the 25th Annual Kite Day in the Park on May 2, 2015 at Louise Moore Park in Easton, PA.  I also am finishing this week a BOP 48 PC for a fellow glider kite flyer.  After Kitemania, it appears I need to build several BOP 36s before the event in Wildwood, NJ.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSVGxrQjc1YjF1Z28)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSMHBvZ1Etemw0Y3c)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdWd2S2xQdVhuNFk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stringfly on April 21, 2015, 09:40 AM
Can you show us any pictures of the BOP 96 yet?  Just a few teaser shots? ;)

Stringfly <>+++++


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on April 21, 2015, 09:56 AM
Stringfly, thanks for asking.  The 10 center panels (5 on each side of the center) are sewn together and it looks like a large multi-color arrow right now (charcoal, white, grey, charcoal and black).  Next is to sew the 3 very long wing panels together (red, white and blue) for each side, then sew the wing panels to the center panels.  Will be pleased to post a picture when all of the panels are sewn together and it looks like a Bird of Prey, before the finishing work on the edges, pockets, reinforcements and pin strips for cockpit outline.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on April 21, 2015, 09:58 AM
How many panels total? Do you have a line drawing so that I can start playing with colors ;) ?


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on April 21, 2015, 10:56 AM
The attached picture is the Bird of Prey 96 (BOP) in process, where the 10 panels (5 on each side of the center) are sewn together.  The nose is to the right and the tail is to the left.  From right to left:  charcoal, white, grey, charcoal and black.

The color drawing above the sail and to the left of my trusty and reliable Singer 604 sewing machine is my prototype aircraft layout in 16 panels for this BOP 96, where I am using 6 different colors (red, white, blue, grey, charcoal and black).  The cut out red, white and blue tip panels are not in the picture and off to the right in my workshop.  I am building this version like the original BOP 48 and 62 using a plan seam, which you only can use with straight seam lines.  This is my old and reliable 1990s stunt kite building technique.  My overlap when the seam is folded over and stitched for the second time is only 3/16 inches wide.

If this BOP 96 flys well, I am open to changing and reducing the number of panels to make it easier and faster for others build, including me.  Lets make sure it fly well, then we can talk about the next step.

Later and back to the workshop tonight,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZERXOEs3dWhuYlU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on April 21, 2015, 12:47 PM
yeah!!!!!
lets see..that is making the 96" is 16 panels? oops...not certain how i skimmed over that detail....
and that center panel is over 36" long correct?

eagerly awaiting the big picture!!!!

btw: get a chance to fly the feather yet?


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on April 21, 2015, 02:02 PM
thief,

The length of the Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 sail along the center (nose to tail) is 54 inches (4.5 feet), which does not include the center spine and end cap that will extend from the nose.  The total projected sail area is 2,079 sq.in.  It's a beast for a glider kite!  As a point of reference, your BOP 24 is only 132 sq. in., while the BOP 36 is 292 sq.in. in projected sail area.

Just about recovered from all the fun this weekend at Kitemania in Dedham, MA and the associated 265 mile drive back home to NJ.  My brain is working in overdrive after this weekend and I have a BOP 36 in development that can fly to more upbeat music, if I so choose.  Just can't leave me alone in a car for 5 hours without coming up with something else to try.  :D

The goal of this version of the BOP 36 will have a weight between the ultra-light BOP 36 at 7.2 grams made from Cuben Fabric, and the BOP 36 PC made from PC-31 at 17 grams.  It's all about the sail loading that dictates the desired glide speed.  I am working with Cubic Tech on potential materials or I may achieve the goal weight with PC-31.  The prototype will have three panels/colors, with minimal reinforcements like the Cuben version.  I just finished the plans for the prototype.  The ultra-light BOP 36 is still my favorite ultra-light BOP and is a perfect match for my Amazing Grace music.  I am not changing a thing for the next indoor event except to practice.  But I do have another piece of music I want to give a try as a demo.

Looking forward to giving the Feather a try tonight.  I was pleasantly and very surprised with the gift.  Thank you again!  Too many great toys and not enough time play.  ;D

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on April 23, 2015, 03:05 PM
The following provides a picture of the Bird of Prey 96 in process, before the finishing work on the edges, pockets, reinforcements and pin strips for cockpit outline.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSUFJUTXFpRVhSOE0)


Title: bop 96
Post by: twhite510 on April 23, 2015, 03:21 PM
Doug
 Glad to see it coming together. The color scheme looks great. I expect you to be getting it all balanced out this weekend  ;D


Title: Bird of Prey 48 for Stringfly
Post by: Doug S on April 26, 2015, 12:31 PM
The following provides a picture of a Bird of Prey 48 for Stringfly in his custom colors and layout.  It flys nice and will be in the mail to him tomorrow.  Back to finishing the Bird of Prey 96.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeXA1UlV6RXpKaGs)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on April 26, 2015, 12:42 PM
gorgeous!!!!!!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stringfly on April 27, 2015, 05:13 PM
Looks great !  Can't wait.   Thanks Doug.

Stringfly <>+++++


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stringfly on May 02, 2015, 05:40 AM
BOP 48 received.  Just some gliding out in the driveway late yesterday.  Super !!!!

Stringfly <>++++


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on May 03, 2015, 07:02 AM
Finished the Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 very late Friday night (1 am) and took it along my three kite bags to the 25th Kites in the Park Day at Louise Moore Park in Easton, PA.  The wind was very light and changing direction throughout the day.  The other issue was the tree line to the north that was causing down drafts on the field.  Fun watching my glider kites do hovercraft landings.  Had a great day flying many different versions of my BOPs and ended up mostly flying the ultra-light BOP 36 and 48.  Now what happens when you fly a glider kite on light spectra line, wearing sneakers in a field with 4-inch high grass and dandelions and rotating winds?  You do your best and worst imitation of Charlie Brown trying to fly a kite.  As an example, I would get my BOP 62 made from PC31 on a great run and then bonk.  The line was ripped out of my hands because it was wrapped around both of me feet. :D   Did this many times during the day until I spent more time looking at my feet to get away from my flying line.  After the event and I ended fly the BOP 24S by the pavilion and had a blast.

Regarding the BOP 96, I used what I had in my shop for a center joiner, which was a length of black tubing I used back in the 1990s for joiners on stunt kites before the molded joiners were being made.  This joiner would be sufficient to see how the BOP 96 would fly, but would need to be upgraded to a much stiffer material.  I flew the BOP 96 at the event for about 10 minutes and it’s a keeper and very majestic.  Will replace the center joiner and make up some different weights to fine tune the glide.  The BOP 96 has an 8-foot wingspan with 2,079 sq.in. of project sail area.  It currently weights 166.7 grams and this may change based on the new joiner and nose weight.  I used SkyShark 2PTs for the outer wing spars and lower center spine.  I used SkyShark P100s for the inner wing spars and upper center spine.  It went together much easier than expected.  I currently have a steel joiner used for fiberglass rods for nose weight.  I will make up lengths of aluminum or steel rods to insert into the P100 to dial in the glide.  The following provides some pictures of the BOP 96.  Once I get the new joiner in, I will take some in flight pictures.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSWHAyZk4ycnZkZ3c)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSLVhmMlU2OFlRVUU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSN21fU2dZemlXcWM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSZWRmdzlabVhQOU0)



Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 03, 2015, 08:41 AM
Love it, that had to be majestic watching that glide!

Same thing when I have had my morpho grande glide and that it 14'..... Very different kite though, that has an adjustable bow built from the nose to halfway down the spine since it is built on a flat feels platform.

Look forward to see what you do with this!!


Title: BOP96
Post by: twhite510 on May 04, 2015, 04:43 PM
Doug.

 That bird is huge. All you have to do is make one more. Then you have the best garage door in town.

 Next time you take it out go ahead and make a video of it.  ;D That should be no problem for a person of your flying skills.

Great work on a beautiful kite.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 05, 2015, 02:10 AM
Why why why can I not see the pictures......... just get a ?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on May 05, 2015, 05:18 AM
Try down loading Firefox. I have a Mac and Safari tends not to load the pictures at times. Firefox works well.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 05, 2015, 06:36 AM
Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

The following provides the links to my Bird of Prey 36 made with Cuben Fabric.  For ultra-light gliding, this one is my favorite.  Enjoy!

Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Specifications Plan (Updated November 12, 2014):  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTEZuQ1Itc3RCQkk/view?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSTEZuQ1Itc3RCQkk/view?usp=sharing[/url])

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric Plan (Updated November 12, 2104:  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNGphLWFzQTN5UFE/view?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNGphLWFzQTN5UFE/view?usp=sharing[/url])

Please provide a financial contribution to this great kite forum if you choose to download the plans.

Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose and Nose Weight Picture:  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScUJRWlVJSTlfQnc/edit?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScUJRWlVJSTlfQnc/edit?usp=sharing[/url])

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Center Joiner Picture:  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNnRwcU5Ec2ctZFU/edit?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNnRwcU5Ec2ctZFU/edit?usp=sharing[/url])

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Right Tip and Batten Picture:  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa2dMOXdhX2dfRWc/edit?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSa2dMOXdhX2dfRWc/edit?usp=sharing[/url])

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Tail Picture:  [url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbkt5TWR4WnQ0LWM/edit?usp=sharing[/url] ([url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbkt5TWR4WnQ0LWM/edit?usp=sharing[/url])

Yours in kiting,

Doug

([url]http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSeFd4SXpZMllXMk0[/url])


Hey Doug: are you able to make a google drive folder with all the pages and pictures in it and then share that out?   Just a static link into the folder would be awesome, and it would be easier to navigate between all of the pictures.
i just went back through almost all of the posts to see the different iterations of the designs....it was neat!


Title: Bird of Prey Information
Post by: Doug S on May 05, 2015, 08:20 AM
thief,

Great idea and it's time.  The plans and pictures for my glider kites posted on the GWTW Forum are in my Google Drive.  I will setup folders for this information and post the link to the folder and see if that works.  I also have been thinking of setting up a Facebook Page to share the same information.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 05, 2015, 08:25 AM
that is great, there are just so many pages that you have done up!


Title: Bird of Prey Updates
Post by: Doug S on May 08, 2015, 05:58 PM
It must be Christmas in May because I just received the templates for my ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 with three panels, as shown in the attached picture.  Tom White, you are the best!  The prototype will be built with three different color/weight sail materials.  Hope to have it ready for the indoor event at Wildwood, NJ.

Put a new stiffer joiner in the Bird of Prey 96 and test flew it last night after 10 pm in my front yard.  Tom White knows I can be encourage very easily.  I sent him a picture of the new joiner, and he response "Are you going out in the dark and give it a go?", so off I went.  It was going to be just a toss.  The glide was so nice, so I had to connect the flying line and give it go.  Before I realized it, I was outside for about 20 minutes.   My neighbors are beginning to think I am crazy. :D

With a slight amount of wind, the Bird of Prey 96 climbs quickly and was over 20 feet high in a very short distance.  It transitions effortlessly into the glide.  One can steer it like all the other Birds of Prey, you just need to account for its size with a 96 inch wing span.  At times I had it over 30 feet and my only problem was it would quickly reach the edge of my flying area on all sides.  Big kite small yard problem.  It will glide fast or slow, depending on how you handle the line.  Just for the heck of it, I tried to do my favorite spin turns and I was very surprised.  The Bird of Prey 96 just went around majestically in a small circle several times in a row, just like our favorite flat axels from the old days.  Majestic is the best was to describe this kite.  Will be making up several different nose weigh inserts to tinker with the center of gravity for different wind conditions.   Need to take it to my town's local sports fields and let it run.  Hope to take some pictures and/or video when I do.

Regarding all the plans and pictures, I need a little time to get the material organized in folders, then I work with the team on this Forum regarding the best way for the links to be accessed.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSdkpqd0ZnVGdxenc)


Title: Bird of Prey 36L and 96 Updates
Post by: Doug S on May 13, 2015, 06:26 PM
The attached picture shows the new three panel ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 in construction, where I used three different Cuben materials.  The nose panel (Panel 1) is comprised of an aluminum coated 1.3 Cuben fabric, where I measured the sail density to be 1.05 oz./sq.yd.  The mid panel (Panel 2) is comprised is blue 0.8 Cuben fabric, where I measured the sail density to be 0.57 oz./sq.yd.  Yes, the material is much lighter that what Cubic Tech reports on their specification sheet for the fabric piece I have.  The panel for the wings and the tail section (Panel 3) is comprised of 0.34 Cuben fabric, where I measured the sail density to be 0.37 oz./sq.yd.  Cubic Tech reports that this material is 0.4 oz./sq.yd.

The stock ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 made from 0.34 Cuben fabric before assembly weighs 2.4 grams.  The assembled three panels of different weight Cuben fabric, using a glue stick and stitching to join the panels weighs 3.0 grams.  Sewing was not hard with my Singer 604, I just did not back stitch because that could damage the material.  I used a surgeon’s knot at the beginning and end of the stitching run to secure the ends.  The additional weight is what I was looking for to support more up-tempo music for indoor ballet routines, while providing some variety of color to the sail.  I was on the fence about using the aluminum Cuben fabric or charcoal PC31 for the nose panel.  I had both cut out, but decided to stay will all Cuben fabric for this prototype, where the shiny nose is beginning to grow on me.  My estimated final weight for this version is 7.8 grams, since the slightly heavier material near the nose will help to reduce the required nose weight used in the stock version.  I also cut out a single panel version of the Bird of Prey 36 using the blue 0.8 Cuben fabric because I like the blue, where the sail weighs 3.7 grams.  My estimated final weight for the blue version is 9.0 grams, where my mass balance calculations indicate I will need more nose weight to offset the additional weight of the fabric to obtain the desired glide.  Once these two versions are done and dialed in, I will let you know the actual completed weights.  I hope to have these two variations of the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 ready to test fly indoors at the indoor event in Wildwood, NJ.  A big thank you to the team at Cubic Tech for letting me try these variations of their fine Cuben fabric.  I like the blue and the shiny material is still growing on me.

Regarding the Bird of Prey 96, I worked with Jon at Skyburner/SkyShark and obtained a lighter SkyShark frame.  The center spine is now a P90 for the upper section and a Zero Air for the lower section.  Used the same mix for the wing spars, where the inner sections are P90s and the outer sections are Zero Airs.  With Jon's recommendation for joiners and my slight additional reinforcements to the very end of the tubes and joiners, the Bird of Prey 96 now weights 139.1 grams, as compared to 162 grams for the version with P100s/2PTs.  My current nose weight is a 75 mm long 6 mm bolt within the center spine, where I ground down the head down to fit within the end cap.  With this weight, I moved the center of gravity away from the nose to have a static margin of 4%, which works fine for the Bird of Prey 24S with the stiffer frame.  This new internal nose weight lightened the original version of the Bird of Prey 96 from 166.7 to 162 grams.  The original external nose weight at 17.7 grams was a little too heavy and the test glide with the internal nose weight is the glide I am looking for.  I have different length 6 mm bolts to fine-tune the balance and the associated glide, which will also change the overall weight of this glider kite.  With this lighter frame, the sail density is what I was looking for at 0.0669 g./sq. in. or 0.34 oz./sq.yd. of project sail area.  The Bird of Prey 96 now has a lighter sail loading than my other conventional shaped 96-inch wing span glider kites made from two up to six panels of PC31 and old SkyShark (1990s) carbon tube frames.  This is a great achievement for me, considering the Bird of Prey 96 is comprised of 16 panels and a lot of stitching.  Looking forward to trying this glider kite again when Mother Nature behaves in the Northeast.  I will keep the heavier frame for higher wind conditions.  Changing to the lighter frame only moved the center of gravity forward 0.125 inches, so it is not a concern for a glider kite of this size that is over 54 inches long from nose to tail.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSX21ySFZGU3Q2VWc)


Title: Direct Links to Doug Stout's Glider Kite Folders on Google Drive
Post by: Doug S on May 14, 2015, 07:12 AM
Due to the size of this discussion thread, the following provides the direct links to access the overall folder and the indicated folders, which are now stored on my Falcon Aero Designs Google Drive.  Enjoy the viewing. ;D


Overall Folder:

Doug Stout's Glider Kites and Technical Information:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFfm9QWmZzOHpzNC0ySWp2VVBIMHJmeXJPaHZTazY4SXV4dG5NWEMtSUpJLXM&usp=sharing

Individual Folders:

Bird of Prey Glider Kite Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfnBlX0k5VjhscWo5SmlqUFNqdHJwYjJPMjlWem4yMFBmb0d2WDVwSWJmT2s&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfnBlX0k5VjhscWo5SmlqUFNqdHJwYjJPMjlWem4yMFBmb0d2WDVwSWJmT2s&usp=sharing)

Bird of Prey Glider Kite Videos:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFfmR1d2haWUEwOWFNYVJUUm5sY0s2U2hJNGw0QUpLSVE1QTR1YjVkRnRnWGs&usp=sharing

Bird of Prey Glider Kite Plans and Construction Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing)

Hawk Glider Kite Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmtfQ0ZLWFN5bkt3eENHQmRPTkw1djZVNE52a09aazBlSGZ5UnVlZ05pZWs&usp=sharing

Hawk Glider Kite Plans and Construction Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSflZGaFI2RGhMeExLREd3Q2Fma1gzYlhMajQyS3BkbWUtMmFOMEZXa3NUWDQ&usp=sharing

Rapere and other Canard Glider Kite Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfktCcVAzRkVSVFE3cjdkb0RCNkh4d1FpbVN6anlPOTUtTjZzdnVIeHY1Q2s&usp=sharing

Rapere Glider Kite Plans and Construction Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfkwwd3Y0UC1haGdobWtQMXhJNGcyeXBkOFR4T0pqdG9veVlWMHYtcTcwWkE&usp=sharing

Other Glider Kite Pictures:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmZGOUVWZDBWZVRXdG9TVHlEeUptUnVaYXd5bWNkQm1ldGNqYk01RkZYVEE&usp=sharing

Technical Information and Modeling Programs:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfkxvTHdRaTUwYmc4MFpDR1VGcEdUM2dweURwY0xhSDV5N25ieVlDUzFxYTA&usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 14, 2015, 10:30 AM
AWESOME!
btw: if you house all of the those folders in one Drive folder called: "My designs or some such" that would provide one easily shareable link to everything.

Thankyou for this Doug, this is great!!!!


Title: Direct Links to Doug Stout's Glider Kite Folders on Google Drive
Post by: Doug S on May 14, 2015, 10:48 AM
Rob,

I added the link below to access all of the folders.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 14, 2015, 01:28 PM
saweet!!!! love it!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 14, 2015, 03:33 PM
Really nice Doug. A great asset for any one at all interested in kite flying or construction.

Bravo!!!

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on May 14, 2015, 07:53 PM
Doug,
 8)
That data base is great! I for one really appreciate you and everybody else for sharing all of their work with the Forum community. The kiting family is really something special. I feel I have learned a great deal from you these last few months. I am looking forward to building all sorts of kites in the future.

 Thanks Again 
 Tom


Title: Doug Stout's Glider Kites Folders on Google Drive
Post by: Doug S on May 14, 2015, 10:12 PM
Gentlemen,

Thank you and the pleasure is all mine.  Putting this together was an honor and showed me I have been a little busy with glider kites over the past few years, with the encouragement of many on this great forum.  Made a lot of new friends and reconnected with many of my old friends along the way.

During the development of these kites, I tend to focus on the next hopefully great idea and loose sight of what we have learned and now take for granted.   Swept forward wings and Cuben fabric, who knew!

Time to smell the roses and to get in the air again, since my kite bags are a little full of great new toys.   ;D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on May 15, 2015, 06:28 AM
Nice work Doug!  Certainly time to fly.  Heading to Grand Haven tomorrow for the weekend.


Title: Doug Stout's Glider Kites Folders on Google Drive
Post by: Doug S on May 15, 2015, 06:33 AM
Steve,

Thank you and have fun in Grand Haven.  My next event will be in Wildwood, NJ over Memorial Day weekend.

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36 Variations
Post by: Doug S on May 24, 2015, 09:23 AM
The following picture shows the two variations to the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36.  The one on the left is made from blue 0.8 Cuben Fabric and weighs 9.2 grams.  The one on the right is made from multiple colors and weights of Cuben fabric and weighs only 7.6 grams.  They both fly great!  Will have them both at the Wildwood, NJ Indoor event tomorrow.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWEJBa1NPOVF4N00)


Title: Indoor Fun with Birds of Prey at Wildwood
Post by: Doug S on May 28, 2015, 11:10 AM
I had the fortunate pleasure of attending the Indoor Event on Memorial Day at the Wildwood Convention Center, as part of the 30th Wildwoods International Kite Festival.  The venue was large with a wall of glass windows to the east, looking out at the beach and Atlantic Ocean.  Indoor kite flying Heaven!  Thank you Beatrix Pelton for a great Festival!  Reconnected with many of my kiting friends from the 1990s, while making a lot of new friends.  It’s always a pleasure seeing and talking with Dennis Smith, Jim Cosca, Scott and Darren Weider, Steve Santos and Sue Moscowitz.  My old friend Dennis Smith ran the event and the sound system, with a great team of judges.  It was a flash back to the 1990s for me when I use to compete in dual line, with Dennis on the microphone.  It’s hard to believe that my first kite competition was at this great event back in 1991, flying my Falcon stunt kite in Intermediate Precision and Ballet.

Drove down that day (3 hour drive and no traffic) and arrived at the venue a little early to dust off my indoor flying skills and try out the three versions of the BOP 36:  stock at 7.2 grams, 3-panel at 7.6 grams and the heavier blue version at 9.2 grams.  Dennis was already there playing music.  Lisa and Ian Willoughby showed up next.  Lisa and I had a great time flying the three different versions of the BOP 36.  A short time later, a large group of kiting flyers arrived.  The stock BOP 36 was big hit and flown by many that day.  I can't remember all of the names, but I recall Lisa Willoughby, Blake Pelton, Jose Sainz, Jim Cosca, Laura Berg and Glenn Davison were some of the kite flyers having fun with the stock BOP 36 during the day.  I was going to bring down three extra stock BOP 36s just in case for others, but two sold before I left for the event.  Lisa and I flew the three variations of the BOP 36, and she still like the stock one the best.  Lisa flew my prototype BOP 36 in competition and purchased the extra stock one I had with me at the end of the event.  It was great to watch Lisa putting the BOP 36 through its paces with very little time on the kite.  I was pleasantly surprised that right after Blake flew the BOP 36, he ordered one on the spot.  This week Jose also ordered one.  It will be a pleasure building a stock BOP 36 for these two great guys.

Regarding the three variations, I love each version and they each have unique benefits.  With the great indoor conditions, the glide slope for each version was incredibly long and flat.  The stock BOP 36 is still the best ultra-light glider I own at only 7.2 grams, where it can do no wrong and always recovers from mishaps with the flying line (human error).  At my age, human error always needs to be taken into consideration.  During Lisa’s routine, she got the fly line wrapped around one of the wings and the BOP 36 just kept on gliding like it wasn’t there.  The 3-panel/3-color Cuben BOP 36 at 7.6 grams is very cool looking in the air and climbs a little better than the stock BOP 36.  This is because the nose and center of the sail is stiffer, being made from the slightly heavier Cuben fabric.  The stiffness only took away a very slight amount of the forgiveness for the design.  For the single ballet event, I had a hard time choosing between the stock version and the 3-panel version.  I took the easy way out and selected the stock version to fly, to cover up my human errors from bad allergies and head cold.

During the event, I had several BOP 36s assembled along with the BOP 96.  I was pleasantly surprised when Peter Dolphin stopped by after my single line routine and took a close look at my BOP kites.  He was impressed by the construction and light weight of the BOP 36, but really liked the BOP 96 and my workmanship.  The complements from Peter made my day.  With the venue being that large, I was hoping to have a chance to test the BOP 96 indoors with the lighter frame and the new wing spar/center spine joiner.  The opportunity became available after the competition was over.  I stood the BOP 96 up at the far closed bleachers and spooled out about 100 feet of 50 lb. spectra line.  Got up the nerve to pull it in the air and was quite surprised.  It climbed all the way up to the fixtures hanging from the high ceiling and gracefully and slowly glided across the entire area.  Tensioned the line slightly and hoped for a graceful turn and again was quite surprised.  It turned like the BOP 36, just over a larger area.  When the BOP 96 got under 10 feet, did several snap turns over my head, which looked like an old school 8-foot stunt kite doing flat graceful axles.  Now realizing its potential, I flew it close to the ground and did some slow flat turns and then climbed back up to over 20 feet.  That was my jaw dropping moment for the day!  After I landed, others kite flyers, such as Blake Pelton, Jim Cosca and Laura Berg, took a turn flying this majestic glider kite.  This was its first flight with the new lighter frame and it just needs a little more nose weight.  Never expected the BOP 96 to do so well indoors.  If we didn’t accidently get a loop knot in the flying line, I would have flown the BOP 96 until they closed the building.

With the knot in the flying line for the BOP 96, I was able to get in some more air time on the 3-panel and blue BOP 36.  The 3-panel at 7.6 grams will most likely be my new go to indoor glider kite.  I can fly it a little more aggressively than the stock version and the 3-panels/3-colors look great in the air.  The additional weigh only increased the gliding speed a very slight amount.  Regarding the heavier blue version at 9.2 grams, the glide speed was only a slight amount faster than the stock version.  The stiffer sail made the kite climb better and it was more responsive, but slightly less forgiving to human errors due to the stiffer sail.  I found myself flying this version higher in the air, because of the better climb.  Some kite flyers actually like this version better than the stock BOP 36.  The real cool benefit is that this version can cover a lot of ground.  What we learned with these great indoor conditions is the stock BOP 36 is very sensitive to line drag during the glide, and it will slowly turn after about 20 to 30 feet.  It’s like having a dog on a leash, where it always comes back to you.  This is a great attribute that I use during my ballet routine.  The BOP 36 made from the blue Cuben fabric is much more resistant to change from the line drag, so you can let it run out much further.  On one run, I wanted to see how far it would glide and I let it take the entire 50 feet of 10 lb. spectra line right through my hands before I realized it.  It glided straight until I chased down the line.  This is a great kite for larger venues and outdoors.

Since I had way too much fun flying and helping others fly, I didn’t take any pictures.  Sorry.  I sent out a request to the people who that did take pictures and hope to post them in the future.  If you have any, please send them to me at:  douglas.kenneth.stout@gmail.com or falcon.aero.designs@gmail.com.  Blake Pelton shot a great video of Jose Sainz flying the stock BOP 36, which he posted on Facebook.  Blake let me have a copy and I will post the video when I get home later today.

In closing, it was one of the best days of kite flying I have had in many years, and on par with the fun I had recently up at the Dedham, MA event.  Thank you for the great event and complements about my design.  Way too much fun for this old engineer.  Need to do this again in the very near future.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: View of Bird of Prey 36 at Wildwood Indoor Event
Post by: Doug S on May 29, 2015, 06:58 AM
The following link provides a short video of Jose Sainz having fun flying my Bird of Prey 36 at the Wildwood, NJ Indoor Event on May 25, 2015.  The video was taken by Blake Pelton.  Thank you Blake for sharing this video and Jose for having fun with my ultra light Bird of Prey 36.

Bird of Prey 36 at Wildwood Indoor Event:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbjdHYm93UndUaHc/view?usp=sharing

I added a new folder in my Google Drive that just has the Bird of Prey videos, which can be accessed using the following link.  In this folder, you can see me flying the same Bird of Prey 36 as a tribute for Memorial Day 2014, flying in my front yard with a light wind.

Bird of Prey Videos:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFfmR1d2haWUEwOWFNYVJUUm5sY0s2U2hJNGw0QUpLSVE1QTR1YjVkRnRnWGs&usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 29, 2015, 08:28 AM
very very nice.......watching that makes me want to fly it again!!!!


Title: RE: Doug Stouts video's
Post by: twhite510 on May 29, 2015, 03:21 PM
Doug,
SUPER 8) 8) 8)
Very nice video's. I hope more people will make some. I for one included need to make some. If they (i) do can we send them to you to post on your Google drive?


Title: Bird of Prey built by Others
Post by: Doug S on May 29, 2015, 03:50 PM
Tom,

If someone builds one of my Bird of Prey glider kites, I would be more than pleased to add their pictures to my Google Drive for everyone to see.  Some are already there, including some of your Bird of Prey 24s you built for Kite Party.

Yours in kiting,

Doug





Title: Nose Weight inserts for the Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2015, 11:56 AM
After testing flying the Bird of Prey 96 at the Wildwood Indoor Event, we determined it needed just a little more nose weight.  Purchased some 403 Stainless Steel 6 mm OD Rod from McMaster-Carr and cut it up into different lengths.  The attached picture shows what I will try out.  The weight insert on the top is the 75 mm long, 6 mm bolt that weighs 16.8 grams, which I used in the Bird of Prey 96 at the Wildwood Indoor Event.  The rest are the 6 mm OD rod at lengths of 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5 and 5.0 inches, ranging in weight from 17.6 grams to 28.6 grams.  Will start with the 3.5 inch long one at 20.0 grams.  One of these should do the trick for no/low wind conditions, while a heavier one may be need for winds up to 10 mph.  The black portion of the weight insert is a 0.75 inch length of a P100 glued on the end.  The molded end cap just covers this section of the weight.

Later,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdDhGci1UWkM0Qk0)


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - In Flight Pictures
Post by: Doug S on June 07, 2015, 08:07 AM
Attended with my family the ACS Relay for Life Event in Mount Olive, New Jersey on June 6, 2015.  Was able to get some air time with the Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 with the lighter frame (P90s/Zero Airs).  The wind was out of the Northeast coming over a high tree line at 3 to 7 mph, with gusts above 12 mph.  It was fun getting BOP 96 above this layer of turbulence and into the cleaner air.  Quite a few down drafts, which made the BOP 96 do some really cool Harrier type vertical descents.  Once I got into the cleaner air, I spooled out about 200 feet of 75 spectra line.  The following are a few pictures of the BOP 96 in the cleaner air, which air became interesting when the dark cloud moved in from the lower right.  Experimented with the 3.5 and 4 inch lengths of 6 mm OD stainless steel nose weight.  In the indicated wind conditions, the 4 inch let me glide through the turbulence.  I settled for the 3.5, which allowed me to climb better into the cleaner air.

I am working with Tom White on machined Delrin Wing Spars/Center Spine Joiner.  Tom machined two for me, one for the lighter frame (P90s/Zero Airs) and one for the stiffer frame (P100s/2PTs).  The two different frames have slightly different angles at the Joiner, depending on which frame is in this glider kite.  If all goes well, the machined Delrin Joiners will replace my composite tubing joiners that I am currently using.  Regarding flying this 2,079 square inch 8 foot glider kite with the lighter frame in the indicated wind conditions, I was quite surprised that I didn't break the frame.  As with the other BOPs, the wing tips were unloading the excessive lift just fine.  Will be interesting trying the stiffer frame in the same wind conditions.  When I receive the new machined Delrin Joiners, I will dial in the nose weight for each frame.

Later in the day when the wind calmed down to less than 2 mph, I flew the two variations of the ultra-light BOP 36 in a small area closer to the event field.  One is made from the blue Cuben fabric at 9.2 grams, while the other one is made from three different colors/weighs of Cuben fabric at 7.6 grams.  The blue version is a blast to fly and can be flown aggressively, if one so desires.  The three panel/color version flys just like my stock orange BOP 36 and was a real joy flying and floating around the small area I was using.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFamIzNFQ5OXFjYWs)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUF9ycFV3QzVha2s)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFT0VUcmcyMGpySkk)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaEV4OW83S2RwNnM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSFBCSjBtaUtSZG8)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on June 07, 2015, 08:09 AM
;)
So should I start designing my skin yet?

That sounds great Doug!  I enjoy seeing your engineering process.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on June 07, 2015, 08:11 AM
BTW do you think that a simple tail would get the 96er to fly stable?  That would be a very neat look - single long strip tail.......


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on June 07, 2015, 08:30 AM
Thief,

That you for your suggestion, but stability in the turbulent air was not a problem at all, it was climbing in the down drafts that was the entertaining fun.  Did a few laps around the field along with a few harrier landings, while waiting for the right wind conditions.  In the cleaner air above, the Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 did just what I wanted and was very stable without the need for tails to stabilize this glider kite.  It just parks itself.  It never showed the overloaded spin characteristics of a traditional single line kite in winds above what it was designed for.  When you pull in the line, it will climb overhead and just glide at the new higher angle.  In either wind conditions (low turbulence or higher cleaner air), the BOP 96 was a joy to fly and control.  Regarding the cool factor, I have materials to make simulated contrails off of the tail and wing tips out of narrow white or silver foil.  Will give that a try when I fly it again at a better inland field during more moderate wind conditions.

We are almost done dialing in this BOP, where Tom White and I affectionately call it the Beast.  It got this name because when it's assembled and hanging in my work shop for Joiner angle measurements for Tom, it takes up most of my work shop as shown in the following picture.  This picture is looking along the back of the sail, which has the stiffer frame and my stiffer composite Joiner.  In the picture at the top, you can see the original external silver nose weight, where we are now using the internal 6 mm OD stainless steel rod inserts.

Tom has been very enthusiastic about my development of this glider kite, along with his development of the nice Delrin Joiner.  I am going to first make a BOP 96 for Tom in my color layout, which he likes.  For you, we should talk live about what you are thinking for a layout and what type of wind conditions you wish to fly it in, since this glider kite uses a few yards of PC31 and we are tinkering with two frame sets.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcng0VzhSbEp4TzQ)


Title: Re: BOP96
Post by: twhite510 on June 07, 2015, 08:45 AM
Doug, 

 I really like the pictures you took of the BOP96 with the dark clouds off to the side. It is great to see it up and flying.

 You will need to practice your video shooting and one handed flying. ;D We really want to see some more videos.

 Awsome work!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on June 07, 2015, 09:41 AM
Yeah.......
I think you need to take a look at the windfire designs morpho grande..... This big'un is sounding like it has some similar characteristics....
The morpho had a very flat skin, but a bow is brought in from the top of the nose about a1/3rd down the some.... Makes a fun gliding stable flying and then gliding delta.


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on June 07, 2015, 11:03 AM
Rob,

The glider kite you referenced has a traditional swept back leading edge, where the sail shape reminds me of the old Top of The Line Hawian Team Stunt Kite.  Would expect it fly like Horvath's Long Way Home glider kite.  The Bird of Prey has the same flight characteristics as its smaller brothers, with light line tension for its associated size and a gentle stall.  The flat turn in clean air is mesmerizing.  Swept forward wings provide a different flying experience, but I am a little biased.  ;D

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36M - Plans and Pictures
Post by: Doug S on June 10, 2015, 08:52 PM
Completed the testing of the 3 panel version of the Bird of Prey 36M, which is made from three different colors and weights of Cuben Fabric.  The "M" designation is for Multiple Panels.  The following provides the links to download the plans: 

Bird of Prey 36M Specification Plans (May 24, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbDBrVDV4cWdhOFE/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbDBrVDV4cWdhOFE/view?usp=sharing)

Bird of Prey 36M Pattern Plans (May 24, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeWF0UWVLdC14U2s/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeWF0UWVLdC14U2s/view?usp=sharing)

If you access my Google Drive, these plans can be found there, along with various pictures of different areas of this completed glider kite.  A several of the pictures are provided below. 

The Bird of Prey 36M weighs 7.6 grams and balances where desired, without any additional nose weight, due to the heavier Cuben Fabric being used in the forward portion of the design, along with the associated glue and stitching.  Also, I am using a different FSD Nock (3 mm ID), which has a thicker wall and an OD of 6.3 mm.  It weights the same as the FSD 3.2 mm Nock glued inside the FSD 5 mm Nock.  With this single nock, one needs to extend the center spine to 20 3/4 inches.  These changes are noted on the Specification Plans.  This change in FSD Nocks also can be used for the standard single panel version of the Bird of Prey 36.

Performance wise, I love the way this glider kite looks in the air and handles on the flying line.  Its performance is on par with the standard single panel version of the Bird of Prey 36.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZGs0aFpCb25sbEk)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU1U5Rk5fNHlETlU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFR29MQnlwcEN6dmc)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFME44VWpnNEh6UWM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFV29ZZ1ZrZklvM1U)


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - New Delrin Joiner and Some Evening Flight Pictures
Post by: Doug S on June 10, 2015, 09:12 PM
For the Bird of Prey 96, Tom White machined some great Wing Spar/Center Spine Joiners out of Delrin for me.  Tom and I have been dialing the correct angles (dihedral and forward sweep), and the new ones were perfect.  The following pictures show the new Delrin Joiner mounted in the lighter frame, along with it assembled in my front yard for flight.  Note how high the wing tips are off the ground, where the composite tubing joiner just was not stiff enough to maintain the desire dihedral unless the kite was in the air with the sail under load.  I also included a few pictures of me having fun with the Bird of Prey 96 with the new Delrin Joiner during the dusk hours in my front yard.  Sorry for the blurriness of the in-flight pictures.  Hard to fly this big glider kite with one hand and take pictures with the other hand.  These pictures also are on my Google Drive.  I believe I have this light frame configuration of the Bird of Prey 96 dialed in.  Will test the new Delrin Joiner with the heavier frame this weekend.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRm9PMjQtNzR3eE0)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFLWdUMmxrZEtjX0E)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMy04SUlnUUd1QlE)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbnhIOE1vcGNJV1k)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQ2JIamVEYUJFRmM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbXNPSzBNRng5YUk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DavidformerlyDavid on June 10, 2015, 10:16 PM
Hi, Doug!

  I'm intrigued by the new joiner.  You wrote that they were machined out of Delron, but might they also be 3D printed?  I'd love to get a Solidworks file for that dihedral and see what might be done with a printer.  If successful, this would be an easy thing to manufacture repeatably, and you could include the print file with your plans.

cheers,

David
(Happy BoP flyer)


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on June 11, 2015, 10:51 AM
David,

Thank you for your interest in this glider kite's joiner.  With my other Bird of Prey glider kites, I was able to find "off of the shelf" materials to construct each joiner that was stiff enough, but can flex just the right amount to obtain the desired flight characteristics.  This worked fine up to and including my Bird of Prey 62 with 862 square inches of projected sail area.  That all changed when I finished the Bird of Prey 96, with 2,079 square inches of project sail area.  There are various loads on the joiner, to allow the wing spars to have a slight "S" curve due to the desired tension on the cross line, while maintaining the desired 10 degrees of dihedral for each side, along with the swept forward angle to tension the sail appropriately.

Based on this, Tom White and I discussed making one out from Delrin.  I made the mistake of calling it Delron, but Tom corrected me and I have revised my prior posts with the correct name of this material.  Before Tom could finish the design of the Delrin Joiner, I needed to make a surrogate joiner out of "off of the shelf" materials that would set the wings spars at the correct angles.  The surrogate that worked was made from a composite of two types of tubing material, which set the correct angles and allowed me to measure those angles, to allow fabrication of the Delrin Joiner.  The Composite Tubing Joiner that worked was not stiff enough for any significant loads to the sail, such as from moderate winds or an aggressive climb.  It did work just fine for no wind/indoor flying conditions.  Since we are experimenting with two different frame (Skyshark P90s/Zero Airs and P100s/2PTs), the joiner angles are different for each frame because of the flexibility of each frame.  The Delrin Joiner is very stiff as compared to the Composite Tubing Joiner, so any flexibility needed to allow the Bird of Prey 96 to fly appropriately is done by using a mix of straight and tapered carbon wrapped tubes from Skyshark, as described above.  The tapered tubes are used in full length for the wing spars, from the cross line connection point to the wing tips.  A tapered tube in used in full length for the center spine, from the tail up through the location of the Joiner.

Using either the Composite Tubing Joiner or the machined Delrin Joiner, there are various forces acting on these joiners at various directions, due to the complex nature of this swept forward wing design.  Tom and I felt that we would need a quality material, such as Delrin, that would handle these forces acting at various directions, while having a smaller wall thickness, because the Delrin has a higher density than the composite tubing.

Based on your question about 3D printing, it's more likely that the 3D manufacturing technique will have a weakness in the plane of how the material is layered, and such material could split along this plane and cause a catastrophic failure of the joiner and damage the sail.  For now, we will continue with our development efforts using the Delrin.

With all of Tom's support and interest in the Bird of Prey 96, he has asked and I will build for him one just like mine in the near future.  I want to get this Bird of Prey 96 glider kite in his hands and get his input before I determine what the future availability and configuration of this glider kite will be for others.  It was not a quick build, but has been a very rewarding kite to design and fly.  Thank you again for your interest.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey Glider Kites
Post by: Doug S on June 18, 2015, 11:14 AM
I made some minor edits to the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 (single panel/color) glider plans, which show the single 3 mm FSD nock and the longer center spine (20 3/4 inches), which is needed for this FSD nock.  I also uploaded to my Google Drive the plans for the Bird of Prey 36B, which is the same pattern as the standard Bird of Prey 36, but uses the slightly heavier blue Cuben fabric.  "B" stands for the second version of this model and the blue color of the fabric.  The direct link to the Bird of Prey 36B plans are provided below:

Bird of Prey 36B Specification Plan (June 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcmVNSGxidGktdUU/view?usp=sharing

Bird of Prey 36B Template Plan (June 15, 2015):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRTZMeXBUakdydDg/view?usp=sharing 

At the suggestion of other glider kite enthusiasts, I started a new post so one has easy and direct access to my Google Drive, without having to move through the numerous pages of this discussion thread.  This will make it easy to others to find the links.   I added a new folder that contains pictures of Bird of Prey glider kites built by others, such as Tom White.  The plans and pictures indicated above are provided in the appropriate folders on my Google Drive.  Enjoy!  ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 36M out for an Evening Flight
Post by: Doug S on June 27, 2015, 07:27 AM
Weather was just right the other night.  Took the Bird of Prey 36M our for a flight in my front yard.  I do love this glider kite.

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTXZEb2ZXMFJwSlk)


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on June 27, 2015, 10:34 AM
With the new machined wing spar/center spine joiner, I wanted to let the Bird of Prey 96 sit assembled hanging in my basement for at least a week to see how much the 170 pound spectra/Dacron covered cross line would stretch out.  It only stretched about 3/32 of an inch, which lowered the dihedral by about 1.5 inches.  Even with the lighter frame  (Skyshark P90s/Zero Airs), there is a bit of tension on this cross line, which is what I wanted as the result of the angles Tom and I used for the machined joiner.  This tension keeps the frame stiff between the connection points of the cross line, so when the sail is under load, the tips will flex and washout as desired.  The length of the cross line on the Bird of Prey glider kites is very sensitive to minor adjustments.  I re-adjusted the cross line knot location to obtain the desired 16.5 inches (20 degrees) of dihedral and we are set to finish my test flying.

The Bird of Prey 96 with the lighter frame (Skyshark P90s/Zero Airs) and the new wing spar/center spine joiner weights 145.2 grams, which includes 20 grams of nose weight for the 3.5 inches of 6 mm OD stainless steel rod to obtain the desired location for the center of gravity.  As an unanticipated benefit, it appears this concentrated mass of nose weight is acting like the tail weight in stunt kites, which helps me spin this glider kite around in tight circles above my head.  At 145.2 grams, this provides a sail loading of 0.0699 grams/sq.in. of projected sail area of 2,079 square inches.  For your information, the total sail area before assembly is 2,113 square inches.  This sail loading is in line with and lighter than my other conventional eight foot glider kites with six sail panels.  The center of gravity is 21.625 inches behind the nose of the sail, which provides a static margin of 2.2%, which is the sweet spot for my Bird of Prey 48 and 62.  Now if mother nature would cooperate (it’s raining again in the northeast), the Bird of Prey 96 is ready for one last set of test flights in a large open field under no/low wind conditions.  During the next step of testing, I also will install and test the Bird of Prey 96 with the heavier frame (Skyshark P100s/2PTs).  Next week, I will start building the one just like mine for Tom White.

In the future, I may look into reducing and adjusting the number of panels and the associated seams behind the center of gravity, so that I can in turn reduce the 20 grams of nose weight to achieve the desired center of gravity.  These refinements would allow me to reduce the overall sail loading of this large glider kite.  As a point of reference, the Bird of Prey 96 with the 16 double stitched panels has a lower sail loading by about 9% than the HQ Hybrid 240 (estimated to be 0.0763 grams/sq.in), but has a higher sail loading by about 16% than Horvath's The Long Way Home (estimated to be 0.0590 grams/sq.in.).

Since the glide slope on the Bird of Prey glider kites is extremely flat, the reduction of total weight may not be desired for this size glider kite with a mean wing chord of 21.66 inches.  What we have found for outdoor flying the higher sail loadings help the Bird of Prey glider kites penetrate turbulent air and glide more efficiently, where the larger lower sail loading Bird of Prey glider kites, such as the Bird of Prey 48 made with Cuben fabric, stop forward movement and park when encountering turbulent air.  Just my thoughts while I continue to experiment with this large beautiful glider kite, but I am a little biased.  ;D

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DD on June 28, 2015, 08:08 AM
Could you get away with not sewing at all but using 3m tape?


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on June 29, 2015, 08:01 AM
DD,

Thank you for your suggestion.  I built the prototype of the Bird of Prey 96 with straight panels where I prefer to use a Plan Seam.  This is how I use to build my stunt kites and it's a very strong seam.  This seam has an extra layer of sail material along the seam, along with the additional row of stitching.  My goal with the prototype of the Bird of Prey 96 was to see how it also could handle higher wind conditions, so this construction technique was appropriate.  I have flown the Bird of Prey 96 in winds up to 15 mph and it does just fine, but does have a bit of pull on the flying line during the climb.  Considering the 2,079 square inches of projected sail area, the pull on the flying line during a climb in the higher wind conditions was expected.

I also could use a Lap Seam that only requires one line of stitching.  This is the technique I use on the Bird of Prey glider kites that have the curved panel lines.  I prefer using a glue stick to hold the panels together before stitching, which gives one a second chance to adjust the alignment if you don't have the panels aligned correctly.  Regarding your suggestion to use just double sided tape, I have found that under higher temperatures and moderate wind conditions, the adhesive will give and the panels will slip.  I have experienced this with some glider kites designed/build by others.

As a point of reference, the prototype of the Bird of Prey 48 was built with 12 panels using a Plain Seam and weighs 31.8 grams.  The plan/production version of the Bird of Prey 48 was built with just 5 curved panels using a Lap Seam and weighs 30.7 grams, providing a weight savings of about 3.5%.   If I apply this weight savings to the Bird of Prey 96, I would be able to reduce the weight of this glider kite by approximately 5 grams.  Since most of the Bird of Prey glider kites need some nose weight, if I reduce the number of panels behind the center of gravity, this also will help save some weight.

If one was looking for the lightest version of the Bird of Prey 96, the least amount of panels/colors would be the way to go, but I personally like the looks of this glider kite in the air.  As indicated in my previous post, my limited flying time on this glider kite indicates that lighter may not be the way to go.  That is why I want to get a second one in Tom White's hands on the west coast to see if he sees what I am seeing.  When I test flew the Bird of Prey 96 indoors at the Wildwood NJ event, it flew very well.  This was before I had the stiffer machined joiner and the center of gravity dial in.  It was a just a little tail heavy when I flew it in Wildwood, NJ.  Thank you again and I will keep you posted on my future endeavors with this version of my Bird of Prey.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: DD on June 29, 2015, 08:51 AM
Doug,
 Are you talking the 3m tape(which i cant find a name or a number on at the moment) I have never seen that tape fail or move and was told by a prominent builder that he considered not using stitching but just the tape. I told him "no way" and after setting some fabric up with it he challenged me to get it apart. The fabric failed before the tape.
Love all  of your discussions, keep up the good work!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Revrookie on June 29, 2015, 09:19 AM
9460 VHB tape made by 3M and a hot iron to fuse it forever - Paul LaMasters on KiteLife.

It seems the ironing causes the final fusion that makes it permanent.

Kelly


Title: Tape
Post by: Doug S on June 30, 2015, 07:44 AM
DD and Revrookie,

For double sided tape and at the recommendation of others on this forum, I have been using various widths of the 3M 924 Non-Acid Free ATG tape from framingsupplies.com.  As indicated in my prior post, my experience for Lap Seams has been better with an Elmer's Glue Stick and stitching, following Sugerbaker's assembly process.  Thank you for the suggestion and I will look into the 3M 9460 tape.

One should keep in mind the weight of the tape/glue as compared to stitching.  Recently I build a three panel version of my ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 using Cubin Fabric and was pleasantly surprised how little weight the glue stick/stitching assembly technique added to the overall weight of this glider kite.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: nckiter on June 30, 2015, 11:33 AM
Hi Doug,
Been following your design and build process all along. Great stuff, nice looking birds, hope to try one out one day.

The 924 is a great tape in it's own right and similar to the 9460 in that they are both adhesive transfer products, that is there is no carrier scrim left after you peel off the backing, just pure adhesive. They are both acrylic adhesives but different formulas. I find the 924 gums my machine needles far more that the 9460. The 9460 is a VHB (very high bond) adhesive and will give "permanent" bonds. You've found the right place to get the 924, for the 9460 try Tape Case.

 http://www.tapecase.com/pd/cn/tapes-die-cuts/1024/1000694/3m-f9460pc-vhb-adhesive-transfer-tape.aspx (http://www.tapecase.com/pd/cn/tapes-die-cuts/1024/1000694/3m-f9460pc-vhb-adhesive-transfer-tape.aspx)

I have bought it from them in widths from 1/8" to 3/8".


Title: Bird of Prey 96 Video - Adjusting the Center of Gravity Location
Post by: Doug S on July 11, 2015, 07:45 PM
Had a chance to get to out to our local sports field complex this evening under ideal conditions to dial in the Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 in no/low wind conditions, which winds were less than 1 mph.  Flew the BOP 96 on 250 feet of 50 lb. Spectra flying line.  Started with 3.5 inch length of the 6 mm Stainless Steel for nose weight, but the BOP 96 was gliding on the lower end (left side) of the Lift/Drag (L/D) curve.  This may be due to me using the lighter 50 lb. flying line that provides less line drag and nose weight, which line was the right weight for the wind conditions.  Tried the 4 inch length of nose weight and the BOP 96 flew very well, but still had a very slight and gentle stall/recovery cycle.  I then inserted the 4.5 inch length of nose weight, which extended the glide with a much better L/D glide slope.  Was able in no wind conditions to cover the entire length and then width of a full size soccer field on a single tow.  The following link is of the BOP 96 on a flyby, when I had the 4 inch length of nose weight in place.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeXUxVWVFcXAtamM/view?usp=sharing

The video is stored on my Google Drive.  Videos during the trimming phase are great, because you can see characteristics of the glide you don't see while you are busy flying the glider kite.

Note during the flyby the slight rocking up and down of the nose, which is a slight stall then recovery.  This is an indication the BOP 96 was still a little tail heavy with the 4 inch length of nose weight.  Also note near the end of the turn how the BOP 96 slows down and has a steeper glide angle when going into the very slight wind, which is also an indication of it being still a little tail heavy.

After I installed the 4.5 inch length of nose weight, the glide became longer and flatter.  It became too dark to try the 5 inch length of nose weight, to confirm I am close to the sweet spot for the glide angle in no wind conditions with the light frame (Zero Airs/P90s).  With this large glider kite, it was impossible to hold my iPhone as a movie camera in one hand and pull in the line for a climb with the other hand. :D

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey Plan Updates
Post by: Doug S on July 16, 2015, 06:43 PM
After completing three new Bird of Prey 36s for other glider kite enthusiasts, it was time to adjust the ultra-light plans slightly regarding the batten pockets along the wing spar sleeves.  The change matches what I have been doing on my recent builds, where I moved the PC-31 pockets to the edge of the Cuben Fabric that is folded over to make the wing spar sleeves.  With this move, I increased the width of the Cuben reinforcement by 1/16 inches on each side, so it extends 1/16 inches past each the wing spar sleeve.  I made the updates to the following Bird of Prey glider kite plans:

  •  Bird of Prey 24
  •  Bird of Prey 24S
  •  Bird of Prey 36
  •  Bird of Prey 36B
  •  Bird of Prey 36M

The updated plans can be found on my Google Drive, which link is as follows:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing)

So as not to confuse anyone, I have removed the outdated versions of these plans from my Google Drive.

The following picture is of the three Bird of Prey 36s that I just finished this past weekend out for a test flight on Monday evening.  Hard to let these leave the nest because they fly so well, but I am a little biased.  ;D

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUE9ySmdqdDZQWEU)

Back to some minor trimming and final testing on the Bird of Prey 96, then I start construction on one for Tom White.  Also have a BOP 48 to build for another glider kite enthusiast.  Thank you for the building requests.  :)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Revrookie on July 17, 2015, 01:38 PM
Not keeping you too busy are we?


Title: Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on July 17, 2015, 02:54 PM
Just the right amount.  :D


Title: Bird of Prey Progress Update
Post by: Doug S on August 02, 2015, 05:54 PM
I added to my Google Drive the Plans for the Bird of Prey 48, where the panels are joined together with straight stitching.  The overlap seam was reduced to 3/16 inches.  The plans for the original version with the zigzag stitching are still on my Google Drive.

Haven't posted in a while because I have been busy in my workshop.  I am in the process of building three different Bird of Prey glider kites with different construction techniques, which makes it fun.  They consist of an ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 going to the UK, a Bird of Prey 48 going to Canada and a Bird of Prey 96 for Tom White in California.  Trying to completed them before the second week in August.

Regarding the Bird of Prey 96, I was trying to tension the leading edge, from the nose to the wing spars, by adjusting the location of the wing spar joiner along the center spine and trying different joiners with varying degrees of forward angle.  It turns out that I had the nose bungee too loose.  Tightened the bungee and we are now good to go.  Have test flown this glider kite with the light frame (P90s/Zero Airs) and nose weights range in length from 3.5 inches (20 grams) to 6 inches (34.3 grams).  I can change the nose weight in less then 15 seconds, which makes testing out the glide fun.  As I increase the length of the nose weight by 0.5 inches, the center of gravity moves forward by about 0.25 inches.  The glide sweet spot appears to be with the 4.5 inch nose weight at 25.7 grams, which moves the center of gravity to 21 inches behind the nose with a very low static margin of 0.03 percent.  With this nose weight, the Bird of Prey 96 weighs 150.8 grams, with a sail loading of 0.0725 grams/sq.yd. of projected sail area.  This large glider kite handles this sail loading just fine, and it now has a long flat glide and can cover ground.  When the weather is right again and not so hot, I look forward to flying the Bird of Prey 96 at our local sports field complex again and put it through its paces.

Tom and I have dialed in the Delrin Machined Joiners for the two different sets of frames (P90s/Zero Airs and P100s/2PTs).  Tom White also will receive a selection of nose weights so he can experiment with the glide trim on his Bird of Prey 96.  Why should I be the only one having fun and driving myself crazy with these cool adjustments.

Back to the workshop.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: BOP96
Post by: twhite510 on August 02, 2015, 06:34 PM
Doug,

 It has been great getting to work with you on your BOP96. I have learned a boat load from you. I really appreciate it.
 I can't wait to get my hands on the 96. It will be a totally new learning experiance getting that beast dialed in. Looking forward to it.

Tom


Title: Bird of Prey 36 - CG Check and Trimming Tip
Post by: Doug S on August 06, 2015, 12:56 PM
If any of you are considering building a Bird of Prey 36 or any other of the Bird of Prey glider kites, please verify the location of the center of gravity (CG) after your construction, as compared to what I have indicated on the plans.  The nose weight indicated on the plans was for my prototype of each version of this glider kite series.  As I build different models for other glider kite enthusiasts and make refinements to the design, I update the plans to reflect these refinements and any changes in the required nose weight.  Construction techniques and materials can vary, which in turn can alter the location of the CG.  As you may have seen in my posts for the development of the Bird of Prey 96, I have been performing many tests and adjustments to the location of the CG,  to optimize flight performance for a specific frame weight, stiffness and joiner angle.  The following provides a recent experience with an ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 regarding the location of the CG.

In a recent Bird of Prey 36 build, I used the new thicker wall nose cap (FSD 3.0 mm ID Nock) instead of two thinner ones glued together.  My side by side comparison of these two Nock assemblies indicates they are about the same weight, as measured on my Ohaus Triple Beam Balance Scale.  I also used a new 1/16 inch ID vinyl end cap that has a thinner wall.   In the past during my discussions with Cubic Tech, I was informed the density of the Cuben fabric may vary slightly over a length of a production run, which is 118 feet (36 meters) in length.  Since the orange Cubic Fabric 0.34 is in short supply at this time, I have several end runs from different production runs that I am using.  The Cuben Fabric for this Bird of Prey 36 appears to be slightly stiffer than my prior builds.

I took this Bird of Prey 36 out for a test flight and it was acting tail heavy in flight.   I observed that it was cycling during a glide between a slight stall and the associated recovery.  The glide slope was not long and flat, and it wanted to just hover in a very light wind.  The positive aspects of being tail heavy was it would spin very easily and was very responsive to line inputs.

Back in my workshop I check the CG and it was at 8 1/4 inches from the nose of the sail.  This location of the CG made sense, based on my observations during the test flight.  For your information, the desired location for the CG for this glider kite is 8 inches.  It appears one or more of the above factors may have influenced the shift in location of the CG.  I extended the tubing nose weight from 1 to 2 inches to move the CG forward to the desired location.  The subsequent test flight indicated the Bird of Prey 36 was dialed in and a joy to fly.  The glides were long and flat, and the responsiveness to line commands was more appropriate and predictable. 

In summary, it is good to know the location of the CG for your glider kite, even if you are using similar materials and construction techniques to build your glider kite.  It is also good to know how to adjust the CG, so you can dial in your glider kite.  It is my recommendation that you experiment with various CG locations so you can understand how it changes flight performance.  I have assisted other glider kite enthuses adjust the CG for their glider kites, based on my observations.  The fun is teaching them what to look for and how to make the adjustments to dial in their glider kite.

Test flying my builds before they are shipped is one of my quality control steps, which in this case helped me catch the moved CG and adjust this Bird of Prey 36 to meet the desired performance criteria.  Just my thoughts for your consideration.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Patriotic Bird of Prey
Post by: Doug S on August 07, 2015, 08:03 AM
About a year ago after I developed the Bird Layout for the Bird of Prey, I draft a conceptual Patriotic version.  Since I use the colors of our flag, I always wanted to take this design layout the next step and add more details.

Since I have the Bird of Prey 96 dialed in and finishing one up for Tom White to give a try, I decided to revisit conceptual Patriotic version.  The layout was refined to capture the key attributes of a Bald Eagle within the shape of the Bird of Prey.  It was a very pleasant experience viewing may pictures of Bald Eagles.   Some of the new attributes can only be made with the help of Tom White and his great aluminum templates.  I have been corresponding with Tom sharing the various refinements over the past week to get his independent impressions.  Keeping with the patriotic theme to honor our great country, this version of the Bird of Prey has a wing span of 76 inches, 13 stars and 13 strips, with one of the red stripes split by the white tail.

The following picture is what I believe will be the final version.  The picture is a filled in version using Microsoft Paint so you can see the color layout.  Please note that the Paint version does not honor the fine curved lines of my AutoCAD file, such as the beak, eyes and feathers.

Bird of Prey 76 - Panel Outline View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcGN5RU5tc3NoTTg)

Bird of Prey 76 - Color Filled View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFb3ZzWmpvUDFKMWc)

Time to draft the individual patterns for Tom to make a set of templates, then enjoy building this version of the Bird of Prey.  It has been a pleasure sharing my development and variations of the Bird of Prey glider kite.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Revrookie on August 07, 2015, 10:07 AM
I like the eyes and beak that you came up with. Very bird like but still stylized enough to fit the motif.


Title: Bird of Prey 48 and 96 In Process
Post by: Doug S on August 18, 2015, 12:52 PM
The following is a picture of a recent Bird of Prey 48 build that was just delivered to its new owner in Calgary, Canada.  At the request of the owner, the nose reinforcement is longer and diamond shaped to simulate part of the beak.

Bird of Prey 48
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFX1hqMUpGOUl5QTg)

Been working on Tom White's Bird of Prey 96.  The following provides a few pictures of this Bird of Prey in process.  Just need to add the wing spar sleeve, pockets, reinforcements and white pin striping around the simulated cockpit.  Will be building two sets of frames and various nose weight inserts for Tom to tinker with.  After a test flight, there will be two of these beasts.

Bird of Prey 96 - Center Section Sewn Together
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdVNzb2c0Y05CMWs)

Bird of Prey 96 - Wing Sections Sewn Together
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSGNFRXptcE5YWlE)

Bird of Prey 96 - Sail Sewn Together and Hemmed
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaU12ck9oRmNqVUU)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on August 18, 2015, 01:29 PM
Yippeeee :)
 I can't wait to get that Beast in the air. This will be the coolest kite I have.
Thanks. Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on August 18, 2015, 01:43 PM
why is your door hung sideways?

;P


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on August 18, 2015, 01:45 PM
that does look fantastic.....very very nice....both of them.


Title: Bird of Prey 96 and Bird of Prey 76
Post by: Doug S on August 18, 2015, 06:13 PM
Thief,

So you like the sideways door to my basement workshop.  It was tough to turn my house on its side to get that picture.  :D  In all seriousness, the picture is rotated so the nose is pointing up and the orientation matches the landscape view of the other two pictures.  Thank you for the observation and complement.  While Tom White is ringing out his Bird of Prey 96 so I can finalize the design, I will begin the build on the Patriotic Eagle Bird of Prey 76.

Haven't posted in a while because I was finishing Birds of Prey for others and finalizing the plans for the Bird of Prey 76, so Tom could make me the templates.  Way too many parts on the Bird of Prey 76, but I love a challenge!

All of this kiting work was done before my complex and aggressive sinus surgery last Tuesday (August 11, 2015).  To say I was a little on edge about what the surgeon was going to do would be putting it mildly. :o  The surgery went as expected and recovery at home since last Tuesday night has been successful so far.  Feel well enough now to joke about it.  Was able to get a few hours in the workshop over the last few days to make good progress on Tom's Bird of Prey 96.  When I am fully recovered, I hope to no longer be a walking barometer predicting changes in the weather.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on August 23, 2015, 02:52 PM
And then there were two.  The following is a picture of two Bird of Prey 96 glider kites, with my original on the left and the new one for Tom White on the right.

With the lighter frame (P90s/Zero Airs) installed that weighs 63.6 grams, the total glider kite weighs 157.6 grams, which includes 25.8 grams of nose weight (4.5 inches in length).  The center of gravity is 21 inches behind the nose of the sail with this nose weight.  Tom also will be trying out the heavier frame (P100s/2PTs) that weighs 80.8 grams and a selection of stainless steel nose weighs (3.5, 4, 4.5, 5 5.5 and 6 inches in length).

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRmxyV2JqbzIyRjA)


Title: Re: BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on August 23, 2015, 05:42 PM
Doug.
 I can't wait to test the Beast out. It is too cool. I may have to call in sick the day after I get it  ???
Thanks again
Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on August 27, 2015, 04:47 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
 Just received my BOP 96
Thief ,What do you think? 8)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/735/20748067688_bacf7bce25_c.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5830/20909769286_35998fda95_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on August 27, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jealous :(


Title: Re: Re: Re: Doug Stout's BOP 96
Post by: DD on August 27, 2015, 07:00 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D
 Just received my BOP 96
Thief ,What do you think? 8)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/735/20748067688_bacf7bce25_c.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5830/20909769286_35998fda95_b.jpg)
Sweet! How is it?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on August 27, 2015, 08:08 PM
DD
I have not gotten a chance to fly it yet. I will be heading to the Beach (Oxnard) on Sunday. I will try to take it out Tomorrow after work. I will try to get a video if I can get somebody to go with me.
 The craftsmanship on the kite is impeccable. The stitching is perfectly straight on those long runs. The panel alignment is top notch. Doug has really outdone himself this time.

 Doug,
 Again many thanks for building it for me.

Tom


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on August 27, 2015, 08:20 PM
Tom,

Thank you for the kind words.  Couldn't have done it without your great machined delrin joiner.  It was a real pleasure building this glider kite for you.  Enjoy and have fun trying our the different nose weights and two frames.

Yours in kiting,

Doug
 


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on August 28, 2015, 03:35 AM
Wow

Looks fantastic!

Mike


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on August 30, 2015, 05:36 PM
Tom,

Thank you for the two pictures.  I posted them along with the construction detail pictures I sent you on my Google Drive.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - Flight In Memory of 9/11
Post by: Doug S on September 11, 2015, 03:14 PM
In memory of those who lost their lives on 9/11, flew my Bird of Prey 96 at our local sports field to the enjoyment of the families using the complex.

I now have my version of this glider kite dialed using nose weights ranging from 4.5 to 5.5 inches in length.  With the large size and weight of this glider kite, it flys best in winds at 2 mph and above.  With little effort, I was covering the entire length and width of a standard soccer field, using all of my 250 feet of 75 lb. spectra flying line.  I could have used 50 lb. spectra line without a problem, but due to the wind speed after a thermal broke free, I wanted to be on the safe side.  The longer nose weight (5.5 inches) allowed the Bird of Prey 96 to easily transition into a long flat glide.  I was using the thermal activity to my advantage and this glider kite reacts to and uses thermals like it's living winged brothers and sisters.  Was a great hour of flying with many mouth open and smile moments.  ;D  The Bird of Prey 96 is a big glider kite for big fields.  ;)  The one word to best describe this glider kite is majestic.

Next time I go out, I am using my longer spool of 75 lb. spectra line.  My goal is to see if I can cover the entire sports complex, which is about 1,000 by 1,000 feet in size.  Tom White is in the process of flying his and I look forward to his feedback.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTEtjRU1KS1ZnT0E)

Yours in kiting,

Doug



Title: Bird of Prey - New Enhanced Layout
Post by: Doug S on September 13, 2015, 07:58 AM
I have been experimenting with an enhanced layout of the standard Bird pattern that would break the sail into more curved panels.  This would allow for different sizes to be constructed and not limited to width of the PC31 fabric.  The following illustration is what I have come up with so far, which uses three shades of blue, white and grey.  This color version has a Laima flavor to it, since I am a fan of those graphics.  This layout should provide a great deal of flexibility to use a variety of PC31 colors.  I look forward to your input.

I am thinking the first build of this enhanced layout will be in the 5 to 6 foot wing span size.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTUdtVFkzWXY5VzA)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: chilese on September 13, 2015, 08:18 AM
The RWB 8 footer looks excellent.  :)


Title: Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on September 13, 2015, 08:48 AM
John,

Thank you for the feedback on the Bird of Prey 96.  I do love this layout, it's a pleasure to build since it's all straight stitching and it works within the width of the PC31.  My suggested other layout is just an alternative for consideration.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: chilese on September 13, 2015, 09:29 AM
You might post a blank and ask for panel layout suggestions.

Just list your restrictions for the size involved.  :)


Title: Bird of Prey Outline for Panel Suggestions
Post by: Doug S on September 13, 2015, 01:07 PM
John,

At your suggestion, the following links provide the full scale outline for the Bird of Prey 48 and a screen shot size version I use for colorization, so others may experiment with panel suggestions.  I have included the reinforcements that will be seen from the front of the sail, along with the locations for the two bridle attachment points along the center of the sail.  The files are stored on my Google Drive, under the Bird of Prey Glider Kite Plans Folder.

Bird of Prey 48 Outline in Full Scale printed as a PDF File

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFektYZWR0SWFIdG8/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFektYZWR0SWFIdG8/view?usp=sharing)

Bird of Prey 48 Outline in Full Scale as a JPG File (Saved as a JPG from the PDF File)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMks2d2tmQk1rU2c/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMks2d2tmQk1rU2c/view?usp=sharing)

Bird of Prey 48 Outline Screen Shot (Exported as a BMP File, then saved as a JPG File)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM014T1U0b1lpc28/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM014T1U0b1lpc28/view?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM014T1U0b1lpc28)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: chilese on September 13, 2015, 02:54 PM
Phoenix Bird of Prey

(that was fun)  :)

Looks a little wasteful on the material though.  :(

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on September 13, 2015, 06:32 PM
 So I just got back from Flying the BOP 96 at the beach. Normally this beach has very steady winds. Not so today, they were very light and variable. 3-5Max.then nothing. So here it goes.
 
 The BOP96 is a BLAST to fly.  I cannot wait to get several days on it to start feeling really comfortable with it. This being a large "Glider" actually requires a light but very deliberate touch to fly. You do not want to man handle or over power the kite. It needs to do its thing. This thing loves to glide. It literally wants to fly itself. I am learning that when you want it to turn you do not force it. Gentle but steady does the trick. Doug supplied me with an assortment of nose weights to try out. I found for my liking in the winds I had today the next to heaviest  worked great. I did not mess with the bridle adjustment today. I like changing only 1 parameter at a time. I could go on and on about all I learned today, but I felt the need to share with all that are following this thread.

  I am still grinning thinking about flying the BOP96 today. This is what life is about.

Doug,
 I cannot thank you enough for sharing this great kite.

Tom
 


Title: Bird of Prey 96 - Observations
Post by: Doug S on September 14, 2015, 10:47 AM
Tom, thank you very much for all of your feedback via text messaging and the summary you shared with us on this forum.

Tom and I independently are using the 5.5 in. long nose weight at 31.3 grams to give us the ideal glide/climb in light winds.  Tom and I both agree that due to the size and mass of this glider kite, you need light wind conditions and smooth and deliberate line inputs.  I equate flying this glider kite to Tom like the touch I use to fly a smooth ballet routine with the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36 indoors, except you are moving more line due to the larger scale of this kite.  The Bird of Prey 96 is not sluggish to line inputs and will response immediately to each command.  In a light breeze, you can play with the line like you are fishing and trying to wear out a hooked fish before you bring them on the boat.  This glider kite does not pull hard, even on the climb.  I find during the glide, I am just using two fingers on each hand to control the changes in line input.  Very Zen like flying.  This is great considering the effective sail area is 2,079 sq. in.

Due to the amount of line we are using to let the Bird of Prey 96 glide and soar, at times we end up with a pile at our feet that we step on or get wrapped up in.  I make this worst by wearing sneakers with long laces.  It makes the Bird of Prey 96 come to some funny sudden stops in the air.  Tom and I are both members of this club, but I win the cartwheel award.  :-[

Tom and I have share short videos between ourselves of each other flying the Bird of Prey 96 with one hand and taking the video with our phone in the other hand.  Let’s just say you need two hands to fly this glider kite due to its size, so the videos are very entertaining and could be sent to America’s Funniest Home Videos.  :D  Next time we are out, we will try to have someone else shot the video while we fly the kite.

Weather permitting, Tom and I will be tinkering with moving the tow point on the bridle slightly to see it that enhances the climb and control, and trying the next size smaller nose weight, which is 5.0 in. long at 28.5 grams.  When I scaled up the Bird of Prey, my goal was to have a larger version of this glider kite that would be able to cover larger flying areas (acre plus size fields) in light to moderate winds.  Based on our testing so far with the two prototypes, it appears we have met this goal.   ;)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 14, 2015, 11:01 AM
i guess i like the big bold colors.....


[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Bird of Prey - Potential New Layout
Post by: Doug S on September 15, 2015, 11:53 AM
John,

I like your suggested layout.  I tinkered with it a little and added an additional panel.  The PC31 colors are yellow, orange, red, wine and plume.  What do you think?

Doug

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 15, 2015, 12:26 PM
needs flo green ;)


Title: Bird of Prey - Potential New Layout
Post by: Doug S on September 17, 2015, 12:20 PM
John,

I tweaked the panel lines a little and like this one better.

Thief,

Do you like the layout?  We can play with different colors that work together.

Doug

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 17, 2015, 12:30 PM
oh, i like the new version...more slim panels and less abruptly swoopy...


:)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on September 17, 2015, 01:39 PM
That looks good

Fun with the colour gradation

Mike


Title: Doug Stout' Patriotic Eagle version of the Bird of Prey 76 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on September 18, 2015, 01:54 PM
I cut out all of the panels for the Patriotic Eagle version of the Bird of Prey 76.  Couldn't have done this so fast and clean without the great aluminum templates from Tom White.  I used a fine circuit board soldering iron tip to hot cut this one out.  The following is a picture showing all of the panels on the specifications drawing, except for the additional details for the area of the eyes.  I have these additional details cut out and they look really cool!   The specifications drawing is four large sheets a paper taped together.  Now for the fun part of gluing and sewing this glider kite together.  This one is going to take a while with all of those stars.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdnNUa1U1bWlKUVE)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 18, 2015, 03:24 PM
Down wind feather tips are going to be free and not sewn down right? Fun little funky accent!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 - In Process
Post by: Doug S on September 18, 2015, 07:41 PM
Rob,

You should know by now the old engineer has a solution for these simulated feathers.  The are only on the front of the sail, with the overlap towards the tail and direction of air moving over the sail.  That's why near the nose the overlap of the white on the blue looks grey, and provides a neat co!or effect.  Near the tail, the blue overlaps the white.  The stitching will be in the middle of the 3/16 in. band at the top of the overlap for each seam. The simulated feathers will be glued down and behave themselves just fine.  The effort will be gluing and stitching each of the 13 stars.

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout' Patriotic Eagle version of the Bird of Prey 76 - In Process
Post by: dragonfish on September 18, 2015, 08:51 PM
([url]http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdnNUa1U1bWlKUVE[/url])


Wow!  :o That's going to look awesome in the sky. 


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: chilese on September 18, 2015, 09:52 PM
Doug,

Love the Patriotic Eagle.

Then you had to go and add a panel to my layout.

So I had to add another panel. I reduced the curvature

of the panels by making a separate wingtip panel. To me,

it looks a little nicer than my original. That's what nice about

playing before cutting.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on September 19, 2015, 11:08 AM
Rob,

You should know by now the old engineer has a solution for these simulated feathers.  The are only on the front of the sail, with the overlap towards the tail and direction of air moving over the sail.  That's why near the nose the overlap of the white on the blue looks grey, and provides a neat co!or effect.  Near the tail, the blue overlaps the white.  The stitching will be in the middle of the 3/16 in. band at the top of the overlap for each seam. The simulated feathers will be glued down and behave themselves just fine.  The effort will be gluing and stitching each of the 13 stars.

Doug

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0lH09x-e1p4/T0Qq3z1qyrI/AAAAAAAAWLg/bLSKPk3xBK0/s720-Ic42/P2210022.JPG)
I was hoping for a little freeform motion!
On my Sainz hata the white feathers are hot cut and free to flap over the main skin...they provide a little motion, but not too much...

cannot wait to see how that turns out Doug!


Title: Mountain Top, PA Kite Festival and My Adventure with the Bird of Prey 96
Post by: Doug S on September 27, 2015, 10:49 AM
Yesterday, Saturday September 26, 2015, the Pocono Kite Symphony ran their third Annual Mountain Top Kite Festival at Harry Benning Park, in Mountain Top, PA, from 10 am to 4 pm.  It was a great event for the kids and 157 sled kites were built and flown throughout the day.  It was great to see so many families enjoy kiting, most of them for the first time.

Flying Area

The flying area for the event was in a field about 300 feet wide (east to west) and 400 feet deep (north to south), on a flat plateau part way up a hillside that increased in elevation to the west.  The flying area was surrounded by an established row of trees on two sides (south and west), where one side (west) was on the uphill portion of the hillside.  There also was a partial tree line to the east that ran from the south and ended midway to the north and numerous trees to the north and east of the field.  NOAA indicated the wind would be out of the east at 7 to 8 mph.  That's nice, but in reality, the wind was very light and changing in direction due to local thermal generation.  Fortunately, the wind was coming up the hillside towards the established row of trees.  The field was section off in half so the upwind side (east) could be used for the newly constructed sled kites.  The downwind side (west) was for others to use such as myself, at 150 feet in the direction of the wind and 400 feet along the hillside.  By the end of the day, many of the kids and parents were using both sides of the field.  The wind below the tree line was 0-2 mph, which made it difficult for most of the newly built sleds to fly unless the kids ran.  The parents didn't mind because that kept them very occupied and gave the parents a break. :D

Ramblings of my Adventure with the Bird of Prey 96

After helping the PKS members setup for the event, I had some long awaited quality airtime with the Bird of Prey 96 that started at 9:30 am.  Tom White and I have been discussing using slightly less nose weight to allow for a more gradual transition from climb to glide.  I reduced the nose weigh to 5 in. in length and used my 250 ft. spool of 50 lb. spectra line.  The light frame (P90s/Zero Airs) was in the Bird of Prey 96.

The Bird of Prey 96 now performs as desired for this typical northeast inland field and wind conditions, and is now my go to glider kite for large outdoor flying area.  I could work a glide to the downwind edge of the field, turn and climb to a height above the upwind tree line to catch the clean air, and most of the time spool out my entire 250 ft. of flying line.  In the process of playing below the tree line, I was flying up to 100 ft. across the 0-2 mph wind to my left and right.  Please note there were many no wind areas on this field.  At height, the Bird of Prey 96 move like a real bird, with the changes in the wind currents due to thermal activity.  If the air was clean and steady, the Bird of Prey 96 parked like a well-behaved single line kite.  After a thermal left the area and was replaced by the sinking air, I would quickly bring the Bird of Prey 96 over my head then glide upwind, sometimes to a surprising distance of up to 100 feet, and glide over various areas of the field at tree top height looking for lift.  If no lift was found, I was back on the deck below the tree line gliding and waiting for the next thermal to build.  If a thermal was building on the field (no wind and an increase in air temperature), the Bird of Prey 96 during a glide would on occasion increase in elevation with no tension on the flying line.  Just another of those mouth open moments for the day where you go “that was cool!”  ;)  There were a few times the Bird of Prey 96 just happened to be directly over my head above 20 feet and circling in the building thermal.  Another mouth open moment.  :)

Right before noon, the wind associated with the thermal activity above the tree line picked up.  Now it wouldn’t be right if I didn’t share some of the stupid things we can do while kiting.  Due to the increasing strength of the thermal activity, I brought the Bird of Prey 96 down quickly with my flying line in a pile by my feet.  I was concerned about breaking the Zero Airs and the associated light joiners I used.  The Bird of Prey 96 was back on the ground and kids were starting to invade my side of the field.  I made the mistake of reeling in the line from the bottom of the pile.  I now have a large looped mess of line to work through.  It was my therapy during breaks, but it will take several more nights to undo my mess.  No use in being stupid unless you show it.  :D

In the afternoon I change out the frame to the heavier one (P100s/2PTs) and used my 250 ft. of 75 lb. spectra line since I trashed my 50 lb.  The 75 lb. was a better choice anyway due to the stronger winds up top.  The same 5 in. in length nose weight was used.  The additional total weight of the kite due to the heavier frame increased its glide speed and allowed the Bird of Prey 96 to penetrate the turbulent air better, but more finesse was needed to work the 0-2 mph wind and lift on the deck, which was quite fun to do.

Throughout most of the day, my flights were lasting approximately 45 minutes, and on many occasions, I brought the Bird of Prey 96 down to take a break.  A few of the other single line flyers that attended the Festival attempted to fly during the day, and most of the time they had a brief moment of success, but could not get into the clean air above the tree line.

In summary, I finally gave the Bird of Prey 96 a chance to fly in the conditions it was designed for and it’s a thermal hunter.  With this glider kite, I can take advantage of conditions that would leave most other kites on the ground.  Please note that when I fly glider kites of this size, I don't stand in one place and tend to move as needed over an area of about 30 feet.  The Bird of Prey 96 fits my style of flying, but on a larger scale than when I fly indoors.  After quitting for the day at 4 pm, I had a great cardiovascular workout, an incredible amount of quality airtime and a lot of open mouth happy moments.

During the day, I was texting Tom White with my observations.  It was my turn to have good conditions, while his area of California is suffering with high heat.  In the near future, I hope he experiences the same observations with his twin to my Bird of Prey 96, when he can back out.  If he does, we will then determine a path forward to make this version of the Bird of Prey available to others in some capacity. ;D

In closing, when I first finished the Bird of Prey 96, we weren’t getting along too well.  With upgrades to joiner and testing various nose weights, that all changed yesterday and we now have a mutual respect for each other.  This type of glider kite flying is like what I equate to flying indoors to music.  You get in tune with the kite so you work together as one to take advantage of the conditions.

I hope you enjoyed my ramblings.  Way too much fun for one person to have with a 96 in. glider kite. ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Update (September 28, 2015)

There were two photographers in the morning at the Festival and I hope to obtain some of the pictures of the Bird of Prey 96 being put through its paces and post them here.  Also, I cleared out my flying line knotted ball last night without cutting the line.  Very therapeutic.  :D


Title: Bird of Prey 96 at Mountain Top Kite Festival
Post by: Doug S on October 01, 2015, 03:46 PM
The following is a picture of me having fun in the morning with the Bird of Prey 96.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNUZScWp3d3plbkU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's BOP 96
Post by: twhite510 on October 07, 2015, 04:39 PM

So I was able to take the BOP 96 out this weekend. This is the second time I have had it out now.
 My impressions of it keep getting better each outing. This thing is a blast to fly. I had winds of 2-3 mph so I used the light frame with the 5" nose weight. Last time out I used the same frame but had the 5-1/2 ' in.
 I launch it by simply letting out some line then launch like a standard SL. Then simply walking backwards while keeping tension on the line while simultaneously letting the line out it climbs at at least at 45 deg. When i got 40 to 50 feet of line out I released my hand tension to let the wind take the kite and turned with the wind. Once it turned and started down wind this thing had a great glide. I was able to let out an easy 50 foot of additional line. Then I very gently started to apply pressure on the line to get it to turn.
 Once it turned all I had to do was start walking backwards and pulling the line with slowly, it took right up again.
I was doing this for for a bit then I noticed that there were some slight thermals coming off the field. I was able to maneuver over to them and the kite just wanted to take off.
 I got a great workout running round the field for 2 hours. Would have been longer but I got the line all tangled up so I had to stop.
 I am just getting used to the bird right now but I find that with some leg work and hand work you can get it to go almost anywhere you want.
 
Love the kite Doug

Tom


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on October 08, 2015, 08:30 PM
Sounds like your getting the big bird diaper in and having fun!

Mike


Title: Bird of Prey 96 and 36
Post by: Doug S on October 09, 2015, 01:16 PM
 Yup, the 96 is dialed in and we are have a blast flying the beast!    ;)

Flying tonight at the LBI Festival Indoor Venue.  Going to give the ultra-light Bird of Prey 36s a workout.  Using my multi-color version for my demo.   ;D

Doug


Title: LBI FLY International Kite Festival - October 9-12, 2015 (Fixed & New Links)
Post by: Doug S on October 14, 2015, 09:40 AM
I had the real pleasure of attending the LBI FLY International Kite Festival over the Columbus Day weekend.  Thank you Lisa Willoughby and your team for this great Festival and may this continue into the future.  The following provides the Facebook link with many pictures and videos from the Festival:  https://www.facebook.com/LBIFLY/timeline?ref=page_internal (https://www.facebook.com/LBIFLY/timeline?ref=page_internal)

In support of Lisa Willoughby's outreach to the local elementary schools, Lisa, Ian (her son), Glenn Davison and I performed an indoor demonstration at the Beach Haven Elementary School on Friday afternoon.  The students and teachers were very excited and amazed at what you can do with kites in a gym.  Later that day, flew indoor at the LBI Grade School will my kiting friends using my Bird of Prey 36M.  Great indoor venue and we were laying bets on who would accidently fly their indoor kite through the speaker wire hanging from an overhead steel beam.  No takers, but quite a few near misses.

Returned to the Festival on Sunday and hung out with Donna and Fred Taylor at their great ground display area.  The wind was light enough in the morning for me to play with my Bird of Prey 96.  As the wind picked up, switched to the heavier frame and a little more nose weight.  Took a break when the wind went above 10 mph.  I was initiated by Mike Dallmer Jr. and Sr., with an interior view of their 27 foot yellow Duck, or as they call it, I got "Ducked."  Incredible engineering and workmanship.  Great Festival and made a lot of new friends.  Best day of kiting I have had in a long time.

The following is a picture of my Bird of Prey 96 out on 250 foot of flying line (the very small kite above my right shoulder), in front of Donna and Fred Taylor's great ground display at the great LBI FLY International Kite Festival. I inserted a larger picture of this kite in the upper left. Fred Taylor, thank you taking this picture.  I have added a folder to my Google Drive with some pictures from this kite Festival and pictures from other kite Festivals that Tom White and I have attended this past year:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSlVhaVJyVi1fOW8&usp=sharing. (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSlVhaVJyVi1fOW8&usp=sharing.)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVEZ4cTBVYVVwaW8)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 96 - Construction Plans and Pictures (Update)
Post by: Doug S on October 27, 2015, 05:06 PM
I have completed my R&D on the Bird of Prey 96 and I am pleased with what this large glider kite can do in winds ranging from 2 to 10 mph.  This majestic glider kite is intended to be flown on larger fields, such as a soccer field, where it can be allowed to run.  One of the joys I have had flying my prototype is chasing thermals under light wind conditions.  This is now my go to glider kite for Kite Festivals, where the winds are less than 10 mph.

The Bird of Prey 96 has a wing span of 96 in. with a project sail area of 2,079 sq.in.  The Light Frame version (Skyshark P90s/Zero Airs) weighs 155 grams, which includes the 5 in. length of nose weight (28.5 grams).  With the Heavy Frame (Skyshark P100s/2PTs) and the same nose weight, the total kite weight increases to 172.2 grams.  The sail loading is 0.0745 grams/sq.in. for the Light Frame version and 0.0828 grams/sq.in. for the Heavy Frame version.  With the 5 in. length of nose weight, the center of gravity is just in front of the neutral point.  Based on my experience, I prefer the Light Frame and the 5 in. long nose weight for light wind conditions.  When the wind increases above 5 mph, I prefer the Heavy Frame and the 5.5 in. long nose weight.  This combination allows for additional sail loading and moves the center of gravity forward by 0.25 in., both of which increase the glide speed to cut through the wind.  As expected, the Heavy Frame is stiffer, which in turn allows the Bird of Prey 96 to be slightly more responsive.  In the upper wind range, the Bird of Prey 96 is a very stable single line kite that is very happy flying at a high angle in the sky.

Recent refinements to the design include a line to secure each tip batten when one catches a tip on the ground, and enhanced reinforcements for the nose, tail and wing tips.  Tom White and I both now know what not to do with the Bird of Prey 96, specifically aggressive turns low to the ground, which causes a tip to catch the associated batten to go flying.  Very hard to find a 0.04 in. diameter black carbon rod in a grass field.  You will note on one of the pictures that I have added a strip of white tape to each batten, so I can see the batten if it does come loose.  I caught a wing tip a few times flying the Bird of Prey 96 at the LBI FLY International Kite Festival sandy beach and the battens remained in place with no problems.

The construction plans represent the multi-panel/color version that Tom and I are flying, which are now posted on my Google Drive.  There are two sheets of full size plans (Sheets 1 of 2 and Sheet 2 of 2) for the numerous templates, along with a single half scale plan that indicates the completed layout and specifications.  The reason for the half scale is that the full scale version of the specifications is 8 Sheets in size.  Please note that this version of the Bird of Prey uses a Plain Seem with straight stitching to join the panels.  On my other PC31 versions of the Bird of Prey, I use a Lap Seam with straight or zigzag stitching.  The template sheets also include the specifications for various nose weights (4.5, 5, 5.5 and 6 in. in length), so one can adjust the glide to their liking.  The specifications plan includes the measurements for the two frames (Light:  P90s/Zero Airs and Heavy:  P100s/2PTs).  Photographs taken during the construction of Tom White's and mine also are posted on my Google Drive.  Please note that Tom White and I designed Delrin Joiners that were machined by Tom, which joiner design evolved through our flying and is key to the successful performance of this glider kite.  As indicated on the specification plans, the machined Delrin Joiner has a different forward angle for the Light Frame and Heavy Frame, due to the flexibility of each frame.

The following provides the link to the plans folder on my Google Drive:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing)

I also reorganized my Google Drive so the plans and construction pictures for each Bird of Prey size/material are in their own folder.  As indicated in my prior posts that provide the plans for other versions of the Bird of Prey, please provide a donation to this fine forum if you choose to download any of my Bird of Prey plans.  Thank you.

If you should have any questions, just send me a note and I will be pleased to respond.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNUZScWp3d3plbkU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Lex B on October 30, 2015, 11:38 AM
WOW 31 pages of great reading.
Surely made me interested in gliders,
'L see what I have in stock, to make the cannard or the BOP.
keep up the good work.

 ;) Lex


Title: Doug Stout's Glider Kites
Post by: Doug S on October 30, 2015, 04:40 PM
Lex,

Thank you for the kind words.  It's been a labor of love.  My suggestion would be to build one of my Bird of Prey (BOP) glider kites.  They are easy to fly and have light line tension.  For your information, the Rapere Canards have a narrow wind window, due the large sail area and span of the front wing.  The goal of the Rapere Canards was to use as much sail area as possible to reduce the sail loading.  I was successful in that goal, but in aerodynamics, there are always trade offs.  I have an X-29 Canard to build, which has a short span front wing and swept forward rear wings.  The templates have been cut out for quite sometime.  Hope to build it this winter as a break from the BOPs.  The BOPs are my favorite glider kite to build and fly!

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36
Post by: Doug S on November 06, 2015, 05:01 PM
I recently received an very pleasant email from Rich Cairncross.  Rich and I meet at the Friday Night Indoor Demonstration that was part of the LBI FLY International Kite Festival.  Rich downloaded the plans and built one of ultra-light Bird of Prey (BOP) 36.  Rich indicated he is "super happy" with his build.  The following provides a picture Rich sent me of his BOP 36 in the air.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM2tfRjhGeWFQM0E)

To replenish my stock of ultra-light 0.34 Cuben fabric, I purchased from ZPacks the new white that is their replacement for the orange they previously stocked.  Based on my measurements, the white has about the same sail density as the orange, with a density in the low 0.4 oz./sq.yd.  I also purchased the 1.0 black and the 1.43 white to add more variety to my Cuben fabric inventory.  Due to the light nature of the black, it looks more like PC-31 charcoal, which is perfect for my needs.  Based on my measurements the 1.0 black has a density of 1.01 oz./sq.yd., while the 1.43 white has a density of 1.62 oz./sq.yd.

To test out the durability of the new 0.34 white Cuben fabric, I am going to build another BOP 36M for me, which is comprised of multi-color/density Cuben fabric.  I will use the 1.0 black for the nose, my existing 0.8 blue for the center, and the new 0.34 white for the balance of the sail (tail and wings).  The following picture shows the color layout of the new BOP 36M next to a single color orange BOP 36 that are both under construction.  I also cut out a nose from the 1.34 white that is to the right of the BOP 36M nose.  I am going to use the 1.0 black instead of the 1.34 white because Tom and I think it looks better.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFc0RvNUdjOVZBbXM)

Based on my testing of the new 0.34 Cuben fabric, I am thinking of building another ultra-light BOP 48, but with multiple panels, since I now have the various densities of Cuben fabric to play with, and it will help me offset the nose weight I needed in the single color/panel version.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 36M (New Cuben Fabric Colors)-100th Single Line Built
Post by: Doug S on November 14, 2015, 09:07 AM
The following picture is of my new Bird of Prey 36M build with two newly acquired Cuben fabrics.  The nose is 1.0 black that looks charcoal in color, the center is 0.8 blue and the panel for the wings and tail is the new 0.34 white (clear).  Very pleased with how this one came out.  This Bird of Prey 36M needed 2 inches of tubing to achieve the desired center of gravity (balance point) and weighs 8.2 grams.  The slightly higher density of the new 0.34 white and the lighter Cuben fabric for the nose (1.0 black) required the 2 inch length of nose weight, which in turn slightly increased the weight of this glider kite, when compared to my prior version at 7.6 grams.  I have another Bird of Prey 36M in process with the newly acquired 1.34 white for the nose, which I hope will reduce the amount of nose weight needed to achieved the desired center of gravity (balance point).

The new 0.34 white (clear) is the replacement for the old 0.34 orange, which I recently purchased from ZPacks.  Based on my use of this material so far, it appears to be a good replacement for the old orange, and more durable than the old white (clear).  The 1.0 black and 1.34 white also were recently purchased from ZPacks.

What I have learned in my recent builds using the 0.34 Cuben fabric is that I have measured the densities at 0.37, 0.42, 0.43 and 0.48 oz./sq.yd.  It's my opinion the variations in density are due minor variations in each production run and where the material is cut from in the roll for production run.  The new 0.34 white was measured at 0.43 oz./sq.yd. as compared to the old orange at 0.37 oz./sq.yd.  The several rolls of the end-of-roll orange I acquired not too long ago were measured at 0.42 and 0.48 oz./sq.yd.  For the Bird of Prey 36s, I have not observed any noticeable differences in flight performance other than a slight change in glide speed.  Also, the slightly higher density Cuben fabric is slightly stiffer.

So for those of you who are using Cuben fabric, it's my recommendation that you measure the center of gravity (balance point) for each of your builds, then adjust your nose weight to achieve the desired center of gravity (balance point).  On my single panel/color Bird of Prey 36s, I have used lengths of tubing for nose weight, ranging from 1 to 3 inches to achieve the desired center of gravity (balance point).  On my plans, the nose weigh type and length is based on my building experience.  What matters is that you achieve the center of gravity (balance point) indicated on the plans by adjusting the length of the nose weight.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

P.S.  This Bird of Prey 36M marks the 100th single line kite I have made, since beginning my adventure in August 2010 with building my own single line kites.  93 were glider kites, where 58 of the glider kites were Bird of Prey glider kites.  7 of the single line kites were fighter kites.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOVlXYzdTTGhWYmM)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey Glider Kites - Note added to Specification Plans
Post by: Doug S on November 18, 2015, 06:06 AM
For those of you who are thinking of building a Bird of Prey or are using the provided information to develop your own glider kite, I have updated the specification plans for each size/version to include the following note:

Important Performance Note

The indicated nose weight is based on the construction materials and techniques used to build this glider kite.  The density for some of the construction materials can vary for each build.  What is important is to achieve the indicated Center of Gravity (CG) location or balance point.  Start with the indicated nose weight and measure the CG location by balancing the glider kite on the tip of your index finger, with the face of the sail pointing up and center spine horizontal to the ground.  As necessary, adjust the length of the nose weight to achieve the indicated CG.  The performance goal is to have a long flat glide.  One can experiment with the CG location to fine tune the glide.

The above text was added based on my personal experiences in building glider kites since 2010 and recent experience with the variations in ultra-light Cuben fabric, which fabric provides incredible glider kite performance due to its low density.  The above steps are performed as part of my normal building and flight trimming process, where I test fly between adjustments.  In previous posts, you may have seen me use the phrase "dialed in", which I use to indicate the desired flat glide and other performance characteristics have been achieved.

The following provides the link to the plans folder on my Google Drive:  https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Happy Holidays - Bird of Prey 18
Post by: Doug S on December 22, 2015, 05:43 AM
I just wish to take this opportunity to wish everyone a very safe and happy holidays.  Since Thanksgiving, have been spending quality time with the family and preparing our home for the Christmas Holiday.  This year we are fortunate to have all of my children and their significant others under one roof.  We are blessed.  ;D

I wish to thank you for all of your support in my kiting efforts over the past year, which have allowed me to develop and refine other versions of the Bird of Prey, and make many new friends at the various kite festivals that I was able to attend.

Currently, the Elves are busy in my workshop, building Bird of Prey glider kites for those who have been good this year.  The Elves tell me there may be a new Bird of Prey with an 18 wing span for us to try out in the near future, using Cuben fabric and CST DPP 0.028 carbon tubes.  This may be the small room indoor kite we have been waiting for.  Will provide an update when the Elves let me back in the workshop.  :D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on December 22, 2015, 10:37 AM
All the Best to you and your family for the festive season

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on December 22, 2015, 02:37 PM
Merry Christmas Doug  :)


Title: Bird of Prey 18 - Little Glider Kite for a Great Cause
Post by: Doug S on December 26, 2015, 09:22 AM
Kiting is about the people and it has been my pleasure to develop glider kites for the needs of our kiting family.  Recently I was contacted by Phil Burks who was very kind and ordered two Bird of Prey 36Ms and a Bird of Prey 48.  Phil also indicated he was interested in a smaller version the Bird of Prey that he could fly in a small area.  Phil indicated he is recovering from a traumatic brain injury that occurred 2-1/2 years ago and indoor kite flying is helping him with his recovery process.  Phil has been flying indoors in a small area at his Brain Injury Recovery Center, which has become popular with the other patients and staff.

To assist in developing a smaller version of the Bird of Prey for Phil, I used a simple mathematical relationship that I developed, which allows me to use the cross sectional area of a carbon tube or rod to estimate the sail area and wing span of a Bird of Prey.  The relationship is based on the CST frames that have worked the best for the Bird of Prey glider kites with wing spans of 24, 36, 48 and 62 inches.  This mathematical relationship was used to evaluate the two frame sets (light and heavy) for the Bird of Prey 96, which frame sets worked out perfectly for light and moderate wind conditions.

Based on this relationship, it was determined that my little Bird of Prey 12 with the CST DPP 0.02 in. OD carbon rods was a little too stiff.  The appropriate wing span would have been 14 inches.  This stiffness of this frame along with the stiffness of the ultra-light Cuben fabric does not allow this Bird of Prey to fly as well as its larger brothers.  I am not giving up on this very small version of the Bird of Prey, but I need to find a different ultra-light sail material that is durable, but not as stiff as the Cuben fabric.

With the great success that I have had with the CST DPP carbon tubes, I was looking for the sail area and the associated wing span of a Bird of Prey that would be best suited for the smallest of the CST DPP carbon tubes, with an OD of 0.028 in.  Based on the mathematical relationship, a Bird of Prey 18, with a wing span of 18 inches and sail area of 73 sq.in. will be perfect.  In my email exchanges with Phil, it was determined this size should work for his needs, considering the Bird of Prey glider kites are more responsive and have a smaller turning radius than other traditionally shaped glider kites of the same size.  We are both very excited about this new version of the Bird of Prey.

The following chart was updated to reflect my modeling efforts.  The Bird of Prey 18 plans are finished, the materials have been ordered, and I am looking forward to having the prototype in the air and dialed in January 2016, and then to Phil by the end of January 2016.  If the Bird of Prey 18 performs like its bigger brothers, I will be pleased to share the plans on my Google Drive.  The following chart also indicates the frame that I will be using for my Bird of Prey 76, which is the CST DPP 0.157 in. OD carbon tubes.

In closing, thank you Phil for allowing me to assist you and the joy of exploring a small version of the Bird of Prey.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNGZFekhUXzBwaHc)


Title: Bird of Prey Glider Kites - 18, 36M and 48 In Process (Update)
Post by: Doug S on January 08, 2016, 11:37 AM
The attached pictures show some Bird of Prey glider kites that are in process over the holiday break.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 18 - Template and three cutout sails from white and orange Cuben Fabric.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRnBhLVFTdk9lNlU)

Bird of Prey 36M - Two in process made from various color/weight Cuben Fabric.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNTdtbkhyUFdRVTg)

Bird of Prey 36M - Four ready for the hand stitching, then framing.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUzJ2a0M5MjZEZ1k)

Bird of Prey 48 - Made from PC31, all sewn and ready to be framed.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU1pSUWltTTZVN3M)


Title: Bird of Prey 36s and Display Line
Post by: Doug S on January 22, 2016, 12:08 PM
I finished the Bird of Prey builds for Phil Burks and Archie Stewart, and the glider kites are now in the mail to there new homes.  I ran out of room to hang up my Birds of Prey and the new builds in my workshop, so I used a length of braided Dacron and made the display line show below for my Bird of Prey 36s:

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFN05XQVVZdEZtV1k)

The following indicates the version of my Bird of Prey 36 displayed in the picture from top to bottom, as viewed from the back so you can see the various colors:

- Bird of Prey 36 - Original Prototype made with 0.34 White Cuben Fabric
- Bird of Prey 36 - Made with 0.34 Orange Cuben Fabric (Used for the 2015 Contest Season)
- Bird of Prey 36B - Made with 0.8 Blue Cuben Fabric
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.3 Aluminum, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 Orange)
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.0 Black, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 White)
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.43 White, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 White)

The bottom two were built to test out the new 0.34 Cuben White.  With the above, I now have made 64 Birds of Prey, where 45 have been for other kite enthusiasts.  I have 19 for myself.  Now to finish the prototype for the Bird of Prey 18.

Yes I have an illness.  I have too many toys.  :D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 22, 2016, 01:35 PM
I finished the Bird of Prey builds for Phil Burks and Archie Stewart, and the glider kites are now in the mail to there new homes.  I ran out of room to hang up my Birds of Prey and the new builds in my workshop, so I used a length of braided Dacron and made the display line show below for my Bird of Prey 36s:

([url]http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFN05XQVVZdEZtV1k[/url])

The following indicates the version of my Bird of Prey 36 displayed in the picture from top to bottom, as viewed from the back so you can see the various colors:

- Bird of Prey 36 - Original Prototype made with 0.34 White Cuben Fabric
- Bird of Prey 36 - Made with 0.34 Orange Cuben Fabric (Used for the 2015 Contest Season)
- Bird of Prey 36B - Made with 0.8 Blue Cuben Fabric
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.3 Aluminum, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 Orange)
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.0 Black, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 White)
- Bird of Prey 36M - 3 Panels made with Cuben Fabric (1.43 White, 0.8 Blue & 0.34 White)

The bottom two were built to test out the new 0.34 Cuben White.  With the above, I now have made 64 Birds of Prey, where 45 have been for other kite enthusiasts.  I have 19 for myself.  Now to finish the prototype for the Bird of Prey 18.

Yes I have an illness.  I have too many toys.  :D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

I am glad you said it first 😀


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 22, 2016, 02:02 PM
now...i NEVER qualify kites as toys.......


Title: Bird of Prey Glider Kites
Post by: Doug S on January 22, 2016, 03:14 PM
Rob,

Ok, how about this.  "I have a quantity and variety of low sail loading, aerodynamically efficient flying objects made from state of the art materials, which are skillfully controlled through the use of a single tether to perform aerobatic routines choreographed to music within a confined three dimensional environment under still air conditions.  The quantity and variety of the flying objects are necessary to property match the flying object to the mood and tempo of the selected music, in order to obtain the best emotional response from the viewing audience."  :D

To our non-kiting spouses, they are still "Toys."  ;D

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on January 22, 2016, 04:54 PM
Jeez... Engineers.....

:P


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 18
Post by: Doug S on January 23, 2016, 07:39 PM
As the result of the large snowstorm we had today (19 inches measured), I was able to finish building the Bird of Prey 18.  Test flew this little gem in my Family Room on several occasions today, and it's a keeper.  It weighs only 1.3 grams, with a sail loading of only 0.09 oz./sq.ft. of projected sail area.  This is the lowest sail loading in the Bird of Prey family, 14.4 percent lower than the next lightest Bird of Prey, which is the Bird of Prey 24.  Some of the weight savings was by eliminating the battens, which are not needed due to the design layout and stiffness of the 0.34 Cuben Fabric.  This little gem has a wing span of 18 inches and projected sail area of 73 square inches.  I used the CST DPP 0.028 inch OD carbon tubes for the center spine and the wing spars.

The Bird of Prey 18 is flown on 10 to 15 feet of 5 lb. spectra line.  For storage, this little gem needs to be stored flat.  If it's rolled up, a curl will be added to the Cuben Fabric at the wing tips that will impact the performance, since there are no battens.  I will finalize and post the link to the plans next week.

I will revisit the Bird of Prey 12 and build one in the same manor.

Bird of Prey 18 - Side View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU2JsNjlIWVBudUU)

Bird of Prey 18 - Line View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMmNELXA1SjNoWjA)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 18 - Plans
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2016, 05:49 PM
The following provides the link to access the plans for the Bird of Prey 18.  I will take some pictures of this glider kite and post them in a few days on my Google Drive that also can be accessed using the following link.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWjYxNWtrWHpMTjQ&usp=sharing

I also updated the plans for the various versions of the Bird of Prey 36, indicating the different color and weights that I have used to date.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 18 - Pictures
Post by: Doug S on January 26, 2016, 06:32 AM
The following pictures are now available on my Google Drive, using the following link:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWjYxNWtrWHpMTjQ&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWjYxNWtrWHpMTjQ&usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Bird of Prey 18 - Line View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFS3BVaU82UXZTbDQ)

Bird of Prey 18 - Side View (Updated Nose Configuration with Red, White and Blue PC-31 Reinforcements)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUE0zVkpNSG9XcGs)

Bird of Prey 18 - Rear View (Updated Nose Configuration with Red, White and Blue PC-31 Reinforcements)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQXRGYmNBYUYxaWc)

Bird of Prey 18 - Nose View (Updated Nose Configuration)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM2pMYjFLalY3eWc)

Bird of Prey 18 - Center View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSVpxOWZWdU5kVUU)

Bird of Prey 18 - Tail View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNVdHU3haZzM2bms)

Bird of Prey 18 - Right Tip View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRWFBMVpYT3ZkSnM)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 18 - Revised Plans for Center of Gravity
Post by: Doug S on January 26, 2016, 04:35 PM
I adjusted with the location for the Center of Gravity (balance point).   Using the full 5/8 in. End Cap and when this glider kite was about 5 feet away from me, the 5 lb. spectra flying line was acting as expected like additional nose weight, making the glide steeper and faster than desired.  When I trimmed 1/8 in. off of the open end of the End Cap, I would need to keep constant tension on the flying line, otherwise this glider kite would just stall and recover and stall again.  The weight of the flying line was not enough to over come this tail heavy condition and I was restricted to fly less than 5 feet from me.

The sweet spot was when I trimmed only 1/16 in. off of the open end of the End Cap, and now the glide is flat and slow for flying in small rooms.  In my home, the Bird of Prey 18 took the entire 10 feet of 5 lb. spectra flying line out of my hands and kept gliding nice and slow.  I need to make up a longer length of flying line (about 20 feet), and see what this little gem can carry.  The plans have been updated on my Google Drive to indicate the revised location for the Center of Gravity (balance point), which is now 4 1/4 in. from the nose.  Due to the very light weight of this glider kite at 1.3 grams, the weight and drag of the flying line has more influence on the glide than the larger versions of this glider kite series.

If you should choose to build one of these little gems, the key to this series of glider kites is to not be afraid to tinker with the location of the Center of Gravity (balance point) to achieve the desired glide.  Personal preferences in building techniques and variations in material densities can alter the initial balance point.  That is why my plans suggest you determine the initial balance point, adjust as necessary to achieve the indicated location on the plans and then begin the process of tuning the glider kite for the desired glide.  Enjoy.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 18s
Post by: Doug S on January 31, 2016, 10:54 AM
The following picture shows three completed Bird of Prey 18s.  The top one and middle one are made from the new white/grey 0.34 Cuben Fabric.  The bottom one is made from orange Cuben Fabric.  They each weigh 1.3 grams.

The top one is the prototype and is mine to play with.  The middle one is for Tom White who made me the great aluminum template to cut out the sail material.  His will be in the mail to him tomorrow, so he can drive his wife crazy like I do flying it in his home.  The bottom one is for Phil Burks, who inspired me to develop this size of the Bird of Prey.  His is on its way to meet him when he arrives in South Padre Island, Texas.

I will build another one for me, but use Dacron 4.0 oz. for the nose reinforcement instead of the PC-31.  This will allow me to use a smaller size end cap.  The total weight and balance point should remain the same, but we will see when it is done.  Just me tinkering.  If I like this modification, I will update the plans.

Yours in kiting,

Doug
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUllVTFlxN1o3YmM)


Title: Bird of Prey 18 - Tom White's in Flight
Post by: Doug S on February 05, 2016, 06:40 AM
The Bird of Prey 18 glider kites for Tom White and Phil Burks have reached their new happy homes.  The following is one of the pictures that Tom White sent me, with him having fun with his new little glider kite.  Both of us feel this little gem performs just like a smaller version of the Bird of Prey 36.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFV0dwaDBBNkc3Qms)


Title: Revisions to Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 18
Post by: Doug S on February 12, 2016, 01:59 PM
I built a second Bird of Prey 18 for myself using white Cuben 0.34.  Considering that Presidents Day was coming up, the Bird of Prey 18 uses PC-31 for the reinforcements and I am a fan of patriotic kites, I used red for the right wing tip, white for the tail and blue for the left wing tip.  I also used black PC-31 for the front of the nose, and black Dacron for the back of the nose.  The Dacron was used on the back of the nose, so that when the nose end cap is tied with some minor tension, the Dacron does not give under tension like the PC-31.

With this slight increase in nose weight by using the Dacron, I reduced the nose end cap to a 1/16 in. ID by 11/16 in. long.  To obtain the desired glide, I added a 0.08 in. ID by 3/8 in. end cap over top.  This change makes it easier to dial in the glide, because it's easier to slide on and off different lengths of the 0.08 in. OD end cap.

Due to the ultra-light nature of the CST DPP 0.028 OD Carbon Tubes, I also glued 1/4 in. length of 0.01 in. OD Carbon Rod into the ends of each carbon tube (Center Spine, and 2 Wing Spars).  This is to prevent accidental crushing of the tubes at the ends.  The existing plans indicate this reinforcement for just the inner ends of the Wing Spars, where there is a high potential to crush the carbon tubes when being inserted into the joiner.  Been there and done that. :(

Total weight for this version of the Bird of Prey 18 is the same as the prototype at 1.3 grams and it flys great. ;D

Tom White and I have found that the Bird of Prey 18 will carry up to 20 feet of 5 lb. spectra line.  As you use more flying line during the glide, the flying line acts like additional nose weight, especially for an ultra-light weight glider kite like the Bird of Prey 18.  Based on this, the glide for the Bird of Prey 18 was set to be very slow, with just a slight hint of a stall.  Once 5 feet of flying line is out, the glide is nice and flat.  This little gem is a blast to fly with 5 to 15 feet of flying line out in the air.

The plans have been revised and posted on my Google Drive to indicate the additional inner carbon tube reinforcements, the new PC-31/Dacron nose reinforcement and end cap configuration.  Enjoy.   ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 18 - Side View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUE0zVkpNSG9XcGs)

Bird of Prey 18 - Back View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQXRGYmNBYUYxaWc)


Title: Bird of Prey 18 vs. Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on February 13, 2016, 02:53 PM
Today I build a Bird of Prey 12 with white 0.34 Cuben fabric, using the same reinforcement techniques as the Bird of Prey 18.  The updated version of the Bird of Prey 12 does not use battens at the wing tips, just like the Bird of Prey 18.  The updated version is easier and faster to build, and the sail is cleaner without the battens.  I was hoping for a weight reduction, but that was not the case.  The original and the updated versions of the Bird of Prey 12 both weigh 0.7 grams, with a sail loading of 0.11 oz./sq.ft.

On a performance basis, the updated version is a little more responsive and turns tighter, because the sail at the wing tips can move without the battens.  Due to the sail loading for this little glider kite with such a smaller average chord, it has a fast glide speed.  This is a hot little glider kite to fly in a small room.

When one compares the Bird of Prey 12 to the Bird of Prey 18, the Bird of Prey 18 is a much better glider kite that has a slower glide speed due to the lower sail loading at 0.09 oz./sq.ft. and larger average chord.  The Bird of Prey 18 sail loading is 21% lower than the Bird of Prey 12.  As a point of comparison, the Bird of Prey 12 has a project sail area of only 32 sq.in. while the Bird of Prey 18 has a projected sail area of 73 sq.in.  As a point of reference, an iFlite has a projected sail area of 125 sq.in. with a wing span of 20.5 in., which is similar to the Bird of Prey 24 with a projected sail area of 130 sq.in.

In summary, if you are looking to build a Bird of Prey to fly in a small indoor area, the Bird of Prey 18 would be my suggested choice.  I fly my Bird of Prey 18 in my Family Room / Kitchen Open Area.  I also have done some nice gliding turns around the hanging light above our kitchen table, when my wife is in the other part of our home. :D  The Bird of Prey 18 flys and responses like its bigger brother, the Bird of Prey 36, which I use for indoor competition.  If you are looking for a small Bird of Prey to challenge your flying skills, the Bird of Prey 12 will do just that!   :D

I will revise the Bird of Prey 12 plans to reflect the updates, which makes this an easier and faster glider kite to build, like the Bird of Prey 18.  The following provide pictures of the original and updated versions of the Bird of Prey 12, where the original version used orange 0.34 Cuben fabric and has black reinforcements, while the updated version used white 0.34 Cuben fabric and has red, white and blue PC-31 reinforcements on the wing tips and tail.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 12s - Side View
Foreground:  Updated Version, Background:  Original Version

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbnB5SVJRdEZIVkE)

Bird of Prey 12s - Back View
Top:  Updated Version, Bottom:  Original Version

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYkYyMHJZTDN2aEk)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on February 13, 2016, 03:25 PM
So, should I pull out the battens on my 12?
Very interesting.... Do the wingtips have the same shape between versions?


Title: Bird of Prey 12
Post by: Doug S on February 13, 2016, 03:57 PM
Rob,

The shape of each Bird of Prey is the same, which shape is scaled to obtain the desired wing span.  Due to the stiffness of the 0.34 Cuben fabric, battens are not necessary for the 12 and 18 inch wing span versions of the Bird of Prey.  I learned and provided this with the Bird of Prey 18, where the tip chord (width) is about 2 inches.  The Bird of Prey 12 only has a tip chord (width) of about 1 1/4 inches.  I will build a Bird of Prey 24 next without battens and see how it does, but most likely I will need to add battens due to the increased chord (width) of about 2.5 inches at the wing tip.

Please note that the battens used on the Bird of Prey glider kites with wing spans of 24 inches and greater allow the wing tips to move up (washout) with an increase sail loading, because the inner portion of the battens are parallel with the wing spars.  Unfortunately for the Bird of Prey 12, the stiffness of 0.34 Cuben fabric and the smallest diameter of carbon rods we can obtain at 0.01 in. OD are just too stiff to allow the wing tips to move under sail load.  The updated version of the Bird of Prey 12 is a little better without the battens, as described in my prior post.

If you wish, you can give remove the battens and give it a try.  I don't know how the weight of the existing batten pockets at wing tip trailing edges will respond during flight.  Please note that without the battens, the Bird of Prey 12 must be stored flat like the Bird of Prey 18.  If you roll the sail, you will end with a curve in opposite directions at the wing tips, which will cause the Bird of Prey 12 to turn in one direction.   That's why I used the battens in the original version of the Bird of Prey 12.

The reason the Bird of Prey 18 is a better glider kite for small rooms is because its size is a perfect match with the stiffness of the 0.34 Cuben fabric, because the wing tips can move under sail load but are not too wide at about 2 inches to required battens, and a perfect match to the smallest hollow carbon tubes available from CST (0.028 in. OD DPP Carbon Tubes), lowing the total weight of this glider kite.  These two benefits and using minimal sail reinforcements allow this glider kite to have the lowest sail loading and slowest glide speed of the Bird of Prey glider kites.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Kite Mania North "Windless" Edition 2016 - Presenting Glider Kite Aerodynamics
Post by: Doug S on February 13, 2016, 05:06 PM
It has been a real pleasure sharing my glider kites with individuals who view this Forum.  Your feedback keeps me going to try new concepts and materials.

In keeping with this exchange of ideas, I have been invited to present at Kite Mania North "Windless" Edition 2016.  The event will be held on April 16 & 17, 2016, at the Mother Brook Arts and Community Center, (MBACC), 123 High Street Dedham, MA 02026.  My presentation will be Glider Kite Aerodynamics And Tuning Techniques, followed by a hands-on clinic.

The following provides the details for this event, which can be viewed at the following Facebook Page:  https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=kite%20mania%20north%20windless%20edition%202016 (https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=kite%20mania%20north%20windless%20edition%202016)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

_______________

KITEMANIA NORTH
“WINDLESS” EDITION 2016
 SATURDAY AND SUNDAY
 APRIL 16 & 17, 2016
 Registration 9:00 AM – noon Saturday, 10:00 - 11:00 AM Sunday

We will be meeting at: Mother Brook Arts and Community Center, (MBACC), 123 High Street Dedham, MA 02026.

KITE & GROUND DISPLAY CLINICS,
 INDOOR KITE MAKING CLINICS,
 LEARN TO FLY INDOORS CLINICS,
 SEWING MACHINE TUNING CLINIC,
 GLIDER KITE CLINIC,
 and INDOOR KITE
 COMPETITION

Kite Mania North “Windless Edition” 2016 is a two day retreat for kite fliers featuring Sewing Machine Tune-up, Kite Making, Indoor Kite Flying, Glider Kite Aerodynamics Clinic, ending with an Indoor Kite Competition. Our featured presenters are: International kite makers, Fred and Donna Taylor from Port Colborne, Canada, Normand Girard from Montreal, Canada, Pauly Berard of Woonsocket, RI, and Doug Stout, from Byram Township, NJ, presenting the finer points of glider kite design and tuning. All preceded by a sewing machine “Tune Up” clinic presented by Joe “T” Tricarico of Providence, RI.

Sewing Machine Clinic with Joe “T”, Saturday 11:00 – 1:00PM
 Joe Tricarico, sewing machine “expert” will present “getting the most out of your sewing machine!” Joe “T” is the proprietor of Spirito Sewing Center in Providence, RI. He will assist you in tuning your machine to successfully complete your projects. Thanks Joe for your continued support!www.spiritosewingcenter.com

Make a Ground Display with Fred and Donna Taylor.
 Saturday 12:30 – 5:00PM
 Fred and Donna Taylor are internationally known kite makers will conduct a new ground display project. Each kit cost $10.00 and participants can purchase up to three panels at $10.00 each. The Taylors will supply all materials and will be limited to 15 participants. www.kytcrzy.com (http://www.kytcrzy.com)

OctoKite 24” by Normand Girard. Sunday, 10:00AM – 3:30PM
 Internationally known kite maker, Normand Girard will demonstrate his appliqué technique and present his “OctoKite 24”. Limited to 15 participants and a $35.00 materials fee will be required. Registrants will make their very own design art piece.

Impromptu Mini Kite Session,
 Sunday 10:00AM
 Join nationally know kite maker and indoor champion Pauly Berard, from Woonsocket, RI. Pauly who will conduct this clinic throughout the day by requests.

Glider Kite Clinic, Performance Center,
 Saturday 2:00 – 4:00PM
 Doug Stout, a multiple degreed Engineer and creator of the “Bird of Prey” glider kites, will present an interactive discussion on glider kite aerodynamics and tuning techniques, followed by a hands-on clinic to teach you how to adjust your glider kites to achieve the desired performance.

“Windless” Kite Flying
 Saturday 11:00AM – 6:30PM Sunday 11:00 to 2:00PM
 In the Performance Center, Flyers will have access to fly and rehearse their routines. Please encourage spectators to join in the excitement of windless flight.

SCHEDULE
 SATURDAY - APRIL 16th
 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM
 REGISTRATION
 10:00 AM - 12:00PM
 SEWING MACHINE TUNE UP WITH JOE “T”
11:00 AM – 6:30PM
 GLIDER KITE CLINIC, WITH DOUG STOUT,
 OPEN WINDLESS FLYING IN THE AUDITORIUM
 2:00 PM – 4:00PM
 GROUND DISPLAY
 WORKSHOP WITH DONNA AND FRED TAYLOR Room 7
 5:00PM - 6:30PM
 PIZZA (Donations accepted)
 6:30 – 8:00PM
 WINDLESS DEMOS

SUNDAY - APRIL 17th
 10:00 AM - 11:00 AM REGISTRATION
 10:00AM – 3:30 PM
 NORMAND GIRARD KITE MAKING WORKSHOP Room 7
 11:00AM ‘TIL
 IMPROMPTU KITE MAKING
 WITH PAULY BERARD
 11:00 – 2:00 PM
 OPEN ‘WINDLESS” FLY, LESSONS
 2:00 – 3:30
 INDOOR PRACTICE FOR COMPETITION
 3:30 – 5:00PM
 COMPETITION:
 OPEN INDOOR SINGLE LINE, OPEN INDIVIDUAL INDOOR UNLIMITED



Registration Form

Name ____________________
 Street ____________________
 City/State/Zip _____________
 Tele# ____________________
 ALL PARTICIPANTS MUST SIGN BELOW:
 Waiver: In consideration for the right to participate in any and all of the activities presented byKiteMania “Windless Edition”, I hereby hold the AKA, Promoters, Mother Brook Arts & Community Center, Kites Over New England, KiteMania’s sponsors and promoters, and all other persons associated with this event harmless and release them from any and all liability in connection with my participation. Please note: by signing on behalf of a participant less than 18 years of age, the parent/guardian also expressly agrees to all of the above. I have read this release of liability and understand its meaning.



Signature:

__________________________
 Date: _____________________


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 12 and 18 - Revised Plans
Post by: Doug S on February 15, 2016, 08:56 AM
The following provides the link to access the revised plans for my Bird of Prey 12 and 18.  Enjoy.  If you should have any questions, please send me a note.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_TPx1W-lkmSfmthaVp1aldpNlJaMVN4UDgySzM3ejl6dVVYQ0JuUzBtb2ZlaF92TEZGNm8&usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 24s for Glider Kite Clinic
Post by: Doug S on February 22, 2016, 04:58 PM
For Kite Mania "Windless" Edition 2016, I am building a few glider kites for my clinic to be flown by the attendees.   The following picture shows 2 Bird of Prey 24s that were just finished for the clinic, where I can easily adjust the balance point using short lengths of end cap material, demonstrating a glider kite that is nose heavy, balanced and tail heavy.

In a prior post, Rob and I discussed not needing the battens for the Bird of Prey 12 and 18.  These 2 Bird of Prey 24s were initially constructed without the battens to see if it would work on a larger version of the Bird of Prey.  The total weight was the same as the stock Bird of Prey 24s with battens, at 2.7 grams.

During my test flying, I found that one flew great and the other one not as good.  What I learned is that without the battens and a tip chord of about 2.5 inches, the wing tip reinforcements rotate during flight, when the sail material at the wing tips moved.  Sometimes this leaves the wing tip reinforcements at some interesting angles, acting like leading edge ailerons.  The version that did not fly as good had a curve in the Cuben fabric I couldn't remove.  The one that flew great turned slightly tighter, was a little more forgiving to line commands, but the climb was not as steep.

Today, I added the batten pockets and battens.  Now the 2 Bird of Prey 24s flight great and the same.  In conclusion and as expected, the Bird of Prey 24s need the battens to hold the Cuben fabric tight at the wing tips, and to keep the wing tip reinforcements parallel with the sail at the wing tips.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWlJjcWFyWm4zR00)




Title: Bird of Prey 36Ms, 48C and 48M
Post by: Doug S on March 05, 2016, 02:56 PM
Over the holidays I build several Bird of Preys for Phil and Barbara Burks.  Phil was kind enough to send me the following pictures of their Bird of Prey 36Ms.

Phil Burks flying his Bird of Prey 36M - Black/Blue/Orange Cuben
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU1lqNHpBUFRfd2c)

Barbara Burks with her Bird of Prey 36M - White/Blue/White Cuben
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSHFhdTdaZV9SZmM)

I revisited my original ultra light version of the Bird of Prey 48C, which was finished in March of 2014.  I also just finished a three panel ultra light version of the Bird of Prey 48M, with the same color layout as Phil Burks Bird of Prey 36M.

I had an enjoyable two hours dialing in the glide on both of these glider kites this afternoon.  The original Bird of Prey 48C was tail heavy and would just float and glide very slowly.  With a little more nose weight, it now glides like my Bird of Prey 36s and easily can glide over my entire front yard.  With the additional nose weight, the total weight is now 16.7 grams.  The three panel version also flys very well with a total weight of 19.4 grams.  The following provides a picture for each of these two glider kites.  As a point of reference, the Bird of Prey 48 made from PC-31 weighs 30.7 grams.

I believe why these two glider kites needed the additional nose weight is because I am flying them on only 10 lb. spectra line, which reduces the line drag and the associated nose weight effect.

Doug Stout's Original Bird of Prey 48C - Orange Cuben
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYURVakJVX1pOTlU)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 48M - Black/Blue/Orange Cuben
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVDVaclFmRGhQdXM)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on March 05, 2016, 05:52 PM
Love the Black Blue Orange 48.

Nice work

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on March 06, 2016, 09:34 AM
Doug:
For Christmas this year, I made my Father a BoP 48 out of Icarex and we've now flown it a fair amount and I'll first say we are really pleased with this kite and thank you again for your design and the work perfecting it.  Not sure how to post pictures and haven't taken the time to learn how (but I will) and will send you a static picture and a flying picture.

We have found this kite wants a little nose weight to glide well, otherwise in really light wind it floats as you indicate but tends to stall when you want to make it glide.  We had trouble coming up with the right tubing for the spine/spar joints and ended up soldering some light brass tubing and bending it to get the dihedral joint needed.  That has worked Ok, but it obviously makes the kite heavier than it could be.  We measured it this morning at 39.3 grams and I'm guessing the fitting is maybe 2/3rds the difference in weight from yours.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again.  I need to get busy and make my own now.
All the best - NWFlyer 


Title: Bird of Prey 48s
Post by: Doug S on March 06, 2016, 09:53 AM
Coogee and NWFlyer,

Thank you for your kind words and feedback.   ;D

NWFlyer,

If you send me your pictures, I can add them to my Google Drive and post them on this Forum.  Also, I just sent you an email to help you out with your center spine/wing spar joiners.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 48 built by NWFlyer
Post by: Doug S on March 06, 2016, 12:04 PM
Ken was kind enough to the send me the following two pictures of his Bird of Prey 48.  Thank you Ken.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSF9aRDBHb2lzQXc)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeEZFeFVFQlRKWVE)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) In Process
Post by: Doug S on March 11, 2016, 03:46 PM
Finally started putting together the Bird of Prey 76.  I began with the large center blue panel with the 13 stars.  The following provides two pictures of this section in process.  It was fun gluing and sewing on the 13 stars, and glad that's over.  The third picture is what this glider kite will look like when it's finished.  The next step will be to glue/sew on the red and white panels, from the tips to the tail.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 - Rear View - Stars glued on
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbm0yT01oZUlVQUU)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 - Front View - Stars sewn on
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFc2gxalB4QUtwMXc)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 - Color Layout
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFb3ZzWmpvUDFKMWc)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) In Process
Post by: Doug S on March 16, 2016, 01:57 PM
Making good progress on the Bird of Prey 76.  The following provides a picture showing all the panels sewn together.  I also included a picture of the hand stitching of the 17 white feather points.  If I used the glue stick or double sided tape to bond the white panel with the feathers on top of the blue panel, the white would appear to be translucent where the adhesive would be applied, so I used several pieces of masking tape to hold the white panel in place for the two rows of stitching.  For the blue tail feathers, there was not a concern about the material being translucent, so the blue panel was glued on the white tail, with one row of stitching.  The next step will be to hem the edges, add the wing spar sleeves and reinforcements, then add the eye details.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - All Panels Sewn
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMGE1ZVhpbWF0ZFU)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Close up of Hand Stitched 17 Feather Points
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdkNCSEM3UmlQeGs)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Revrookie on March 16, 2016, 09:05 PM
You're really showing off on the craftsmanship again!
Love that style Doug.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on March 17, 2016, 02:20 AM
Awesome work

Very impressed!

Mike


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on March 17, 2016, 02:27 AM
I see past model airplane craftsmanship there Doug  8)  Nice!


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - In Process
Post by: Doug S on March 17, 2016, 05:49 AM
Kelly, Mike and Steve,

Thank you for the kind words.  Wasn't trying to show off the workmanship.  Just wanted to share how I got myself out of another concept/design dilemma.  It's just me managing that old battle going on in my mind, where the artistic side of me comes up with a great complicated concept, then the engineering/craftsman side of me has to figure out how to build it with available materials.  :o

I'm just relieved I got past the 13 stars and the two feather panels without screwing them up.  The striped (red and white) panels were a blast to make and add to the sail.  The next mental battle is how to finish the nose reinforcement to honor the color of the nose layout.  Will try a laminate of yellow PC-31 on white Dacron and see how that looks.  If that works, I may even try doing that for the wing tips and batten pockets, with red PC-31 on white or black Dacron, which ever looks the best.  Now that would be showing off.  ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 17, 2016, 05:56 AM
show off! lets see it! (not calling you a showoff, that should be read as a request!)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - In Process
Post by: Doug S on March 17, 2016, 08:19 AM
Rob,

You are a funny man. :D

If you can make the indoor event at Dedham, MA, I will have the completed Bird of Prey 76 with me, along with all of my other glider kites, including the beast (Bird of Prey 96).  Hope to see you there. ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Process Update
Post by: Doug S on March 19, 2016, 06:24 PM
Making some more progress on the Bird of Prey 76.  The first picture shows the 3/16 in. hem around the perimeter of the sail has been sewn.  Since this picture was taken, I have added the wing spar sleeves, batten pockets and wing tip pocket/reinforcements.  The second picture is a view of the back of the left wing, showing how I was able to cover the white Dacron with the red PC-31.  For this Bird of Prey, I think it looks better than me using my standard black Dacron wing tip pocket/reinforcements and batten pockets.  This was done as a test, so I can figure out how to finish the nose reinforcement, to try and honor the color of the eagle nose.  Just need to add the nose and tail reinforcements, the bridle line and center spine/wing spar joiner reinforcements, then finish the eagle eye/face details.   Almost done.   ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Hem Sewn
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ1h3NVpEWTRzdHM)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) -
Rear view of Left Wing Tip - Batten Pockets and Wing Tip Pocket/Reinforcement

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdThtMmkxUkRuTVE)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Ready For Framing
Post by: Doug S on March 21, 2016, 03:34 PM
Finished sewing the Bird of Prey 76 and added the eye details.  I used a wider section of white Dacron that is covered by two layers of yellow PC-31 for the nose reinforcement, so I could hide the center spine end cap behind the nose.  Used a piece of tubing that is sewn to the nose reinforcement as the nose guide for the center spine.  Most of my Bird of Prey glider kites have the center spine extend beyond the nose with an end cap.  I think this will look cleaner for this version of the Bird of Prey.  I also included a picture of the back of the sail, so you can see what I did with the bridle line reinforcements.  Usually I use circle shaped reinforcements.  On this Bird of Prey, I made the shape of the reinforcement like the feather it's behind, so you can not see them when the sun is behind the sail.

As an update, I replaced the yellow accent on the yellow nose panel between the nose and the grey around the eyes, with grey accent on the yellow nose panel.  Now you can see the accent.  Also, my Bird of Prey 76 needs to breath, so I added the nostrils.  Will start making the frame.  Will add the joiner Dacron reinforcement to the back of the sail, after I have the kite assembled and the joiner location dialed in along the center spine.

This version of my Bird of Prey has been very tedious to build, but will look nice in the air.  I could not have build this Bird of Prey without the great aluminum templates from Tom White.  Especially the fine details like the stars, feathers and all of the nose details.  This Bird of Prey was like a jigsaw puzzle to put together.  ;D   

All most done.  ;)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) -
All Sewn with Head Details, View from the Front of the Sail

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFb2lnbjlXeFcyMHM)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) -
All Sewn with Head Details, View from the Back of the Sail

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVl8yUWF5REpEREE)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) -
Head (Nose), View from the Front of the Sail

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVVYzWlRRZjQzQkk)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) -
Head (Nose), View from the Back of the Sail

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVE1oT214NXl3Y0U)


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - All Finished Update
Post by: Doug S on March 25, 2016, 04:04 PM
Finished the Bird of Prey 76 today.  The first picture is it hanging in my foyer, my traditional picture backdrop.  The second picture is the back of the sail, where you can see the nose and nose weight.  I really like the way this came out, where the nose cap is hidden behind the nose.  To dial in the balance for the first flight, I added two 2 in. long zinc roll pins, which weight in total 14.6 grams.  This moved the balance point forward to 17 1/4 in. behind the nose.  With the nose weight, the total weight is 83.2 grams (0.324 oz./sq.ft. project sail area), which is lighter than I expected.  The project sail area is 1,303 sq.in.  It has the same sail loading as my Bird of Prey 62, with a projected sail area of 867 sq.in.  I used a piece of tubing for the joiner, until the nice machined Delrin one arrives from Tom White.   ;D

Took it for a quick test flight in my front yard.  Wind was a little gusty, between 5 and 8 mph, but this Bird of Prey handled it very well.  First flight, I caught a thermal and it went up to over 100 feet.  She glides very nice and handles beautifully.  This one is a keeper!  Will try to take some pictures of it in flight.  ;D

March 28, 2016 Update:  Received Tom White's joiner today in the mail.  Much better than my tubing version.  With the new joiner and joiner reinforcement installed to protect the sail, the total weight is now 87.7 grams, (0.342 oz./sq.ft. projected sail area).  This works for me and is exactly what I just calculated as a check, when using the sail loadings of the Bird of Prey 62 and 96, and the sail areas of the Bird of Prey 62, 76 and 96.  Waiting for the high winds to calm down to go play.  ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - All Finished
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFckVlRUJwSV9TWE0)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - View from the Back of the Sail, Nose and Nose Weight
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFY1ltR3FqcmhGRk0)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: stapp59 on March 25, 2016, 04:18 PM
That build certainly has nice detailing Doug  8)  I feel so lame for not appliqueing in at least a star or two.  :D  Pretty bird.


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - All Finished
Post by: Doug S on March 25, 2016, 04:30 PM
Steve,

Thank you for kind words.   You can always add stars later.  This is my first one with stars and I was stressing how to do this and not screw it up.  Tom White made me aluminum templates, where I hot cut out the 13 stars from the blue panel, and templates to hot cut out each size of the white stars.  Just used a glue stick to mount them on the back of the sail, then straight stitched from the back side.  Sounds so simple now.  ;)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on March 25, 2016, 04:48 PM
Very nice work!

Mike


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Trimming in Process
Post by: Doug S on April 01, 2016, 09:46 AM
Mother Nature is not being very cooperative since I finished this glider kite.  Been able to get out twice and fly.  Today the winds were better and ranging from 5 to 10 mph, with gusts above 20 mph.  This Bird of Prey is a pisser to fly under these conditions!  It cuts through the turbulence and is responsive.  The sail is very efficient using the stiff CST DPP 0.157 in. OD Carbon Tubes and Tom White's great machined Delrin Joiner.  During the lower end of the wind range, I believe I have the balance point dialed in, reducing the nose weight to 3.0 in. in length.  I tried 3.5 in. nose weight the other day, and it appeared to still be a little nose heavy.  Originally I used 4.0 in. of nose weight and it was nose heavy.  Based on this, the total weight of this glider kite is now down to 84.2 grams (0.328 oz./sq.ft. projected sail area).  The following provides a picture of the front and back of this glider kite, where you can see the current nose weight and joiner on the back side.

Need to wait for the wind to die down next week to confirm the balance point and nose weight to be used under calm conditions.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Front View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNFNBWnRpT1lJVGs)

Doug Stout's Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle) - Rear View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcFV4ZzJ4N3JGTkE)


Title: Bird of Prey and Hawk Demo Kites for Kite Mania North "Windless" Edition 2016
Post by: Doug S on April 14, 2016, 09:16 AM
The following picture shows newly finished Bird of Prey 24s and Hawk 20s that will be used during the hands-on portion of my presentation at the Kite Mania North "Windless" Edition 2016 Event in Dedham, MA, this weekend on April 16 and 17, 2016.  They each weigh 2.7 grams and have almost the same projected sail area and sail loading.  These glider kites will allow the participants to experience the difference in performance and handling due to the shape of the sails, and to experiment with moving the balance point on the Bird of Prey 24s, the flying line/bridle connection point on the Bird of Prey 24s and Hawk 20s, and sail washout angle on the Hawk 20s.  If you live in the northeast, I hope you can make the event.  ;D

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeHotb2l0TktEZm8)


Title: Kite Mania North "Windless" Edition 2016 Pictures
Post by: Doug S on April 19, 2016, 08:18 AM
I had a great time at the KiteMania North "Windless Edition" 2016 Event in Dedham, MA this past weekend on April 16 and 17, 2016.  We all greatly appreciate the hard work that Archie Stewart, Steve Santos, and Sue Moskowitz put in to plan, host and run this great indoor event.  Also we greatly appreciate the efforts of all of the presenters and helping hands from the Northeast and Canada.  I hope event pictures will be posted at their Facebook Page in the near future, at https://www.facebook.com/kitemaniawindlessedition/?fref=nf. (https://www.facebook.com/kitemaniawindlessedition/?fref=nf.)

The following provides a few pictures from this event.  Thank you to those individuals who took the pictures and shared them.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Normand Girard from Montreal, Canada and I chatting,
while I assemble a Bird of Prey 36M for my presentation.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcUlFSUNfQ0hOcGs)

My presentation underway on Kite Aerodynamics and Tuning Techniques.
On the left are 4 Bird of Prey 36s and 2 Bird of Prey 48s ready for flight.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdEtIaUQ4VGpjTUk)

3 Bird of Prey Glider Kites in Flight after my Presentation.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZnBDUnRqTHFzOEk)

Open Space flying in the Presentation Hall.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ2xRbVdZbkl1enM)

Open Space flying in the Presentation Hall.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU05vdWEzdHJEdEk)

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle in Flight.  Just had to give it a try indoors.
Was able to fly it up to the high ceiling with ease, and around the perimeter of this great room.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQXpwaUJXRkkwY2c)

Scott Weider with his Rev, with me with my Bird of Prey 36M in the background.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOFFPQi1ybmxhTzg)



Title: 26th Kite Day in the Park, Easton, PA - May 7 2016 - Video and Pictures
Post by: Doug S on May 11, 2016, 12:58 PM
Had a great time attending the 26th Kite Day in the Park, Easton, PA, on Saturday, May 7 2016.  Prior to the event, we had rain almost every day for over a week in the Northeast.  There was light rain driving to the event, which ending during the morning.  The sky was overcast for most of the day and became partly cloudy in the afternoon.  The wind was light and changing in direction throughout the day.  Great weather for light wind single line kites and glider kites!  Congratulations to Andy and his team planning and running this event for 26 years!   ;D

It was great to see everyone again at the event.  Kurtis Jones and his family made it this year.  He was quite impressed at the size of the open fields and how well the grass was maintained at the Park.  Art Babiarz and his lovely wife came to help out.  When Art could break away, he came over to my tent to plot with me which Bird of Prey was going to get some air time.  ;D

Regarding the Bird of Preys, I started off with the Bird of Prey 96 for a while, and then switched to the Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle.  I should have learned by now that dandelion weeds and slack glider kite flying line don't get along.  Every time I was letting one of the Bird of Preys run, my other hand was doing a tug-of-war with my flying line hooked on the weeds.  I also wore my old sneakers due to the damp field, which are a magnet for my flying line.  Did a great imitation of Charlie Brown on many occasions, which was quite entertaining for the other kite flyers and spectators.  :D

I love the way the Bird of Prey 76 fly’s when the wind was clean coming out of the gap in the trees to the north and out of the west.  Very smooth flat turns, some inches off of the ground.  This one is a keeper.  Did sky the Bird of Prey 76 on 250 feet a few times with the single line guys, when the wind was right.  In Picture 35 provided below, you can see my Bird of Prey 76 at 250 feet, in the upper left.  It's the little red, white and blue one.  My favorite remark from my single line friends was "Would someone please tell Doug that there is no wind and he shouldn't be flying."  I was there entertainment when the wind was calm.

The wind became very lighter after lunch, so I flew the ultra-light Bird of Prey 48 for a brief moment.  It didn't like the light turbulent air.  It's a good glider kite for indoor, but not these conditions.  For the heck of it, I got out the little ultra-light Bird of Prey 18 to let Art Babiarz have some fun.  What a blast to fly in these conditions.  Used 20 feet of 5 lb. spectra line, with one end looped around my wrist.  It would run down wind to the end of the line and just wait for line inputs.  Consecutive snap spins and wing overs were routine.  It would just float on the turbulent air, and then cut right through it and climb with a little line input.  No problems with the weeds.  The line was short and light enough to just float in the wind, very rarely touching the ground.  Spend hours flying this little kite in the afternoon to the music playing at the event.  This is my new favorite kite for these conditions.  Who knew this little 18 inch, 1.3 gram glider kite could do this!  You learn something new every day.   :D

The following provides a link to a short 41 second video of the event, taken by The Morning Call.  They caught me playing in the morning with the Bird of Prey 96, at 19 to 20 seconds, and 23 to 29 seconds.

http://www.mcall.com/videos/mc-northampton-s-kite-day-20160507-premiumvideo.html (http://www.mcall.com/videos/mc-northampton-s-kite-day-20160507-premiumvideo.html)

The following provides a few pictures from the event.  Thank you to those for taking and sharing these pictures.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Picture 1
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWm1rR3FaNWtYWkE)

Picture 2
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaWQ1YnNQZm45cTg)

Picture 3
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQzRCZHZ4UEw0Q0k)

Picture 4
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFam45ZF9RT20tdEU)

Picture 5
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMUE3ZTR6RUNNajA)

Picture 6
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFM1cyYTVQZ0I1QTQ)

Picture 7
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdllFdGhyek9uVnc)

Picture 8
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYVhkVENaM09rck0)

Picture 9
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZEV0MVNTcVcwVkE)

Picture 10
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWmkyZXM4dHR4V2M)

Picture 11
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMHgwc0lWaW9fMEU)

Picture 12
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMUItN3pkNk1NQVU)

Picture 13
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcDA1Y1dXbkFOMkU)

Picture 14
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbC02UFEzRHdoNEE)

Picture 15
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQmFNOW5kOVVnUTA)

Picture 16
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRTNBMEhreVdJMk0)

Picture 17
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSklwZTZudU5uM1U)

Picture 18
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUF92T3Jva3hxSTg)

Picture 19
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWm1pR09IcmI1OGs)

Picture 20
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ1FiZUp0bEZuVDA)

Picture 21
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdTg5RFF0cHc1b2M)

Picture 22
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcVNBaVV4WFJyQmM)

Picture 23
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeXpoaFhOMXVrOVU)

Picture 24
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUGhxMExBcnVpZHc)

Picture 25
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFX284RWktaDB4RnM)

Picture 26
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ0ktZ2JCQmhrNXM)

Picture 27
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNzc1U01RMXE4WVk)

Picture 28
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOU12YlpBNWZmblE)

Picture 29
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFY2JRSG9LX210MVE)

Picture 30
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMTZIalNzZEhfUWs)

Picture 31
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSFRZbEtqMXhZenM)

Picture 32
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQXNxc2VFWi1ROHM)

Picture 33
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFczB2RTFnVVBXRGc)

Picture 34
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRVNRRkVObUtuUTA)

Picture 35
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMmh2bENpb0VURmc)

Picture 36
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdjNXbHJpRUx5Nnc)

Picture 37
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUkFoeWRFRHc1ZFk)


Title: Bird of Prey 24S and 36M - On their way to Rhode Island
Post by: Doug S on May 15, 2016, 11:57 AM
Just finished a Bird of Prey 36M for Steve Santos.  Steve and I flew my Bird of Prey 36M at the indoor competition in Dedham, MA.  Steve also will be receiving a Bird of Prey 24S, so he can fly it in his high ceiling family room.  Steve and I will be using the Bird of Prey 36Ms at the indoor event in Wildwood, NJ.  We hope to see you there.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbVVQOFlidUdrbGs)


Title: Wildwoods International Kite Festival - Indoor Event Pictures and Video
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2016, 08:09 PM
Was able to attend and fly at the Wildwoods International Kite Festival on Memorial Day.  The following provides some pictures taken at the Indoor Event and the associated score sheet.  Thank you to the kite fliers who shared the pictures.  It was great seeing all my kite friends again!  Was fortunate to place 1st in the Single Line Event using my Bird of Prey 36M.  Got lucky and only stepped on my flying line once during my routine.

After the event, a few of us got a chance to fly my Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle).  The following provides a link to a video with Jose Sainz on the line.  Paul Dugard, Jose Sainz, Peter Dolphin and myself were taking turns and having a blast.  I had the Bird of Prey 76 balanced at the rear location to obtain the slowest glide, but not the best L/D.  With a little more nose weight, the glide will be longer with a flatter glide slope. 

If you have Facebook, please search for this event.  Many of the kite flyers have posted great pictures and videos from the outdoor and indoor activities.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Single Line Indoor

Mike Stuligross
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNHhpQVVpRkk1aGs)

James Fletcher
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZHFtM05JNmczNG8)

Jackie Maciel
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTUdmT09JYVlOdjA)

Pauly Berard
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUkx0aF8ydVdaWmc)

Doug Stout
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdVdHOU5wTV96cEE)

Open Unlimited Indoor

Steve Santos
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFa1NqM2xUX3NTWUU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQlVjeDl5dXhta0k)

Pauly Berard
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVHpWUnpoSlBVVVU)

Jackie Maciel
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFck1rRVdwTDEwNjQ)

James Fletcher
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZVdEaHM2bXVLYlU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdlRHLWU1aGhYYjA)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRDFPeE1zb2tXdjA)

Jeff King
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRlU3cGVLVjZrWTQ)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRlE1TnhiRnNxR0E)

Paul LaMasters
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVldRUnJDYkVOc1k)

Lisa Willoughby
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUjdaeXZrejU3TkU)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMmdCaEFUYWJJMlU)

View of Indoor Venue with Lisa Willoughby Flying
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZjBxblBCa1RmVG8)

Indoor Event Scores
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUlgyTm9zWnlneXc)

My Bird of Prey Squadron Ready for the Indoor Event
Front Row:  Bird of Prey 18, 24, 36, 36B and three 36Ms.
Second Row:  Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle)
Third Row:  Bird of Prey 96
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWkg4ZU1wM2pHa0E)

Video of Jose Sainz flying my Bird of Prey 76 (Patriotic Eagle)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZmxfWW92RlgyN3M/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZmxfWW92RlgyN3M/view?usp=sharing)





Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on June 02, 2016, 06:06 PM
Doug

Great pictures and nice video. The 76 looks awesome. it is so graceful flying.


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on June 02, 2016, 06:19 PM
The Big Bird does look great in flight.

Mike


Title: Wildwoods International Kite Festival - Indoor Event - 2 More Pictures
Post by: Doug S on June 06, 2016, 08:37 AM
Two more pictures from Wildwood.  The Wildwood pictures and video are posted on my Google Drive, under the Kite Festivals folder.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Left to Right:  Jose Sainz, Steve Santos, Doug Stout with Bird of Prey 76 and Peter Dolphin
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU2lQNUFaQldpTXM)

James Fletcher in the foreground, Bird of Prey 96 in the background
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVFFkSWEtQ2djWEE)


Title: Bird of Prey 18 and 36Ms Glider Kites
Post by: Doug S on June 29, 2016, 03:15 PM
A Bird of Prey 18 and three Bird of Prey 36Ms ready to be packed and shipped to their new happy homes.  Just finished test flying these four glider kites and I hate to seem them leave.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYU5UeUwwSHQ1QjA)


Title: Glider Kite Aerodynamic Presentation
Post by: Doug S on July 09, 2016, 08:15 AM
As you may be aware, I enjoy using my engineering skills to design, build and trim glider kites.  If you are interested in this aspect of kiting, the following link provides access to my glider kite aerodynamics power point presentation on my Google Drive, which I presented at the Kite Mania North Indoor Event, held in Dedham, MA on April 16 and 17, 2016.  Thank you to Archie Stewart and Steve Santos for asking me to put this together and present it at their great indoor event.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTHFOcWJTTWJUNFE/view?usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle in Process, Bird of Prey 76 for Other Colors
Post by: Doug S on July 17, 2016, 02:42 PM
In the process of building a few Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagles, which are very time consuming due to the 41 pieces of PC-31 and the hand stitching for the tips of the feathers and the head details.  The following picture is the completed sail for Paul Dugard.  Will finish this one up and have it on its way to Paul this week.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFU1NDX2ozUG4xTGs)

To allow this Bird of Prey 76 to be constructed using other colors, I developed a new layout that is a conceptual blend of the bird layout for the Bird of Prey 36 and 48, and the Patriotic Eagle.  The following illustrates the new layout using my traditional red, white and blue colors, which will reduce the time and associated cost to build this size of the Bird of Prey.  If I were to build more Bird of Prey 96s, this would be the layout I would use.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMHBHMFN1SjZCcTg)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle
Post by: Doug S on July 20, 2016, 11:46 AM
Just finished the Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle for Paul Dugard.  The following provides a picture of his glider kite.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFV1FYN240SlRCZXM)

The following provides a picture of the two Bird of Prey Patriotic Eagles in existence, with Paul's on top and mine on the bottom.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFd1NHeGR3TWcxcGs)

Next is to build two more, with one for Jose Sainz and one for Tom White.  After they are done, I will build the prototype for the less complex version of this size Bird of Prey.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on July 20, 2016, 12:28 PM
Beautiful work

Mike



Title: A little sailing in August, now back in the Workshop
Post by: Doug S on September 07, 2016, 11:38 AM
At the request of my youngest son Jonathan, who is a Junior at Northeastern University in Boston MA, we pulled the cover off of my Laser 2 sailboat and did a little sailing at our local lakes during the month of August.  Use to race this sailboat locally on Lake Hopatcong in the late 1990s/early 2000s.  Fun little sailboat at 14.5 feet and 168 pounds.  Mine looks like the attached picture with the two having fun flying the spinnaker, except my hull is a medium shade of blue, with the Laser 1995 rainbow splash decal on the side of the hull and along the inside of the cockpit.  Picked it up new in 1996, and it's still like new.

We returned Jonathan back to college the end of last week, so I am back in the workshop finishing a Bird of Prey 76 for Jose Sainz.  Just mailed a Bird of Prey 18 to a young lady in Texas.  Will be attending the Cherry Valley Kite Festival in Cherry Valley, NY on September 23-25, 2016 and the LBI International Kite Festival, in LBI, NJ on October 7-9, 2016.  It's good to be back in the workshop.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on September 07, 2016, 01:38 PM
Hey nice boat.

I sail skiffs in Sydney, sailing is great fun!

The 24" Hawk in Orcon is very nice for indoor stuff, very slow. A real floater!

Mike


Title: LBI FLY International Kite Festival - October 7-10, 2016
Post by: Doug S on October 05, 2016, 11:45 AM
Great news!  It looks like hurricane Matthew is going to miss Long Beach Island (LBI), New Jersey for this coming weekend.  I will be attending with my Bird of Prey family of glider kites, and competing at the Indoor Event on Friday night.  Please stop by and say hello.  For more information about this Festival, please visit their page on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=lbi%20fly%20international%20kite%20festival (https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=lbi%20fly%20international%20kite%20festival)

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: LBI FLY International Kite Festival - Videos from the Indoor Event
Post by: Doug S on October 13, 2016, 02:02 PM
The following link provides access to my Google Drive, which contains videos for most of the Indoor Routines at the 2016 LBI FLY International Kite Festival:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOURRNmJHNWdqUXc

These videos were taken on behalf of Mike Stuligross with his equipment. Thank you Mike for sharing these videos with me. I also have included the results for the two indoor events. Unfortunately, I don’t have the videos for the single line routine for Jackie Maciel, and the unlimited routines for Lisa Willoughby, Dave Ashworth and Fred Taylor. If you have a video for any of these individuals, please contact me so that I can obtain a copy and post them. Thank you.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: NWFlyer on October 13, 2016, 03:37 PM
Really enjoyed watching those videos.  Thanks for posting the link to them.  Seems like a nice event for indoor flyers and your BoP kite flew especially well.  Very nice.

NW Flyer


Title: LBI FLY International Kite Festival - Videos from the Indoor Event
Post by: Doug S on October 13, 2016, 04:34 PM
Thank you, and I hope to obtain and post a few more videos from the event.  Regarding the Bird of Prey (BOP), there were three BOP 36Ms flown in the competition.  One by me, one by Mike Stuligross at the end of his routine, and one by Steve Santos in the beginning of his routine.  Steve and I were successful in placing first in our respective indoor events.


Title: LBI FLY International Kite Festival - Videos from the Indoor Event
Post by: Doug S on October 14, 2016, 10:56 AM
Thank you to Fred and Donna Taylor.  They provided me with additional videos from the indoor event.  The additional videos include the contest performances for Lisa Willoughby and Fred Taylor, and the demonstration performance for Archie Stewart.  The can be viewed using the same link.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Bird of Prey Glider Kites and Other Future Builds
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2016, 08:19 AM
Been able to get back in the workshop a few days during the week, after recovering from a nasty respiratory infection that knocked me on my butt for a few weeks.

Currently finishing a Bird of Prey (BOP) 76 Patriotic Eagle for Jose Sainz.  This build is taking way too long, but I only will work on it when I feel up to it, due to the intricate details.  A few BOP 18s are in process for others, based on the fun we had flying them indoors at the LBI Firehouse.  Building two more BOP 18s to be used as demo kites.

I also have an ultra-light BOP 48 in process.  Over the past two years, I experimented with an ultra-light BOP 48, one with a single panel and one with multiple panels.  The first one was slightly tail heavy and just floated very slowly in the air.  Was like flying a tethered blimp.  Due to the sail area and the associated sail loading, I thought it was actually too light.  This past year I built a multiple panel version that was slightly heavier, using stiffer Cuben for the center and nose area.  When I was in Dedham, MA earlier this year, I was able to get the balance point dialed in.  Now I can fly them more aggressively.  Recently at the request of a fellow glider kite flyer in San Diego, CA, I took them out and had some fun with them.  Was even able to pull off a couple of consecutive climbing snap spins in very light wind.  Just need a little more arm movement, as compared to flying the BOP 36s.  It will be a great indoor kite for him to fly in a larger indoor venue.

After I clear the above off of my current to do list, will be building a BOP 76 Patriotic Eagle for Tom White and the simple sail version of the BOP 76.  Then onto finishing a few other single line kites for me, such as the 4 Hearts that are underway and a Shield Kite of my own design, for the shield portion of my family's Coat of Arms.  The following picture is my first cut at the design, which is 28 inches wide and 46 inches tall.  Still working with my family members to determine if the base color is white or grey.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOGVnMU5zREFLME0)

I also have my X-29 Canard kite to build, where the panels have been cut out for a long time.  I have a few other more complex kites I would like to tackle over the winter, such as one of Dave Holt's Airplane kites with a Snoopy theme, and a Rokkaku with my family's complete Coat of Arms.

I am beginning my search for a place to fly locally indoors between events.  Want to take my successful single line indoor routine to the next level, which only will happen with more quality indoor flying time.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Fly Market on November 02, 2016, 08:47 AM
That shield kite looks pretty close to the design of the shield that Sam & Cari King taught at Fort Worden a few years ago, plans for which were published in KITING. Before you reinvent the wheel, take a look at the plans that are already online.  http://www.flymarketkites.com/kite-plans/ (http://www.flymarketkites.com/kite-plans/)


Title: Bird of Prey Glider Kites and Other Future Builds
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2016, 09:38 AM
Thank you for the background.  A while ago I found their plans, which help me understand the basics.  My design is a combination of Gary Engvall's Rokkaku design and the King's shield design.  The size and shape is what I found to be for a typical larger medieval shield.

To keep it light, I will build this kite out of PC-31 and use my typical overlapping seam of 3/16 inches and straight stitching, and a 3/16 inch folded and straight stitched edge, like my PC-31 versions of my glider kites.  I won't be using edge binding, because my family's shield doesn't have a different color around the perimeter of the shield, except for the black outline to make it standout on the coat of arms background color.  Once I have the panels sewn together, I will determine if I want to use a curved or straight lower spreader, which also will dictate how I will make the lower bridle portion (one or two connection points).  Will build it to use different frames for varying wind conditions.  The templates for the patterns have been drafted and printed out.  If I like the way it looks, I may even tinker with making one as a glider kite, using ultra-light CST DPP narrow carbon tubes, standard two point bridle and a forward center of gravity.

Please note this is a simple version of what I would like to build in the future, which is my family's full Coat of Arms, using a Rokkaku as my potential foundation.  The pictures below show the two versions of my family's coat of arms that I have.  My family has documentation, which traces my ancestors back to Nottinghamshire, England.  My family arrived in American in the early 1600s.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdkRzdDhqcXBpejQ)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFa3RsdUZFc3dCY3M)


Title: Olan & Bernice Turner International Invitational Peanut Butter Cookie Kite Fly
Post by: Doug S on November 07, 2016, 08:01 AM
Attended for my first time the Olan and Bernice Turner International Invitational Open Peanut Butter Cookie Kite Fly and Bake Off on Sunday, November 6th, that ran from noon to 4 pm.  This is a great little informal kite festival on the Boardwalk in Seaside Park, New Jersey.  The event has been going on for 30 years.  When Olan and Bernice Turner couldn’t run the event any more, they asked Mike and Celia Dallmer to take over.  Mike and Celia do a fantastic job.  There were about 15 of us there.  Lisa Willoughby won the kite portion of the very informal competition with a cute little indoor paper napkin kite of the Peanuts Gang.  I forget who won the peanut butter cookie portion of the event.  My peanut butter cookie chocolate chip brownies didn’t place, but my family loved them.  Oh well.  I came to fly and just hang with good kite flying people.

The temperatures were in the high 50s, with an estimate wind speed of 15 to 17 mph by NOAA, out of the north northwest.  Due to the wind direction, the air was a little choppy coming over the shore homes and the dunes.  Without knowing the actual wind speeds, I did the unthinkable and put up my Bird of Prey (BOP) 96 with the stronger of the two frames (P100s/2PTs), which was designed for maximum wind speed of about 10 mph (my estimate).  I was going to fly my large Premier Red, White and Blue Rokkaku or my HQ Treczoks Cody, but I didn’t want to get dragged down the beach.  I wanted to fly one of my patriotic kites, since we were within a few blocks of the pipe bomb explosion that happened on September 17, 2016.  Mike made each of the participants a little red, white and blue shaped peanut tail, out of ripstop nylon.  A few of us hung them off of the tail portions of our kites.

I detuned my BOP 96 by adding the longest nose weight I had and moved the bridle connection point forward 1 in.  I also added my old Dyna kite 1 in. wide and 60 ft. long tails to it, with red and blue on the tips and white for the center.  I switched to 250 lb. Dacron line to add drag.  Did I tell you we were launching off of the new board walk over the fenced in sand dunes?  That made it even more fun.  The BOP 96 flew well and stable.  The pull was light to moderate and the sail unloaded under the stiff wind.  It looked really cool with the three 60 ft. long tails.  I flew it for over an hour, and then brought it down on the beach.  Didn’t want to land it in the fenced in dunes with the tails.  The PC-31 sail and frame were in great shape, with no damaged due to the excessive wind.  Not bad for a kite with 2,079 sq.in. of sail area, that only weighs 178 grams.  It actually flew better than the convention delta kites that were in the air.  When the wind would cycle low, the BOP 96 would glide to right over my head.  Didn’t know the actual wind speeds until I checked it on NOAA this morning, which were brisk at 16 with gusts to 25 mph.  What was I thinking.  I will make up a stiffer frame and longer nose weight, in case I am foolish enough to trying that again in the future.

After that fun, Lisa Willoughby and I went down on the beach to fly multi-line kites.  Lisa flew one of her vented Revs.  I brought out my old 1995 8 ft. Raptor Dual Line Stunt Kites (my design), with the four adjustable vents.  Back in the day, I made it with state-of-the-art Shysharks, some of which were never placed on the market, like the hybrid composite center spine.  Wasn’t going to break this frame or kite.  I had each of the four vents open half way.  Flew it on 140 ft. of 300 lb. spectra line, with a 100 ft. multi-colored tail that matched the sail (red, white, blue and black).  The tail was made for me by the late Sarge Cleaves.  The forward speed and line pull were perfect, and I had a blast for another hour.  It added some nice patriotic color to the air.

One of the most fun days I have had flying outdoors in a white.  Did tell Mike on a few occasions that I am a spooled kite flyer, since now I spend most of my time flying glider kites indoors or in low wind conditions on grass fields.  What is with this wind and sand stuff?

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Mike Dallmer’s Red, White and Blue Peanut
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFS0xGMTduclFpWVk)

Bird of Prey 96 surviving the 16 to 25 mph winds
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbVhISTBiWkdqd28)

Bird of Prey 96 surviving the 16 to 25 mph winds, dumping excessive wind from a gust
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFUlVFejhDVUZFdlE)

Bird of Prey 96 surviving the 16 to 25 mph winds with its happy pilot
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMXJtUGJ3TnpMdjQ)

Bird of Prey 96 surviving the 16 to 25 mph winds in the background
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQVZ1cXFhRnlFR28)

Bird of Prey 96 happy to be back on the ground with pilot and Celia Dallmer
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNUt3emxFTHlWRTA)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Fly Market on November 07, 2016, 01:56 PM
We can tell you were a first timer. Vets simply refer to the event as the OABTIIOPBCKF.  :D


Title: OABTIIOPBCKFABO
Post by: Doug S on November 07, 2016, 02:12 PM
You mean OABTIIOPBCKFABO.  :D  Rookie only at that event.  ;D


Title: Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - And then there were three.
Post by: Doug S on November 17, 2016, 10:15 AM
And then there were three.  Finally finished this Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle for Jose Sainz, of San Diego, CA.  It was a joy to test fly last night.  Going to miss working on this one.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaFJjMVMtemdiNGc)



Title: Happy Thanksgiving!
Post by: Doug S on November 23, 2016, 07:59 AM
May your Thanksgiving be filled with love, laughter and remembrances of good times with family and friends.  Happy Thanksgiving!

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbUw0MkRHRVZuOGs)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: sugarbaker on November 23, 2016, 09:33 PM
Doug, I am seeing all your photos as broken links... did I miss some earlier discussion on how to see your pics?


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: Doug S on November 24, 2016, 05:39 AM
Sugarbaker,

The photo links are working for me on various devices.  Google may have had a short term problem.  Please try again.

Doug


Title: Cherry Valley Kite Festival - Indoor Performance Videos
Post by: Doug S on December 05, 2016, 07:09 AM
The following provides the link for the indoor performances at the Cherry Valley Kite Festival.  The Cherry Valley Kite Festival took place on September 23 and 24, 2016 in Cherry Valley, NY.  The videos include individual performances by Paul Berard, James Fletcher, Steve Santos, Doug Stout, Mike Stuligross, Fred Taylor and Scott Weider.  The videos also include a single line group performance with Paul Perard, Doug Stout, Mike Stuligross and Donna Taylor, and quad line group performance with Steve Santos, Fred Taylor and Scott Weider.  Thank you to Mike Stuligross who took the videos.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbmgtaWI3V0Z1U1k?usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Happy Holidays!
Post by: Doug S on December 21, 2016, 06:15 AM
May the melody and spirit of the holidays fill your home with love and peace.  I wish you and your family all the best and a very happy New Year!

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZkdwUC1vNkIxQkE)(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZG1XazlOc0NUVXc)



Title: 2016 Kite of the Year - Please vote for my Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle!
Post by: Doug S on January 09, 2017, 05:41 PM
My Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle Glider Kite is entered in the 2016 Kite of the Year!  There are eight kites entered in this competition.  I am making this post to encourage you (beg, grovel, etc.) to vote for my glider kite by posting a comment with my kite's number, which is Number 5, to the following Facebook link:

https://business.facebook.com/Fly-Market-Kitemaking-Supply-412778105544124/?business_id=498051343683466. (https://business.facebook.com/Fly-Market-Kitemaking-Supply-412778105544124/?business_id=498051343683466.)

Please note that just clicking LIKE on the provided link does not count as a vote.  You can only vote one time.  Voting will take place until the end of January (January 31, 2017).

If I am fortunate enough to win, I will receive a $100 Fly Market Kitemaking Supply gift certificate.  Please share this with your friends!  Thank you.

The following provides a few pictures of this glider, which development was presented on this great forum.  To demonstrate the capabilities of this glider kite, the following link shows it flight, under the very skilled hands of Jose Sainz, in the Convention Center at the 2016 Wildwood International Kite Festival:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZmxfWW92RlgyN3M/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZmxfWW92RlgyN3M/view?usp=sharing)

Front View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNFNBWnRpT1lJVGs)

Rear View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcFV4ZzJ4N3JGTkE)

Front View with the Sunlight behind the Sail
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFckVlRUJwSV9TWE0)

In Flight under the very skilled hands of Jose Sainz
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ01CMXpUV3VHUkU)




Title: New Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle Underway - Squadron of Bird of Prey 18s
Post by: Doug S on January 18, 2017, 08:37 AM
Back working on the fourth Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle.  This one is for Tom White, who makes the great aluminum templates, aluminum winders and Delrin joiners for me.  Without his aluminum templates, this version of the Bird of Prey would be very difficult to build.  The following shows a few pictures of Tom's glider kite in process.
 
I also included a picture of my squadron of Bird of Prey 18s.  The two on the left are the original versions made with white Cuben fabric.  The one in the middle is made with blue Cuben fabric, where it weighs a little more and fly's a little faster.  The two on the right are demo versions made with orange Cuben fabric, for others to play with at kite festivals.  The Bird of Prey 18s made with the white or orange Cuben fabric each weigh 1.3 grams, and have a sail loading of 0.09 oz./sq.ft. of sail area.   The one made with the blue Cuben fabric weighs a little more at 1.7 grams, and has a sail loading of 0.118 oz./sq.ft.  As a point of reference, the sail loading for the blue one and an iFlite are the same.  As you can see in the picture, I can use different PC31 colors for the wing tip and tail reinforcements.  I also can use black or white Dacron for the nose reinforcement.

If you have not done so, please read my prior post and vote for one of the kites for "2016 Kite of the Year", following the provided link and instructions.  If you have or are going to vote for my Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle, thank you!  The deadline for voting is January 31, 2017.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - PC31 Panels, Stars and Wing Spar Sleeves Cut Out
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFOTBkRnk4UTFOU2c)

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - Stars glued onto the Blue Panel
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeTA1b08yRFZyenM)

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - Stars sewn onto the Blue Panel
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMXVTM0NzSU5oT2s)

Bird of Prey 18 - Doug's Squadron
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFb0ZPazgtU3FSTEU)






Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: twhite510 on January 18, 2017, 06:30 PM
Yippie I can't wait to fly this bad boy.


Title: New Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle Underway (Update)
Post by: Doug S on January 19, 2017, 06:59 AM
Making some more progress on Tom's Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle.  The following picture shows the red and white striped panels glued together.  Next step is to glue these striped panels and the tail to the large blue panel with the stars, then sew them together.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - PC31 Striped Panels Glued Together
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMjRCMWl0OTV0R3M)




Title: New Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle Underway (Update)
Post by: Doug S on January 20, 2017, 11:44 AM
Making some more progress on Tom's Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle.  The following picture shows the blue and striped panels glued together.  Starting to look like the Bird of Prey.  Next step is to sew them together, then work on the two panels for the nose.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - PC31 Blue and Striped Panels Glued Together
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeXZrZmhZQXJZcWc)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on January 20, 2017, 02:05 PM
Very cool!


Mike


Title: Bird of Prey 18 - Updated Specification Plan (New Joiner Material)
Post by: Doug S on January 27, 2017, 11:29 AM
The following link provides access to the updated specification plan for the Bird of Prey 18.  The change is the type of material used for the joiner, which is now Teflon PTFE with a 1/32 in. ID and a 1/16 in. OD.  On the plans, I included the McMaster-Carr part number.  I also added a stop below the joiner, which is noted on the plans.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWkp0dFpzUEJMVTQ/view?usp=sharing

I removed the older version of the Bird of Prey 18 plan from my Google Drive.  I switched to this tubing after construction of the initial four versions of the Bird of Prey 18 (two for me, one for Phil, and one for Tom), because it was a tight fit to insert the wing spars into the old joiner made from the wire insulation.  Also, the new material is stiffer than the wire insulation, so it hold the dihedral angle better over time.  The four initial versions of the Bird of Prey 18 were upgraded and there was no change in performance.  The tubing is the same type of material that I use on the Bird of Prey 36 and 48.  Very happy it is made in this very small diameter.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: New Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle Underway (Update)
Post by: Doug S on February 01, 2017, 07:07 AM
Making some more progress on Tom's Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle.  The following picture shows the panels are sewn together.  Next step is to hem the edges.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - Panels Sewn Together
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMWQ1M0lURTNNTFk)


Title: Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle (Finished)
Post by: Doug S on February 27, 2017, 08:27 AM
And now there are four.  Finished the Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle for Tom White.  The following provides a picture of the finished kite hanging in my home and a picture of a happy Tom White holding his new glider kite.

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - Finished
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNTk5LURqZDdUYnc)

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle - Tom White with his new Kite
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFXzhYVlJfVzZOcHc)

I have a simple pattern version of the Bird of Prey 76 in process for myself and Scott Skinner.  Also working on a prototype for a new swept forward wing glider kite.

Yours in kiting,

Doug




Title: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development
Post by: Doug S on March 03, 2017, 10:27 AM
I have been intrigued by canards and swept forward wings since the 1970s.  In the 1970s, a few of us in my model airplane club built canard control line model airplanes as an experiment.  Mine had a swept forward anhedral main wing that looked cool and flew well for its size.  During 2010, I began experimenting with single line glider kites, due to the low wind conditions in northwestern New Jersey.  Based on my experience with my canard model airplane and the NASA X-29 that was evaluated from 1984 to 1992, I started exploring canards and swept forward wings on single line glider kites in 2012.

My first swept forward wing glider kite was a canard, with a swept forward main wing.  It was designed in the spring of 2012 and named the Arrow, due to the color panel layout I selected that gave the appearance of a north arrow on a survey map.  The Arrow required a custom joiner to allow the wing spars to angle forward.  After the Arrow, I designed a second canard in the spring of 2013 to maximize the area of the front and rear wings to reduce the wing loading, which I called the Rapere.  The Rapere had a conventionally shaped main wing with a straight wing spar.  What I found with canard glider kites is the angle between the canard wing and the rear main wing requires adjustment, if one changes the balance point and/or the camber in the main rear wing.  Also, the canards were very sensitive to changes in wind speed and flight speed.  My single line canard glider kites flew well in light wind conditions.

My first single wing swept forward wing glider kite was the Bird of Prey, which was developed in the fall of 2013.  I was intrigued by the layout of the NASA X-29 and the fiction based XT-908 Drone used in the 2013 Robocop 2 movie, which were the motivation for development of the Bird of Prey.  The Bird of Prey wing layout was based on the rear main wing of my Arrow canard glider kite.  Due to the name I selected and the shape of this glider kite, some may think my Bird of Prey was based on the Star Trek Klingon Bird-of-Prey, but is wasn’t.  In the 1990s, I used predator birds as my naming convention for my various competition dual line stunt kites:  Falcon, Talon, Raptor and Bird of Prey.  I decided to continue with this naming convention for several of my single line glider kites.  Since 2010, I have designed and built several conventional swept back wing glider kites named the Osprey, Eagle, Falcon, Hawk and Swift.  Since the Bird of Prey looks like a bird in flight with its wings bent forward for landing, the name was a perfect match.  Regarding my naming convention, the number after the Bird of Prey name is the wing span of the glider in inches, when assembled.  This allows for easy identification of the glider kite size.

The concern with swept forward wings on full size aircraft is aeroelastic divergence, where the aerodynamic lift of the wing produces a twisting force that rotates the wing leading edge upward, which can quickly lead to structural failure.  On the NASA X-29, anisotropic elastic coupling between bending and twisting of the carbon fiber composite material was used to construct the rear main wing to address this aeroelastic effect.  Since my glider kites use a sheet of fabric for the wing, there is no restriction for placement of the wing spars, so I moved the wing spars to the leading edge.  The Bird of Prey also has wing tips with a measurable amount of chord.  For each wing tip, a curved batten is used to tension the wing tip and trailing edge of the wing, which allows the trailing edge of the wing to twist upward under aerodynamic loads.  These two construction features of the Bird of Prey resolve the aeroelastic effect.  The performance of the Bird of Prey glider kites were far better than expected, with very long flat glides, great maneuverability and responsiveness to line commands, when compared to conventional swept back wing and canard glider kites.  The Bird of Prey 36 and 36M became my go to single line glider kite for Indoor Single Line Ballet Competitions.

With the help of Mike Dallmer of the South Jersey Kite Flyers (SJKF) and Daniel Prentice with the American Kitefliers Association (AKA), I was able to obtain approval to fly indoors at my town’s school on a weekly basis.  This new indoor practice venue allows me to fine tune my indoor glider kites and practice potential indoor routines.  With the weekly practice sessions and the invitation to fly at National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC on March 25, 2017, I was inspired to explore a new glider kite layout.  In late February 2017, I started sketching a new swept forward wing layout, which would be more extreme than the Bird of Prey.  I use AutoCAD to develop a conceptual design for my glider kites.  I then import the shape of the kite into Airplane CG Calculator (CGCalc_1.05_03.xlms, January 23, 2011), developed by Dr. Daniel T. Prosser.  This program provides me with the aerodynamic attributes of the design and helps me determine the initial location for the balance point.  I use AutoCAD to complete the design and make full size templates for construction.

For the new swept forward wing glider kite, I started with the outline of the NASA X-29 rear main wing, which has an extreme forward sweep.  The shape of the NASA X-29 rear main wing would allow me to see how a glider kite performs with this extreme amount of forward wing sweep.  The forward sweep of the X-29 rear main wing is 30 degrees for the leading edge and 45 degrees for the trailing edge.  I drafted the outline of the X-29 rear main wing and then became very creative with what it would look like as a flying wing.  For this experimental prototype, I named it the “X-Wing” in recognition of the NASA X-29.  The X-Wing has 37 percent more wing area than the Bird of Prey with the same wing span.  For the prototype, a wing span of 36 inches was selected, which would allow me to compare this prototype to my contest proven Bird of Prey 36 and 36M.  The X-Wing was constructed like the Bird of Prey 36M, with three different panels of Cuben fabric.  Like my Bird of Prey, the "M" indicates multiple panels.  The wing loading for the X-Wing 36M is the same as the Bird of Prey 36M, so weight would not be a factor in the evaluation between these two kites.

I will provide updates regarding development of this new swept forward wing kite.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQTNwTHFJbTNXRzQ)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 03, 2017, 01:20 PM
no overlaying of Viper and BoP to see the differences yet? interesting Doug!!!!


Title: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development
Post by: Doug S on March 03, 2017, 02:51 PM
The test flights indicate the X-Wing 36M is a pleasure to fly.  It is very stable, which I attribute to the long center and the forward wing sweep.  It appears the forward wing sweep provides stability like traditional kites with swept back wings.  The amount of forward wing sweep and the wider wing tips would not allow the wing spars to tension the trailing edge of the wing as desired, where the trailing edge would move upward by 18 degrees as compared to 13 degrees for the Bird of Prey.  The turn for the X-Wing 36M was flat and graceful, which I attribute to the extreme forward sweep of the wing and the vertical movement of the trailing edge.  When comparing the Bird of Prey 36M to the X-Wing 36M, the Bird of Prey 36M is more responsive and reacts instantly to flying line input, but will telegraph poor line commands.  The Bird of Prey 36M also can be flown more aggressively.

Based on the positive flight characteristic X-Wing 36M, my next step was design a prototype that would blend the positive flight characteristics of the Bird of Prey 36M and the X-Wing 36M.  Beginning with the X-Wing layout, the forward wing sweep and the wing tip chord were reduced so the trailing edge could to be tension more like the Bird of Prey.  The center length was reduced to allow the glider kite to be more responsive.  This prototype also was constructed like the Bird of Prey 36M, with three different panels of Cuben fabric.  Based on the shape and panel layout, I altered my naming convention away from predator birds and selected the name "Viper", because the wing shape and associated panels look like a "V".  Also, Viper was the call sign for the top teaching pilot in the 1986 movie Top Gun.  The Viper has 10 percent more wing area than the Bird of Prey with the same wing span.  The wing loading for the Viper 36M is the same as the Bird of Prey 36M, so weight would not be a factor in the evaluation between these two kites.

The following provides the comparison between the Bird of Prey (Blue Outline), the X-Wing (Red Outline) and the new Viper (Black Outline).  You can clearly see the differences.

I will provide updates regarding development of this new swept forward wing kite.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFTDNVU3BDVTduelU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on March 03, 2017, 06:15 PM
Whoa......... That is neat... Cannot wait to see one in real life!!!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on March 04, 2017, 01:47 PM
Cool. The change  in aspect ratio should make it a very different kite.

Looking forward to hearing what it's like.

Mike


Title: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development - Viper
Post by: Doug S on March 05, 2017, 07:18 AM
The initial test flights indicate the Viper 36M is a dream to fly.  It combines the excellent performance characteristics of the Bird of Prey with the more forgiving characteristics of the X-Wing.  The Viper 36M climbs, glides and turns like the Bird of Prey 36M.  The initial test flights indicate the glide slope for the Viper 36M is flatter and longer than the Bird of Prey 36M, which is an unexpected and pleasant surprise for this new design.  I will continue to evaluate the performance of the Viper 36M, as compared to my Bird of Prey 36M.  The Viper 36M may become my new go to single line glider kite for Indoor Single Line Ballet Competitions.

In the future, I may build other versions of the Viper, such as a smaller version like my Bird of Prey 18, and larger more complex and colorful versions using my fighter aircraft layout.  I used prior versions of this fighter aircraft layout on my Bird of Prey 48, 62 and 96.  The color layout will be a further enhancement, using some of the attributes found on the Air Force F-16 Thunderbirds Demonstration Team.

Yours in kiting,

Douglas K. Stout

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaFQtbzQybmtmTTg)


Title: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development - Viper Update
Post by: Doug S on March 17, 2017, 07:11 AM
Had the opportunity to fly the Viper last night at my new indoor practice venue.  The initial balance point for the Viper 36M was a little nose heavy, which was fine for the initial test flights outdoors in light wind.  I used 1/4 inch lengths of the nose weight tubing and found the sweet spot for the glide.  Once that was done, I used the Bird of Prey 36M and Viper 36M to run through my various indoor routines, switching to the Viper 36M for the balance of the evening.  After more than an hour of indoor flight time on the Viper 36M, several positive performance characteristics became very apparent.  The Viper is more forgiving then the Bird of Prey when one makes a mistake with line commands.  This is very good for my old hands.  It recovers from a stall very gracefully, loosing very little altitude.  The climb has a wide speed range, where the low end can be flown very slowly and controlled.  The glide is flatter and longer then the Bird of Prey 36M, which was an unexpected and very pleasant surprise.  Also, the glide speed is slightly slower then the Bird of Prey 36M.  Since the Viper 36M wing loading is the same as the Bird of Prey 36M, I attribute these positive performance characteristics to the longer center and the additional forward sweep of the wing.  Currently I am building a second Viper 36M.

After last night, the Viper 36M may become my new single line glider kite for indoor ballet competitions, which was the desired outcome in developing a new design.  At this time, the two Viper 36Ms will augment my fleet of Bird of Prey glider kites, to be used by myself for indoor demonstrations and competitions.  During these activities, I will have other skilled indoor kite flyers evaluate the Viper 36M to confirm my observations.  After I complete this evaluation process, I will determine what to do with this new design regarding availability to others.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development - Viper Update
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2017, 09:36 AM
Based on the flight performance of the first Viper 36M, I built a second one with a white nose.  The following picture shows this Viper 36M next to a Bird of Prey 36M, so you can see the difference in the shape of the sail and panel layout.

Yours in kiting,

Doug 

Viper 36M (Left), Bird of Prey 36M (Right), Both Under Construction
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZWwzRVMxemJqaEE)


Title: Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC - March 25 2017
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2017, 09:56 AM
I had the opportunity to perform with members of the Wings of Washington (WOW) kite club throughout the day on March 25, 2017, at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC.  Thank you to the members of WOW for allowing me to attend and perform.  For those of you who use Facebook, the following link provides pictures taken by Andrew Albosta, who is a member of WOW and a professional photographer.

Andrew’s Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/albosta. (https://www.facebook.com/albosta.)
Andrew also posted a number of the pictures at:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/bosta/albums/72157678579000043 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bosta/albums/72157678579000043)

Flying at the NASM is quite different then flying at our typical indoor venues for competition, where usually the only limitations are the size of the indoor venue.  At the NASM, the HVAC system is on and creating unique air currents.  Also, there are hanging exhibits one needs to fly around.  In the west end of the first floor where we were performing the indoor demonstrations, there were numerous drones of various sizes on display.  The lowest hanging drone was the X-45A, where the center of this drone was only 15 ft. 8 in. from the floor (I measured the distance with my laser ruler).  It also had a hatch door open and hanging down.  Due to the unique air currents in the demonstration area, I test flew my Bird of Prey 36M and my new Viper 36M when we arrived, and selected the Viper.  The Viper allowed me to power through the air currents and fly vertically between the drones along a narrow corridor.  This was a priceless experience for me, considering the pedigree for my swept forward wing glider kites is the X-29, and I was flying under and around an X-Series cousin, the X-45A.  I look forward to the possibility of flying at the NASM in the future.

The following provides a picture me flying the Viper 36M during one of my demonstration performances.  The picture was taken by Andrew Albosta.  Thank you Andrew for sharing this picture.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMkFrSDZReW1rOEk)


Title: Mother Brook Art & Community Center, Dedham, MA - Indoor Kite Flying - 4/1/17
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2017, 10:34 AM
For those of us who live in the northeastern USA, this coming Saturday night will be Indoor Kite Flying at the Mother Brook Art & Community Center, in Dedham, MA.  The time is 6 to 9 pm.  All are welcome.  Archie Stewart is running the event and the following provides Archie's Facebook post for this event:  https://www.facebook.com/archie.stewart.50?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/archie.stewart.50?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf)

I plan on attending to fly at this great indoor venue, located southwest of Boston, MA.  I will have two of my new Viper 36Ms with me, along with my variety of Bird of Prey glider kites.  Hope you can make it.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: New Single Line Glider Kite Under Development - Viper Update
Post by: coop on March 27, 2017, 11:31 AM
Based on the flight performance of the first Viper 36M, I built a second one with a white nose.  The following picture shows this Viper 36M next to a Bird of Prey 36M, so you can see the difference in the shape of the sail and panel layout.

Yours in kiting,

Doug 

Viper 36M (Left), Bird of Prey 36M (Right), Both Under Construction
([url]http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZWwzRVMxemJqaEE[/url])




Hmm. Would that be my Bird of Prey? ;D


Title: Bird of Prey 36M
Post by: Doug S on March 27, 2017, 11:51 AM
Coop,

Yes that is your Bird of Prey 36M on the right, which I finished on Sunday.  It will be test flown this coming Wednesday night at my indoor practice venue, then in the mail to you.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coop on March 27, 2017, 01:32 PM
Sweet! I look forward to it!
We have an indoor event on the 21st of April.  :)


Title: Videos from Indoor Kite Fly at the MBA&CC in Dedham MA
Post by: Doug S on April 05, 2017, 07:11 PM
In the evening on April 1, 2017, I was fortunate to attend the Indoor Kite Fly at the Mother Brook Art & Community Center (MBA&CC), in Dedham MA.  Thank you to Kites Over New England (KONE) for sponsoring the room and to Archie Stewart for running this great indoor kite fly.  About a dozen of us attended and enjoyed flying under great indoor conditions. It was great seeing my northeastern kite flying friends, who I haven't seen since the LBI, NJ event last October 2016.  As part of this event, we introduced a newer kite flyer, Christine, to indoor kite flying, where she had a blast.  We also were able to evaluate my new Viper 36M glider kite under ideal indoor flying conditions.  My evaluation of the Viper is complete.  The Viper 36M has been vetted under clean and turbulent indoor air conditions, and it is a keeper.  The Viper 36M will augment my Bird of Prey glider kites for my indoor routines.  The following video shows two of us having fun flying my two Viper 36Ms, where the sound track ties the video together.  Archie, thank you for the video.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFbV9zU0NBbmpEWTg/view?usp=sharing

Prior to the beginning of the event, Archie Stewart allowed me to run through a few of my indoor routines.  Christine was there early and captured a partial video of me flying to Amazing Grace by the Celtic Woman Group. Christine, thank you for the video.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFT3VuUk9qa1hfRG8/view?usp=sharing

I look forward to the next indoor kite fly at MBA&CC. Hope to see you there.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Viper - Single Line Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 06, 2017, 08:03 AM
As indicated in my prior post, I have completed my evaluation of new single line swept forward wing glider kite called the Viper.  For the evaluation, I used my Bird of Preys as my point of reference.  The evaluation took place under clean indoor air, and in varying air currents and turbulent conditions at several indoor venues.  The evaluation was performed by myself and several other gifted indoor kite flyers in the northeast, along with a new indoor kite flyer.

To date, I have built and evaluated three Vipers.  Two of the Vipers have a 36-inch wing span and weigh 9 grams (Viper 36M).  One Viper has an 18-inch wing span and weighs 1.4 grams.  The wing loading for the Vipers is the same as their Bird of Prey counterparts, so weight was not a factor in the evaluation process.  The evaluation focused on the Viper 36M, since that is the size one would use for indoor competitions and demonstrations.

Regarding performance, The Viper 36M has the following positive flight characteristics, when compared to the Bird of Prey 36M:

-   Slightly slower glide speed with little to no tension on the flying line.
-   Longer and flatter glide with little to no tension on the flying line, which initially was hard to believe, since the Bird of Prey 36M glide is very long and flat.
-   Same higher climb speed as the Bird of Prey 36M, during a steady and fast pull of the flying line.
-   Can be flow very slowly on a climb, without stalling and transiting into a glide.  This one was hard to believe at first, but is a joy to use during my indoor routines.
-   Very forgiving and gentle recovery from a stall.  I now us this at the end of my routines leading into a catch at the end of music.
-   More stable and forgiving to unintended line commands.  We all step on our flying line on occasion, and this one is a life saver.
-   Can be flown further from the flyer during glides and various maneuvers as the result of aggressive line commands.  This allows my routines to extend and explore the boundaries of larger indoor venues.

Regarding the Viper 18, it’s a playful little glider kite for small indoor areas, and exhibits the same attributes as its bigger brother, when compared to the Bird of Prey 18.  Both 18s are fun to fly.

I love how my Bird of Prey and Viper both fly, but for a venue with any air currents, the Viper is now my first choice.  For those of us who have flown dual line stunt kites in the past, the Bird of Prey is like a trick kite that can be flown smoothly and precisely, if one is smooth and attentive to the line commands.  The Viper is like a team precision kite, which fly’s smoothly and can perform more aggressive maneuvers with the right line commands.  When a new indoor kite flyer flew this past Saturday evening, they tried my various indoor glider kites and several other indoor kites provided by other attending kite flyers.  To my pleasant surprise, the new indoor kite flyer kept going back to flying my Viper 36M, and became quite proficient with it by the end of the evening.

I am in the process of having aluminum templates made for the Viper 36M and Viper 18, so I can build them for other glider kite enthuses.  Through the evaluation process that also included my X-Wing glider kite I developed before the Viper, I have more of an appreciation for the positive attributes of swept forward wings and what makes them work so well.  Based on this new knowledge and in the future, I will expand my glider kite presentation for kiting seminars.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Viper 36M - Being flown by Doug Stout at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC on March 25, 2017
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFMkFrSDZReW1rOEk)

Viper 36M - Front View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFaFQtbzQybmtmTTg)

Viper 18 - Front View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQU5CYzhnQ0JQMUE)

Viper 18 - Right Side View
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWFRQWnRQS0pScW8)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: nckiter on April 06, 2017, 10:07 AM
Hi Doug, been reading your reports with interest, thank you so much for sharing your journey! Do you think you will be developing the Viper into any of the larger platforms, say 60 - 96"?


Title: Viper - Single Line Swept Forward Wing Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 06, 2017, 11:57 AM
nckiter,

Great question and you are a mind reader!

During my development process for the Viper, I always sketch out a panel layout to see how it would look in a larger size, which helps me refine the shape of the glider kite.  For the indoor contest version, I reduce the number of panels down to three, while keeping the personality of the more detailed panel layout.

Before exploring the next size, I wanted to have other gifted indoor kite flyers try out the Viper 36M this past weekend, to see if they were seeing the same positive performance characteristics I was experiencing.  The positive reaction to the Viper 36M this weekend was much more than I expected, especially by a new indoor kite flyer.  The Viper 36M also surprised many when we flew demonstration performances at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington, DC on March 25, 2017.  The NASM HVAC system was on and getting stronger as the temperatures hit the 80s outside on that day.  The air currents were very entertaining during my five difference performances over the course of the day.  I was able to power this light weight 9-gram Viper 36M through the crazy air currents, while others were struggling and limited to where they could fly in our west area performance location, under the drone exhibit.  The Viper made me look really good!  As a point of reference, the Bird of Prey loves clean air and performs beautify under those conditions, but does not like crazy air currents.  It's my canary for bad air.

To answer your question, I will explore a limited number of different sizes, based on the sizes that worked the best for my Bird of Prey glider kites.  The second size was the 18, which is a pisser to fly.  The next size will have a wing span around 76 inches, which is similar to my Bird of Prey 76.  The panel layout will be a refinement of the fighter plane layout I used on my Bird of Prey 48, 62 and 96, with many panels and RWB color accents from the Air Force Thunderbirds.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Viper Single Line Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 14, 2017, 06:37 AM
The following provides my conceptual layout for a larger version of the Viper, using my fighter plane layout with patriotic accent colors.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcWR5SVd3Q192SzA)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: HK-guy on April 20, 2017, 05:56 PM
Thank you Mr. Doug Stout. Last night I had my first glider kite flying experience.

At first I just want a quick test on this Hawk24 polybag dummy kite at the midnight downstair of my apartment. However I ended up flying it 5 hours and back home with a sun rise. It's a wonderful night.

I never fly a glider before. But I watch quite alot on youtube.
Honestly I fly this Hawk quite well within an hour, because it's so slow so smooth and glide far and so forgiveing.
I'm in love with this dummy kite because it's performance totally out of my expectation. After 4 hours "can't stop" playing. I can fly it only one hand and use the other hand to take the below movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvv0p3TejeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvv0p3TejeI)

I really LOVE it and I'm now hate to call it a dummy. This is my first regular perfect glider kite.

The first mind pop in my head was the donation. Not much but I've already did it.
I can't wait to build the BOP24. Thank you doug all your kindly shares and tons of treasure knowledge.

Adam




[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: HK-guy on April 20, 2017, 06:13 PM
Oh yes forget to tell. The Young Heart is my song of April!! I was loop playing this song when I built the Hawk.  :)


Title: Hawk Glider Kite
Post by: Doug S on April 21, 2017, 06:20 AM
Adam,

Thank you for your post, kind words and I am happy you are enjoying your Hawk 24.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: HK-guy on April 30, 2017, 11:44 AM
Just had the test flight of the BOP24. Have a quite different characteristic with the Hawk, very sensitive and weak climbing ability.
I did some tuning here and there but seems the main problem is the centre-cross too soft to hold the dihedral. The dihedral line just hold the dihedral not less then 10 degree but can't hold the dihedral flap to a bigger angle. The Hawk which have a spreader to hold the dihedral but not the same case in BOP. All the works goes to the stiffness of the centre-cross.
Now the normal flat glide will cause the wing flap to a quite big dihedral angle (around 15, the line is loose). When climbing sometimes goes to 30-40....
I think I have to find a suitable hard tube instead of the electric cord shell I used now.


Title: Bird of Prey 24 - Suggestions for HK-guy
Post by: Doug S on April 30, 2017, 02:18 PM
HK-guy

The ultra-light Bird of Prey 18, 24, 36 and 48s were designed around Cuben fabric, with a sail density of 0.34 oz./sq.yd.  The Cuben fabric is stiff for it's very light weight.  If you are using a fabric that is more flexible, that may be part of the problem.  The wire insulation I have used without a problem on more than 20 Bird of Prey 24s has an OD of 0.085 inches, where the inner copper wire has an OD of 0.041 inches.  The insulation without the wire is very stiff.  For my Bird of Prey 18 and Viper 18, I use Teflon PTFE tubing, which is very stiff for its thin wall.

Please make sure you glued the stops to the wings spars, because they can move.  Also make sure you are using the battens.  Without the battens, you are wasting your time.  The only Bird of Prey that doesn't use battens is the Bird of Prey 18, due to the stiffness of the Cuben fabric.

Once you have the correct joiner material, install it on the center spine and bend it forward and slightly upward to preset the angle.  Install the wing spars and set the initial dihedral angle.  Make sure the center joiner is in the right location, so the wing spars have an slight "S" curve to them, with a taught sail.  If the center joiner is a little to close to the nose, the trailing edge of the sail will become loose.  If the center joiner is a little to close to the tail, the sail will become loose under the wing spars.  The wing spars should be in the center of the wing spar sleeve, where they enter the wing spar sleeve.  The wing spars will touch the leading edge of the wing spar sleeve once they are near the pockets for the battens.  After you set the initial dihedral angle, hang the Bird of Prey 24 by its nose and let it hang over night.  This will allow the center joiner angle to set.  The next day, recheck the dihedral angle and adjust as necessary.  Also recheck the location of the center joiner to obtain the desired sail tension.  Check the balance and adjust as necessary.

The Bird of Prey 24 is very responsive to line commands and air currents, which makes it fun to fly.  I would initially fly your Bird of Prey 24 in calm conditions, and inside if possible.  This will allow you to get use to this design.  All of the Bird of Preys have long flat glides.  To help you made the transition to the your Bird of Pure 24, move the bridle loop back 1/8 inches.  Once you get use to it, slide it back forward.   All of the Bird of Preys have light line tension, when compared to swept back wing glider kites.  Most likely you were pulling too hard on the flying line, so you could feel the same tension on the flying line like the Hawk 24.  Please note it's just a gentle light touch on the flying line.  You will be moving more flying line than you would with conventional swept back wing glider kites, because the Bird of Prey glider kites will glide over a much longer distance.

I hope the above helps you get your Bird of Prey 24 flying as designed.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: HK-guy on April 30, 2017, 04:33 PM
Thank you so much for the quick reply Doug.

I did almost every tuning you mentioned. Except I use polyfilm insteal of Cuben. It is lighter and softer then Cuben but I tested it's ok "non-stretch" under such light-pressure no-wind gliding.
And because I can't get the smaller spar as spec for the battens, I used a 0.5mm instead of 0.01in bar. the whole wing quite flat no loose, just the trailing edge will have quite alot wash out because the softness of the polyfilm. The same case happen on the Hawk but didn't get much problem for smooth glide.

And I checked. The wing spars didn't have an "S" curve. No matter how I adjust the centre cross position. It is because it's really not strong enough. It just bend to fit the wing spar angle so didn't creat that S curve. I must find a correct stiffness tube to replace it.

The initial dihedral angle also no problem. I did everything you mentioned to let it settle and fix in 10 degree when without pressure (as the plan bottom left diagram 4 3/16") .
As my last post said, initial dihedral angle no problem. However, the only mechanism to prevent the dihedral become bigger (when the wings under pressure and flap up) is the centre-cross, not the line. The line do nothing to prevent the wing flap up.
I must find an exactly correct striffness tube for this centre-cross. If a tube too soft, it's just like a hinge. If a tube too stiff, it may not flexible enough to let the wing dihedral have a little dynamic flexibility. So the correct striffness of this centre cross tube is quite important I think.

About the bridle adjustment. I have pigtail with loop on it every 0.5cm on bridle, dihedral line, the "T" line on the Hawk back and also the spreader tension line. And I use Blu-Tack for nose weight, L/R wing balancing. For easier adjustment.

And yes the BOP is really responsive to line commands and air currents! And also it have much less pull then the Hawk. This also cause some flying line managment failure on me. Because the less pull so small it even can't carry the line. I have to give a "quick supply" for line when it glide away. Sometimes I can't give line fast enough then I run to follow the Bird.  :)


Title: 27th Annual Kite Day in the Park, Easton, PA - May 6, 2017
Post by: Doug S on May 02, 2017, 09:08 AM
The following provides the information for the 27th Annual "Kite Day in the Park", held at the Louise W. Moore Park in Easton, PA on Saturday, May 6, 2017.  I have been attending and helping out for the last several years.  Hosted and run by great people for a good cause, by introducing kiting to the attending families.  Great field for me to play with my numerous glider kites.  Hope to see you there.  The following provides the link to the Pocono Kite Symphony website, which includes the following flyer for this event:  http://poconokitesymphony.com/ (http://poconokitesymphony.com/)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFb3hHM1dYc0hyaUE)


Title: Bird of Prey 76
Post by: Doug S on May 13, 2017, 09:55 AM
Finally finished the two Bird of Prey 76s, with the less complex layout.  The following provides two pictures for your viewing pleasure.  The shades of blue version is for Scott Skinner, which is on its way to Colorado.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 - Red, White and Blue version for Doug Stout.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYko2NTl2bnItWVk)

Bird of Prey 76 - Shades of Blue version for Scott Skinner.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFX29ONFd2U0hNa1k)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on May 13, 2017, 03:24 PM
Love the blues!!!


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: jaydub on May 13, 2017, 04:32 PM
Love the blues!!!

Seconded.


Title: Development of Swept Forward Wing Glider Kites and the Viper 36M
Post by: Doug S on May 15, 2017, 12:32 PM
For your information, an article regarding my development of swept forward glider kites will be published in the next edition of AKA Kiting.  It will include the plans for my Viper 36M.  Once this issue of Kiting is released, I will post the link for the Viper 36M plans.

Sincerely,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Viper 36M Single Line Glider Kite - Plans and Video
Post by: Doug S on May 26, 2017, 06:37 AM
The following link provides access to my folder with the plans for the Viper 36M.  If you choose to download the plans, please made a contribution to this great forum! 

Viper 36M Plans
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFdW95YVJUTkZSYlE?usp=sharing

To show you how the Viper 36M performs, the following link provides access to a video of me flying the Viper 36M at my local indoor venue.  During the filming, the HVAC system was on, which was gently pushing the air downward.   The Viper 36M cut through this downward air without a problem.

Viper 36M Video
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSVpGdW1FRFhrTDg/view?usp=sharing

I will be attending the Sky Art Kite Festival at Liberty State Park in Jersey City, NJ on Saturday May 27, 2017.  I also will be attending the Wildwood International Kite Festival in Wildwood, NJ on Monday May 29, 2017 for the Indoor Competition, where I will be flying my Viper 36M.  If you can make either of these events, it would be great to see you there.

For those of us living in the USA, may you and your family have a great Memorial Day Weekend!

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: coogee on May 28, 2017, 02:14 AM
Nice flying spot Doug!

Kite looks good.

Mike


Title: Sky Art Kite Festival - Pictures
Post by: Doug S on May 30, 2017, 02:52 PM
On Saturday May 27, 2017, I attended and performed demonstrations at the Sky Art Kite Festival.  The festival was held at Liberty State Park in Jersey City, NJ on May 27 and 28, 2017.  A big thank you to Kurtis Jones for setting up and running this festival, and all the other kite flyers who attended and helped out.  The following provides some pictures from Saturday at the festival, for your enjoyment.  Kurtis also posted a number of pictures from both days of the event on his Facebook Page.

Yours in kiting,

Doug

Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle, Statue of Liberty in the background - Picture by Scott Weider.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRElqRzExaHAwMUE)


Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle with me on the flying line, Statue of Liberty in the background - Picture by Scott Weider.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFekRuT3pPd29oOWc)


Raptor-MF Dual Line 8-Foot Stunt Kite with a 100 Foot Tail - I made this stunt kite in 1996.
At the request of Kurtis Jones, I opened the festival on Saturday with this performance.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFeTBGcWJ6MHBiT1k)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFRFhRMHNscmRRWUE)


Raptor-MF and Raptor-F Dual Line 8-Foot Stunt Kites in the Pit Area.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ19jNXJ2bUdNbHM)


A few pictures from Saturday.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFYlV4Vy1GclN4Mk0)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNzZYRzBsTkVZRkE)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFNk02ZFk2ZXdLdXM)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFS1NxNWw1Wmlzdkk)

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFVHRQMlVqaUxhakU)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: oldflyer on May 31, 2017, 03:13 AM
Superb photos! Thanks for sharing them!  :)


Title: Bird of Prey 36, 36B and 36M Updated Plans
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2017, 07:35 AM
Wing Spar Sleeve – New Reinforcement

The following link provides access to my Google Drive folder, which contains the updated plans for the Bird of Prey 36, 36B and 36M.  When I assembled one of my Bird of Prey 36Ms for a recent festival, I noticed a small tear in the Cuben fabric where the wing spar enters the wing spar pocket.  It appears with the last batch of white Cuben fabric, the fabric is a little more fragile than the old orange Cuben fabric, especially where the fibers are spaced apart.  To resolve this weak point, I modified the reinforcement in this area to also include the entire opening of the wing spar sleeve, as indicated in the attached plans.  The reinforcement is added to this area of the wing, before you fold over and bond the wing spar sleeve pocket, so the reinforcement is on the inside of the wing spar sleeve at the opening.  For mine with the tear, I will add a smaller version of this reinforcement to the external back side of the wing spar sleeve at the opening.  On the versions of the Bird of Prey made from PC31, the wing spar pocket is folder over and bonded at the entrance to the wing spar sleeve.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFcDBrcm8tQXRSdTg?usp=sharing

Tail Pocket - Repair

On the Bird of Prey 36s made from Cuben fabric, a few of us have had the center spine work its way through the tail reinforcement/pocket.  This is due to the pressure the wing spars place on the narrow diameter center spine and in turn the pocket, when this glider kite is assembled.  Along the horizontal portion of the pocket, I was using three hand stitches, one in the center and one on each side.  To prevent the pesky center spine from escaping through the tail pocket, I added an extra hand stitch between the center and the side, on each side of the pocket.  It is one loop that is tied it off on the back side of the kite with a surgical knot.  Please check your glider kite to see if you are having this issue, where the sail appears to be loose along the center spine and the wing spars are not tensioning the sail correctly.  If you have this issue with one of my builds or one of your own, please make this very easy repair.  I did this upgrade on all of my Bird of Prey 36s.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Doug Stout's Bird of Prey and Viper Glider Kites - New Flyer
Post by: Doug S on June 01, 2017, 01:38 PM
The following link provides access to the new flyer for my Bird of Prey and Viper Glider Kites.  A picture of the flyer is attached below.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQzQ5RTB1Q2ZhUVk?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bwj9y_lTaMmFQzQ5RTB1Q2ZhUVk?usp=sharing)

Yours in kiting,

Doug

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFZ0tFbnhpdWN4b0k)


Title: Re: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)
Post by: thief on June 07, 2017, 10:41 AM
not certain how it was called the 1st Annual festival..but some good shots of Doug S and his BoP here https://youtu.be/9fX9rRPS_zo?t=31


Title: Sky Art Kite Festival, Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ - May 27-28, 2017
Post by: Doug S on June 07, 2017, 02:29 PM
Thief,

Thank you for share the link.  It looks like Kurtis spliced together the various pictures Scott Weider shot, while Scott had me fly back and forth, and low to the ground with my Bird of Prey 76 Patriotic Eagle and the Statue of Liberty in the background.  It was a great day of kite flying!

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Complete Glider Kites Since My Last Post
Post by: Doug S on September 14, 2017, 03:06 PM
Sorry I haven't posted in a while.  It's been a busy summer with family and friends.  Saw my son, Steve, perform with the band Lifehouse in Philidelphia PA, Boston MA and Asbury Park NJ, while they were co-headlining with Switchfoot during their "Looking for Summer Tour."  Steve is the lead guitarist/backup singer for Lifehouse.  For us, it was the most memorable week of our summer!

Built a few glider kites for myself and others since my last post.  I also finished the four René Maier Heart Kites (Red, Blue, White and Purple) I started awhile ago, which fly great as a single or in a stack.

The following provides some of the more interesting glider kites I recently finished.

Bird of Prey 48 for Mike Klaiber - Very Colorful
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWlRGbjlFS0xLSzg)

Bird of Prey 76 for Peter Dolphin - All White with a Black Nose - Panels are a combination of my Bird of Prey 76 and my Bird of Prey 76 PE
Peter's Bird of Prey 76 also has three white 15 foot long, 1 inch wide tails, which attach at the wing tips and tail.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFSnRkRFZvV29haUU)

Since the Wildwood, NJ Kite Festival, I have been tinkering with a new Indoor Glider Kite, which is between the Bird of Prey and the Viper.  This new glider kite is called the Raptor.  I'm recycling my favorite kite names from my 1990s stunt kite designs.  I was looking for the smooth stability of the Viper 36M with the quick responsiveness of the Bird of Prey 36M.  Currently in the evaluation phase, but the Raptor looks to be a keeper and I may use it at the AKA Nationals in October.  So far I have built an 18 and two 36Ms.

Bird of Prey 18 (Bottom Center), Viper 18 (Upper Left and Raptor 18 (Upper Right) - My Family Room Glider Kite Air Force
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFWkQyWjU3cGxFR2s)

Viper 36Ms - Black Nose (Left) and White Nose (Right) Versions
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0Bwj9y_lTaMmFN0dVLUszcXFkcGM)

Yours in kiting,

Doug