GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Quad Line Kites (aka "the dark side") => Topic started by: alleykat on June 02, 2009, 12:02 PM



Title: Need little help
Post by: alleykat on June 02, 2009, 12:02 PM
OK as the hands of time turn the knees do not work as well. I have seen where people make refernce to swapping to quads from dual lines to help with the problem.

My question is: Is this a valid option for flying and if so which of the Rev B  Series is the prefernce and why? (Standard vs. Vented)

I am thinking of trying to find a complete B series set up to trade for with some of the dual lines I have in the bag.

Thanks for the input  ;D :) :-\


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: kiten00b on June 02, 2009, 12:16 PM
Quads can be less demanding physically, especially if you are switching from slack line trick kites.
As long as you have a reasonably steady breeze, you can fly a Quad from a lawn chair.
The nice thing about the B Series is it comes with 2 frames and you can swap them in < 1 minute to extend the wind range.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Bob D on June 03, 2009, 04:24 AM
I got a mid vent with race rods last fall. I read on the Rev forum that it can go to about 8 mph and that's probably true from what I've found. The partial venting lets it go to the low teens without any trouble. Another bonus is that the partial venting will smooth out any bumps in the wind. I also have the fully vented for higher wind - mid teens mostly because I don't like high wind.

The standard with race rods will probably go pretty low. I don't have one because I fly duals when it's below 9 mph.

Check out the Rev forum for more information. I had a question about what kind of Rev to buy and what the differences were between the different Revs and the posting was made a sticky.

The B Series is a really nice smooth flier and you'll enjoy it!


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: lylenc on June 03, 2009, 06:33 AM
Whether quad or dual line flying, the "best kite" depends on your personal preferences. Any of the 1.5 type sails are a good place to start in quads. The B-Series offers a lot of flexibility in flying options, but like everything else, there are trade-offs.

Finesse B:
2 & 3-wrap rods expand the wind range
the rod flex provides for more precision and dampens inputs (good or bad)
the sail design provides channeling of air for more precision
in general, slower and a better choice for team flying

Yank & Spank SLE:
SLE can't fly as low wind range
stiff rod makes kite more responsive to inputs (good or bad)
in general, faster and can be flown team with more attention to inputs

I prefer the crisp sports car feel of the SLE compared to the mushy feel of the 2 & 3-wrap rods. I can live with wobbles in my flying. In fact it adds to the fun and challenge to fly as smooth as possible. Those are my preferences, which may not be yours.

All that said, my favorite quads are the Rev II & Vented Rev II, provided there is enough wind. The Rev II may go down to about 6-8 mph and still be fun for most people's skill. They are not finesse kites by a long shot, but they can be flown with some degree of finesse with practice. Bumpy winds affect the (twitchier) IIs compared to the (more stable) 1.5s. If you are flying a II, precision isn't a high priority - you want speed, thrills, and light pull. The IIs put very little stress on the hands, back, or knees, as the wind speeds up. If you want to get into even higer winds, the II can get tiring on the hands and it's time to pull out the Vented II. High speed inverted ground passes just inches off the deck are attainable. Smoothness of the wind and skill level dictate how close you get with a II.

The Vented 1.5 SLE does the sweetest inverted side slides - a very stable yet responsive kite. It makes you look like a pro in almost any orientation.

For those that want speed and strong pull, the Supersonic works great. However, the strong pull beats up my bad back too quickly for extended flying time, usually about 20 minutes if I'm putting it through a workout and then switch to a II.




Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: bobw on June 03, 2009, 07:14 AM
LOL.  Yank and Spank.  Excellent descriptions!

I'm flying w. other folks and really love the social nature of team flying.  Because of that, the softer non-sle frames really work best for me.  And Hi Bobd.  I've gotten pretty dang good since we last met!

My $0.02.  I've gotten addicted, and have the B, midvent, and full vent, and each has its place. Venting smooths out any quirkiness, but reduces the low end.  I *do* love my midvent and I tend to reach for it first if I can.  As soon as the winds get to a consistent 5+, I go to the mid.

As for moving around, you still move w a quad, just a lot less than with dualies.  Unless you are doing slack line tricks, most big body/arm moves are just to compensate for wind conditions, and unless the wind is really light, or you are doing team flying (in which case I move a lot to help keep my kite consistent in formation flying), an arm chair sounds like heaven.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: alleykat on June 03, 2009, 07:20 AM
I was looking at the B-series in particular. I kinda of liked the idea of the extras it comes with. I was looking for something to fly in wind above UL dual line range as I was going to keep my UL in the bag and replace the standard.

How low wind range will the vented B-series fly as compared to the non-vented version. I had purchased a SLE back before but did not keep it around. I believe the biggest problem I had with it were the handles and lineset. It was the shorter handles and I am not sure the lineset was close enought to equal lengths truth be known. I had bought it as a set from a shop. Really wished now I would have kept it and bought extra rods and better lineset for it as well as the longer handles.

I flew a friends with the longer handles and a better lineset and it made it alot easier to control. You live and learn I guess.

Anyone got a B-series set they are looking to trade for a dual line?  ;D


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Bob D on June 03, 2009, 09:47 AM
The vented B Series will be more challenging to keep in the air below 10ish. My mid vent with race rods will fly in 8ish but it's going to be more challenging below that. If you're interested in a B series when the wind isn't terribly strong, you might want a Std B Series. I like the option of the mid vent when the wind speed gets over 10 mph and still be able to fly below 10 mph. Over 10 mph, the standard will not have the upper end that the mid vent does.

Ahh, no matter what you do, you can't go wrong with the B Series.

(Bobw: Pretty rainy right now but Sunday's looking pretty nice. I'm thinking about going to LSP. If I go, maybe I'll see you there.)

(Wind speed is relative for me. Above 10 is blowing pretty well. 8 is getting lighter but enough to fly comfortably in. And 5 is practically nothing. )


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Allen Carter on June 03, 2009, 10:39 AM
Disregarding the "bundle" (frame, handles, etc) is there anything about the B- series sail that makes it fly different than a regular 1.5?


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: jsking on June 03, 2009, 10:40 AM
I was looking at the B-series in particular. I kinda of liked the idea of the extras it comes with. I was looking for something to fly in wind above UL dual line range as I was going to keep my UL in the bag and replace the standard.

How low wind range will the vented B-series fly as compared to the non-vented version. I had purchased a SLE back before but did not keep it around. I believe the biggest problem I had with it were the handles and lineset. It was the shorter handles and I am not sure the lineset was close enought to equal lengths truth be known. I had bought it as a set from a shop. Really wished now I would have kept it and bought extra rods and better lineset for it as well as the longer handles.

I flew a friends with the longer handles and a better lineset and it made it alot easier to control. You live and learn I guess.

Anyone got a B-series set they are looking to trade for a dual line?  ;D


I generally don't get my full vent out until it's at least over about 15mph, although I think we were doing 12-15 at Wildwood with no real issues.  On the other side of the coin, you can take a full sail from maybe 6mph (with light frame and a lil' effort) up to 20mph, give or take, by changing out the frames. In the higher ranges, you can double the LE and adjust the kite's aspect (give it more brake or "down" via the handle adjustments) and keep on flying. Best is to have a full sail AND a vented with all the frames that come with...and/or separately purchased race rods. You then have numerous options to set up for almost any given wind conditions. If you're only looking for one or the other, tho', consider what the prevalent wind conditions are (generally high, or generally low?) where you normally fly and think about which kite would best suit your needs.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Dano on June 03, 2009, 11:01 AM
Disregarding the "bundle" (frame, handles, etc) is there anything about the B- series sail that makes it fly different than a regular 1.5?

As i've heard it, the stitching of the sail allows for a different stretch on the sail and will channel the wind a bit better through the sail.

I've got all regular 1.5's though, and the Race Rods LE are the best improvements i've seen in my std. I've got a new 4-wrap le for my vented, just waiting for the rain to stop to try that setup.   
------------------

I'd recommend to alleykat to get BOTH a std and vented to cover most any wind he would encounter in the field. The std will pull a bit hard on those windy days,
and the vented just loves to fly inverted soo smoothly.  :)
 


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Dano on June 03, 2009, 06:20 PM
... which of the Rev B  Series is the prefernce and why? (Standard vs. Vented)


Here's a good analogy i got from another forum for you..

"I want to start playing golf, should I buy a set of woods, or a set of irons?"
 ;D


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: lylenc on June 03, 2009, 08:16 PM
As i've heard it, the stitching of the sail allows for a different stretch on the sail and will channel the wind a bit better through the sail.

That's what I understand, too. John B may even say it on the video that comes with the B-Series kite.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Watty on June 04, 2009, 03:21 PM
Well, you could commonly find me flying on a std. B-Series with race rods and 80ft lines in 0-5 mph wind. That is my most common setup. However if you are just looking to bring in revs when the wind is a tad heavy for your dual line kites, I would go with a full vent or mid vent.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Allen Carter on June 04, 2009, 04:56 PM
As i've heard it, the stitching of the sail allows for a different stretch on the sail and will channel the wind a bit better through the sail.

That's what I understand, too. John B may even say it on the video that comes with the B-Series kite.

I've heard that too, but "channel the wind a bit better" is meaningless.

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone really quantify the difference.

I'm only interested because I'm in the minority thinking the B-series sails are generally fairly unattractive.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: kairusan on June 04, 2009, 05:21 PM

I've heard that too, but "channel the wind a bit better" is meaningless.

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone really quantify the difference.

I'm only interested because I'm in the minority thinking the B-series sails are generally fairly unattractive.

According to a certain review of the B-Series, one is only able to tell the difference between it and the 1.5 if one's got "enough skill" or some such nonsense. I've also seen some posts discussing the allegedly superior "billow" that one gets from a B-Series sail (despite the fact that the material and size is precisely the same as the 1.5). And Rev's marketing materials say that the vertical panels on the standard B-Series will, as the sail stretches over time, "begin to channel wind vertically" (despite the fact that those panels are not vertically oriented in the first instance, and especially not when one has the kite actually framed up, causing the middle of these "channels" to become distorted).

Now, there could be something to all of this puffery, because the standard B does have more panels than the standard 1.5, and the vented's got slightly differently shaped vents (but the same total vented area, or so I'm told). But like you, I too think the B-Series sails are "generally fairly unattractive" and therefore I much prefer my cool-looking 1.5 SLEs (with decent frames in them, of course). Ergo, add one more "not enough skill" person to your minority.  ;D


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: Dano on June 04, 2009, 06:34 PM
I've heard that too, but "channel the wind a bit better" is meaningless.
I don't know that I've ever heard anyone really quantify the difference.

Good point Allen!
Thats probably the reason both of mine are standard 1.5's also.

Next time out with my buddy, i'll accept his offer to fly the JB series and see if i can quantify any real difference for us.  ;)


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: kiten00b on June 04, 2009, 07:02 PM
What you need to do is have the same frames/lines/handle setting in each kite and fly both and then have a friend fly both while you stand downwind. You will see if the B has a deeper sail billow than the SLE or not.
Good point Allen!
Thats probably the reason both of mine are standard 1.5's also.

Next time out with my buddy, i'll accept his offer to fly the JB series and see if i can quantify any real difference for us

What you need to do is have the same frames/lines/handle setting in each kite and fly both and then have a friend fly both while you stand downwind. You will see if the B has a deeper sail billow than the SLE or not.


Title: Re: Need little help
Post by: alleykat on June 05, 2009, 01:56 PM
I was looking to replace my standard duallie with the rev was my idea. I just thought the rev would be a little less work out on the knees and so forth. Thanks for all the input and if anyone has one they are will ing to part with let me know :P