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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: kepople on February 02, 2013, 08:07 PM



Title: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 02, 2013, 08:07 PM
Spent today trying to taz. Wind was terrible, either 0 or 10 and gusty. Kite was NSE.

I am having trouble getting the rotation after the half axel. I give it extra slack so the nose comes up, smooth pull for the rotation, and most of the time, it would turn nose toward me, and slow the rotation to a stop. Other times it would just resume flying opposite direction.
I am giving slack with the off hand after the rotation input, and was trying not to pull too hard with that input to make sure the kite can keep rotating.

I can do 540's with one pull.

The only taz i got right required that i add a tug with the other hand when it had turnedjust past 180 and was losing momentum.

Any suggestions for improvement?

I know, wheres the video.


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: tpatter on February 02, 2013, 08:15 PM
Sounds like not enough slack.  After you pop for the rotation, you need slack in both lines in order for the kite to flat spin.   

Hope it helps.  Try em on your TNT. 


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Wayner on February 02, 2013, 08:26 PM

Finally got the lots of slack part down, but still inconsistence with my Tazs, What is the proper time for the input. Think I'm poping to early   ::)





Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: adx1592 on February 02, 2013, 08:52 PM
Make sure when the kite is in the flare position from the half axel, that the nose is actually past the flare position. Instead of the spine being parallel to the ground, it should be at an angle. The tail should be just below the nose. See if that helps?



Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 02, 2013, 08:56 PM
I do the half axel, extra slack in the pop hand as per dpmama tutorial, to get the nose up. When the nose is up, and lines touch lower spreader, pull with opposite hand and slack the pop hand. So you reverse the input motion of the half axel.

If any of this is right or wrong, i dont know, just what i saw in tutorials.

So in order for me to get more slack i would need to move forward a few steps... Is that typical?


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 02, 2013, 09:01 PM
Make sure when the kite is in the flare position from the half axel, that the nose is actually past the flare position. Instead of the spine being parallel to the ground, it should be at an angle. The tail should be just below the nose. See if that helps?



Past the flare, meaning nose up?
Thats where i was trying from. I had to give lots of slack to keep the tip from grabbing also..

So when you pull for the rotation, randy G says a smooth pull gives a flat spin. I wondred if somehow i was pulling too much on the rotation input, and not letting the kite continue its rotation, so i focused on that and got now where.


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: adx1592 on February 02, 2013, 09:07 PM
Yup! nose up, but just a little bit. Kinda depends on the kite really, some like a tug, others like a 'sweeping' kind of input. What are you flying on mostly?


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: tpatter on February 02, 2013, 09:29 PM
You can also work on he slot machine to help 'burn in' the timing of the input.   

I mean, it's the opposite hand after the half axel for the taz, but, to me, the kite is in the same position when you initiate the flat-spin.

I guess what I'm saying is that you could work on the slot machine, which is much easier to do, before the taz if you haven't already learned that one.  It helps to get down the required slack for a full rotation.



Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 02, 2013, 10:50 PM
So slot input is simply another tug with the pop hand for the half axle?
I guess the slack is already sufficient for the rotation at that point for the slot rotation.

Tom, Does the TNT love the slot machine too?

Adx: I fly my black pearl set the most at the moment. They like to do spinny stuff too. Also fly the sea devil, and fearless light vtd. (both will probably be replaced soon as go to kites when the new shipment of lam kites arrive at my door soon ;-) )


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Krijn on February 02, 2013, 11:57 PM
yes, the tnt is a tazzer, but slots are also very accessible (or a sixth sense  ;) )


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: jaydub on February 03, 2013, 02:00 AM
If you are flying a NSE, you really can't do much better than studying Martin's tutorial and studies.  Randy G's will work pretty well too.

As Tom and Krijn have said, you may be better to try and learn them on your TNT - it Tazes very readily

Don't try them on the BP until you are proficient with other kites.  I can Taz, but I really struggled on the BP Pro I had on loan for a few months, yet I picked up the lines of a TNT and were doing them almost straight away.

I agree with Tom that it makes more sense to learn the slot first.  I'm not sure I agree that starting position for the slot and the Taz are necessarily the same on all kites.  Some kites are happier being set up for the slot at approx 45 degrees to both the vertical and horizontal axes, but prefer to be Tazed absolutely flat.

One word of warning.  I got obsessed with the Taz and spent 12 months trying to do them to the detriment of other tricks.  The Taz only really came when my flying improved in other areas.  So if you can't get it, move on, do other stuff and come back to it later.



Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: rudyy on February 03, 2013, 05:20 AM
I have the exact same problem you have i.e. the kite only rotates 180 and then loses the momentum to continue on.  After some careful analysis, I figured out what the problem is.  Let's say I am flying from left to right, and then pop the half axel with my left hand (upper wing).  Immediately after the half axel popping, I need to give lots of slack to that same left hand before popping the opposite right hand for the rotation. 

Quote
I am giving slack with the off hand after the rotation input, and was trying not to pull too hard with that input to make sure the kite can keep rotating.

So, try giving slack with the off hand after the half axel input, not the rotation input.   In the 540s, you do not give slack to your off hand after the rotation input but before.  It is the same thing in taz.

Rudy


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 03, 2013, 07:27 PM
Man wish i could have tried again today but family obligations.

I would have thought the black pearl would do them well. I will try on the tnt next time and start with the slot machine first.

I am trying to aquire a tnt std comp so maybe i can het that to work.

Rudy,
Are you saying i need to slack the pop hand after the half axle more? I tried to kep it slack so the nose can come up. So after the half axle input, maybe i need to take a step before the rotation?


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: rudyy on February 03, 2013, 08:16 PM
Yes, slack the half axel popping hand more.  In fact, I think you can just extend that hand first, wait for half a second and then pop with the opposite hand for the rotation.  I am going to experiement how long the delay can be after the slack but before the pop. 

Rudy


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: vertigo2u on February 03, 2013, 08:26 PM
Got my New Ocius Ul and it taught me how to Taz.  All I know is when I finish my Half Axel .. When the nose is pointed upwards I pull hard and give a lot of slack... I just posted under the Ocius post my video of my Ocius doing Taz's... I had done one the day before with my Widow Maker ...on the left side ..These were with the Ocius right side.  TomP is right once you do one you'll gonna luv em'...

The Ocius is smaller than the Widow Maker ... makes it easier ... I can man handler her ... try different kite ..

Post a video of what your doing...


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Kabel on February 08, 2013, 03:40 PM
Today I made a little taz video with my Bill... I made this video because, so far, I'm not happy with the taz... it's ok, but Bill can do better ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTc8JObuTk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTc8JObuTk)

Best


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: tpatter on February 08, 2013, 04:25 PM
Today I made a little taz video with my Bill... I made this video because, so far, I'm not happy with the taz... it's ok, but Bill can do better ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTc8JObuTk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTc8JObuTk)

Best

Looks pretty good to me.  What are you not happy with, the height drop?  rotation speed?  My Fearless SUL does them like this - slow and floaty, but I like it.

-Tom


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Kabel on February 08, 2013, 04:45 PM
The nose is coming too high so the kite is losing rotation speed... sometimes there is not enough power to complete the 540 rotation...
I want the rotation more flat, I did some very flat taz (like in some Veyron videos) with bill... but I don't know how to get them constantly.

Best


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Wayner on February 08, 2013, 04:54 PM

Thanks for posting the video and using slow motion.

knew I was hitting my input at the wrong time. your video helps a lot.  :)



Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: rudyy on February 08, 2013, 05:45 PM

Quote
The nose is coming too high so the kite is losing rotation speed... sometimes there is not enough power to complete the 540 rotation...
I want the rotation more flat, I did some very flat taz (like in some Veyron videos) with bill... but I don't know how to get them constantly.

Maybe you are doing it too close to the edge of the wind window?  Have you tried doing it at the center of the wind window?

Rudy


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Kabel on February 09, 2013, 01:00 PM
The problem in video 1 is a too firm pull and the second impulse is too early... I made another video that shows another problem when trying to get a perfect taz. At the end of the video I show 4 taz I think they are good, but not perfect...

Here video 2:

Bill Taz Projekt (Part2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9rZRb0OjU#ws)

Best


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 09, 2013, 01:26 PM
last ones look good to me... but then i am the one who can't do them :-)

is that the bill or Hugo?

stripes look black but not sure...


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Kabel on February 09, 2013, 01:34 PM
It's a Bill...the stripes can be black or dark grey. :)


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: kepople on February 09, 2013, 03:01 PM
Which do you like better? ( Slight sidetrack on this thread...)


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Kabel on February 09, 2013, 03:19 PM
I only have Bill. I've flown Hugo 2 times... but I think it's not that different, perhaps the "normal" UL to Std. difference.
But I'm also quite new to Bill... :D


Title: Re: Taz troubles
Post by: Wayner on February 09, 2013, 04:57 PM

Very nice taz in the follow up video. You form has really improved.  8)

 
The problem in video 1 is a too firm pull

This is the problem with my taz's. If strong inputs were a requirement, I would be a expert by now.  :D 

Spent the last six months calming my inputs, hope this will finally allow me to crack the taz.