GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: chilese on February 05, 2013, 02:57 PM



Title: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: chilese on February 05, 2013, 02:57 PM
I have a thick, fuzzy rub patch which is about 1/2 on (or off

depending on your glass of water outlook).

So, best way to reattach?

Hot glue  :o

Rubber cement

Epoxy

bubblegum

I'm open.

Not my kite so let's be on the safe side.



Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: thief on February 05, 2013, 03:17 PM
i would probably use goo gone and some QTips and slowly remove the entire thing then slap on a new fuzzy side velcro patch....


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Hal on February 05, 2013, 05:19 PM
That Thief, always so practical!   ;D


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Lee S on February 05, 2013, 07:00 PM
Rip that sucker off like an old band-aid :o :o.  O.K., don't. I've always used clear sail repair tape for my rub patches. I draw a circle using a quarter as a  template, and put one of the front and then a matching one on the back. I'm presently using sail repair tape from West Marine. Got a big ol' roll of it, so a lifetime supply..

Lee


Title: Re: Re: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: DD on February 05, 2013, 07:09 PM
i would probably use goo gone and some QTips and slowly remove the entire thing then slap on a new fuzzy side velcro patch....
+1


Title: Re: Re: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: indigo_wolf on February 05, 2013, 07:55 PM
i would probably use goo gone and some QTips and slowly remove the entire thing then slap on a new fuzzy side velcro patch....
+1

+2  generally make the new rub patch a long oval so there are no sharp edges to get sheared/peeled off.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Steve on February 05, 2013, 09:16 PM
Is it round? on a Prism?  may have an exact replacement for you ... if I can get to the shop.


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: chilese on February 05, 2013, 10:18 PM
It's oval shaped:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MRcrIcExOH4/UQnH1t6vXWI/AAAAAAABIlI/QhNu3w2a-FE/s800/_DSC5515%2520HQ%2520Crackerjack.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/KTAI2013LasVegas#5839418117535522146)

You just get better big guy.  :)


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: mikenchico on February 05, 2013, 10:21 PM
yep, replace the whole thing, cleaner then a repair. If you use goo gone be sure to clean the sail of any residue before applying the new rub patch. Steve has Moonie Tape also if you want to go that way when replacing it.



Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Michel on February 05, 2013, 10:56 PM
Double-sided acrylic adhesive tape or (better) Pressure Sensitive Tape by 3M.


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Ara Ararauna on February 06, 2013, 04:59 AM
Hi,

I'm sorry I'm a bit lost and I want to learn about these maintenance issues.

Is the rub patch the reinforcement for the upper spreader?
If so, aren't they usually sewn to the sail?
The one on my Soul is also getting worn down but I wasn't sure about how to get around changing it.
Cut and remove the thread all around and substitute by a new one? Stick some new reinforcement on top without removing the old?

So, if the rub patch is what I think it is, I'm really interested in these procedures but I want to make sure.
Thanks.


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: indigo_wolf on February 06, 2013, 06:37 AM
Is the rub patch the reinforcement for the upper spreader?

It's the area of material where the upper spreader crosses the spine and, in most cases, that leaves a patch of nylon sandwiched between the two (upper spreader & spine).

As the sail loads and unloads with air, there a bit a movement by the upper spreader as it shifts its position due to the flex available in the upper leading edge connectors.  This combination of movement and the pressure on the sail in that area between the spine and upper spreader leads to wear.  Different kites use different materials to combat this wear by applying a "sacrificial" (replaceable) patch.  The patches can be diamond shaped, oval, circular (I believe the Prism Flashlight used a circular patch), rectangular, etc.   Some low mass kites (Prism Micron, with it's tiny upper spreader) forgo the patch entirely.   

These materials include a slightly stiffer/more abrasion-resistant nylon/polyester (these are generally the ones you see sewn to the sail), velcro (flocked loop side), and "Moonie" tape (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=255)  (a ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene film with acrylic based adhesive).  Some kites opt just to have a cutout where the spine and upper spreader cross allowing the spars to make direct contact with each other.

If so, aren't they usually sewn to the sail?
The one on my Soul is also getting worn down but I wasn't sure about how to get around changing it.
Cut and remove the thread all around and substitute by a new one? Stick some new reinforcement on top without removing the old?

If you are going to replace it, I would say remove the old one otherwise you are just adding weight (minimal), bulk (which increases the pressure wear in that area due to the additional layer), and (possibly) another point of failure.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: tpatter on February 06, 2013, 08:12 AM
I put a ring of gaffers tape around the center of the upper spreader which seems to prevent wear to both the spreader and the wear patch.   


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Ara Ararauna on February 06, 2013, 10:39 AM
Wow Sam! What a master class on rub patches.
Thanks!
Very useful.

Very interesting also this thing about the cut-outs... I have never seen any kites with them yet.

Also thanks a lot skb for the tips on the Soul rub patch. You have saved me from potential disaster as I was planning on un-sewing the original and trying to sew a new one.
So as John says, better be on the safe side.
I will double check it but the worn out part looks white as opposed to the black material of the patch and I thought it was already the sail that was visible through the hole. So I will look at it carefully and cover it with the Insignia tape or similar.

tpatter, I will also consider the tape on the US.



Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: DD on February 06, 2013, 11:36 AM
just to be clear some of the patches are the 'soft' side of a velcro dot or other shape cutout


Title: Re: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: tcope on February 06, 2013, 12:24 PM
Ara, usually kites have dacron or other kites material sewn on in this place. I always apply a patch of velcro (soft fuzzy side) right over that. Once it's worn, just peal it off and put a new piece on. That way you don't need to rip and resew another patch on.

Sent from my Samsung S3


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: indigo_wolf on February 06, 2013, 01:11 PM
Very interesting also this thing about the cut-outs... I have never seen any kites with them yet.


Both the Level One Thor's Hammer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/danbrinnehl/3552452025/#lightbox/) and Michael Ryll Pure XL (http://www.windspiele.org/BilderWasGeht/Drachentestberichte/PDFs/dra2000_08_010.pdf#page=2) use cut-outs and fittings for the upper spreader. 

However, there's a whole lot of rubbing going on due to the size of the spars.  ;)  :D

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Ara Ararauna on February 06, 2013, 02:05 PM
Ara, usually kites have dacron or other kites material sewn on in this place. I always apply a patch of velcro (soft fuzzy side) right over that. Once it's worn, just peal it off and put a new piece on. That way you don't need to rip and resew another patch on.

Sent from my Samsung S3

OK great idea. I'll try this first since it is so simple and fast.
Thanks!


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Ara Ararauna on February 06, 2013, 02:07 PM
If you use it will show wear, but it won't hurt the performance.
A few scuffs and patches is a sign of kite that is flown and not babied.
I have kites with plenty of wear and they still fly just as well as they did when brand new.
If you do wear a kite out, you've gotten your money's worth out of it.
A kite that you don't fly never earns its keep.

Indeed! But being my first large kite "my Soul" wears out to see "my Soul" wear out...   ;)


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: chilese on February 06, 2013, 04:35 PM
Lazy boy solution.

Went to the hobby store. Bought different thickness

double-sided hobby grade (?) tape.

Cleaned the surfaces and used the skinniest tape (1/32").

Press firmly. Fly immediately.

So far, so good.


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: Ara Ararauna on February 06, 2013, 09:38 PM
Lazy boy solution.

Went to the hobby store. Bought different thickness

double-sided hobby grade (?) tape.

Cleaned the surfaces and used the skinniest tape (1/32").

Press firmly. Fly immediately.

So far, so good.

Lazy boy or Eager2fly boy?   ;)

The second sounds better, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Rub Patch Gluing
Post by: indigo_wolf on February 06, 2013, 10:08 PM
Lazy boy solution.

Went to the hobby store. Bought different thickness

double-sided hobby grade (?) tape.

Cleaned the surfaces and used the skinniest tape (1/32").

Press firmly. Fly immediately.

So far, so good.


Lazy boy or Eager2fly boy?   ;)

The second sounds better, doesn't it?



Wow.... now all I can imagine is John dragging a big ol' recliner (http://www.la-z-boy.com/Furniture/Recliners/) onto the field so he can fly while seated in it.   ???  :o

ATB,
Sam