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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: lowpuller on February 26, 2013, 04:39 PM



Title: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lowpuller on February 26, 2013, 04:39 PM
Not new to kiting, have lots of 2 line stunt kites, a kite board with 3 kites, but now I want a Revolution.

I've been on their site and read lots of stuff, but it is really hard to understand why they make all the different models and what they are used for. I also dot understand all the different rods.

Can someone summarize?

Thanks for the help!


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: chilese on February 26, 2013, 05:04 PM
In summary, the more you spend, the better the product.

By the time you get up to the B-Series Pro, your kite will be

made by Barry "Bazzer" Poulter and you can have custom

colors done.

Most of Revheads™ prefer the B-Series Pro with a light set

of rods (although very strong). The Rev 1 is the largest of the

normal Revs, the Rev 1.5 is the most popular model.

I have a Rev 1.5 SLE (not a popular leading edge rod with the

lads & lasses in Revland), and a Rev 1.

That should get you started.  :)

It's a time tested (1987ish) design which was unique at the time

and still considered the best quad-line flier today. And made in

the US of A. Hard to fault a unique, well-made, well-designed

product. I like everything about them except their shape.

But form follows function, I've been told.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lowpuller on February 26, 2013, 05:24 PM
Ok, I keep getting answers like yours, what is the difference in the models you mention. What do I get for my more money.

How do I tell if a kite it lite moderate or heavy wind.

Why the different rods.

Willing to pay, just want to know what I'm buying!


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: boomertype on February 26, 2013, 05:45 PM
EXP - Very basic model, not as user friendly as the B Series 1.5

SLE 1.5 - Standard model made in house, great kite.  Lot's of us started with the SLE 1.5

B Series 1.5 - does not use the SLE (Super Leading Edge) - instead it uses/allows the flyer to use various stiffness rods.  Allows you to mix and match.  Usually comes with two sets of rods and handles.  You determine the line length you want to use.  B-Series was designed for team flying and individual flying, designed by John Barresi, current president of the AKA, the founder of iQuad team, etc. etc.  Google him!  Comes in Std/Vented/Mid-Vent.

B Series Pro - pro level B Series - sewed by kite artisan Barry Poulter.  More expensive, beginners will do just fine with the non-Pro version above.  Comes in Std/Vented/Mid-Vent.

Rev 1 - Bigger - not B series, unless you buy the Zen - a Barry Poulter made UL Rev 1 - has it's own special Zen rods.

Rev 2 - smaller than all these - quick and twitchy, however there is now a B-Series - fun and quick.  Comes in Std/Vented/Mid-Vent.

The super big ones and the fast/sonic ones - don't go there to start.

I'd start with a BSeries - enjoy the dark side.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: boomertype on February 26, 2013, 06:10 PM
Just like Dirty Harry said, sometimes you just have to ask yourself. . .
what kind of winds do you have to fly in? 
I live inland with access to beaches.  (all B Series or B Series Pro's) Inland in light flukey winds I use a B Series STD with Race rods.  When it picks up I love the Mid-Vent with Race rods till I feel it need to move to a 3 wrap rod.  The Mid-Vent with Race rods is my favorite (SKB is a wise man!).  This past year I picked up the Rev 2 in the B2 model - grabbed the Mid-Vent with a set of Race Rods. 
When I'm at the coast I use a full vent model to handle the winds and usually use 3 wrap rods.

So what kind of winds do you fly in?


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lowpuller on February 26, 2013, 06:22 PM
Two types of wind,

Here crazy gusty 12-25, cold October to April

All other times whatever the beach has to offer.  Lots of OBX time, although usually on a kiteboard there but it's usually 15 - 30 reliable.

I prefer a decent breeze and like to feel the pull of the kite. 

Not sure i get the vent thing?  Does it reduce the pull and give you control?

Which Rev is a good 15-20 mile an hour kite? If I want to feel the pull.

Can I get both precision and pull?

Thanks for the replies!





Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: boomertype on February 26, 2013, 06:40 PM
Vented - 4 wrap rods to learn on - for those wind conditions.  I fly the OBX twice a year and I always fly a vented.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lowpuller on February 26, 2013, 06:54 PM
So what's the mid vent for?

I think I'm hearing B series 4 wrap, still not sure about the vented.  Get lots of 5-8 days here will it really fly that light. Let e rephrase that, is it worth flying that light. 

What do you think the Rev Supersonic, I can only find it on their site.

Where do you buy your Revs. I have only found B series with 3 wrap rods can't find the 4 wrap rods?


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: Tmadz on February 26, 2013, 07:16 PM
I suggest you visit the Rev forum and search the topics. It is a treasure trove of information. After you have satisfied yourself you have learned enough, call a reputable dealer. There's a couple of very good dealers who are sponsors here (see the right side of the page). They are terrific at customer service and will ask the right questions to find the right Rev for you.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: chilese on February 26, 2013, 07:48 PM
In golf terms:

The standard B-Series Rev 1.5 can be considered an excellent 5 iron.

the mid-vent would be a 7 iron.

the full-vent would be a 9 iron.

The X-tra vent would be a sand wedge.

The framing options are flexible (pun intended):

race rods (lightest)
3 wrap
4 wrap
3+4 wrap (stiffest)

Most of the better Rev fliers tend to fly with whatever rods bend a lot without breaking.

It is very easy to change the frame set in any Rev sail. It takes about 30 seconds.

If you have a lot of daulies you enjoy flying, consider getting a full-vent Rev and fly that

whenever the winds get over about 15 mph. Below 15, fly your dualies.

And the Rev Forum does have lots of very talented Quadladites. They would be

happy to answer your questions.  :)


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: trigger on February 26, 2013, 07:51 PM
ok, i am new to revs also... here's what i did...

bought a 1.5b series std sail.  Loved it and it flew great in the lighter winds around here. It is a great deal because it comes with 2 frame sets BUT NO LINES!!!!!!!  I flew with some real REV folk from IKE and the wind was blowing pretty good, they said don't even take that standard sail out you will STRETCH IT!  well it was my birthday and my wife loves me so she got me a windmeter.. it was only 12mph but it seemed much stronger(read between the lines,, people don't really know wind speed) felt 20mph to me :)

Went out a week later and bought a 1.5SLE, kinda a mess up but I am happy with it and the store worked closely with me!  I fly that kite most of the time up to about 20mph with the 4wrap,  I have never used the SEWER PIPE SLE rods that it came with!  
IT IS SMOOTH AS SILK!!!  

SUM IT UP...
With your winds I would get the 1.5b full vent with 4wrap and race frame... I think that would be a sweet ride for you!

Good luck!!!


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: trigger on February 26, 2013, 07:58 PM
YOU WILL HAVE MORE THAN ONE!!!!    sorry, it's OK... we ALL DO  8)


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: goestoeleven on February 26, 2013, 09:03 PM
To add to the confusion . . . . .

Why do you have three kites for boarding?  I don't kiteboard, but I'm betting it's mostly about the wind speed - higher winds, you need less kite to get the job done.  Same with Revs, but it's done with venting because the size of the kite (for the vast majority of Rev flyers) doesn't change.  The 1.5 kite with 3 wrap rods is by far the most popular size because (for most people) it's the right combination of wind range, handling, speed and precision.  The Rev 1 is really nice, but it's slower & not as fast to respond simply because it's a larger kite, more angular momentum, and slower to turn.  Same as it is for you with a big kite boarding sail vs. a smaller one.  The Rev 2s are the hyper/twitchy little brothers of the 1.5, so they are fun to fly, but a bit too twitchy for most people.  Plus, a big benefit for many Rev flyers is group / team flying, and if everyone else has a 1.5 . . . well, you want to be on a 1.5 as well.  If you plan to fly with others, skip the 85 foot lines and just buy a set of 120s.  They are the group flying standard length, plus you'll have more wind window to mess with when you are learning . . . you just have more time to react on 120s than 85s. 

As for me, my favorite kite for higher winds (over maybe 12 mph) is my B series 1.5 full vent with 3 (or rarely 4) wraps.  That's until I . . . . get a Shook mesh Masterpiece Rev.  If you have plenty of spare coin lying around, the Rev for high winds (like OBX) is the Shook mesh rev.  It was designed for the winds of the outer banks.  Someday . . . . it will be mine.

The rev I actually fly the most lately is my EXP, which is a (relatively) inexpensive full sail that's the exact same size and shape as the 1.5 standard, and comes with rods that are very much like the 3 wraps.  The sail material and panels are not as nice as the "standard" 1.5, but the shape is exactly the same.  That's right, my  lowest end rev is my most frequent flyer, due to the wind conditions (light / variable a good chunk of the time around here).  I have Rev 1.5 SULs, full sail 1.5s, full vent 1.5s (b-series & not), Rev 1's and Rev 2's, and the EXP is probably getting the most air time these days.  EXP is only available in full sail though, so it's not a good choice for higher winds. 

Now . . . even though the EXP is getting the most air time over the last year or so . . . at some point I will spring for a set of B-Pros.  The workmanship on the kites is exceptional, reinforcements at all the right points, and . . . well, they just fly beautifully compared to "factory standard" Revs.  Like . . . . well, I won't go into more analogies because this is a family-friendly forum, and things might get a bit . . . .

So, with that out of my system, IMHO you don't need to get hung up too much on whether you get a standard 1.5, B-Series 1.5, or B-Pro.  However . . . if you get hooked, you will end up with three (or more) - just like you did with kiteboarding - so you may want to factor that into your kite budgeting plans.  I'd agree with most people here that you should get a full vent for your first kite, if you have higher wind speeds.  The venting will make it more forgiving.  I'd probably go with 3 or 4 wrap spars, 4 wrap if you're only planning on flying in higher winds.  For the second Rev for OBX, I'd get a full sail kite to fly on lower wind days.  You don't need to get an SUL as your abilities and handle leader tuning will make a bigger difference in your flying in low winds than the weight of the kite.  Work on getting lots of flying time, then you'll find you can fly a standard sail down in lower and lower winds (if you want to). 

Welcome to the dark side . . .


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: REVflyer on February 27, 2013, 03:41 AM
We just did a rev clinic (more like a fun fly with lessons & advise thrown-in as people requested 'em) at OBX over the President's Day weekend with the Shooks.  Next year you should certainly plan to join us at the Whalehead Club!

We flew super ultra lights full sailed 1.5s (and the Zen) and heavily framed mesh and full vents, depending on the wind speed.  We flew indoors for a few hours, both Sat& Sunday too.  We jumped around and tried out different arrangements and tuning methods on each other's equipment. 
Thursday was dead calm to begin, not a ripple of wave action on the sound to be seen anywhere.  We flew Bazzer Pro full sail 1.5s with Skyshark framing (light weight, delicate and very flexible) and magic sticks on 120 feet of 50# LPG and 50# Skybond.  During the later parts of that afternoon we switched out to Mid-vents with Green race frames.
The wind was probably 1 or 3 mph to start and eventually finished a steady 10 to 14 mph.
100# Skybond on 15 inch no-snags for me.

The next day it was probably blowing 20 steady with gusts over 35 mph,... and raining besides!  We flew 100% mesh Shook masterpieces on 4 wraps or Green Race and I used 140# Skybond on 13 inch no-snag handles. (A never used combination on my home flying fields!)

If you didn't have the right stuff, somebody loaned you equipment.  The Shook palace is just across the street so if you needed something you could buy it double-quick.  We even asked Elliot for some repairs and argued over who's order should be processed first!

The joy of quad gatherings is the ability to share and experience differences.  I have a couple pairs of matching kites (working on flyin' .one in each hand, it's humbling!).  I set them up, one with a French Bridle and one with a stock bridle so I can be comfortable borrowing kites to practice.  This combination also makes it easy for folks to try something completely different.  It's not better, just different!  You have to decide what's best and the easiest way to do that is to meet up with some other folks.

After you are comfortable with stock equipment you can begin to experiment to see what you might change,... how that impacts your flight dynamics, what conditions, what objectives, etc

Personally?, most of my equipment is "targeted to fly in no-wind".  I prefer a different construction method for the leading edge, I always add a set of magic sticks (even indoors!), I almost always fly on long throw handles.

We were on OBX for five days and my most used kite during that time was a full sailed B-Pro
on 90# LPG/120s with 15" no-snags.

The difference in the Revolution models only matters with some of your own flying experience mixed in.  Talk to a knowledgable retailer, or call the factory, or go meet-up with some other quad-heads.  You'll own two Revs in short order(or more!) Most people go full sail and full vent as their first buys.

For the locals here in the DC metro area that meet-up with our kite club members, we advise them to NOT buy a kite for the first 2 years.  Instead go buy a perfectly fitting gortex rainsuit and appropriate shoes/boots.  Fly on our equipment until you know exactly what you want, then go get it.  You can learn to drive on your own bus in the wallmart parking lot or you can practice on the track with our Ferraris.  I don't want to see anymore people on beginner kites!  You get what you pay for, until you know what you want EXACTLY don't waste your money.  Who knows you might be a KAP guy or the big show kite might make your mouth water instead of a quad.  When you'll happily eat ketchup sandwiches all summer long (to save money) for Bazzer or Shook's custom creations you're one of us as well!



Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: Gamelord on February 27, 2013, 01:08 PM
Basic break down on the models:

First, we'll start off with the 1.5 series sails.  There are three of them.  The EXP, 1.5 SLE and the B-Series.  All three of these kites are nearly identical in size and all use the same frames.  Frames are all interchangeable throughout all three models.

EXP - most inexpensive Rev.  Made with simple 3 panel layout (on each side), material is ripstop nylon, comes with one frame (3 wrap standard sized frameset).  This is the most economical Rev and a good one to start off with if money is an issue. The EXP is only available in the Standard form.  MSRP $205.00 complete, ready to fly including lines.

1.5 SLE - This is the most popular selling model.  It has a 5 panel layout (on each side), material is ripstop nylon (same as the EXP), comes packaged with one complete SLE frameset and one extra leading edge.  The SLE (stands for Super Leading Edge) is a large 7/16" rod that is nearly indestructible.  It holds the sail tighter with less flex, causing the kite to react faster and be a little more twitchier.  Some find this rod very fun to fly with but precision does suffer a little.  The 1.5 also includes the standard 3 wrap leading edge (same leading edge rods that is shipped with the EXP).  This is the preferred rod for precision and team flying as it allows the kite to bow more and absorb gusts better.  It also slows the kite down a little and makes the kite less twitchy. This model is available in SUL, Standard and Vented.  MSRP $308.00 complete ready to fly including lines.

B-Series (also referred to as the Baressi Signature Series)  This kite is the same size as the EXP and 1.5 SLE, but has a slightly different cut in the sail and also has two vertical "channels" on each wing.  The kite is made from Ripstop Polyester (not nylon) which is a lighter material.  The kite is also supplied with two complete standard framesets, the actual types are dependent on the model of kite (standard or vented).  The b-series does not come with the SLE leading edge.  This model is considered the top of the line model and usually gives the ultimate in performance and precision.  It is the most recommended model among Rev flyers.  It also is packaged with adjustable leaders on the handles that allow for fine tuning of the kite and the advanced flying DVD made by John Baressi himself. This model is available in Standard, Mid-Vent, and Full Vent.  MSRP $335.00 for the complete package.  Lines are not included in this price.

As mentioned the B-Series is available in a PRO model made exclusively by Bazzar himself.  This is an upgraded B-Series model that can be ordered in custom color combinations.  Bazzar does some added assembly details that are not financially possible with the production models but are quite nice.  The PRO is made from Icarex Ripstop Polyester and is packaged with one frame of your choice.  The PRO model is available in Standard, Mid-Vent, Full Vent and Xtra Vent.  MSRP is $360.00 for kite, bag and one frame ($440.00 for the Xtra Vent model).  Custom colors will carry an additional fee.  NO other accessories are included.

The other models are as follows:

Rev 1 - This is the kite that started it all.  The Rev 1 is the original Rev.  It is larger in size than the 1.5 series kites and is the largest Rev other than the power series.  It has a nearly 9' leading edge.  The Rev 1 is excellent in precision and because of it's larger wing surface it does very will in the lighter wind ranges.  The Rev 1 is slower in speed and rotations than the smaller 1.5 series.  It is made from Ripstop Polyester and is packaged with one frame, usually with the SLE leading edge.  MSRP $308.00 complete, ready to fly including lines.

Rev B2 -formerly known as the Rev II which is no longer made.  The B2 is the same design and panel layout as the B-Series model but in a smaller package.  The B2 is a very small and very agile kite that is super fun when the winds pick up a bit.  It has less pull than the larger models and flies very quickly through the air.  The B2 also has much more precision than the original Rev II because of the newer sail design.  It is the same size as the Rev II and uses the same frames.  The B2 comes just like the B-Series with two frames and adjustable handles.  Available in Standard and Vented. (Mid Vent can be custom ordered for a small fee).  MSRP $339.00 including lines.

Indoor - Designed specifically for indoor use.  Super ultra light, made from Ripstop Polyester.  Slightly larger than the 1.5 series, but not as big as the Rev 1.  It also has a very aggressive "V" type cut in the wing.  MSRP $290.00 including lines.

Zen - This kite is made special by Bazzar himself.  This was a design between Bazzar and Revolution for the ultimate in super ultra light winds.  The Zen is the same size as the Rev 1, but has a different cut and panel layout.  Made exclusively from Icarex Ripstop Polyester, it is assembled with the same technique and care as the B-Pro kites.  It also can be ordered in custom colors for an additional fee.  Available in only the standard version and is sold as kite, bag and the special Zen frame.  MSRP $440.00

Speed Series kites.  These are rocket ships and are super fun to fly but usually require some experience.  I normally don't recommend the speed series kites for beginners.

Supersonic - This Rev is a rocket!  The fastest Rev available.  It has been clocked over 70 mph and will fly in reverse as fast as the EXP will fly forward.  Packaged with extra leading edge rods (cuz eventually you will need them).  The speed series kites use the SLE rods for the added strength and speed.  Available in Standard and Vented.  MSRP $308.00 including lines.

Shockwave - This model is nearly identical to the Supersonic in size but is just slightly larger.  It is not quite as fast as the Sonic but has quite a bit more pull.  So if you are looking for speed and power, the Shockwave would be a great choice.  This model is still available but speculation is that it will be discontinued once stock is depleted.  It is packaged the same as the Sonic with extra rods.  MSRP $308.00 including lines.

Power Series!  These kites are designed with emphasis on power.

Blast - This kite is like having all the other kites wrapped up in one.  It is huge like the Rev 1, it is fast like the speed series, it has the power like the larger power series and still maintains some precision like the 1.5 series.  This is a good all-rounder kite if you want a little of everything.  Because of it's larger size, precision is not nearly as good but it is still a "blast" to fly. (pun intended).  Made from ripstop polyester and comes with two leading edges, SLE and standard. Available in Standard and Vented. MSRP $411.00 complete, including lines.

Power Blast 2-4 and 4-8 - These kites are designed for pure power.  Their numbers indicate the size and power equivalent. The 2-4 is a 2m sail with the power output of a typical 4m foil.  The 4-8 is a 4m sail with the power output of a typical 8m foil.  The 2-4 is a riot to fly and will drag you all over the place. The 4-8 I would only recommend to the most serious of pilots who are looking for the ultimate in power.  It is a beast to fly.  Both of these models along with the Blast work excellent for kite buggying or kite ground boarding.  They are packaged with extra replacement spars and are only available in their standard form.  MSRP $499.00 for the 2-4, $699.00 for the 4-8

Hope that helps understand the differences in the different models.  If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lowpuller on February 27, 2013, 06:57 PM
Kent,

That is awesome, thank you.  You should send that summary to Revolution to add to their web page.

I frankly have seen Revs for years in KHKs but was always hesitant to make the major investment without knowing what I was buying and there web site dose not make it easy if your not already a Rev expert.

Thanks again for the help.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: thief on February 28, 2013, 05:13 AM
i remember when a full set up EXP was 135$...and a SLE setup was under 200$...........we sold a lot of them.....


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: Gamelord on February 28, 2013, 12:06 PM
Just to note on the prices, Revolution kites are (and have always been) made right here in the U.S.A.  Because of this, the prices are a little bit more than what other kite manufacturers offer.  Rev sews their own sails, rolls their own rods, winds their own linesets (Laser Pro Gold only) and bags up their own packages.  All right here in the U.S.  Over the years as everyone knows, the prices for ripstop and carbon has increased quite a bit and Rev has absorbed a lot of those increases in price....but eventually the price had to go up.  If you compare the prices over the last 25 years that Rev has been producing kites, the increase is actually pretty marginal compared to everything else.

Here's the nicest thing.  If you have an issue, you can contact your local dealer or Revolution direct and they can fix it.  I have sent many sails into Rev for repair and they have replaced panels, done leading edge mesh repairs or replaced entire sails right in their own factory.  Many kite manufacturers don't have that ability to do that because their products are made all over the world and not in house.  Purchasing a Rev is similar to any boutique kite manufacturer, and because of such, the price is generally a bit more than your full production Chinese produced products. 

Just my opinion.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: boomertype on February 28, 2013, 12:50 PM
Just to note on the prices, Revolution kites are (and have always been) made right here in the U.S.A.  Because of this, the prices are a little bit more than what other kite manufacturers offer.  Rev sews their own sails, rolls their own rods, winds their own linesets (Laser Pro Gold only) and bags up their own packages.  All right here in the U.S.  Over the years as everyone knows, the prices for ripstop and carbon has increased quite a bit and Rev has absorbed a lot of those increases in price....but eventually the price had to go up.  If you compare the prices over the last 25 years that Rev has been producing kites, the increase is actually pretty marginal compared to everything else.

Here's the nicest thing.  If you have an issue, you can contact your local dealer or Revolution direct and they can fix it.  I have sent many sails into Rev for repair and they have replaced panels, done leading edge mesh repairs or replaced entire sails right in their own factory.  Many kite manufacturers don't have that ability to do that because their products are made all over the world and not in house.  Purchasing a Rev is similar to any boutique kite manufacturer, and because of such, the price is generally a bit more than your full production Chinese produced products. 

Just my opinion.
Well said!
And when you get a Pro, it's super Artisan, well worth the price and quality. 
Great customer service too.  If you hit a major kite festival, you will probably connect with folks from the "office".  Ben and Lolly are two great folks.  I'm glad to call them friends!


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: Tmadz on February 28, 2013, 06:33 PM
Kent, that is the best summary of the different Rev products I have ever seen. I've heard a lot about them, but never looked into the differences. I should print that out and save it for when I'm ready to get one. Mark this thread for future reference.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: lylenc on February 28, 2013, 07:05 PM
I have sent many sails into Rev for repair and they have replaced panels, done leading edge mesh repairs or replaced entire sails right in their own factory. 

I called about getting Rev II leading edge mesh replaced and was told they don't repair mesh. I think it was Lolly that I talked to.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: goestoeleven on February 28, 2013, 08:39 PM
Ok, I am suitably humbled before the excellent descriptions from Gamelord . . . . I rushed out more of my opinions than details about the sails, spars etc.

. . . I still like my EXP . . . just about any day flying any rev is better than a day at work . . .

Here's a useful link if you want to know a bit more about the full history of Revs . . . .  http://johnnmitchell.com/IntSportKites/rev_history/index.html (http://johnnmitchell.com/IntSportKites/rev_history/index.html)


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: red sweater on March 01, 2013, 08:00 AM
EXP - Very basic model, not as user friendly as the B Series 1.5

Even though Gamelord had a great rundown of the models, I don't think he echoed this comment. (At least not explicitly.) Can you elaborate? I ask because it's the only Rev I own/have ever flown. Yes, I chose it because of cost considerations. I knew it would not be the "best", but I haven't been told this "user-friendly" issue before.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: boomertype on March 01, 2013, 09:21 AM
EXP - Very basic model, not as user friendly as the B Series 1.5

Even though Gamelord had a great rundown of the models, I don't think he echoed this comment. (At least not explicitly.) Can you elaborate? I ask because it's the only Rev I own/have ever flown. Yes, I chose it because of cost considerations. I knew it would not be the "best", but I haven't been told this "user-friendly" issue before.
I said that because of two things:
Only one frame set comes with it , not two.
The EXP in my opinion does not fly with the precision of the B Series.
I flew an EXP after I learned to fly a B Series and it felt twitchy in my hands and was not as precise. I had a 1.5 SLE before I had the B Series 1.5 and the B series gave me more options.
I no longer have the SLE or the EXP. I also feel the Pro Bs fly better than the regular B Series.
If I had just an EXP I'd love it and fly it. Great kites all!


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: Gamelord on March 01, 2013, 10:00 AM
Even though the EXP and the B-Series "look" identical, if you lay them one on top of the other you will see some small differences.  They both use the same frames, but the overall cut of the design and the actual panel cut outs are very different.  The EXP is a fairly flat sail with a "straighter" cut along the leading edge.  The B-Series is a more "curved" sail and is designed to improve the channeling of the wind as it loads up on the sail.  Because of these small differences, the B-Series flows better through the air, has increased overall control and just feels nicer while flying.  The other difference is that the B-Series is a Polyester sail and the EXP is a Nylon sail.  The Nylon is a bit heavier so it takes a little more wind to get it up in the air and it has more mass when doing spins and rotations that needs to be "counter-corrected" to get the ultra fine precision that the B-Series gives away.  The  EXP doesn't "cup" the wind quite as good as the B-Series does.

Both of these features increase the cost of the kite a bunch.  The curved and more complicated sails take a lot more time to sew together and the Ripstop Polyester is nearly double the cost as the Nylon.

That being said, I have seen talented pilots do some amazing precision flying with the EXP and the 1.5 SLE.  It is capable of doing everything that the B-Series kite can do and flies nearly the exact same way.  The B-Series is just smoother and in most cases, easier to fly.  The Pro is even that much more.  I would say that John B. could use an EXP and fly a perfect routine with I-Quad no problem....he may grumble at it a little bit at times though. he he.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: red sweater on March 01, 2013, 10:28 AM
Hope this helps.

Immensely. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. And for taking the time to do so. (I hope our discussions help the OP, as well. I don't mean to derail with my own questions.)


Title: Re: Re: What is the difference in Revolution Models
Post by: timothymcmackin on March 01, 2013, 01:48 PM
Several people have weighed in on this, but I'm going to try to take a stab at this as a Rev intermediate (and because I'm bored at the moment and thinking about kites) -- maybe it'll help someone else down the line.

There are three main variables among Revs:

1. Size: Smaller kites move faster and larger kites move slower. Rev makes kites in the 1, 1.5, and 2 sizes. This is a little confusing because the 1 is the biggest and the 2 is the smallest, the opposite of how most other kinds of kites are numbered, according to sail area. (It has to do with the order the Revs were developed and released in.)

The 1.5 is the most popular, and it's generally considered a good Goldilocks size to learn on and for all-around flying. A convenient part of the sizing setup is that the Rev frames are compatible among kites of the same size, so if you have a couple 1.5 kites, you can swap frames between them to fine-tune the kite to the conditions.

2. Model: As you buy a more expensive model, you get a better quality sail (both in materials and construction, which leads to smoother, more responsive flying performance), better quality frame (which leads to better durability and wider wind range), and at the top end, the option to get custom colors on your sail, or even a whole custom-made kite. Some models come with more than one frame, which is great because you can swap in heavy or light frames for different conditions. The Rev 1 and 2 have only a few models, while the 1.5 has several.

For example, Rev 1.5s come in the following models (not counting a lot of special editions and such):
- EXP (cheapest intro model for Rev flying)
- SLE (so known because it comes with the tough, heavy Super Leading Edge frame)
- B-series (or just B's, officially "John Barressi Signature Series")
- B-series Pro (essentially a custom-sail B-series sewn with extra care by Bazzer)

3. Wind range: The kites can be geared toward a specific wind range, mostly by adding vents to let the excess wind through. Again, the 1 and the 2 have few options, while the 1.5 has more. (Swapping out frames is also an important part of adjusting the kite to the wind speed, but here I'm just talking about the sail.)

For example, the various models of Rev 1.5 come in some of the following wind ranges:
- Super-ultralight ("SUL") -- lightest wind
- Full sail (also known as "standard" or "no vent")
- Mid-vent (a few vented panels sewn into the sail)
- Full vent (more vented panels)
- Xtra vent (even more vented panels) --strongest wind

Not all of the kites come in all sizes and wind ranges. A chart might be helpful here, but it would be pretty big. For example, you can't buy an EXP mid-vent or a Rev 1 Xtra vent --Rev doesn't make them.

There are also the oddball kites like the Indoor, the Blast, the Shockwave, and the Masterpieces. These play by different rules, and they don't come in a lot of sizes or models. Then, of course, there are good quad-line kites out there not made by Rev.

I'm getting out of my intermediate knowledge realm here, but it seems to me that the way to pick a Rev is to first pick a model based on how much you're willing to invest. (Personally, I have more than got my money's worth out of my two-year-old pair of B's.) From there you can pick a size (usually start with a 1.5) and then a wind range. The wind range selection is where you might pick more than one kite, so you'd have kites for different wind speeds and a quiver of interchangeable frames.