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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: np on March 13, 2013, 08:01 AM



Title: Withdrawn
Post by: np on March 13, 2013, 08:01 AM
 :-X


Title: Re: FADE Challenge
Post by: roisinroisin21 on March 13, 2013, 08:38 AM
Wow 8)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 13, 2013, 09:17 AM

Hey Norm,

That is an interesting challange.
Never droped a fade to 2-3 feet of the ground on purpose.  :D

Out of school next week. hope to have some video


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: tpatter on March 13, 2013, 10:08 AM
This will be a very tough challenge for inland wind flyers - can't wait to see the posts! 

Tom


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: drmndrew82 on March 13, 2013, 10:16 AM
I can't wait to try this. I have been working on my fade recently, but not to this extent. I think this challenge will make me a lot better at the fade. Some steady wind will be really important for this challenge. I may need to hit the beach...


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 13, 2013, 10:29 AM
This will be a very tough challenge for inland wind flyers - can't wait to see the posts! 

Tom

you said it.   :D

I was shocked by how long I could hold a fade on my ONE ond ONLY trick to the beach.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Jimmer on March 13, 2013, 11:26 AM
 :D Little tougher to do away from the beaches' steady breeze :'(. Do you need a separate category for us's inland (lousy wind) fliers? ::)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Smeagol on March 13, 2013, 11:46 AM
Dang I just did this @ HB this past weekend, no video tho.  :'(  Guess I'll have to practice inland now.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Allen Carter on March 13, 2013, 11:49 AM
Beach wind is cheating.

An old skool SUL in beach wind is grounds for disqualification...   ;)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Allen Carter on March 13, 2013, 11:53 AM
Maybe a handicap. Only kites with tail weights in beach wind?  ::)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: trigger on March 13, 2013, 12:36 PM
I'm on it!!! and i'm gonna do it in the DARK! :)

if inland winds make you better,,,,I need to go try a beach.. I may be the best ever!!!!   ;D

thanks for the new challenge


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: red sweater on March 13, 2013, 01:34 PM
Will my tail weight help me hold the fade?

How do I control the altitude? I assume I can raise it by adding a little tension when the nose is high? Drop it by adding tension when the nose it low, or will that just make it dive at the ground? (Or is it just walking forward and backward? I remember a video telling me that the nose swings up and down. Do you have to time the tension to that swinging? But I don't see swinging in the video.)

And yeah, three feet off the ground sounds tricky inland. But I'll try it. I may have to ask for a Go Pro or similar device for my birthday. Or put our point-and-shoot on a Flavor Flav necklace.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: DD on March 13, 2013, 02:44 PM
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/review-looxcie-2-personal-video-recorder-2011113/ (http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/review-looxcie-2-personal-video-recorder-2011113/)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Ara Ararauna on March 13, 2013, 03:24 PM
Wow Norm.
That's really impressive.
Hope I can get to do it too.
At the beginning I was also thinking: what is this man doing with the lines? Is it some kind of trick to keep the fade there?
Thanks for explaining you did it just for demoing the stability. Otherwise people could have seen me going crazy wild with the lines while trying to fade  :-[

Hope to try it nex weekend (with the weather's permission)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Allen Carter on March 13, 2013, 03:51 PM

This can be done just as easy with a Standard kite (weights included) and the proper wind speed.
 


Does this mean that all kites are equally stable in a fade?

That has definitely not been my experience.

A standard weight version of the same kite often has very similar fade characteristics to a lighter version, but you can't compare a standard weight modern trick kite to a purpose built old school SUL like the one in the example video.

Some of the better kites fade great with the stock tail weight in place, but many fade better with no tail weight. Many kites do lots of things better with no tail weight, other than roll up.

In my experience stability in a fade is dependent on two main factors. Kite design and wind quality. A kite like the Breeze in steady wind isn't as much of a test of flyer skill as a heavy, flippy kite in funky wind would be. If this is to be a skills contest then the playing field may be so uneven as to make the result meaningless.

I think these challenges are great, and I don't want to rain on any parade, I just want to make sure newer fliers and folks in less fortunate locations know what they are trying to do in comparison to the example video.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: tpatter on March 13, 2013, 04:52 PM
To me, the SUL version of kites I've flown always seem extra stable in a fade in decent wind.  Also the flatter the sail, its crazy stable to the point that you have a tough time rocking it out.

I think its a fair challenge.  We've already shared some knowledge of what we think would help in this challenge, so we're already learning! 

In bumpy wind, a minute is a long time, but its do-able.  For sure, if you can do it in in-land bumpy wind, you will likely know more about what it takes to hold and control a fade than someone who can do it in lab-grade wind.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: red sweater on March 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
Some of the better kites fade great with the stock tail weight in place, but many fade better with no tail weight. Many kites do lots of things better with no tail weight, other than roll up.

Shoot, I was hoping it would be a general rule. Common sense tells me a weight would keep the tail lower, and the nose higher, making the fade more stable. I could easily be underestimating what the weight increase does, however, and I could accept that a weight always makes a fade harder for that reason.

But this "it depends" answer is frustrating.

How about this question. Should I use the weight for either of the two kites I'll be trying this trick with: Nirvana (first edition), and Silver Fox Pro UL? (Or are you guys not experienced enough with these kites to give a good answer?)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: hawkerhunter on March 13, 2013, 11:19 PM
Time to break out the Elixir me thinks. Nice challenge Norm.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 14, 2013, 11:51 AM
Norm, thanks for the challange.

Think I completed the challange with my old school ProWren (per Norms review and judgement) but the kite made it easy, so its not enought to earn a pair of finger straps.  :(

1st video is just the completed challange.
Yes that is me talking to some kids at 1:25 (I walked onto their practice area while backing up). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAFT7hntNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAFT7hntNc)

2nd video is like watching paint dry but shows the difference between ProWren and WM UL. ProWren flight is non edited showing only 3 attempts needed. WM flight starts at 3:52. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWUMBonXa8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWUMBonXa8)


Couple of points.
  • Flew the WM UL with tail weight, then without tail weight and upper spreader when the wind dropped. Didn't notice any changes.
  • Getting the kite 3 feet of the ground is a big challange for inland wind. You can see how much the ProWren starts rocking each of the 3 times I got near the ground.
  • Higher level of difficulty. While both kites started rocking I did not have the skills to stop it with the WM. I was most disappointed when I nailed the entry to the fade and it locked in, only to have it fall out without warning during a wind shift.
  • A modern trick kite and inland winds greatly increase the level of difficulty.

Wayne
 


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 14, 2013, 03:32 PM
Very cool Wayne!  It was fun to see that your WM UL is the same sail as my WM Std. I didn't think anyone else had those original colors. It's still my favorite.

I get a lot of comments on the color too. People come up to me saying "I knew that was you when I saw that kite again"  ;D


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Mayfirst on March 14, 2013, 07:28 PM
Whoever said beaches are the best for flying kites due to their stable winds.. I live right next to the damn ocean and I've been waiting for 3 days for a decent enough breeze so I could try this! The wind is literally 0 m/s, hour after another, even on an island 7 km away from the continent surrounded by nothing but a frozen sea. *keeps updating the weather info* Supposedly it takes the rest of the week before we get any proper breezes again. (And no, I don't own any zero to extremely light wind designs.) :'(


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Mayfirst on March 14, 2013, 08:16 PM
I guess it depends on where you are. Also, even living next to the beach, there are weeks straight that are un-flyable. Or you just had the bad luck to go out kiting the one day in the week that the wind wasn't there. Kiting definitely teaches patience.

I can't tell you how many times I've set up, and tried to fly and just couldn't keep the kite going. Packed up in frustration, and just as I'm winding up the lines, here comes some wind. DO NOT give in to the temptation to set back up... the wind will disappear as soon as you're ready to fly again...  :D

This is the average wind chart for my town. Look yours up, I'm sure you'll be surprised.

([url]http://ferob.com/kites/AvgWind.jpg[/url])



Here's ours for the past week, of course I missed the only window I had Thursday afternoon, other than that, nature has something against me.

(http://www.saapalvelu.fi/helsinki/graphs/week/WindSpeedHistory.gif)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Allen Carter on March 14, 2013, 08:22 PM
The curve around here is opposite. Steady wind spring & summer and in winter total dead zones, unless it's storming. And generally if it's storm wind it's really funky and coming from the wrong direction.

Until I learned how to fly in 0 wind, winter was bleak...


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Allen Carter on March 14, 2013, 08:30 PM
The beach wind thing is no miracle, just nature. When wind moves across a large expanse of flat, even temperature water or land it smooths out. Becomes more linear.

These days most land near inhabited areas, even if flat, has uneven temperatures. Inland wind has obstacles and uneven temperatures to deal with. You could be out in a nice big field with no hills or buildings in the way but the super highway up wind is putting off enough heat to make what might have been a nice 4mph breeze into an exercise in frustration.

Another factor is that large bodies of water (especially oceans) don't change temperature from day to night the way a lot of urban land masses do.

I fly in a major metropolitan area, but we have the advantage of a bay which tames winds nicely. When the wind shifts and comes in from the SE over San Jose it generally sucks. Luckily it's from the NNW most days and pretty damn good.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Mayfirst on March 14, 2013, 08:34 PM
The curve around here is opposite. Steady wind spring & summer and in winter total dead zones, unless it's storming. And generally if it's storm wind it's really funky and coming from the wrong direction.

Until I learned how to fly in 0 wind, winter was bleak...

Yeah my next buy will be a SUL. ;D It's funny how I never thought about the winds that much until I started getting interested in kites.. I usually had nothing to complain as long as it wasn't flying trees around, and now I find something wrong with every kind of wind.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Mayfirst on March 14, 2013, 09:23 PM
Sunday is my flying day. Your wind looks perfect last Sunday. If anything, most of those days I would be flying a vented kite. Looking at your chart, there are certain times of the day that have good wind, almost every day. I'm sure you'll find the good wind soon !

Yeah but that doesn't tell it all, only two days ago it stopped snowing and it's been a steady -15 to -20 Celsius so when those two are included, I've had a preferable weather only since Wednesday, but since then the wind has been, well, avoiding me. I don't mind the butt-freezing conditions, I actually enjoy the cold, as long as it doesn't snow and we get at least a light breeze when I wanna go kiting. The only time I couldn't go was when we had a nice breeze according to the chart. :( That's why I've had so much time to bug the hell outta yall, just waiting for the wind. ;D


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: lilabner on March 15, 2013, 07:34 AM
I can hold my fade for 60 sec. on a consistent basis. But I'm not going to go much longer than 60 - 90 sec.  :'(  :(  ;)
As my wingtips/leading eadges ocilate up & down, I usually just roll out when the ocilating gets too extreme. IS THERE A WAY to control this ocilation???

Thanks Much
Ab


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 15, 2013, 10:03 AM
Whoever said beaches are the best for flying kites due to their stable winds.. I live right next to the damn ocean and I've been waiting for 3 days for a decent enough breeze so I could try this! The wind is literally 0 m/s, hour after another, even on an island 7 km away from the continent surrounded by nothing but a frozen sea. *keeps updating the weather info* Supposedly it takes the rest of the week before we get any proper breezes again. (And no, I don't own any zero to extremely light wind designs.) :'(

Beaches are great for wind quality.
 
Your talking about wind speed (or lack of it). It is even worse inland. That why I have 6 SUL's: Wren, ProWren, Amazing, ProDancer, AB+, & Airwave Zero   


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 15, 2013, 10:16 AM
I found myself trying to manage your lines from my computer chair. I can't believe how many times it appeared the kite would be going out of fade and some how you managed to hold it. Good job and tpatter was correct.......again.....It is do-able with in-land wind. I didn't put a stop watch on the lowered portion, but it's close enough for this ol' guy. 
Let me know which straps you NEED.  :D  ;)
([url]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8558967948_58e8d2cb4c_m.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigfoot1945/8558967948/[/url])



Norm I like your thin webbing the best.  ;D


Describe your wind conditions for the other competitors..........please.  ;D 



Winds were between 2mph and about 9mph changing every couple of minutes.
Really like my Infinity for the fade, but the wind keep dropping to low to use it.

Didn't include it in the video but started with the WM UL. First two attemps the kite just floated down from lack of wind so I switched to a SUL. When I went back to the WM, pulled out the weight and upper spreader to match the low wind conditions. The sail distorted during the higher winds in normal flight but, not a problem when the kite was in the fade.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Mayfirst on March 15, 2013, 11:16 AM
Just wanted to throw a question related to the topic (all the topics seem to get hijacked, hopefully I'm not to blame), so which kite in Your opinion is the best "fader"? *stirs the beehive* ;D Or is there even such a kite. Or are all decent kites just as good at it as long as the other end of the lines is in experienced hands? I understand it depends on the weather and so on and so forth, but if we skip the whole STD/UL and weather point of it, basically it comes down to this: which kite did you choose for this challenge? :)

Might be a stupid question, so pardon my "newbieness". I'm just eager to learn.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: rudyy on March 15, 2013, 11:55 AM
I used to have a Zero-Star.  I remembered at one time I could put it into the fade, staked the lines to the ground and then stood right underneath the kite which was still in the fade position.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Ara Ararauna on March 15, 2013, 12:11 PM
I found myself trying to manage your lines from my computer chair. I can't believe how many times it appeared the kite would be going out of fade and some how you managed to hold it. Good job and tpatter was correct.......again.....It is do-able with in-land wind. I didn't put a stop watch on the lowered portion, but it's close enough for this ol' guy. 
Let me know which straps you NEED.  :D  ;)
([url]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8558967948_58e8d2cb4c_m.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigfoot1945/8558967948/[/url])



Norm I like your thin webbing the best.  ;D




Well done Wayne!  :D
I'm really envious but also very happy for you.

I will try to practice this weekend so please nobody else post another video!  :o
 :'(




Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on March 15, 2013, 12:21 PM


Well done Wayne!  :D
I'm really envious but also very happy for you.

I will try to practice this weekend so please nobody else post another video!  :o
 :'(



Ara,
Hope you have success. Can't wait to hear how it goes.



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Mayfirst on March 15, 2013, 01:44 PM
Many of the Old Skool SULs are very stable in a Fade.
Benson InnerSpace, PKC Pro Wren and Prism Vapor are three that come to mind.

Some years ago I was flying my InnerSpace in very smooth beach breezes, but there was a pesky loose Jack Russell terrier that was on the hunt for it and its owner was obliviously wandering around and not paying attention.

To make matters worse, I used to use the old Prism Roll-up Bag and had it on the ground by my car, with a dozen or so kites in their sleeves. Yet another off the leash dog in an on-leash park was wandering around, looking for places to empty his bladder. His path would lead to my kite bag and the thought of having some very nice kites smelling like dog urine did not appeal to me.

I couldn't land the InnerSpace or it would be a Jack Russell chew toy, so I put the Benson in  a Fade, staked it and trotted over to the kite bag to intercept the incontinent dog.

I got the kite bag rolled up and back in the car, looked over to see the InnerSpace still hovering weightlessly in the breeze, so I rolled up my SLKs, lines, line laundry and tails and started to put them all away.

Maybe 20 minutes later, as I was nearly all wrapped up, a couple of older gentlemen came over to ask me about that "unusual kite" that was still up. It seemed to be upside-down and they thought there was something wrong with it.

I walked back to the InnerSpace, pulled the stake out and got it out of the Fade and flew it to show them there was nothing wrong with the kite.

It was just resting.  ;)

Haha oh my God, a good reminder why I probably should never take my german shepherd with me, even though I never let her off the leash in public places. Originally I thought it would be fun to have her hang out with me while I'm flying the kite, a good outdoor hobby as I can include the dog , but she's been dangerously curious of the kite even when it's just leaning against the wall in my apartment. Better not take her with me as long as I don't have a friend who can hold on to her.

And madhabitz, I'll try my best not to get distracted from the topic in the future. Sometimes it just feels silly to start a new topic for something so closely related. :)


But back to the fade related discussion again, thank you for your replies folks! It's nice tho hear your opinions and reasons, hopefully one day I'm experienced enough to answer questions like this myself. :)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Ara Ararauna on March 15, 2013, 02:50 PM
Well done Wayne!  :D
I'm really envious but also very happy for you.
I will try to practice this weekend so please nobody else post another video!  :o
 :'(
Get that Talon UL in a Fade Launch........slowly walk forward until it is 3 feet off the ground. Hold it there for a few seconds and then step back slowly. I KNOW you can do it.  :P


I have done it but only at the beach and with VERY good wind...
I don't know whether the conditions will be with me.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Charles P on March 15, 2013, 10:28 PM
Hoping to get a crack at this challenge myself (though I think this one will be over soon) but I am still determined to get a "good" video of myself performing the AVFFF, so all my efforts are still concentrated on that trick.
 We are going on almost a straight month of bad kiting weather here right now and this weekend looks dismal as well.
  I'm hoping to be able to post something in the near future if the freak'n weather will chill out.    >:(
  Congrats to Wayne and good luck to all. 
    :)



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: red sweater on March 16, 2013, 10:06 AM
Just got back from two hours of flying this morning. I have a lot of work ahead of me.

I read a review of the SF (STD in the review, but mine is an UL) on Kite Life saying it was twitchy/unstable in a fade. Because of that, I was really hoping to use the Nirvana STD to do this. Well, I barely had enough wind to keep the SF UL in the air, without the US. Once I finally remembered to tighten the leech line, it got better.

Fade launches sucked. The kite would fall to the ground right after, unless I was backpeddling at a decent rate. I could hold it for 5-10 seconds, before it dove at the ground. I did get the lauches down better, though. I've read that it needs to be a sweeping motion. Well, that's not the whole of it, from what I saw. Trying to "sweep" it always made it stop the rotation pointed at the ground for me. It needs to start slow, to get the tail up a bit, but then I'd accelerate the motion to get it rotating and quickly throw slack to catch it on the lower bridle legs. That worked pretty well. So, at least I'm improving.

But the wind at the deck was terrible. I'm thinking, inland, at least, I'll need to get into a fade up higher. I took my first stabs at spin axels. I think I'm getting good at them. They're not too tricky. I haven't managed to fracture one, though. I've only once fractured an axel, on accident, at the edge of the window.

Eventually, the wind picked up, so I got out the Nirvana STD. It's lighter-than-stock framing kept it flying in lighter winds than I would have guessed. My only other STD is the Quantum, and I haven't flown the Nirvana much yet. It surprised me. Same deal on the fade launches, though. The wind near the gound would not keep it up.

I expect it will be a while before I can manage to get those straps. I'm gonna have to get out to the beach more this year than last, or it might take ages. I appreciate the challenge and encouragement, though. I enjoyed today's session, even if there were frequent lulls in the wind. I probably wouldn't have even gone out today without the motivation.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Wayner on March 16, 2013, 07:20 PM


I did get the lauches down better, though. I've read that it needs to be a sweeping motion. Well, that's not the whole of it, from what I saw. Trying to "sweep" it always made it stop the rotation pointed at the ground for me. It needs to start slow, to get the tail up a bit, but then I'd accelerate the motion to get it rotating and quickly throw slack to catch it on the lower bridle legs. That worked pretty well. So, at least I'm improving.

The inputs to pulling into the fade is vary a lot by for kite. Glad you found one that works for you.


Fade launches sucked. The kite would fall to the ground right after, unless I was backpeddling at a decent rate. I could hold it for 5-10 seconds, before it dove at the ground.

Sounds like you got the fade launch down and are working on the rasing fade.


Eventually, the wind picked up, so I got out the Nirvana STD. It's lighter-than-stock framing kept it flying in lighter winds than I would have guessed.
It will fly in even lower wind if you remove the upper spreader and tail weight ;)


I haven't managed to fracture one, though. I've only once fractured an axel, on accident, at the edge of the window.

At least you know you can do it.



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: mikenchico on March 17, 2013, 12:02 AM
I never see hijacks,although we do tend to branch out in different directions sometimes, but there's always something that seems to instigate it .... oops .... this thread is starting to look like my family tree   :D

Congrats Wayner, looked like some challenging conditions you had to deal with there.



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Ara Ararauna on March 17, 2013, 12:16 PM
Argh! Sh*t* winds this weekend.  >:(
Yesterday would rip branches off trees and today very light and silly gusty breeze.

I went out this afternoon for almost two hours.
No way I could do a fade...
Most of the time rowing like crazy with my Talon UL and basically using the small gusts to do a couple of axels or 540.

Hopefully next weekend
So I'll have to have quite a bit of patience before I can achieve the challenge...  :(
Please bear with me.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Wayner on March 17, 2013, 02:14 PM
Argh! Sh*t* winds this weekend.  >:(
Yesterday would rip branches off trees and today very light and silly gusty breeze.

I went out this afternoon for almost two hours.
No way I could do a fade...
Most of the time rowing like crazy with my Talon UL and basically using the small gusts to do a couple of axels or 540.

Hopefully next weekend
So I'll have to have quite a bit of patience before I can achieve the challenge...  :(
Please bear with me.


Sorry the hear that. Sounds like the extremes of our local winds  >:(

Time for a SUL.  ;)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: vertigo2u on March 18, 2013, 10:11 AM
Wow !!!! Norm you got all kinds of action going on.  I've been gone a few days and everyone is active.  Nice to see... I was in Kentucky for four days.  Temp. hit 72 degrees Saturday..Really nice. came home to snow again... Didn't bring a kite.  Knee is feeling better.  But still a bit sore.  That video of you flying the Fade makes me want to cry...  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( .
 That is my goal as I stated.  You got some crazy Fade flying hands.  Seriously because I struggle so much with that Fade.  Watching you hold her for so long.  It encourages me to stay focused and read all the input.  I do well from a Fade launch but that is not acceptable.  I have to pancake to Fade.  Hold her and fly her.  I really appreciate the video and feed.  However side of my knee is still tender and the snow prevents anytime to practice this week.  I'll be peeking in and re-reading input...


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Wayner on March 18, 2013, 01:02 PM
I was in Kentucky for four days.  Temp. hit 72 degrees Saturday..Really nice. came home to snow again... That video of you flying the Fade makes me want to cry... 

I do well from a Fade launch but that is not acceptable.  I have to pancake to Fade.  Hold her and fly her. 

Make your next trip to the beach not Kentucky to hold those long fades.  :D


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Allen Carter on March 18, 2013, 01:12 PM
Never fails, I go away for a couple of days and something interesting happens. Why did skb take down his posts? Who else did? What did I miss??? ???


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: red sweater on March 19, 2013, 02:23 PM
You are probably finding out by now (if you haven't already) why we have a bag full of kites. You should have an SUL if you don't already. The HQ Breeze I am flying in the video is an SUL. Old school, so it does great Long Fades, Perfect Pinwheels, Slow Axels, Never ending Side Slides, and
absolutely beautiful 540's. After learning these trick on the SUL you transfer them to your Standards. It sounded like you needed a SUL bad. You can still find a HQ Breeze if you're looking. Let me know if your interested in one or put a listing in the Wanted Section. Are there better quality SUL's? Yep, and they cost a bunch more. The Breeze I know is $116.00. Great SUL, especially for the price.

I appreciate every response to my post about my Saturday sesson.

Yes, a SUL is probably in order. Everything I read about the Breeze is positive, and that's much more affordable than I figured. It fits in the budget, and will get me flying more. So, I am quite interested. Should I post in the Wanted section, or did you have something up your sleeve?

In response to a comment about shaving weight, yes, I was flying without tail weights for both kites, and without the upper spreader for the SF. I tried leaving the spreader in for the Nirvana when winds picked up, and it still had sufficient drive.

I do need to work on the pancake to fade. I've never pulled it off quite right, but I suspect I'm closer on that than on the fractured axel. Especially now that I've found the right touch for a fade launch for these two kites.

I hope to get out again this weekend, and the next I'll be at the DC festival. But I have to get over this cold first.

Thanks again for all the helpful responses.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Wayner on March 23, 2013, 11:16 AM
Norm,

I got them, just check the mail box.

now I can replace a old pair of HQ straps.

Wayne


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: roisinroisin21 on March 23, 2013, 05:13 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8582660317_e6ccec0506_s.jpg)




Grounded  :(


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Wayner on March 23, 2013, 06:20 PM
([url]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8582660317_e6ccec0506_s.jpg[/url])




Grounded  :(


Simon,

fine English weather  ::)

hope it dries out soon.

Were you going to use your Talon UL for the challange?

Wayne


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: roisinroisin21 on March 24, 2013, 03:22 AM
i would have used a refuse sack given the chance lol


English weather ,,,  barfffs






Yeah the UL would have worked sweet


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: vertigo2u on March 28, 2013, 10:50 AM
Weather still a problem.  It won't be long... I plan on Working the Fade over and over again.  Till I can hold it for 5 minutes.  I have held them a long time.  Biggest problem is going from a Pancake to fade.  Fade launchs.  I do.  Frustrating.  Sore Knee, Chilly Westher ... reminds me of that old Spiritual song. 

"... No body knows the trouble I've seen... Dadadada ... No body knows but Jesus...".  Beeb signing this all Winter long.   :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Charles P on March 31, 2013, 11:45 PM
 Well, I've got the one minute in a fade handled, now if I can just get the kite to stay in the fade as I try to decend and hold it low to the ground!!!   
 Can not seem to control the kites attitude as I descend, it starts oscillating and BAM!!  Lawn dart.     :'( :'(
I did start smoothing out my descents later in the day today but to hold the fade low to the ground is going to be tough!

 


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 01, 2013, 01:28 AM
Argh... no good winds these days

Out of all Easter week, I've flown only twice.
One day in 25Km/h with gusts of up to 32Km/h and trying to do "something" at the edges of the window.   ::)
Another day with good strength (~8Km/h) but constantly changing direction from SW to N and gusty  ::)  :(
So I've had the worst flying holidays in my (short) flying history   >:(   :(

The rest of days, either no wind (I need an SUL or almost Indoor!) or horrible gusty wind so not even attempted to fly.
Yesterday I took out my Conyne and a 200m line and got it all the way up... (my height record) the only real flying I've been able to do.

So for the time being, I have not even been able to try to fade, let alone trying to keep it there for one minute or even less try to lower it...

Why is nature so cruel?  :(


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: RobB on April 01, 2013, 04:50 AM
Patience... good wind doesn't always come on a holiday. In fact, it rarely is there when you have off from work. I think that I get 10 GOOD days each year. The rest of the good days are when I'm working. What you have to do is steal that wind back... keep your kites in your car & go when the wind is good. Either go on your way to work, your way home, at lunch, or blow off work all together !
I got some flying this weekend, but just as Ara said, it wasn't a weekend for smooth wind. At least not here...


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: lylenc on April 01, 2013, 10:05 AM
Biggest problem is going from a Pancake to fade. 

Try sweep pulling for the fade before the nose gets all the way into the pancake position and the lines go slack, aka kill the rotation into the pancake. Vary the timing a little earlier or later as you change from kite to kite, as the sweet spot seems to be kite dependent. The sweet spot gets wider once you figure out the technique.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 01, 2013, 10:46 AM
Biggest problem is going from a Pancake to fade. 

Try sweep pulling for the fade before the nose gets all the way into the pancake position and the lines go slack, aka kill the rotation into the pancake. Vary the timing a little earlier or later as you change from kite to kite, as the sweet spot seems to be kite dependent. The sweet spot gets wider once you figure out the technique.

Hope this is not an April fools suggestion  ;)

No, really, what do you mean by "sweep pull"?
Is it not a brusque pull, as in making the kite jump from the pancake to the fade?
Is it more like a pull constantly until the kite is swept from the pancake to the fade?

I have tried that in my kites in the past but have never gotten any results... the kites just either stay in the pancake or they dart down.
But I haven't tried it for a while. Maybe the experience I have gained in the past few months will make me get better results...

Any more clues are welcome!
Thanks



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 01, 2013, 02:31 PM
Yep  :)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: lylenc on April 01, 2013, 05:24 PM
No, really, what do you mean by "sweep pull"?
Is it not a brusque pull, as in making the kite jump from the pancake to the fade?
Is it more like a pull constantly until the kite is swept from the pancake to the fade?

No April Fools joke. if the wrist snap rotation back to a fade isn't working for you, try a sweep motion and early kill of the flair/pancake to see if that will work.

Sometimes you can bang away with just wrist snaps. Sometimes times you need a finesse sweep motion to kill the flair/pancake early so you don't knock the kite out of the wind and sky. Other times, you may need some combination of techniques. The technique varies depending on which portion of the wind range the conditions are, type of kite, and mood/music styles, at least for me.
 
I fly mostly SUL & UL kites. Especially at the low end of the wind range, I may need to use my hands as a shock absorber to take up slack to kill the flair/pancake early and use a sweeping motion and/or wrist snap to get back to fade position. With a standard kite or higher end of the wind range, I can get away with less or no sweep motion and add more wrist snap to rotate back to the fade.

The varying wind conditions and types of kites make learning tricks difficult. Play around until you figure out what is your personal preference. There is more than one way to skin the cat.



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: red sweater on April 02, 2013, 06:41 AM
I assume the motion to go from pancake to fade is the same (or close enough?) as a fade launch? As I posted earlier, I had success doing the fade launch with a slow motion to start, until the tail starts rising, then a quick flick, and of course lots of slack. (Once the kite is in a downwards flying position, you already need to have thrown slack. Any tension at this point makes it dive. Think about the bridle and which connection to the kite is furthest from you. That is the point that will be pulled if you apply tension. Any tension at/after the halfway point stops the rotation.) Starting with a quick motion always made the tail jump up, but never rotated the nose all the way around. I'm hoping the fade launch transfers to the pancake to fade. That's my next goal. I've never done it, not even once. Heck, most of the time I have trouble even pancaking.

I just need that SUL to arrive from Aussieland and a couple free hours on a Saturday to give this a try.


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge" (NOW HI-JACKED)
Post by: Charles P on April 02, 2013, 11:20 PM


 I may need to use my hands as a shock absorber to take up slack to kill the flair/pancake early and use a sweeping motion and/or wrist snap to get back to fade position.



 If I may add to this because I think some of Lylenc's advise may be lost in translation. Some kites prefer a stopping motion in the pancake before pulling into the fade.  (Lylenc's "shock absorber" )
 My Deepspace UL is a good example of this and I am still working the bugs out but....
 You may want to think of it as three inputs to get to the fade when flying straight down from the top of the window.

1) Slack to get the kite into the pancake   (you may also want to play with how flat you go as well maybe try stopping before the kite is completely flat)

2) A small tug or good line tending to take up slack and stop the rotation  (Lylenc's shock absorber)

3) Either a sharp tug or a steady pull to bring the kite to the fade position, and yes the steady pull is very similar to the fade launch.

 I hope this might be of some help and good luck!

 Off subject but I just recieved my straps from Norm P. in the mail today.  Thank you sir!!     8)

  Hoping to get out this weekend and use them to try this fade challenge if the rain will hold off!!
 


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Hadge on April 03, 2013, 03:51 AM
For those who haven't already seen it, I found this helpful when I was learning.

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213804747 (http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213804747)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: RobB on April 03, 2013, 04:36 AM
Reggie's lessons will help ! I printed them all out and would read them over and over. Try to visualize at the same time, or use a paper kite prop if you're bad at visualizing like me.

There's also a wealth of information over at Classy Kite. Beginners used to get great tips there from RandyG & Mama74 (Martin), the guys who made the videos !

http://classykite.org/ck/forum/YaBB.pl?board=tricktreat (http://classykite.org/ck/forum/YaBB.pl?board=tricktreat)



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: vertigo2u on May 10, 2013, 10:14 AM
Held a Fade for about two minutes yesterday... Finally figured out my Biggest problem...I opened up ny arms and hands.  I was watching Martins video and I noticed like Norm his arms were wider apart than I normally have them... Yesterday the wider the longer I held the Fade.  When I brought my hands in close.  It wobbled till I went down ( real quick). It felt good watching the Solus just float... Just might have gotten it finally....


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: drmndrew82 on May 10, 2013, 12:35 PM
That makes a lot of sense putting your hands wider when holding a fade. I am going to try this today when I go fly after work. Thanks for the info!


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: jaydub on May 10, 2013, 03:59 PM
Guess we're all different, because I find it helps to hold them together to know the lines are equal (although this does require your lines to be equal lengths in the first place!).


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Wayner on May 11, 2013, 10:02 PM

I have used both.

Hands together offers better feel and motor control.

Hand apart provide better leverage. Good once you develop feel needed for the fade.  IMHO


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: trigger on May 15, 2013, 10:23 PM
I finally got an AWESOME FADE!  I've probably done 6 ever, this one was PERFECT.   5ft off the ground, we just stared at each other for what seemed like an hour(i was only out for 30 minutes so it was probably 30+sec)  I found it relatively easy to raise and lower until the  shifty winds came. 

Thanks to everyone for all the tips!

Going to GLKF in grand haven, mi this weekend. I will see how the lake winds are and will have plenty of people to help video.



Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: Charles P on June 02, 2013, 12:16 AM
 This challenge has been a bit more of a "Challenge" than I expected. I have not been able to do this one at my home field as of yet, which is in Puget Sound. (on the water but not on the coast) 
 I went to the coast today for the kite festival at Ocean Shores, WA. figured I would give this challenge a go and as luck would have it I think I actually pulled it off today.
 Problem is that I did not expect to even get close as I have been struggling to get the 10 seconds just above the deck and therefore did not have a camera rolling but in todays nearly perfect coastal winds of 7mph I was able to descend to the low altitude fade, hold it for what seemed to be 10 seconds and rise back out of it.
 
  I'm starting to think that we might need steady costal winds for this challenge but I intend to give it go again at my home field very soon, (with a camera rolling) but I may need another good day at the beach to get this one!
 


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: trigger on June 11, 2013, 10:43 AM
I'm on it this week! maybe thursday if winds are nice. I have a new sul coming, we'll see how that goes :)


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: vertigo2u on June 18, 2013, 08:39 AM
This is on my radar ....  i can Fade Launch but still trouble from pancake.. That Aura could seal the deal...  Have to do it with Widow Maker also... Aura is pice of cake...


Title: Re: FADE "Trick Challenge"
Post by: vertigo2u on June 19, 2013, 10:18 AM
btw:  I changed back to keeping my hands in close.  Holding the Fade.  That was #1 of 1-2-3... Couldn't change that.  One close two back behind and three extending out all the way... ;D ;D ;D

The Fade launch I did with the Aura was incredible.  Just floated up and stayed that way.  Wind was extremely low.  However if it was same same out of the south.  The kite would have stayed up forever...