GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: butaford on March 16, 2013, 02:36 PM



Title: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 16, 2013, 02:36 PM
Newbie here.  I have two TOTL Hawaiian team kites from the 80's. They were my Dads kites but have been sitting for 20+ years. They look to be in pretty good shape. I flew them as a kid but I have no clue how to put them together or what needs to be inspected before flying them again. What kind of wind do these need to fly? Any info appreciated.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: RobB on March 16, 2013, 03:12 PM
As far as wind, mine likes ~8mph-15mph. It starts to pull like a truck at that point, so I put it away before it breaks the lines.

(http://ferob.com/kites/P1080512.jpg)

Are yours as old as this one ?


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 16, 2013, 04:48 PM
I know they are mid to late 80s. Will get some pics when I get home.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 16, 2013, 07:37 PM
Can't post any pics. Says uploader is full.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: white wing lover on March 16, 2013, 11:52 PM
Here they are, looks like you have one of them set up. Nice combo of colors on the blue... Hot and Cold running kites...
Get one in each hand and hold on tight  ;)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Sfvwf-yuozc/UUVnUZRvYZI/AAAAAAAAAic/Qma9k2saCp4/s800/2013-03-16_21-04-12_603.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NPYCQe2sEsE/UUVnSAu8VJI/AAAAAAAAAiY/tF4BuUKxokA/s800/2013-03-16_22-43-13_242.jpg)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on March 17, 2013, 12:16 AM
Check over the vinyl connectors the spreaders go into, but one of mine is from 1988 and they are still fine. The elastics that tension the sail may have died over they years if exposed to much heat, if they don't have good elasticity still Steve right here at GWTW/Chico Kites stocks replacements. I'd check the bridle for any fraying or deterioration too. Don must've used good glue on the ferrules as I've never had one fail so your probably safe there. If you inherited the original Kevlar lines many of us used back then you might check them or replace them, Kevlar degrades from UV exposure so if they've seen a lot of use they may be weakened. New Kevlar is yellow, they degrade to and orange/umber color, if they get much darker and are getting fuzzy it's probably time to retire them, those kites should be flown on 150-200 lb test line in all but their lowest wind range.

(I can stay on thread ... sometimes)



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: white wing lover on March 17, 2013, 07:19 AM
This pair would look great stacked... 8)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 17, 2013, 06:28 PM
Took the blue and purple one out today. Only got to fly for about 5 minutes before my little boy decided he had to go pee. Flew good, even drug my 230 lb. butt around a little! ;D


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Wayner on March 17, 2013, 07:20 PM
Took the blue and purple one out today. Only got to fly for about 5 minutes before my little boy decided he had to go pee. Flew good, even drug my 230 lb. butt around a little! ;D

Yep, it drags my 240 lb butt around too,  :)   Try stacking them  ???


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Michel on March 19, 2013, 04:19 AM
(http://kite-and-friends.de/lenkdrachen/die-traumdrachen-der-pionierzeit/wp-content/files/lenkdrachen_0213/aufmacher.jpg)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on March 19, 2013, 05:23 AM
No way... 25!?  :o
That's Photoshop in action...   :-\


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on March 20, 2013, 10:17 PM
No repeats in colors, it's either a dang good photoshop or it's real. I'd bet it's real, it still wouldn't be the craziest thing ever done with kites.




Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Ca Ike on March 20, 2013, 11:56 PM
No way... 25!?  :o
That's Photoshop in action...   :-\

Nope thats real but its not the full size team kite in that stack.  Probably the 3/4 hawaiian.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: white wing lover on March 21, 2013, 03:46 PM
No way... 25!?  :o
That's Photoshop in action...   :-\

Nope thats real but its not the full size team kite in that stack.  Probably the 3/4 hawaiian.

Hmmm...
Can't quite decide on the P.S. aspect. The vanishing point isn't quite right on the sizing from top to bottom and the wind on the waves seems to be in a different direction...
Either way, a real stack with a strong flyer or a decent P.S. effort...  8)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Ca Ike on March 21, 2013, 04:39 PM
The photoshopping is in the words and a bit of enhancing. I've seen that pic before but not with the captions.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on March 22, 2013, 08:15 AM
That photo has been around for longer then Photoshop has been around, late 1980's - early 1990's.

I don't recall the 3/4 being made with the full Chevron Pattern, the ones I saw were somewhat simplified I thought, with the main 4 wing panels being a single color rather then split into two colors but Don made them as he went, that's why there was such a variety of color combinations so there may have been full paneled 3/4's.

There was also a picture Pam Kirk posted of her flying a massive stack like that, I couldn't locate it so it must've been on the old forum, it was 15 or 25.

Troy Gunn could probably vouch for the validity of that photo - which gives me the idea to drop him a PM to see if he would be interested in helping us compile a list of kite records, I think he witnesses or was involved in many of those old attempts. Sort of like the old Al Hargus thread on the history of Sport Kite Competitions that was on the old forum. I still have that old history archived somewhere too if there's any interest.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: white wing lover on March 22, 2013, 06:55 PM

There was also a picture Pam Kirk posted of her flying a massive stack like that, I couldn't locate it so it must've been on the old forum, it was 15 or 25.


That would be an interesting sight to see. She might well be lifted off the ground... ;)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: DD on March 22, 2013, 07:05 PM
i remember there being a discussion either here on the old forum or on fractured axel forum about it.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 22, 2013, 07:31 PM
Wondering what the black marks are on the bridles are for?


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on March 22, 2013, 07:43 PM
Would adding standoffs be beneficial?  If so, what parts would I need?


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on March 23, 2013, 09:19 AM
Adding stand offs is essential, TOTL released a retrofit kit for them.

It was simply 4 pieces of probably 1/4" vinyl tubing cross drilled to fit over the center battens and the spreaders, just like the stock leading edge connectors are built. Then some 'far too flexible' fiberglass rod for the standoffs. I would suggest using 3 or 4 mm carbon rod instead. I swapped those original flexible fiberglass originals out for the A20 fiberglass tubing on my original in short order.

To attach the fitting on the batten you simply take off the elastic bungee and slip the connector over and past the nock then re-attach the elastic, the standoffs sit at a large angle rather then straight like todays kites.

On my new Skyshark P400 reframed one I went with APA connectors and .1570"  graphite tubes for the standoffs. The TAPA's are nearly the exact right angle to use on the battens and they point the standoffs almost directly at the spreader. I used .1880" graphite for the battens so the TAPA's fit the battens perfectly but you might have to drill them out a bit to fit over the stock E40 battens. If you want to go with APA's you'll need 2 x TAPA-X for the battens and 2 x APA 312 on the spreaders (http://www.sysmatrix.net/~mikenchico/Spar_Connectors_Nocks.htm) for use on the stock framing. I'll have to measure the standoff length, Kite Day tomorrow so I'll be into the kite bag later today.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on April 09, 2013, 04:13 PM
Where's the cheapest place to buy carbon fiber tubes?


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 09, 2013, 04:29 PM
In that insane stack, I really want that white/green/light blue colored one!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Wayner on April 09, 2013, 06:30 PM
In that insane stack, I really want that white/green/light blue colored one!

Me too.  ;)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on April 10, 2013, 12:03 AM
Where's the cheapest place to buy carbon fiber tubes?


Check out the Forum supporters who advertise on the right, I don't think you'll find a huge difference in prices. Shipping may differ so be sure to check those prices.

Jon T at Skyburner/Skyshark on the right is one of the shops that makes sure us kite flyers have a supply of good framing materials available, he's always a great place to start. You'll find his shop at www.kitesandfunthings.com (http://www.kitesandfunthings.com)



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 10, 2013, 06:54 AM
Adding stand offs is essential, TOTL released a retrofit kit for them.



I wouldnt say they are essential. I have them on one of mine. But my oldest is all original without stand offs and it still flys great. They do help in lower wind, but lets be honest, the Hawaiian isnt near as fun to fly in low wind. :)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: mikenchico on April 10, 2013, 07:02 AM
The largest benefit is the relaunch capability they add, that's where the original TOTL's flimsy stand offs fell short, a stiffer stand off will hold the kite from falling flat which then requires staking the handles and making the walk. The benefit they were developed for is the edge handling though. Without them the kite sail flattens as you approach the edge of the window, looses lift and falls out of the sky, with them you'll widen that restricted wind window to more than 180* with control, although the edge turns may require turning under, it is still a heavy kite. A 4 person team needed the widest window possible, the "Whiskers" gave it to them.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on April 17, 2013, 08:16 AM
Anyone have the printed instructions, if there where any, that they could post up here? I don't know how to set or adjust the bridles.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 17, 2013, 08:23 AM
Anyone have the printed instructions, if there where any, that they could post up here? I don't know how to set or adjust the bridles.

I think I have an original owners manual at home. I will look tonight. I will post pics if I have it.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: thief on April 17, 2013, 08:34 AM
Hey Coop:
Can you shoot me a copy of that?   I thought i had the Hawaiian instructions, but apparently not....

Butaford: adjusting the bridle will be just like adjusting most sport kite bridles.....you can get an idea of it from googling that....


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: butaford on April 17, 2013, 11:56 AM
I will try that. Wondering about the adjustment for the top part of the bridle. I haven't seen any other kites with that, of course all I have is old TOTL kites.
Thanks for all the help guys!!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 17, 2013, 01:25 PM
Hey Coop:
Can you shoot me a copy of that?   I thought i had the Hawaiian instructions, but apparently not....

Butaford: adjusting the bridle will be just like adjusting most sport kite bridles.....you can get an idea of it from googling that....

Yup. If I have it I will post pics tonight.  :)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 19, 2013, 08:45 PM
I found the owners manual.
I can't get a good readable pic.
I will scan it in on Monday and post it.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: coop on April 22, 2013, 10:26 AM
I have the owners manual scanned as TIFF file. If anyone wants a copy just shot me an email and I will send it to you.  :)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: thief on April 23, 2013, 06:23 PM
I just popped a pdf of it up into my archives as well https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bz8LtJ0px1M9OTcwNTlkNjQtNDYyYy00OGU5LTljMGYtMDdjZDQxYmE0ZjRh&usp=sharing


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Kodama on November 04, 2015, 07:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44EqiEpJZTQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44EqiEpJZTQ)

Found this video on YouTube.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Wayner on November 05, 2015, 02:10 AM
Stunning video.
I see it but don't believe it.  Wow 

Seems to fly faster than my HawaiIan  no way I could hold on to 25.

Could theses be the smaller Maui version?


Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Lex B on November 06, 2015, 10:52 AM
I just popped a pdf of it up into my archives as well https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bz8LtJ0px1M9OTcwNTlkNjQtNDYyYy00OGU5LTljMGYtMDdjZDQxYmE0ZjRh&usp=sharing
Now that's a nice link to visit...



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: thief on November 06, 2015, 11:06 AM
I just popped a pdf of it up into my archives as well https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bz8LtJ0px1M9OTcwNTlkNjQtNDYyYy00OGU5LTljMGYtMDdjZDQxYmE0ZjRh&usp=sharing
Now that's a nice link to visit...

Glad you like it...i love being able to share out the old manuals and such as they are very informative...and also fun to read seeing how kites have changed!

If you have any manuals (english or any language) and would like to share please let me know!  I would love to have them for others to see



Title: Re: TOTL Hawiian team kite setup?
Post by: Lex B on November 13, 2015, 12:02 PM
If you have any manuals (english or any language) and would like to share please let me know!  I would love to have them for others to see
I sent you my Impulse userguide through mail. 'll be a nice completion for the sheet you already had.

Sorry for the offtopic ))