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Kite Land Talk => Geek Speak => Topic started by: ezme6 on March 26, 2013, 04:10 PM



Title: Windows 8
Post by: ezme6 on March 26, 2013, 04:10 PM
 :-[
I am computer stupid, cant upload fotos from my camera, cant edit them, but I guess if I cant upload I don't need to edit  :'(


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: thief on March 27, 2013, 05:13 AM
despise windows8 but was forced to get it.....urgh.....


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: RobB on March 27, 2013, 06:19 AM
If you order your computer online, you can specify that it be loaded with Windows7. We order PCs from HP, and they call it 'Windows7 downgrade' or 'WinXP downgrade'. PC manufacturers realize that a lot of business applications aren't Win8 compatible, and keep the older operating systems available. Those PCs also come with a Win8 'upgrade' disk, so you can load 8 in the future.
Windows 8 sucks if you don't have a touch screen or touch mouse, it seems to ge more geared towards the tablet/phone environment. I've had to setup PCs that my customers went out and bought themselves, Win8 just gets in the way if you only have an old-fashioned mouse & keyboard.
If you have Win8, and can't stand the interface, you can try using a 'classic shell', which makes it work more like old Windows...

http://www.classicshell.net/ (http://www.classicshell.net/)



Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: red sweater on March 27, 2013, 06:35 AM
Yeah, I watch those commercials and cannot fathom why anyone would want that on a desktop computer.


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: tcope on March 27, 2013, 07:47 AM
What makes Windows 8 even more of a failure is lack of native apps. How long has Win8 been out.... and they _still_ don't have a good library of apps for it. I pretty much stay stay in the Desktop (i.e. Win7) 99.9% of the time.

The thing that is really insulting is many of the "free" apps in the Win8 store are just links to the developers site where you can pay for the Win7 software.

MS = home of the consumer beta test.


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: thief on March 27, 2013, 08:55 AM
yeah..that is the problem for me...i have two android tablets that i use constantly...and the GUI for windows 8 is definitely a tablet/touchscreen design and so trying to use it on a laptop is frustrating as all get out......plus all of the weirdly forced windows things too....(how those apps work etc).....
urgh...we had to get a new laptop in a very short time frame (hours) so the ability of working to get a win 7 was not possible.......


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: RobB on March 27, 2013, 08:58 AM
Load the classic shell... it will put you back in a familiar place.


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: tpatter on March 27, 2013, 09:26 AM
Hopefully, they can somehow fix this.  Its like the computer has 2 incompatible personalities. 

I like how there new one looks, but prefer how the old one works.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 10:35 AM
Load the classic shell... it will put you back in a familiar place.
Oh man, this is a volatile subject for me, as I am slowly being shoved toward Win8 because of my aging computer.

I loved XP. I had all the programs I needed/wanted and they ran great until a hardrive crash & I hurried to get a new machine with Vista. Hadn't had time to reseach it first. Imagine my shock to find out that 85% of my programs couldn't be installed anymore. Gads, it was a devastating experience and I don't think I've gotten over it yet. Quark is the only program that made a transition without a whimper. I lost all of my Adobe programs- had to spring for Photoshop which was a huge expense for me. Lost Excel and Access, not to mention Word, which drives me nuts but you have to have from time to time.

Okay, so now I am faced with this happening all over again. I don't trust this transition, can't afford the expense in time, let alone money.

Classic interface? That's what they said about the transition to Vista, except they kept it an egg hunt to figure out how to make it happen. I have to have the Classic. All my muscle memory is tied to it and am not too willing to put the time and effort into something they're just going to change again in a couple of years.

Bitter much? You betcha.

/rant


Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 10:41 AM
If you order your computer online, you can specify that it be loaded with Windows7. We order PCs from HP, and they call it 'Windows7 downgrade' or 'WinXP downgrade'.

I will check this out for sure. Thanks!


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: indigo_wolf on March 27, 2013, 11:46 AM
  • Windows XP still had some warts on it....
  • Windows Vista was a little bit of make-up on an ugly duckling.
  • Windows 7 cleaned up a lot of stuff and still suffered from the "let's move features to new places where users will never think to find them" syndrome of each new iteration of windows.  However they still got a lot of things right and the system, while not perfect,  went a long way to making Windows "self-tuning/self-optimizing."
  • Windows 8 is an absolute blight on mankind.  They mashed two paradigms (desktop/tablet) together and both aspects suffered for it.  Waaaaay too much of the OS is geared to hard-selling you missing features.   It's the equivalent of a car made with a gearbox made by cavemen or if it were a movie, it would have been Highlander II: The Quickening.

A desktop is not a tablet.

This is the same stupidity prevalent among car makers... a car is not a tablet.

LaFontaine Cadillac - 2013 Cadillac XTS | "Buttons" Commercial - Highland, MI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDh7ZUrorMc#ws)

Cars had distinct buttons so that you could operate them without taking your eye off the road.... idjits!!!   >:(

Car makers should be held liable for every accident that's caused by some driver with his/her eyes glued to the soft controls of their car's media/climate/etc. controls.

Windows 8 adoption among corporate customers is abyssmal.... Microsoft should take a hint.

Tom: What camera do you have?  Have you connected to the PC with a cable?  It should install the software for the camera and the storage on the camera should appear as another drive that you can copy the image files from.

You can download one of the freeware image programs (believe Xnview (http://www.xnview.com/en/index.php) still works under Windows 8 under the desktop shell, not the Metro interface).   As far as uploading, where are you uploading too and how were you trying to upload?

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: chilese on March 27, 2013, 12:14 PM
Oh look, an Apple store.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 12:30 PM
    Quote
    • Windows XP still had some warts on it....
    Well yeah... but they were familiar warts and in the grand scheme of things, it just plain worked.

    Quote
    • Windows Vista was a little bit of make-up on an ugly duckling.
    Vista sucks. Permissions scheme alone were enough to hate it.

    Quote
    • Windows 7 cleaned up a lot of stuff and still suffered from the "let's move features to new places where users will never think to find them" syndrome of each new iteration of windows.  However they still got a lot of things right and the system, while not perfect,  went a long way to making Windows "self-tuning/self-optimizing."
    I had one computer with Win7 and hated it also. Still couldn't install programs and it was chock full of glitchies.

    Quote
    • Windows 8 is an absolute blight on mankind.  They mashed two paradigms (desktop/tablet) together and both aspects suffered for it.  Waaaaay too much of the OS is geared to hard-selling you missing features.   It's the equivalent of a car made with a gearbox made by cavemen or if it were a movie, it would have been Highlander II: The Quickening.
    [/list] [/quote]
    Oy.

    Quote
    Cars had distinct buttons so that you could operate them without taking your eye off the road.... idjits!!!   >:(

    Car makers should be held liable for every accident that's caused by some driver with his/her eyes glued to the soft controls of their car's media/climate/etc. controls.
    I will never forget the time I made a left turn onto an intersection, to find a police car stopped in the middle of it. I stopped behind him, thinking something was up- thought he was going to get out to direct traffic or something. I waited and waited.... didn't dare go around him, right? Long time later I began to wonder if he was hurt. Got out and approached the car..... turned out he was really into his onboard keyboard computer-thing and got a tad sidetracked. ;D


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 12:40 PM
    Oh look, an Apple store.
    No lie. For the first time ever, I am actually considering it.


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 12:43 PM


    [url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url] ([url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url])


    Thanks for this Rob, looks promising. I couldn't get any hits for "XP downgrade" on the HP site. Will calling them do the trick?


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: tpatter on March 27, 2013, 12:47 PM
    Oh look, an Apple store.

    I switched some years ago - Windows is nearly unbearable to me now, but my company has some software that we've written for it, so I occasionally have to use it. 

    Heck, if not for having to do software dev, I don't need anything other than my iPad at this point.  It does everything I need including word processing.


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 12:58 PM
    Oh look, an Apple store.

    I switched some years ago - Windows is nearly unbearable to me now, but my company has some software that we've written for it, so I occasionally have to use it. 

    Heck, if not for having to do software dev, I don't need anything other than my iPad at this point.  It does everything I need including word processing.

    My son designs network systems and even he has switched to Mac for personal use.  Crazy.

    skb..... I liked your cartoon. Shoulda kept it in here. Have to agree, expensive for sure. And way too proprietary.


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: Smeagol on March 27, 2013, 01:03 PM
    Windows 95 man, keep it old school.. ;)  or I think I still have Windows 3.11 & MS-DOS 5.0 on floppy discs if you want to get really ancient.  :D  Ah, those were the days.

    -Mike


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 01:04 PM
    Windows 95 man, keep it old school.. ;)  or I think I still have Windows 3.11 & MS-DOS 5.0 on floppy discs if you want to get really ancient.  :D  Ah, those were the days.

    -Mike

    heh....


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: indigo_wolf on March 27, 2013, 01:36 PM


    [url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url] ([url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url])


    Thanks for this Rob, looks promising. I couldn't get any hits for "XP downgrade" on the HP site. Will calling them do the trick?


    Didn't mention if you were on a desktop or laptop.

    Not on the HP site proper, but in there support forums:

    General XP Downgrade Guide for HP Laptops (http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-Systems-e-g-Windows-8-and-Software/General-XP-Downgrade-Guide-for-HP-Laptops/td-p/83267) 

    I expect there is a thread for desktops too.  Over 750K views on the laptop thread.

    Elsewhere...
    Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9179109/Microsoft_extends_Windows_XP_downgrade_rights_until_2020)   ???  That should say something right there.

    Windows XP Downgrade rights: a clarification (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/licensing_and_business_value_readiness_training_resources_-_canada/archive/2011/01/24/windows-xp-downgrade-rights-a-clarification.aspx)

    ATB,
    Sam


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 27, 2013, 01:58 PM


    [url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url] ([url]http://www.classicshell.net/[/url])


    Thanks for this Rob, looks promising. I couldn't get any hits for "XP downgrade" on the HP site. Will calling them do the trick?


    Didn't mention if you were on a desktop or laptop.

    Not on the HP site proper, but in there support forums:

    General XP Downgrade Guide for HP Laptops ([url]http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-Systems-e-g-Windows-8-and-Software/General-XP-Downgrade-Guide-for-HP-Laptops/td-p/83267[/url]) 

    I expect there is a thread for desktops too.  Over 750K views on the laptop thread.

    Elsewhere...
    Microsoft extends Windows XP downgrade rights until 2020 ([url]http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9179109/Microsoft_extends_Windows_XP_downgrade_rights_until_2020[/url])   ???  That should say something right there.

    Windows XP Downgrade rights: a clarification ([url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/licensing_and_business_value_readiness_training_resources_-_canada/archive/2011/01/24/windows-xp-downgrade-rights-a-clarification.aspx[/url])

    ATB,
    Sam

    Doesn't matter. Right now I would take either a laptop or a desktop when I go to buy something new. Would rather just get one of those dealies Rob was talking about though.

    Thanks Sam!


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: RobB on March 27, 2013, 02:32 PM
    We order PCs from the HP 'business' website. I think you'll find what you're looking for in the customizations screens. The XP downgrade may be custom order, now, but we are still able to get them for certain applications. I've gotten laptops with XP on them as recently as 2 months ago.
    My customers are mostly car dealerships, and the technicians that work on your cars use laptops to diagnose the car, and most of their software won't run on Vista, Win7 (32bit or 64), or Win8. So... I've gotten Panasonic Toughbooks & HP laptops with XP on them. You may have to talk to the sales reps vs. finding it online, though. I know you can still order Win7 online with the Win8 'upgrade' disk. As far as 'bang-for-your-buck' durability, you can't beat HP.

    Quote
    Oh look, an Apple store.
    :D
    Too bad Apples aren't business compatible...   :(


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: Allen Carter on March 27, 2013, 03:33 PM
    I've finally got the perfect system for what I do for a living. It's a quad processor laptop with 16GB RAM and very fast solid state storage. At any given time it's running 3 or 4 of the following OS at once:

    Windows XP
    Windows 7
    Windows Server 2008
    Windows Server 2012
    Windows 8

    Ubuntu Linux
    RedHat Linux
    Suse Linux

    And of course, Mac OS X

    It's really, really nice to be platform agnostic. I'm spoiled.

    But back to the original post,

    Windows 8's learning curve is generally manageable for a seasoned Windows 7 user who can put a good 20 hours into getting up to speed, but for the millions who still have XP, it's like hitting a brick wall. I feel your pain.


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: Allen Carter on March 27, 2013, 03:42 PM
    Oh yes, my point...

    In the not too distant future, OS upgrade & downgrade hassles will be much more manageable for the average Joe due to virtualization.


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: kiteking on March 27, 2013, 05:49 PM
    Windows 95 man, keep it old school.. ;)  or I think I still have Windows 3.11 & MS-DOS 5.0 on floppy discs if you want to get really ancient.  :D  Ah, those were the days.

    -Mike

    ""I Don't Need No Stinking Icons,"" I used DOS to configure windows , long before there was a cmd/window

    They forced me to get a Mouse, then a computer that I have to carry with me every time I travel, Whats next,

    a thin piece of glass that I use with my fingers????

    Hell, I got one of those phones that is supposed work with fingers, I cant answer it in time, cant find numbers, enters the wrong digits... sometime I think it would be faster to locate a payphone.

    I did purchase a new HP just before the new year... it has Win8... I have it connected to the big tv, my wife and I watch HD movies that I downloaded from my Vista laptop

    I like Apples too, they are great machines!!!! 


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 28, 2013, 09:28 AM

    In the not too distant future, OS upgrade & downgrade hassles will be much more manageable for the average Joe due to virtualization.
    That's the thing.  I already gave the 20+ hours and my programs. I don't want to do it again. I already spent years and years keeping up with the latest/greatest. I don't have that kind of time anymore, nor the dollars. More than that, I hate being forced. Yeah.... I am whining. Whatev. :-\


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: white wing lover on March 29, 2013, 09:10 PM
    Oh look, an Apple store.
    No lie. For the first time ever, I am actually considering it.

    And, and, you can always load windows on it ... :D :D :D


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: mikenchico on March 29, 2013, 09:21 PM
    It seems odd to me that Microsoft appears to have given up on business computers when that has historically been their bread & butter with Windows and Office. But the introduction of the "Ribbon" interface in Office has been shown to have decreased productivity by 32%. So they spread it throughout Windows now? And Rhonda looked at our Windows 8 and no way her business can ever use it, luckily I bought both PC's this year with Win7 and did the $15 upgrade to Win8 but dual booted them. Have you tried to find the corners you have to hover over to pop out the menu's you need to do anything in Win8 with a multi-monitor setup? Your cursor just goes to the other monitor, it takes a steady hand to get a menu. Plus her job requires multiple monitors with 8 or more windows and applications open at all times. So there you are on the phone trying to resolve an irate and impatient customers problem when your boss sends you an IM or email and since mail & messaging are Win8 applications they'll open full screen and kick you back to the Win8 start screen losing all those pages you've opened. Well your toast while you spend the time getting back to the desktop and getting all the right windows back up on your screens while the customer cusses & threatens you - customer service is not a thankful job to start with, she's dreading that the company probably has to upgrade their computers soon, maybe they'll go with Linux  

    Graphics wise Windows 8 is far better then Windows 7 on my systems, I don't know if that is something inherent to Win8 or the drivers for my graphics card are better in 8 then 7. But on the entertainment PC we have a 24" monitor for working on and a 28" LED TV as the secondary to use for entertsinment so I'm struggling with Win8 because of the clearer graphics, although it pisses me off on many occasions.



    Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 29, 2013, 10:54 PM
    Oh look, an Apple store.
    No lie. For the first time ever, I am actually considering it.

    And, and, you can always load windows on it ... :D :D :D

    lol!


    Title: Re: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 29, 2013, 10:57 PM
    Windows 95 man, keep it old school.. ;)  or I think I still have Windows 3.11 & MS-DOS 5.0 on floppy discs if you want to get really ancient.  :D  Ah, those were the days.

    -Mike
    Remember the old DOS-based WordPerfect? Well, I was a WP Goddess. Oh man, I still miss that program.


    Title: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 29, 2013, 11:16 PM
    You know Mike, Linux was a thought that went thru my head, too. I can remember the early adopters going on and on about it. It always intrigued me but never enough to make the leap. I spent a lot of years working off of virtual servers running Linux, installing/editing scripts and stuff, so I'm not really afraid of it.

     Big community to help you out, tons of open source programs. Might be worth the effort just to thumb my nose at MS. On the other hand, I am a diehard pointer-clicker person. I *do* love my mouse.


    Title: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: mikenchico on March 30, 2013, 02:23 AM
    No effort needed really, there are Linux Distro's that you can run directly off a DVD or USB stick, just set your boot options to boot first from the CD/DVD/USB. They come with MS Office compatible programs, GIMP photo editing, Firefox etc. Pretty much a complete OS and Suite that won't affect your current Windows install at all. You just download the ISO and burn it, then boot up off it. You might find it does just what you want. Need something in Windows, just pull the DVD/Memory stick and you'll boot to Windows again.

    Regardless a Linux DVD is nice security, you can use it to rescue your files off a totally trashed Windows install if your only option ends up a format and you haven't kept up on your back ups.





    Title: Re: Re: Windows 8
    Post by: madhabitz on March 30, 2013, 11:35 AM
    Hey, thanks Mike!