GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: Ara Ararauna on April 11, 2013, 02:55 PM



Title: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 11, 2013, 02:55 PM
Hi,

I know I'll regret this  ;) but I think I must ask for your advise...  ::)

I think it is time for me to get an SUL.

Acknowledging I have no idea on what to get, I fell in love with the Aura when I saw the trial video:
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=9026.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=9026.0)
However, there is not even an approximate date of when it will be available and my birthday is in a month. (although if <highly> recommended I could actually wait...)

I was also thinking on getting a Talon SUL since I already have a UL. But, I don't really know why, I think I would like to have a different make...

I have been looking here and there and SUL's are really much more expensive that ULs so I have to be careful with budget!  :'(

Yesterday I saw the post on the open sourcing of the Essence SUL:
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7653.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7653.0)
It looks also really nice and opinions are that it is very capable...
... and I kind of got into the mood of building it.
Unfortunately I have not enough time at the moment and I would have to wait until summer holidays in August  :( way too far into the future... (although if also <highly> recommended I could indeed wait...)

To add to my total disorientation, today I have learnt that many supposedly SUL models actually weigh the same as my Talon UL, so I don't understand how they can be SULs...

I think that having already the Talon UL I want to get a "REAL" SUL; in other words, one that is <really> for (almost) no wind.

I know SUL's need a different flying technique and very smooth flying. But this is something I like. I think I can be good at it. I like the elegance of the movements in the videos I've seen.

So any help, comments, suggestions, etc., will be enormously appreciated.

Cheers!


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Gardner on April 11, 2013, 03:27 PM
I got a Widow Maker UL.  Beautiful kite which I think you would like.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: KaoS on April 11, 2013, 05:18 PM
It really depends on what you want your kite to do. 

Many UL and SUL versions of recognised kites perform very well in lower winds but most of them give something away.  In a LOT of cases, it is harder to roll up or yo-yo a UL, and MUCH harder to roll up a SUL.  There are some exceptions to this rule.  I don't have first hand experience, but I understand the Talon SUL DOES roll up.

If you want a kite that will fly in lower wind than any other, a Skyburner ProDancer SUL is pretty much the benchmark... BUT it doesn't trick (at least not easily, and not like modern trick kites).  It has great precision, wonderful graceful turns, and pulls hard on the lines in next to no wind.  Coming very close to the PD is the smaller, more nimble HQ Shadow.  It has a very low bottom end, and it does a lot of tricks very well.  It is a very popular kite amongst GWTW contributers.  About the only thing it doesn't do easily is roll up.

Another thing to be aware of... one manufacturer's SUL doesn't necessarily fly in as low wind as another.  At least one kite I know of has a full range of Vented, Standard, Light, Ultra Light and SUL.  The SUL performs very well in much lighter wind than the UL, the UL in much lighter wind than the Light, and so on.  However, there are a number of SULs which will easily fly in lighter winds than one from this particular manufacturer.

So you need to be clear in your own mind what your major priority/objective is for the kite.  Feel free to ask a heap more questions  :)



Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: trigger on April 11, 2013, 05:30 PM
I called on the OCIUS SUL today.. there are a couple good videos of it also.. same pilot as the AURA :)   great flying DEVON!  and it's made by skyburner.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ca Ike on April 11, 2013, 05:40 PM
It really depends on what you want your kite to do. 

Many UL and SUL versions of recognised kites perform very well in lower winds but most of them give something away.  In a LOT of cases, it is harder to roll up or yo-yo a UL, and MUCH harder to roll up a SUL.  There are some exceptions to this rule.  I don't have first hand experience, but I understand the Talon SUL DOES roll up.

If you want a kite that will fly in lower wind than any other, a Skyburner ProDancer SUL is pretty much the benchmark... BUT it doesn't trick (at least not easily, and not like modern trick kites).  It has great precision, wonderful graceful turns, and pulls hard on the lines in next to no wind.  Coming very close to the PD is the smaller, more nimble HQ Shadow.  It has a very low bottom end, and it does a lot of tricks very well.  It is a very popular kite amongst GWTW contributers.  About the only thing it doesn't do easily is roll up.

Another thing to be aware of... one manufacturer's SUL doesn't necessarily fly in as low wind as another.  At least one kite I know of has a full range of Vented, Standard, Light, Ultra Light and SUL.  The SUL performs very well in much lighter wind than the UL, the UL in much lighter wind than the Light, and so on.  However, there are a number of SULs which will easily fly in lighter winds than one from this particular manufacturer.

So you need to be clear in your own mind what your major priority/objective is for the kite.  Feel free to ask a heap more questions  :)


Really good advice here.  Decide if its flippy stuff you want or just the ability to fly in a gnats fart and then we can start talking kites :P   Most all suls will do rotational tricks and some will get into the JL territory but few true suls will do the flippy stuff.  The SULs you see doing the flippy stuff I don't consider true suls when your talking needing at least 2 mph to fly them as thats more UL range.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Wayner on April 11, 2013, 05:48 PM
So you need to be clear in your own mind what your major priority/objective is for the kite.  Feel free to ask a heap more questions  :)


Great point.

Some SUL are light enought to fly indoors while others are heavier but allow for more trickability.

Do you want to fly in little to no wind but very limited tricks (rotational stuff), or do you want to fly in winds lighter that your Talon UL and still be able to do tricks.  :o

Put another way. Do you want a kite that will letyou fly so you have something to do if the wind dies? or do you want to do some tricks when the wind is too light for your Talon UL?

Your Talon UL is not a true low wind UL. UL Kites like the WM, Shadow, Mojo, Freestylist to name a few fly in lower wind. However the Talon UL is the able to do all tricks including rollup. Well wortht the extra wind it needs, most of the other low wind ULs trade trick preformance for low winds capability.

Learning to fly in almost no wind is a skill that must be learned before your even start tricks. SO I would lean toward a heavier but more trickable SUL or the Shadow. You will find it easier to fly and it will fly in winds lower than your Talon.

Heard for two sources that the Aura is planned on a "light" 4oz indoor version and a "heavier" 5oz more trickable outdoor version. The heavier version is the one I have been luckly enought to fly.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Gamelord on April 11, 2013, 06:13 PM
The Ocius SUL is one kite that is a true SUL and will still trick.  As mentioned above, it doesn't trick nearly as easy as the standard but it is still capable.

AFIK, the Talon SUL is going to be exceptionally difficult to find as JoE has basically stopped production and (last I heard) was closing up shop.  Unless you can find one in stock somewhere or on the used market, the Talon SUL may be a rare artifact to get.



Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: RobB on April 11, 2013, 07:30 PM
As mentioned above, there are two types of SUL, the one that can really FLY in no wind (but few tricks) and the one that can fly in 0.5-2mph with work, or do tricks in 2+mph. The first type, what some may call 'true SULs' can only do a few tricks no matter what the wind speed. I fly both types, as light wind flying is my favorite kind of flying,  I get excited when I see the flags barely waving when I get to the beach.
My goto true SULs are mostly out of production (Prism Ozone, PBSK Vanishing Point & BadBoy UL, ProDancer), but my favorite trick SULs are the Fearless & Sea Devil, both still available. They can do any trick out there, in 1-2mph of wind. I have many other trick capable SULs, but they don't compare.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Charles P on April 11, 2013, 09:04 PM

To add to my total disorientation, today I have learnt that many supposedly SUL models actually weigh the same as my Talon UL, so I don't understand how they can be SULs...



Ara, I was confused about this as well and I can not say I know all of why some heavier kites are classified as SUL's but I can speak for the I Seven SUL (outstanding kite) which I decided on because I was leaning more towards trick performance than actual super low wind range flying.
 The Seven SUL weighs just over 8 ounces and it gets away with being an SUL due to its sail being primarily made of mylar which does not allow any wind to bleed through the sail. It will fly in almost no wind, say 0.5mph but it takes a lot of work and a lot of backing up. Once the winds get up to around 2mph it will perform great.
 The other kite I was considering when I opted for the Seven was the Ocius SUL, it weighs 4 ounces and will fly well in 0.5mph.
 It does pretty much anything you ask of it but getting it to roll up is problematic and some other pitch related tricks can be difficult as well.
  If your really looking for a very low wind kite I would suggest an Ocius.

     Good luck in your search.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: tpatter on April 11, 2013, 10:16 PM
If you want it to flip and flop in addition to fly, then it needs a bit of mass in order to do it in a proper/reasonable manner.

I can't tell you how many SULs that I love right up until I try to do the tricks that I like to do with them.  One pop yoyo usually often not there, decent comete mostly missing, also a good feeling jacobs ladder can be tough for many designs and often impossible to any reasonable degree.

Many true SULs can axel, 540, and fade all day.  Of course, you often have to learn how to fly just that one kite cause it can need inputs that are all its own.  To each his own, but I don't like having to go too far out of my way in order to make a particular kite work for me.

So, for me, I either accept that the kite that I want to fly will be a little more work in extremely low winds, or I forget about some of the stuff that I love doing and work on 540s, fades, backspins, and maybe the taz on a different sort of SUL.  Or, just have 2 SUL kites - a tricky one and one that's not so tricky.

Lam's SULs, to me, are the best at lowest wind, but all the tricks.  I like the TNT Zero for lowest wind, but not very pitchy, although it does plenty to keep you interested.  Finally, a near-indoor kite for just flying, but not doing much tricking - I used to use my Nik-Nak for that, I think the PD SUL is much better, but I've never flown one.

Good luck.

Tom


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Hadge on April 12, 2013, 02:02 AM

AFIK, the Talon SUL is going to be exceptionally difficult to find as JoE has basically stopped production and (last I heard) was closing up shop. 

Are you sure about this Kent? !!  ???  I've heard nothing this side of the pond and there is nothing on the website. 


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: WolvenX on April 12, 2013, 03:25 AM
My favourite SUL is the Prism Ozone.  But you can't go wrong with the Nik-Nak for outside and the I-Nak for indoors.  I'm also partial to the Prism 4D. 

If you have lots of cash the Veyron is also on my list I just can't afford it yet :)


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Krijn on April 12, 2013, 04:38 AM
Veyron SUL!


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: indigo_wolf on April 12, 2013, 07:00 AM
AFIK, the Talon SUL is going to be exceptionally difficult to find as JoE has basically stopped production and (last I heard) was closing up shop. 

 ??? :(  :(  :'(

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Jest_of_Eve on April 12, 2013, 07:32 AM
AFIK, the Talon SUL is going to be exceptionally difficult to find as JoE has basically stopped production and (last I heard) was closing up shop. 

 ??? :(  :(  :'(

ATB,
Sam

It's not all bad news.

I no longer make kites full-time, that doesn't mean I can't make them ever again. If you want one just let me know but the downside is that you'll have to wait a lot longer for it. I only have two days per week to work on them (if I can) and I may need to wait for a few confirmed orders before buying materials.

At the moment I'm buffering some cash ready to start making a few for people who've contacted me, not sure when this will be but they will be made.

Later I might just make a nice looking Talon once in a while and put it up for sale or auction, not sure which way to go.

Not quite buried yet  :D


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 12, 2013, 07:35 AM
Wow!
Thanks so much for all your kind and rich feedback! (I was actually expecting no less from you all, thanks really).  :)

OK, I agree I have to clarify what I really want to do.

However, I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.

Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass

But I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  ???
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!

So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  :'(
 ;)

Thanks all for all the other recommendations.

Some sound good:

Veyron SUL: thanks Krijn, it is nice but the price is not!  :(  320 !!!
The old school kites: great but I really want a new school kite. If I ever buy myself an old school SUL I will get me a Vapor (so I better start saving money  ;)  )
Seven: not really SUL so does not accomplish what I want...
Essence: nice building opportunity but no time and not really SUL
Widowmaker: I'm sorry to disagree with so much people, but I have never liked the sail layout (I know it is childish to place the design before the flying, but I will be seeing it many hours)
Lam's kites: again, I just don't like their design. Plus the SULs are around 7 or 8 Oz so not "true" SULs.
Ocius: sounds good but it looks also a bit old school... however it could be a possibility... but it does not seem to be as capable as the Aura
HQ Shadow: not really an SUL and would not be a good idea having the Talon UL
Talon SUL: great to hear the Talons will still be available, despite the new conditions. It would be a huge loss if the Talons go out of production. The SUL would be agood option but, as I said in my first post, I would like to try different beasts (if only budget was not an issue...)

So I hope this review can help other people too.
In my case it has helped me a lot.
I think that I have now a very clear idea that the Aura is the one to go for... if it actually starts to be commercialized...  :(

Thanks all!  :D






Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: coop on April 12, 2013, 08:04 AM
Wow, first Blue moon, now Joe.
We need to find a way to re-energize the kite world before we lose all the boutique kite makers!


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: chilese on April 12, 2013, 08:06 AM
Not only are your (JoE) kites excellent tricksters, but your

eye for design layout and attention to detail are exceptional.

The vented Talon gets my vote for best looking vented sport kite.  :)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HbaKc3cY6Cg/S-5LfqFNHNI/AAAAAAAAaYc/Xf-YK3Bm05M/s800/8627%2520Talon%2520Vented.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2010Kites#5471393604545879250)


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: DD on April 12, 2013, 08:17 AM
Wow, first Blue moon, now Joe.
We need to find a way to re-energize the kite world before we lose all the boutique kite makers!

Yeh Aerostar before that :'(
I think Joe is going the same way Paul did before closing up completely


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Hadge on April 12, 2013, 09:01 AM

HQ Shadow: not really an SUL and would not be a good idea having the Talon UL



2 things :-

Thing 1 - The Shadow is very very close to a SUL - it will fly down to a touch below 1.5 mph on short lines with a bit of movement. Looking at the Aura video, it will do most of that with 2mph of wind or maybe a little less. It also costs a lot less - The Veyron may well be better, but the Shadow costs around 125 if you shop around and thats good value for money. It's also pretty tough which leads to....

...Thing 2 - Remember that real SUL/indoor/NO wind kites can also be pretty fragile....Skyshark Zero..2 PT thats VERY light. If you catch a gust with something like that it could be expensive - the Shadow can be flown in 12mph ( though I wouldn't recommend it!) so if you get a gust it's not so bad.



Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Allen Carter on April 12, 2013, 09:33 AM
Keep in mind that overall weight is not necessarily and indication of wind range. All the kites discussed above vary in wingspan and sail shape. An 8' 8oz kite might have a lower range than a 7' 6oz kite.

Flying in very low or no wind is a very, very different skill set (and mind set) than flying in real wind. Keep in mind that many kites which are enjoyable at 2MPH for an experienced flyer are very hard to keep in the air at all for someone new to light wind flying. Light wind is, more often than not, variable wind. One of the biggest frustrations is when you get the kite going and the wind dies. Over and over again.  :'(

Having a kite that will stay in the air during lulls is great for learning. I suggest something very light and inexpensive like the 4D to get the hang of keeping the kite in the air. This might be a short lived kite in your bag, but you'll enjoy the expensive SUL that comes after it a lot more.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 12, 2013, 01:31 PM
Thanks Steve and Allen.

Steve, OK I understand about the Shadow, although I still don't have even an idea of the price of the Aura. Hence I cannot compare there.

Steve and Allen, I understand the difficulty of flying in almost no air. I have tried that with my Talon UL many times out of the need to fly when there's no wind. I have learnt to keep the kite in the air by rowing gently and going smoothly through curves, etc. So I think I am on my way to knowing how to deal with an SUL. Although I acknowledge that I still have a loooong way ahead. But this also means that I will be using the SUL really only when there is really low wind, otherwise I'll be using the Talon UL. This means the probability of having a strong gust is low. So I'm aware of the fragility of SULs and I'll minimise risks.

I know it is a whole different league and I know I'll need an adaptation phase. But I think I also understand the limits and I have other kites that allow me to use the SUL adequately...

Of course it would be great to try all/many/some of the kites you have all mentioned. It would be great to have people show me. But the very few people that fly kites close to me only have STD's and mostly very standard brands/models such as Eolo Over...
So I can't get any help there and I have to imagine what each kite is like.

I will think a bit more about it, re-read all the information in this and other threads, wait to have the price for the Aura (!), and then I'll take a decision.

So thanks again.
Cheers.




Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Hadge on April 12, 2013, 01:41 PM
Hi Ara,

It's all the the tecnique....not an easy thing to learn, but when you have it's amazing how little wind you need....even no wind at all....

 ;)


Indoor Over Eolo Sport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwqrENrAA-4#)


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 12, 2013, 02:08 PM
Hi Ara,

It's all the the tecnique....not an easy thing to learn, but when you have it's amazing how little wind you need....even no wind at all....

 ;)


Great Steve!

This reminds me that the other thing I must get is a pair of short lines because I only have a 20m and a 25m sets and when air is really low I would probably be able to get more out of my Talon UL with a 15m or even 10m set (I still have some unused thread).

Am I right?

What would be a good set of lines for low wind?

Cheers.



Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: RobB on April 12, 2013, 04:05 PM
I fly 65' 100# lines in ~2mph of wind, and 50' 50# lines in less than 1mph of wind... with a full sized kite. With a little kite like the 4D, I use 30' 50# line. I never fly any shorter, but that's just my preference...


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Wayner on April 12, 2013, 06:19 PM

This reminds me that the other thing I must get is a pair of short lines because I only have a 20m and a 25m sets and when air is really low I would probably be able to get more out of my Talon UL with a 15m or even 10m set (I still have some unused thread).

Am I right?

What would be a good set of lines for low wind?

Cheers.

I fly my Talon UL on 20 & 25m 50# line sets.

Flying on something shorter is good for practice. Helps to see tip wraps or how the kite is reacting to your inputs. But, really short lines reduce your wind window, giving you little time to set up for each trick.   




Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Wayner on April 12, 2013, 09:38 PM
Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass
Ara, No one in the kiting community wants to place a limitation on your choices.  ;D  We all want the same thing. This is a fight against the law of physics. ???

Lots of time effort and money have been spent trying to break the laws of physics for us kite flyers.   


I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  ???
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!
I talked to Jon today. Their are TWO SUL versions being built as prototypes and they TRICK DIFFERENTLY
  - a 4oz version uses zero air rods designed for indoor use. 
  - a 5oz version uses 2PT rods.

Jon likes the 2PT 5oz version. The air zero version preforms well indoors but does not have the same trick abililties and maybe to light.

A ul version using 3PT rods is also being tested. Sounds like its small size will let it fly in standard winds.



I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.
Looks like this is the 5oz version. I know this is the version I have been flying and want to buy.  ;)



So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  :'(


Jon has no specfic date for production. Issues like which version(s) to produce, cost, sail colors and patterns, etc still had to be finalized. Doesn't mean you can't order one. Jon has made some different versions of the kite. Maybe these would be classified as prototypes, since the final specs have not been set. You could alway order one built using the rods and weight your want.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: PUZZLE on April 12, 2013, 10:41 PM
i got the ocius sul (just over 4.5oz)for the light days but after  i got the widowmaker ul it doesnt get much air time :) love both kites


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Hadge on April 13, 2013, 02:18 AM
If you are going to fly in no/V. low winds say 0-2 mph then a set of 10m x 50lb (20kg?) lines will help even with something like the Talon UL BUT you will have a very limited window and you will need to keep moveing most of the time. I don't bother with straps on short lines, just hook my fingers through the loops - some folks don't even sleeve short line sets though I prefer to. My short sets  ( 10m +15m) were made from a cut down set of standard 50 lb HQ dyneema lineset I got with a kite years ago.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 13, 2013, 02:37 AM
Many of you have sort of placed the limitation of a duality I would have to chose from, namely:
* either I want to fly in really no wind -> which leads to a really light but untrickable kite
* or I want to be able to do tricks -> which leads to a not 100% SUL because it has to have greater mass
Ara, No one in the kiting community wants to place a limitation on your choices.  ;D  We all want the same thing. This is a fight against the law of physics. ???

Lots of time effort and money have been spent trying to break the laws of physics for us kite flyers.   

Thanks Wayne. I know there was no intention of limiting me.  :)
By "limitation" I only meant that the current popular knowledge poses this binary choice. Not that people were artificially doing so. I just wanted to state that I saw the other possibility.

I see that the Aura does beautifully in tricks of all sorts with incredible elegance and smoothness AND it ONLY weighs 4ounces!!!  ???
So this would be a living proof that the best of both worlds is possible!
I talked to Jon today. Their are TWO SUL versions being built as prototypes and they TRICK DIFFERENTLY
  - a 4oz version uses zero air rods designed for indoor use. 
  - a 5oz version uses 2PT rods.

Jon likes the 2PT 5oz version. The air zero version preforms well indoors but does not have the same trick abililties and maybe to light.

A ul version using 3PT rods is also being tested. Sounds like its small size will let it fly in standard winds.

I think I was quite focussed when I started with the reference to the Aura.

It is exactly what I see in that video what I want to do, trick-wise and wind-wise.
Looks like this is the 5oz version. I know this is the version I have been flying and want to buy.  ;)

Yep, it does sound like the 5oz is the thing I'm looking for.


So the more I think and read about SUL's the more impressed I am with these specs of the Aura and the more interested I am on it.
So... when is it going to be available!  :'(


Jon has no specfic date for production. Issues like which version(s) to produce, cost, sail colors and patterns, etc still had to be finalized. Doesn't mean you can't order one. Jon has made some different versions of the kite. Maybe these would be classified as prototypes, since the final specs have not been set. You could alway order one built using the rods and weight your want.


OK, I will contact him to see what can be done...
Thanks!


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 13, 2013, 02:40 AM
Thanks to all also for the info on line lengths.
I will make a set of 15m and another of 10m and will try the Talon UL in very low wind.
See what difference it makes with respect to the 20 and 25m.
Cheers.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: ae on April 28, 2013, 07:06 PM
Or if you want to go for the ultimate in low wind performance, minus nearly total trickability, but for a very Zen like experience:

IMGP0013 on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/51534217)

2.8oz at 98" wingspan

Wind in the vid is well below 1mph, windmaster was standing still.


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: bt on April 28, 2013, 10:32 PM
Yeah.....super refreshing!!! My kind of flying!!!!
bt


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: ko on April 29, 2013, 07:32 AM
couldn't resist. I just love these vids. They are available (tricktails) once in a lab grade wind though  TrickTail UL doin' some 540's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn5W3_yndfI#) TTUL Slow and Floaty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJS6zzStBUc#)Great video Andre


Title: Re: Getting into a mess... Yes I want an SUL... but which?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on April 29, 2013, 01:50 PM
Thanks for trefs.
Both the IMGP0013 and the TTUL are very nice, but they are not what I had in mind.
I think I've made up my mind for the Aura, but I'm trying to make my budget feasible  ::)
Cheers.