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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: photogbill on June 08, 2013, 11:23 AM



Title: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 08, 2013, 11:23 AM
I really am enjoying my 6th Sense and my Invictus and have been strongly considering making a scaled down version of one of them, probably the 6th Sense!

I have read a prior thread regarding  a 75% scaled down Invictus but I don't really want to scale my build down that much! I was thinking more of a 85-90% version!

I was wondering if any of you all have built them scaled down and whether you liked the scaled down version as well as the originals ...and what if any flight characteristic changes you noticed!

My current 6th Sense is an UL version and my Invictus is a standard!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on June 08, 2013, 11:46 AM
Hi,

Two questions from a total newbie:
1. Why do people scale down kites that already work well at full size?
2. In any case, once you have decided to scale down, why only 90%? Would seem such a small reduction...

I don't want to deviate the thread but I thought it was relevant to learn more about scaling down...
Thanks!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 08, 2013, 12:01 PM
Those are good questions Ari! Not sure I can give you the best answer but I guess the main reason is that even though I love how these two kites fly, I've usually preferred flying a little smaller kites, like the Nirvana Manga which is essentially an NFX Extend ...and has been my #1 favorite kite for a long time! The 6th Sence and Invectus are quickly become my 2nd favorites ...and I still haven't decided which I prefer best! .

They usually fly a little faster & have less pull ...not that either of the above have excessive pull o the flight lines! Smaller kites also usually are lighter in weight and with the right combo of rods can fly in very low winds without losing their ability to do tricks!

Your other point that 90% is not much of a reduction in size is well taken so I might re-evaluate my %'s if I decide to go that route!

I may just end up building another full size kite in another wind range than the two I've already built!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on June 08, 2013, 02:29 PM
Cool, thanks for your explanations.
However, I feel a bit guilty I might have made you change your mind...  :-[
I was not trying to convince you of dropping the scaling down of the kites. I was only trying to understand the why's...

In any case, I'm looking forward to what others tell you and what the final outcome is.
Cheers.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: sugarbaker on June 08, 2013, 07:03 PM
Do a search for "sixth sense 85".  Davide has actually posted specs for the sixth sense printed out at 85%.  Frame and bridle already worked out... There is a video somewhere too.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 08, 2013, 07:37 PM
Do a search for "sixth sense 85".  Davide has actually posted specs for the sixth sense printed out at 85%.  Frame and bridle already worked out... There is a video somewhere too.


Thanks for the help 'sugarbaker'!

It took a few different 'search wordings' but found it! Here it is complete with another great video ,,,this one with the SS 85%:
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7175.msg68862#msg68862 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7175.msg68862#msg68862)

OH yeah ...and ....Decision made after watching the video! I'm gonna do it! ;)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: CTaylor on June 08, 2013, 08:24 PM
Hi,

Two questions from a total newbie:
1. Why do people scale down kites that already work well at full size?
2. In any case, once you have decided to scale down, why only 90%? Would seem such a small reduction...

I don't want to deviate the thread but I thought it was relevant to learn more about scaling down...
Thanks!


Smaller kites mean less pull, less input required, and faster speed through tricks.  Some people prefer this over a more "standard" kite size.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Ara Ararauna on June 08, 2013, 10:59 PM
Hi,

Two questions from a total newbie:
1. Why do people scale down kites that already work well at full size?
2. In any case, once you have decided to scale down, why only 90%? Would seem such a small reduction...

I don't want to deviate the thread but I thought it was relevant to learn more about scaling down...
Thanks!


Smaller kites mean less pull, less input required, and faster speed through tricks.  Some people prefer this over a more "standard" kite size.

Great thanks.

Also happy to see my questions did not affect photogbill's decision.  :)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Krijn on June 09, 2013, 10:11 AM
i've got davide's sixth sense.85 now

nice kite

fast tricking!
good yoyo's, cometes crazy!
fast tazmachines

a bit nervous (of course)


a video is in the planning, but everytime conditions are bad...

Krijn


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 09, 2013, 11:30 AM
Hi,

Two questions from a total newbie:
1. Why do people scale down kites that already work well at full size?
2. In any case, once you have decided to scale down, why only 90%? Would seem such a small reduction...

I don't want to deviate the thread but I thought it was relevant to learn more about scaling down...
Thanks!


Smaller kites mean less pull, less input required, and faster speed through tricks.  Some people prefer this over a more "standard" kite size.

Great thanks.

Also happy to see my questions did not affect photogbill's decision.  :)

No worries! I can be pretty stuborn when I set my mind on something!  ;D


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 09, 2013, 11:31 AM
i've got davide's sixth sense.85 now

nice kite

fast tricking!
good yoyo's, cometes crazy!
fast tazmachines

a bit nervous (of course)


a video is in the planning, but everytime conditions are bad...

Krijn

Thanks for the positive confirmation on the SS 85! Looking forward to seeing that video!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: KiteChemist on June 09, 2013, 04:20 PM
I also made a scaled version of my Howitzer (scaled 88%, called Howitzer .88 or H88) (215x85)

It is a crazy kite, all tricks and combos are possible (even stupid easy yofades and crazy copters) and the yoyos are lightning fast. The most surprising thing is the very large windrange (both low and high). Cannot figure out how smaller kites (with usually highew sail loading) can fly so easily.

I published a video some time ago




Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 15, 2013, 11:13 PM
I though I'd post an update on my new project! I got a little ambitious and decided to built 3 Sixth Sense 85s, all at the same time ...a Std. & UL for myself & a standard for a buddy.

Here's my two:
Standard

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5549/9053743437_fbf5e8cbed_b.jpg)

UL
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3755/9055972054_438e877bf3_b.jpg)
I may decide to 'pin-stripe' the top edge of the red wing-panel.

Here's the one for my friend:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2822/9053743739_0e2acb7b81_b.jpg)

I'll start sewing the panels tomorrow.

*** Just a note to anyone else thinking about making an 85% Sixth Sense. The panel overlap is reduced to where the seams are very tight when using 1/4" seam tape. You might want to draw new, slightly wider seam overlaps before you make your  rip-stop templates. If I like the way these fly and ever decide to make any more, I'll probably make all new templates with expanded seams.***


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: chilese on June 16, 2013, 12:05 AM
Well, they all look good flat on a rug, so you know

they are going to look great finished.

Very nice.  :)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Krijn on June 16, 2013, 02:29 AM
Attention: mine (from Davide himself) has got no leechline, but the Trailing Edge is stitched two times with a threestepzigzag.

Looking good, by the way.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 16, 2013, 10:26 AM
Thanks for the compliments John and Krijn! ...also thanks for the advise on doing a double 3-step zigzag stitch on the trailing edge. That would make things a lot easier in the build. I assume you are sewing one along the edge of the TE strip and another down the middle of the strip. I don't have any spinnaker (not even sure what that is exactly) but I use a 2" strip of 1.5 oz rip-stop, folded in half twice, giving me a 1/2" TE ... for my trailing edges.

Also will there be any significant increase in flight noise using the double zigzag stitch method over putting a leach line in. I still get some noise when flying my prior builds that all have had a leech line in them.

Thanks


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: sugarbaker on June 16, 2013, 02:26 PM
Yes, I agree, the builds look nice. I don't always jive with your color choices, but I like the sails you're building for yourself.  I assume the one for a friend is the colors he/she likes.

In terms of panel size, I wonder if you could print the plan at 85%, but print the panels at 86 or 87%... then line up the panels with the outside of the 85% plan, which would in turn make a larger overlap at each section.  Just a thought.  I've not made an 85% yet; too many projects on my table. 


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on June 16, 2013, 03:54 PM
Yes, I agree, the builds look nice. I don't always jive with your color choices, but I like the sails you're building for yourself.  I assume the one for a friend is the colors he/she likes.

In terms of panel size, I wonder if you could print the plan at 85%, but print the panels at 86 or 87%... then line up the panels with the outside of the 85% plan, which would in turn make a larger overlap at each section.  Just a thought.  I've not made an 85% yet; too many projects on my table. 


Thanks 'sugarbaker'! Yeah ....my friend is the one with the bold color choices. Actually the colors on this kite are exactly the same as the ones on his 'Indian' NFX Extend ...and I made fun of him about those colors too until I went flying with him and saw it in a bright blue sky! I had to admit it looked pretty sharp!

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/9060585365_a971525950_b.jpg)

And appreciate the suggestion but it cost approx $17 to have both (left & right) full size patterns printed ....so printing 2 different size percentage patterns wouldn't be worth it to me. I use the patterns with carbon paper underneath to trace the individual panels to make construction paper templates for my builds. I'm not sure it's the best method or not but the construction paper templates are more durable and can be used over and over to make quite a lot of kites if I chose too in the future. It would be more practical to just either draw new overlap lines on the pattern or just cheat the cut lines a little when I'm cutting my rip-stop so as to make the seam overlap slightly larger to avoid any issues with the seam tape.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 04, 2013, 07:07 PM
Well, they all look good flat on a rug, so you know

they are going to look great finished.

Very nice.  :)


Two are finished except for a bridle, yo-yo stops, a few tweaks on the rods!

First is my UL version with lots of mylar!

I used a combination of Skyshark P100/P1X for LE, a P2X spine, and 3PT lower spreaders! 

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5333/9210656503_fb2fc7023f_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3792/9213439788_ea5d450499_b.jpg)

Here's the one standard I made for a friend.

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/9210659901_3687d6ea70_b.jpg)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2831/9210660305_91642d789e_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/9210660751_3f71d16d2c_b.jpg)

I still have to frame out the other standard I made for myself! Will post a picture of it tomorrow.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Kareloh on July 05, 2013, 02:07 AM
Looking quite sharp! I like 'm!

Don't know if this is allready been discussed, but i wonder why you consistently use the 45 degree angle on the inner panels (spine). As a rule i always align the ripstop pattern with the spine for those panels since icarex only stretches in diagonal direction.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 08:41 AM
Looking quite sharp! I like 'm!

Don't know if this is allready been discussed, but i wonder why you consistently use the 45 degree angle on the inner panels (spine). As a rule i always align the ripstop pattern with the spine for those panels since icarex only stretches in diagonal direction.

First, Thanks for the compliment!

As to the 45 degree diagonal on Icarex center panels, I wasn't aware there was a serious issue with stretching, due to that. I seem to recall observing center panels being that way on other 'professional' kite builds. It's an interesting observation that I don't recall anyone discussing before. I'd be interested in others reflecting on the subject. It was my understanding that it was important to slightly angle adjoining panels to each other so I try to make sure no two panels have their grids aligned to each other. I make sure all panel grids slightly offset to each other, f that makes sense.

In retrospect, since the tension on the sail is created by the standoffs "pulling" on the sail, away from the spine, would not the 45 degree angle be a correct alignment if stretching was a concern ...and since the standoffs are at an approx. 45 degree angle to the spine & the channeling of wind will also be directed in that direction? I'm not stating that I know this to be correct. I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of the sail in relationship to where the forces would interact with kite dynamics and flight.

It is an interesting subject. I'll have to look at some of my previous boutique (bought) kites to see if there is a set pattern for their center panels!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Lou on July 05, 2013, 09:00 AM
Outside of intentionally creating stretch to allow a sail increase "billow" in certain areas I was under the understanding that the strongest direction of the bias should always align with the spine and leading trailing edges.  I noticed a big difference in sail tension when I went from the diagonal spine alignment to the strongest bias direction along the spine.  I am of the newest forum members to kite building but I can't deny the results in this particular case.

Kites still nonetheless look very nice.  The Indian colors are very northeastern to me.  I love it!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 11:07 AM
Outside of intentionally creating stretch to allow a sail increase "billow" in certain areas I was under the understanding that the strongest direction of the bias should always align with the spine and leading trailing edges.  I noticed a big difference in sail tension when I went from the diagonal spine alignment to the strongest bias direction along the spine.  I am of the newest forum members to kite building but I can't deny the results in this particular case.

Kites still nonetheless look very nice.  The Indian colors are very northeastern to me.  I love it!

It may be your "understanding" but I fail to see what tensional forces ...other than the spine rod tensioning itself ...(which I always reinforce with a 1" strip of mylar zig-zag stitched down the center and both edges) ...are exerted in a direct up and down force? Not to mention if you do that, you will be sewing along parallel lines of grid and material layers when you connect both center panels down the middle ...creating a weak bond between the two creating a potential for material separation?

I'd hesitate using your personal empirical experience ...since ..as you have admitted, you have not been building kites all that long! How do you know that your panel layout 'alone' was the reason for you're observed differences in sail tension? I'm not saying that you are wrong, merely that I would be more interested in a better explanation from a more experience ...perhaps a boutique kite make themselve ...or an engineer that can explain the forces that apply to the sail on a constructed delta shaped stunt kite!  ;)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 12:24 PM
Well ... the third kite in the trio is all framed out. I should have waited till the sun went down a little for a better angle or used a little fill flash but here goes:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3773/9218645440_418cb0ff18_b.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3825/9218647066_5358d3f7d8_b.jpg)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9218646034_53188e80da_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 12:32 PM
Outside of intentionally creating stretch to allow a sail increase "billow" in certain areas I was under the understanding that the strongest direction of the bias should always align with the spine and leading trailing edges. .....

After my last post I took my Sano sail out (getting ready to do some much needed repairs) and observed that Paul Shirey ...one of the most meticulous kite builders I've even know ...plus an engineer by trade ... arranged the center panels, leading edges, & trailing edges (except for the one closest to spine) exactly as you suggested!

I guess I'll need to adapt my kite-building techniques on my next projects!  ;)

And ...by the way, getting caught up in the panel layout discussion, I forgot to thank you for the compliments on the looks of the kites! Thanks!

Bill


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Krijn on July 05, 2013, 01:26 PM
HUGO:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/hx4w0n.jpg)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: inewham on July 05, 2013, 01:34 PM
I was wondering if any of you all have built them scaled down and whether you liked the scaled down version as well as the originals ...and what if any flight characteristic changes you noticed!

Not those kites specifically but generally speaking as the kite gets smaller it helps to add a little extra depth or the kite can feel quite skittish. Reduce something to 75% and it starts to get a bit flat

2. In any case, once you have decided to scale down, why only 90%? Would seem such a small reduction...

Dating back to the 90s 75% and 90% have been historically popular scalings because they equated to 125cm / 150cm leading edges and 62.5 / 75cm spreaders. This meant that by the time you added the spare from the upper spreader to the tail you could have no waste from 3m lengths of pultrude



Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Krijn on July 05, 2013, 01:38 PM
i like the red/black/mylar one a lot!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 01:55 PM
HUGO:
([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/hx4w0n.jpg[/url])


Hmmmmmmm. Thanks for posting. I guess I'll need to look at a few more of my kites to see how their center panels are angled to the spine! It seams there are different schools of thought!  ;)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 02:01 PM
i like the red/black/mylar one a lot!

Thanks Krijn! I do too! I can't wait to get it up in the sky to see what it looks like in flight!

Hopefully tomorrow if the winds aren't too strong for it! I still need to make the bridles but they are ready to go after that!

I'd like to try both of the ones I made for myself! Interested to see what ...if any difference there is between the two, since I double-sewed the trailing edge of the UL instead of using a leech line! The outer portion of the wing is pretty taught but the part from the standoffs to the keel are not on that kite!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 05:31 PM
I didn't think the earlier photo did my standard 6th Sense 85 justice so I took another one this evening! Still not ideal lighting but the colors showed up a little better on this one.

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/9220260662_76cfcaa179_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: CTaylor on July 05, 2013, 05:42 PM
Very sharp looking kites Bill.  You have come a long way in your building skills since you returned to sewing a few years ago.

As for the diagonal to straight panel alignment discussion.  I've always been in the straight panel alignment on the spine because I believe hard nose crashes can stretch and stress along the center seam and the fabric itself.  The standoffs will create a little pucker on that center panel which can be adjusted out with standoff positioning and length, but having the strength along the spine, I believe helps the kite over the test of time to reduce stretch and wear.

Oh and btw, I'm still digging my ol canon 40D.   ;D


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 05, 2013, 06:46 PM
Very sharp looking kites Bill.  You have come a long way in your building skills since you returned to sewing a few years ago.

As for the diagonal to straight panel alignment discussion.  I've always been in the straight panel alignment on the spine because I believe hard nose crashes can stretch and stress along the center seam and the fabric itself.  The standoffs will create a little pucker on that center panel which can be adjusted out with standoff positioning and length, but having the strength along the spine, I believe helps the kite over the test of time to reduce stretch and wear.

Oh and btw, I'm still digging my ol canon 40D.   ;D

Thanks Chris! And thanks for the insight on the panel layout discussion. You gave some good food for though.

I'm glad your still enjoying the 40D! Believe it or not, I sometimes wish I still had that great camera. The 40D has a great balance of pixels, color saturation & dynamic range. Some of the most beautiful shots I've ever taken were with that gem! ;)


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Lou on July 05, 2013, 08:56 PM
i like the red/black/mylar one a lot!

As do I... it looks so much like my old 2002 GSXR 1000 color scheme!



Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: iwan00 on July 18, 2013, 01:32 AM
Hi I ahve build Invictus scaled down to 75%, the first performance was pretty poor because of very big oversteer. at the moment i have finished tuning an i am pretty satisfied with results.

I have reduced it to single standoff and shortened LS to improve sail billow. Bridle is very much modified to avoid oversteere.

After first part of correction:

invictus75 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZJbwhBMdY#ws)

here is sample video of current performance :

Invictus75 Łeba 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9iIKyS5Fi4#)

unfortunately poor quality and too strong wind for this kite
If You are intrested in specified plans I can update project and post it.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 18, 2013, 12:30 PM
iwan00 ...I had an extreme amount of oversteer with my full-sized Invictus. I routinely make my bridles with pigtails at each connecting points. I make 5 knots on the pigtails so that the center knot is where I larkshead the bridle leg for the default specification. The knots are approx. 1cm apart. This way I can make adjustments in either direction on all bridle legs if I need to for wind conditions or other reasons!

I ended up adjusting my Invictus to the top (closest to leading edge) knot on the ULE & the farthest outward knot ( farthest away from LE) on the LLE connector. THat solved the problem & made my Invictus a very enjoyable kite to fly! Although it flies differently from my full-sized 6th Sense ...I'm still undecided as to which one of the two excellent flying kites that I like flying the most!  ;)

Thanks for your offer on posting your mods! If I ever decide to build a scaled down Invictus, I think I would prefer one that is 85% like the 6th Sence 85s I have already built. 85% ends up being pretty much my preferred kite size.

Both the full-sized 6th Sense & Invictus were a surprise to me and the exception to the rule ...in that I was pleasantly surprised how much I like flying both ...even though both are quite a bit larger than the kites I usually prefer to fly!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: iwan00 on July 18, 2013, 11:37 PM
I ended up adjusting my Invictus to the top (closest to leading edge) knot on the ULE & the farthest outward knot ( farthest away from LE) on the LLE connector. THat solved the problem & made my Invictus a very enjoyable kite to fly!
Thanks for description of Your modifications.
I have performed very simillar adjustments, but i have also shortenned inner leg (To CT connector) a little bit.

In my opinion downsizaed kites are very demanding in clear inputs and can learn You a lot of precision but they gives a large amount of fun. They can perform tricks so fast that non of full size kite never does.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: ae on July 19, 2013, 09:54 AM
Sharp looking kites, good work building those.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: tpatter on July 19, 2013, 02:07 PM
I ended up adjusting my Invictus to the top (closest to leading edge) knot on the ULE & the farthest outward knot ( farthest away from LE) on the LLE connector. THat solved the problem & made my Invictus a very enjoyable kite to fly!
Thanks for description of Your modifications.
I have performed very simillar adjustments, but i have also shortenned inner leg (To CT connector) a little bit.

In my opinion downsizaed kites are very demanding in clear inputs and can learn You a lot of precision but they gives a large amount of fun. They can perform tricks so fast that non of full size kite never does.


I completely agree - smaller kites are just fun fun fun!  Also, due to less pull and smaller inputs, you can usually fly them more comfortably in higher winds.  One final bonus - when you go back to your larger, slower full sizer, everything seems easier because its all much slower.


-Tom



Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on July 21, 2013, 11:30 AM
Sharp looking kites, good work building those.

Thank you for the compliments!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on August 03, 2013, 08:08 AM
The forum seems to have slowed down a bit lately. I guess most are out flying and enjoying their kites instead of sitting home on forum chatting ...which is a good thing!

I just thought I'd update my last post after having a great flying session with my SS 85s. After my first flying session with the pair, I decided to swap out the rods between the two making the all ripstop one an UL instead of a std. version since it was the one with the silent flight due to the leach line. My reasoning was that I thought it would have a better low-wind performance and the mylar one a std. ...thinking that in higher winds the fluttering trailing edge would be an advantage in the higher wind range of the kite, slowing it down a bit for better control.

Last Saturday I headed off to the beach and enjoyed some lab-grade winds coming right off the ocean @ approx. 8-10 mph! Both kites flew excellently in those winds! I can't thank Davlde enough for sharing his orginal designs & the 85% specs and build details!

Lastly, I would strongly recommend to anyone who has built a full-sized SS ....don't hesitate on building an 85%er! You will NOT be sorry!  ;D


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Lou on August 03, 2013, 07:43 PM
What was the dimensions of the SS85.  I would really like something 220cm x 80cm.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on August 03, 2013, 10:25 PM
What was the dimensions of the SS85.  I would really like something 220cm x 80cm.

My SS85 measures 80" X 34" ...or 203cm X 86cm!


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: Lou on August 04, 2013, 06:09 PM
So maybe 90% is where I'm looking to go then.  I thought D.E. said the Supernova was a 95%reduced SS, but when he indicated a wingspan of 238cm that's not exactly what I thought would be the size unless it was a typo and he meant 228cm.  I think 228 would also be a perfect size for my skill and enjoyment range.


Title: Re: Scaled down 6th Sense or Invictus? Anyone made one?
Post by: photogbill on August 04, 2013, 07:00 PM
So maybe 90% is where I'm looking to go then.  I thought D.E. said the Supernova was a 95%reduced SS, but when he indicated a wingspan of 238cm that's not exactly what I thought would be the size unless it was a typo and he meant 228cm.  I think 228 would also be a perfect size for my skill and enjoyment range.

I haven't done the math on a 90% reduction but I don't think you have to be worried about the smaller size SS85 being too fast or above your skill level. The SS85 flies really nicely for a smaller kite, much better than most kites it's size, IMO! If you are worried about the speed, you might want to make yours without a leech line to slow it down a little (like one of the ones I made). It will make some noise but not anything horrendous! Even though they both fly extremely well and very similar, I personally prefer having the leech line in it for silent flight! 

Anyway, whatever route you take, good luck with it and keep us posted!