GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: Lou on July 07, 2013, 04:17 PM



Title: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 07, 2013, 04:17 PM
I know there has already been a simply large number of Sixth Sense build threads so I won't bore you with build stories.  Here's a number of images I collected and just finished sewing the sail.  It was a bit unorthodox as I modified the plans to incorporate additional panels for Mylar and had to also create a special blueprint for laying down and aligning the entire central portion of the kite to properly install the Mylar spine window.  I did not want a spine seam through the Mylar.  I really loved how my Quartz in these colors looked in the sky so I used some charcoal to replace black and used basically the same color scheme.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-05_17-12-40_159.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-05_17-12-50_619.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-05_17-13-44_815.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-27-53_733.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-28-08_881.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-28-29_289.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-28-45_339.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-30-36_778.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-07_14-30-46_467.jpg)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Ara Ararauna on July 07, 2013, 04:29 PM
Hmmm... Looking great!  :D


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: photogbill on July 07, 2013, 04:51 PM
I agree! It's looking sharp, Lou! Is that florescent yellow?



Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: kepople on July 07, 2013, 05:22 PM
lovin it! Flour yellow is a great color


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 07, 2013, 05:49 PM
I agree! It's looking sharp, Lou! Is that florescent yellow?



Yes, I had purchased rolls of everything gray scale in PC31.  Then I had just bought Flo-Yel, and a nice Royal Blue.  My son wants his SS in a blue scheme so I'll knock out a regular SS in just PC31 in Blue as he likes.  I told myself I would always create every new kite in a completely different color scheme but I loved this scheme in the sky.  So bright and easy to track in clear skies or cloudy.  With all the buzz about how nice this kite flies I figured it best to make this one in my favorite colors as I would likely fly it the most often.  I need to order some additional colors of PC31 though.  I would really like to grab at least a nice Red, Flo-Org, Purple and Pink (hoping wife will want to go flying soon with us!)

One question though.  I wondered if I should create a Dacron spine pocket like with Christian Derefat Kites?  Or just Mylar reinforce the Nose and Tail ends and use the standard round Cordura shape for an all-in-one nose cap reinforcement and spine pocket?


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: sugarbaker on July 07, 2013, 09:43 PM
Keep in mind that the spine can work its way through cordura or seatbelt webbing if you don't use a pocket in the nose. 


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Krijn on July 08, 2013, 12:44 AM
nice!


do you enjoy the mylar  :D ;D
remember, it was only 2m...


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 08, 2013, 04:39 AM
Keep in mind that the spine can work its way through cordura or seatbelt webbing if you don't use a pocket in the nose. 

Ok dacron pocket same as I have made before will be used then.  Wasnt sure on what pattern should be used.  1inch strip over the nose or something more fancy?


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 08, 2013, 04:41 AM
nice!


do you enjoy the mylar  :D ;D
remember, it was only 2m...

Yes! But this was my last indulgence.  Moving forward I will save the Mylar for reinforcement only.  Although I still need to get working on Christian's Monster also.  Lots of Mylar there.... <gets out credit card and opens webpage to overseas suppliers...> :'(


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 10, 2013, 01:10 PM
I just noticed the Velcro strap appears to be approx. 3/4in or maybe 20mm actually in width as well as the bottom of the Dacron portion.  Is this correct and if so has anyone altered the pattern to fit 25mm(1 in.) Velcro instead.  I am thinking about creating an altered Dacron piece to accommodate 25mm Velcro.  I hot cut 25mm down to 20mm and it simply looks like $h!t.  Any ideas would be helpful. 


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Stuart99 on July 10, 2013, 01:24 PM
I just cheated mine a little wider. No biggie and hardly any increase in weight. I kept the piece of velcro that was sewn to the sail at 1" too


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 10, 2013, 01:59 PM
I just cheated mine a little wider. No biggie and hardly any increase in weight. I kept the piece of velcro that was sewn to the sail at 1" too

Thanks Stuart.  I'm drafting a new Dacron piece that will be 1 additional inch longer to give me a cleaner looking wrap to the back and will accommodate 1 in. Velcro.  Thanks again for the confirmation.  I could have finished the kite today likely but this frustrated me so that I've put the sail away until the weekend.  I definitely like kite building as a relaxing hobby, but as soon as it becomes frustrating time to take a break.   ;)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 11, 2013, 02:54 PM
Ok got to this point with the Sixth Sense but have fallen into some confusing issues build wise.  Although I will need to sew the nose cap again to bring the leading edge spars closer, I'm not sure what I was thinking, the kite still does not meet frame specifications at the top portion of the kite.  The upper spreader seems to pull the leading edges inward and doesn't come close to the upper spreader Velcro protection tab.  The sail was sewn to spec and checked repeatedly.  Only when I created a 590mm upper spreader and lowered the upper spreader connectors down a bit could I get the kite to look normal (as seen in the pictures below).  Again the top isn't meeting the correct measurements.  Any help on how I can go about figuring where to start to figure out my issue is greatly appreciated.  Could not sewing the nose cap to allow the leadings edges to closely meet the spine cause that much of an issue?


(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-11_17-33-20_775.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-11_17-33-26_748.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-11_17-33-16_588.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-11_17-34-27_664.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-11_17-34-11_486.jpg)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: sugarbaker on July 11, 2013, 03:49 PM
Lou,
I will point out that having the leading edges pulling inward is actually intentional.  Compare your pics to the majority of SS pics out there and I susect you'll see that the nose portion of your model is looking too wide.  There are a number of kites and designs out there that utilize this... and create and 'S' shaped leading edge.  One of my favorite kites, the Focus Jinx uses this same technique.  It creates a slightly loose area in the sail that will form a more pronounced air foil shape while in flight.


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Stuart99 on July 11, 2013, 05:41 PM
I interpreted the nose for this build to be like the nose on the Invictus, without the small seam that keeps the spine from reaching the tip of the nose. My guess is that resewing the nose will straighten everything out.

A pattern for the Invcitus is on the templates page of the plan.


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Stuart99 on July 11, 2013, 05:49 PM
Here ya go:

(http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af139/intimig8r99/1nose_zpsb2fc2a73.png)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 11, 2013, 08:29 PM
Thanks Stuart/Stephen!

I actually had printed out a number of plans on A0 and found I had the Invictus.  I used that very image and corrected my existing nose cap without much issue.  The leading edges came right up to the spine as it should.  I adjusted the leading edge sail tension and triple checked all points and to make sure everything falls into spec.  The nose definitely isn't as wide as before and looks much more pointed again.  I didn't realize the SS was designed like that.  First time I had seen a leading edge bend like that!  ;)

The upper spreader still sits slightly higher than center on the rub patch but it appears many builds come out like that I guess.  If you are taking measurements from the end of the leading edge spar where it now touches the center spine, then it lands dead center on the rub patch.  I've decided to set all measurements now from the starting end of the leading edge and everything looks pretty darn nice.  I'll have the stoppers in place and glued this weekend and finish the bridle now that I know the frame is proper.  I do have one more question, how far from the center-T is the first standoff?  Then the second from the first?  Mine is currently set at 305mm from dead center on the R-Sky Center-T to the center seam of the inner standoff connector.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/spar.jpg)

I'll also snap some updated images in the morning so the kite can be looked over.  I think it's all set though.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 12, 2013, 06:41 AM
Corrected assembly images of my Custom Sail Sixth Sense STD Pro:

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-51-12_273.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-50-39_812.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-50-18_633.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-50-24_313.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-50-30_320.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-51-23_593.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-51-36_455.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-52-07_505.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-51-47_707.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-52-27_770.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-53-09_809.jpg)



Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: sugarbaker on July 12, 2013, 03:57 PM
Now it's lookin right!  Well done!


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 12, 2013, 04:04 PM
Now it's lookin right!  Well done!

Thank you!  It felt really good to build this one in particular.  I felt pretty proud about it this morning but I must admit it feels good when you guys think it looks like a good job.  Thanks again for the help.  If anyone can provide those measurements that would be great also!


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: coogee on July 12, 2013, 04:18 PM
Great build good look'n kite
 Mike


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: sugarbaker on July 12, 2013, 06:32 PM
I don't have the exact measurements (kite is in the car ready for kite festival in Westport, WA tomorrow), but I can tell you that I have rarely measured.  I put the standoff where it is ninety degrees of the spreader, and then on occasion move the connector 5mm closer to the Center T (on the lower spreader) in order to put a mild inward push (lower spreader pushed into center T).  This was a hint that I think Ken McNeill mentioned to me as a way to help keep your spreader seated in the event of a crash (I've never had a spreader pop out of the center T on any of Ken's kites... so maybe it works!).

Once I have one side set where I want it, I just measure and set the opposite side at the same.  Once the first kite is in the place I like, I usually compare future builds to that one (if they are still in my possession).

Anyway, just go out and fly that thing.  it will be a blast. 


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 14, 2013, 05:34 PM
Ok just got back from a fun and encouraging weekend of flying the new Sixth Sense and I did have some concerns about its flight characteristics.  With a bridle setting of 51up/51out/64in I did like its flight in 7-10mph winds.  I had 23g ballast also.  I increased ballast (at one point up to 33g and although yoyos became easier I still noticed this inability to go from flare to fade from a downward flight path center wind window.  The same went from a ground recovery where in the flare position (belly down on the ground) you can pop the kite into the air and sit the kite into a fade position.  I guess also known as  Fade Launch :)  This was also very difficult to do initiallly. 

Now the flare was easy enough to initiate in the air, I had to however with an increased amount of effort and low success rate could not complete a clean transition to a fade.  So after many hours of bridle adjustments and weight changes I seem to find comfort in a 52.5up/49.5out/65in and staying with 25g ballast.  It still appears there is an increased amount of input needed when going from flare to fade as compared to the Quartz, but it is much more consistent to complete now.  Everything else trick wise that I can do appears to be there without issue.

Anyone have any input on their settings or experiences with the SS? I would also be interested in anyone using a turbo or reverse turbo and what settings they use. 


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: sugarbaker on July 14, 2013, 08:01 PM
I've not experienced any of he issues you mention... I'm happy with the bridle in the original configuration.


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Stuart99 on July 15, 2013, 04:07 AM
I haven't had any issues with mine either. Try a slower, sweeping input and see if that helps. Not all kites like to be popped into a fade from a flare--the Invictus even more so than the SS.


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 15, 2013, 09:18 AM
I haven't had any issues with mine either. Try a slower, sweeping input and see if that helps. Not all kites like to be popped into a fade from a flare--the Invictus even more so than the SS.

Actually late last night I was getting very tired from being out flying for hours and working on the kite.  I actually noticed I was popping (gorilla flight style) less and pulling (sweeping action more so) which may be exactly why I was starting to be able to Flare>>>Fade where before I couldn't.  I had also noticed when belly down on the ground pointed away that when I performed a more longer pull back of the lines rather than a strong pop of the lines the kite behaved better.  I guess I need set the kite back to stock bridle.  Although setting the bridle "heavy" @ 52/49 rather than 51/51 I shouldn't be as an issue either.  I haven't modified the bridle from stock in anyway.  Just set for higher wind.  I was just shocked that the Quartz and the SS were so very different with the one particular motion.  Everywhere else it is just amazing to watch in the air.  I love executing axles and taz's with it.  Looks so nice!

The SS reminds me alot of a Nirvana although I have had little time with that kite as well as it was borrowed for a an hour on a beach years back.


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: tpatter on July 15, 2013, 11:41 AM
I too, notice no oddities with the kite as you describe - its flick-flacks and fades much better than most kites in my opinion. 


But, as we are on the subject, I have been tweaking things slightly and would be interested in what others may think or have tried. 

Overall, I like the kite very much - it's a winner and I do agree that it fits into the well-behaved and predictable Nirvana-style handling and flight category, although the SS seems to be more eager to trick and some tricks like the Taz are super-easy on it.

One thing that I sought to improve was the multi-lazy.  It's ok as-is, but I wanted it to be more locked in and flatter.  So, I tried moving the lower APA down a bit and it worked - the kite stays in the lazy more solidly, maintains the riser position more solidly, and I think cometes better when there is little sail pressure.  I changed nothing else about the kite and there seem to be no ill-affects.  I'm going to move it back next time out and compare again.

Anyone tried this or other minor tweaks? 

The kite does seem to be resilient to a wide variety of modifications while retaining its overall abilities (much like the Nirvana as well as Lam's kites).

Thanks,
-Tom


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 15, 2013, 03:27 PM
What I was noticing was it appeared to always not get the Flare to Fade completed as easily as I could with the Quartz.  Of course the smaller kite should by all means permit at least that manuever an easier transition.  I just seemed to always find myself unable to transition easily and find that from the Flare the kite lawn darting downward again.  Again I may just need to focus on completing a more "flat" Flare and then pull into a Fade rather than pop or aggressively pull into Fade.  May just simply be my style as I am still a novice.  Just disconcerning that I could do it easily on one kite and not as easy on another.  Maybe there are bridle issues, build issues or something I just don't see.

It would be sad to park this kite for for something I hope can be understood or corrected.  We will see...


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Stuart99 on July 15, 2013, 03:41 PM
If all kites flew exactly the same, we would only need one kite, right? ;)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: tpatter on July 15, 2013, 04:30 PM
  I just seemed to always find myself unable to transition easily and find that from the Flare the kite lawn darting downward again.  Again I may just need to focus on completing a more "flat" Flare and then pull into a Fade rather than pop or aggressively pull into Fade. 

I think that you've got this right.  It's a big kite with a large sail.  Try getting it flatter.  I've found its pretty forgiving even if you over-rotate beyond horizontal.  I have not tried the "pop it on the way out to the flare and flop it over" flare to fade.  I will give that a go next time that I am out.

-Tom


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 15, 2013, 04:40 PM
If all kites flew exactly the same, we would only need one kite, right? ;)

Amen!  ;D

How much ballast are you guys using and what weight system are you using.  I current have 20g as a brass rod in the spine and then 5g lead weight velcro'd to bottom of tail inside strap. 

Just wondered since many SS seem to use the french style weight bar at the very end of the spine.  This style of weight system defintely would have a more pendulum effect than running up the spine as I have it set.  Wonder if that has any effect at all??

I also see many fliers will actually go to the Fade position through a Fractured Axle.  I guess I need to brush up on my axles and start pulling into the fade position that way rather than flare position.  So much to learn and not enough wind!!  :D


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: mdilucca on July 15, 2013, 07:59 PM
Send it to me Lou ;) I'll fix it  :P

Cheers
Mario


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 16, 2013, 04:17 PM
Send it to me Lou ;) I'll fix it  :P

Cheers
Mario


I am already working on another SS sail in a Blue Scheme for my oldest son and it looks to be a nice color scheme.  I probably should have waited for the Supernova plans to be released.  Who knows I may opt for another color choice or smaller variant and this one will be in the Swap Meet!  ;D

***EDIT***

There will be no SixthSense placed in any Swap Meet!  :-\

I was watching some mama74 tutorial videos along with the Prism Videos and watched repeatedly the manners in doing a Fade Launch and Flare-to-Fade action and noticed immediately that I was INCREDIBLY popping the lines INCREDIBLY TOO HARD rather than pull/sweep the lines back with then providing sufficient slack immediately.  I ran outside late last night to at least try this on the ground and it WORKED!  The kite is absolutely perfect, it was I that sucked terribly as a pilot.  With a smooth sweeping motion backwards the nose simply rolled under itself and immediately entered the Fade position.  I will go out later this morning and practice this same motion when it's in the air.  Amazing how much less effort and smooth the action is now.  I need to review all these videos again.  They all seem to be telling me things I guess I wasn't comprehending a couple months ago.  Can't wait for the weekend!  I still need to practice the Fracture Axle - Fade entry.

***UPDATE 7/17/2013 1:00pm EST***

Super short clip from my upcoming cinematic trick video on Youtube (just kidding!) of a flare/fade/somethingIsawKrijndosortamove proving the kite just simply rocks and I just absolutely sucked as a pilot earlier!  :D

Sixth Sense Fade Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T4WVaBf8e0#ws)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: photogbill on July 18, 2013, 12:36 PM
Corrected assembly images of my Custom Sail Sixth Sense STD Pro:

([url]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/2013-07-12_07-51-12_273.jpg[/url])




I deleted all but one image in my above 'quote' to save thread space. Just wanted to compliment you on a beautiful build! That's a gorgeous 6th sense! I see you went with my mylar center panel idea and upped it one with your mylar spine panel! It has a very classy look! Well done!  ;)


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: Lou on July 18, 2013, 01:57 PM
Yes! I liked that I had seen your builds include Mylar in the sail areas also.  I was trying to replicate this design that D.E. created with a slight variation in the center sail panel.  (Honestly just lazy to chop up that panel and do anymore sewing!) 

Thank you very much on the compliments.  Still a newbie builder but I have been improving with every build! 

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/MylarCharcoal.jpg)

I flew my new SS all day yesterday at Cocoa Beach... wow am I in love with this kite and can't wait to build a SS85 and a Supernova when it becomes available!!!


Title: Re: Late to the Party Sixth Sense
Post by: photogbill on July 18, 2013, 02:17 PM
Yes! I liked that I had seen your builds include Mylar in the sail areas.  I was trying to replicate this design that D.E. created with a slight variation.  Thank you very much on the compliments.  Still a newbie builder but I have been improving with every build! 

([url]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r167/photobucket2007_bucket/MylarCharcoal.jpg[/url])

I flew this kite all day yesterday at Cocoa Beach... man I am in love and can't wait to build a SS85 and a Supernova!!!


You're doing an excellent job on your builds ...especially for someone who is so new to kite building! Your taste in color combos is very nice as well! Keep up the good work!

Trust me on this one ....you will NOT be disappointed in the SS85!   ;D

I too am looking forward to building Davide's newest model, the Supernova! He sure does have a talent for designing great flying kites! I'll probably get around to making an Invictus 85%er as well some day as well!