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Author Topic: Chicago Police  (Read 4222 times)
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 10:20 PM »

100%, that's the percentage of officers in this incident that are "bad". It doesn't matter if the victims provoked the officers. No one deserves to be beaten and left without medical attention especially by police officers. It doesn't matter if the police took part in the beating, stood by or looked the other way they are all guilty. I tend to think that the number of bad apples is a bit more than some would like to think but I hope it's not as many as I fear it is.
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 02:29 AM »

I think this is a worthy discussion, and thus far VERY good by GWTW standard.  Good on you all.

To address the question of provocation, I can offer some addition (albeit one sided) commentary.  Matt told me yesterday that there is a second video which shows the whole incident from beginning to end.  It's too graphic for release to the press, and will likely only be seen by the jury (should there be one). 

Matt says that in that video, you can clearly see him walk backward slowly while be threatened.  He then extends his hand (where he says he tried to offer to just say he was sorry, although he didn't know what he was apologizing for), when one of the two men just cold cocks him, dropping him to the floor.  That same guy then climbed on top and started wailing.  All on video.  Worse is that when his friend put his hands on the shoulders of the attacker, the second man tossed him head over heels into the pavement, where he promptly lost consciousness.  Worst of all, when the uniformed police officers arrived, they took over, kneeing his unconscious friend repeatedly to wake him.  They then lifted them over to the wall near a dumpster, and told them specifically they would do nothing to the two men, and that Matt and his friend should just forget about the incident.  Then all of the cops and alleged cops left. 

I say 'alleged' cops because the plainclothes officers were never identified definitively as cops.  Matt heard their female companion tell the friend to, *Stop fighting back, they are cops.  They are going to beat you worse if you don't.* This statement, along with the fact that they got off scott free without even any sort of attempt at find out who was at fault pretty much guarantees they were police officers.  However, the City of Chicago is still leaving that open for debate, and certainly has not offered the names of neither the responding uniforms nor the alleged plainclothes officers.

It's a crazy situation, where Matt feels scared and unsafe in his own home.  He also of course feels bad for having to in effect accuse police officers of crimes.  I think that is sort of akin to giving up a core belief (like police are the good guys, for example). 


I do think this kind of behavior has been around a long time.  Maybe even after 9/11 it's gotten worse, but that's less clear to me.  What is true is that there are more undertrained personnel in positions of great authority, like the TSA in airports, and there you get these 'attitude problems' which are unnecessary and inappropriate. 

This is certainly a case of police feeling more like prison guards than fellow citizens with an important job in the community.  Chicago Police are particularly well known for their 'brotherhood', so the whole situation doesn't surprise me once you get past the unprovoked nature of the incident.  It's very likely that the two attackers lied about what happened to get the uniforms on their side upon arrival.  I find it hard to believe they said, "We jumped these guys, can you cover for us?"

I am from a small town, where the TWO local police officers were family friends and were there to look out for you.  When you got stopped by county police, you got stopped because they needed to tell you to drive safe, not to see how many different crimes they could convict you of now that they had you pulled over.  We need more police officers who are people first, protecting their fellow citizens' rights and guaranteeing their safety rather than thinking more akin to prison guards who dislike their job.

Thanks for not getting the thread closed YET.  Smiley

obi
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RonG
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« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 04:37 AM »

Like I said, testosterone poisoning and perceived lack of accountability for their actions.

I've seen too many guys that just wanted to wail on someone choose "law enforcement" as a career.  Not saying all cops are like that, but enough to make sh!t like this happen pretty often.
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kitelover
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« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 06:48 AM »

Quote
It's too graphic for release to the press, and will likely only be seen by the jury (should there be one). 

I would think public awareness and outrage would be a good thing. A trial and possible settlement tends to get swept under the table. People like to think the Police are good and there to serve (I hope most of them are) and anyone they stop must have done something wrong. After seeing the recent BART shooting video, I had to question why a suspect laying on the ground, surrounded by Police Officers, needed to be Tazered at all.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 06:56 AM »

It is that "Brotherhood" mentality, I have relatives in law enforcement and I do believe they do a good & usually fair job but the mentality of "Us" against "Them" has gotten too deeply ingrained. In many cases the "Them" has become anybody who isn't one of "Us". In reality we are one of the "Us", we are their "Employers" but that's been forgotten with the close brotherhood mentality and lack of accountability. Since the problem has been ignored for so long the brotherhood has been extended to the Judges and in many cases the Lawyers, and WELL beyond. I could tell you horror stories that would make you shake in your boots, this isn't the place.

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johnfarl
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« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 09:05 PM »

9-11 has nothing to do with this.  Chicago has always been a place where police were typically a breed apart.  I remember when I moved there in 66 you kept a $20 bill paper clipped to your drivers liscense.  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous.  Seems not much has changed.

Where I am from now the cops and firemen are the good guys.  I respect them and would be friends with just about any of them.  It is a hard job.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2010, 08:44 PM »

...  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous. 

Chicago may be worse then many places, but we hear all the time how the Police etc. deserve such high pay from the taxpayers since their job is so dangerous. In reality it is far safer statistically then many other jobs rated by injury's or death's per man hour worked. My job is 3 times more dangerous then theirs. Fishermen, the most dangerous profession, are like 10 times more likely to be injured or killed.

Although I love my job and I would not want theirs so I'll give them that.



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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 02:37 AM »

9-11 has nothing to do with this.  Chicago has always been a place where police were typically a breed apart.  I remember when I moved there in 66 you kept a $20 bill paper clipped to your drivers liscense.  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous.  Seems not much has changed.

Where I am from now the cops and firemen are the good guys.  I respect them and would be friends with just about any of them.  It is a hard job.
9-11 is when we gave up our rights to our personal rights that used to be respected. To a greater extent, at least. You didn't have to worry about being randomly stopped, searched, and frisked. Now you can expect it in the train stations, the airport, going to any public event. It used to be that when I would get pulled over in my car, I would know why before I pulled over. Usually speeding... But now, I've been pulled over and given no reason, and let go, and still not knowing why I was pulled over in the first place.
The 'marshall law' powers that were given to the autorities on 9-11 will never be given back, I'm afraid, it's been almost 10 years, and there's no sign of them backing down here. And the attitude that goes with it... they could at least violate our rights with a smile...
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DWayne
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2010, 03:31 PM »

If there are good cops out there, they're few and far between.
Here's another example of the fine men and women in blue serving their community.  Sad
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_drug_charges_dropped

Denny
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indigo_wolf
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2013, 07:46 AM »

The end of the tale....

Chicago to pay $185,000 to settle case involving beating allegedly administered by off-duty police officers and covered up by on-duty colleagues

ATB,
Sam
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JimB
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« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2013, 11:34 AM »

Doesn't seem to be quite enough.
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2013, 04:44 PM »

Doesn't seem to be quite enough.
Is it ever?
Think about Halliburton only getting a 200,000 dollar fine from the feds for the gulf spill caused by their negligence Undecided
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