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Author Topic: Trouble getting the kite lay on its back...  (Read 1152 times)
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Ara Ararauna
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« on: September 26, 2013, 01:53 AM »

Don't think wrongly.  Roll Eyes

My issue is the start-off move of a Lazy Susan.
I have real difficulties getting the kite on its back when the wind is not very light.
What I do is fly the kite low and then turn to fly straight up. At this point I really move my arms back and throw them strongly forward while even jumping or running forward (now that I say this I probably look really dumb when doing this...  Embarrassed ).
Still the kite tends to keep flying up as opposed to flipping back.

Any tips on how to get this without ripping my arms off their shoulder joint will be greatly appreciated.   Smiley   Smiley

BTW, when I do get the kite on its back I am starting to get nice LZ's, cascading LZ's (two or three in a row) and I even started to climb the first steps of Jacob's Ladder! I get half a LZ, then pull the lines to flip the kite and enter a fade which is till a bit ephemeral but getting there.  Grin
I was so happy the other day I managed to start doing this. I felt really "pro", d'you know what I mean?   Cool

So for this I do need to be able to have an easy and smooth start of the LZ.
Thanks in advance.
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Bob D
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 03:49 AM »

If the wind is blowing too hard, flipping back into a turtle is REALLY hard in the middle of the wind window. You might want to try the side of the window where it's not so strong. It sounds like you're doing the right thing though. One thing you could try is a snap stall to get the wind out of the sail and then a snap, forward jump and release to get it on its back.
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jaydub
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 04:49 AM »

Worth trying a quick wrist snap before throwing your arms forward.  Has a similar effect to the snap stall as it momentarily speeds the kite up then releases the pressure from the sail.
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 05:25 AM »

If the wind is blowing too hard, flipping back into a turtle is REALLY hard in the middle of the wind window. You might want to try the side of the window where it's not so strong. It sounds like you're doing the right thing though. One thing you could try is a snap stall to get the wind out of the sail and then a snap, forward jump and release to get it on its back.

Thanks, however I was really not referring to strong wind. This is why I said it was "not very light wind". So I already get a bit of trouble when the wind is moderate.

Concerning the snap stall, hmmm... I knew I should have learnt it sooner  Embarrassed
I have tried it several times in the past but I either hit my hands with each other and get badly hurt, or I get a half axel, or I get the kite to wiggle a bit but it does not seem to feel my snap and refuses to stall...  Sad

I really can't understand what I need to do to effectively get a snap stall.
Any tips?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 05:30 AM by Ara Ararauna » Logged

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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 05:27 AM »

Worth trying a quick wrist snap before throwing your arms forward.  Has a similar effect to the snap stall as it momentarily speeds the kite up then releases the pressure from the sail.

Thanks jaydub, but what is a "wrist snap"?
I hadn't heard of this before.

Can you point me to a video showing it or provide some more details on its execution?
Thanks!
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Hadge
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 05:41 AM »

Hi Ara,

Once the wind starts to blow a little the easiest way to get into the backflip is to do the 'Snap lazy'. Take a look at Randy G's tutorial - input to get the kite on it's back is like a double 'punch' bang bang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6UrwpjEr44

In lighter wind you can also try, from having the kite pointing nose up, rock the kite back and forward a little as if you were doing a yoyo then give a little slack and it shoud go onto its back.

Remember, some kites will go onto their back more easily than others.
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 08:13 AM »

It's in Tim Benson's Trick or Treat DVD - look under Lazy Susan IIRC.

Just snap your wrists backwards immediately prior to throwing your hands forward.  Speed of execution is key.
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jim-bo
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 08:47 AM »

I think I have noticed that you have no trouble with 540s but can't do Lazy Susan. I have been trying to do 540 for a year now.  Lazy Susans have been easy from the beginning.  The snap is like you are snapping a towel at some one except your hands and arms are behind you ready to give lots of slack. I have trouble in very low wind with slack management the kite ether roles completely over or don't go over quite enough and just falls out of the air.
When I built my La quartz I had to have some weight on the tail for it to turtle well.
jimmy
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tpatter
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 09:54 AM »

Snap lazy is easiest and does not have to be very snappy in order to work.

Flying right to left, snap the left hand back while pushing the right hand forward and the kite will pop into a turtle faster than a Republican on a tax cut. 

The input does not have to be strong, just pull/pop at the same time.  Works in most any wind and it doesn't matter if you are flying across, up, or down the wind window. 

Good luck - try it, it's very easy and reliable.
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ko
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 10:34 AM »

learning to do a good snap stall teaches you this quickly. For me I was frustrated  because I could not keep the kite off it's back. So I learned the snap lazy (but didnt know what to do with it)before a good snap stall lol
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have fun kurt
thief
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 10:47 AM »

candles, soft music and a glass of wine?
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Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 11:15 AM »

Wow! Thanks all for so much information, tips and recipes.
I will surely try them all.

@Hadge: Yes! Yes! I see it!  Shocked  I wished I could go out right now and try it! I bet I would get the best Rollin' Susans ever (or perhaps not). In any case I think I perfectly understand it now and my motor system has assumed the control sequences...  Roll Eyes     Smiley

@jaydub: I don't have "Tim Benson's Trick or Treat DVD"  Sad But the video Hadge passed me is crystal clear to me. Thanks anyway for taking time to post the ref   Smiley

@jim-bo: 540's were almost the first trick (after axels and half axels) that I learnt. I found them so elegant I just couldn't stop trying until I got them. Thanks for the tips on the snap. Funny what you comment about the LeQuartz. With the way mine works I just can't have it off its back! For me LeQuartz = Turtle-kite!!! Which could seem good but it isn't. I can't do anything else with it... Embarrassed

@tpatter: Thanks for your description. I read it before I saw Randy G's tutorial and I think your words were really useful to make me ready to watch and understand the video. Thanks!  Smiley

@ko: OK! I will try to get the snap lazy and work from there to get the snap stall. Please report any progress on your side so that I can follow your footsteps.  Smiley

@thief: Oooooooh! I see! That's what I was missin'... I'll definitely try it.  Wink

Thanks guys!  Cheesy
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Hadge
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 12:10 PM »


@jim-bo: 540's were almost the first trick (after axels and half axels) that I learnt. I found them so elegant I just couldn't stop trying until I got them.

For me it was the other way around.  I found I could do Lazy Susans really quickly, but it took ages before I could get the 540 until one day it just clicked - the downside of learning on your own.  I agree with you, a really slow flat 540 is one of the nicest looking tricks you can do.
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ko
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 02:59 PM »

Ara that was over 5 years ago If you do not have a really good snap stall you should work on it along with the side slide, fade and all of the basics.. I actually went back and worked them (the basics) after a few years just to clean up my flying. They do make things come together with more panache IMO I will never be as smooth as Allen but if it was easy it would not be any fun for me
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have fun kurt
alien
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2013, 01:24 AM »

candles, soft music and a glass of wine?

                                  Cheesy
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