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Author Topic: When Extras Shouldn't Be Included  (Read 4537 times)
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chilese
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2009, 12:30 PM »

If you are not a Premium member, the ads are disgusting.

Even as a Premium member, they sneak ads for photo gifts to their own print shop onto every regular page under the guise that it is not an ad but an invitation to further use the features of Webshots.

But with 6000 or so pictures with text and a low cost, I'm a bit locked in.

I've even offered to pay extra for the removal of ads from my site, but was told there is no way to do that on an individual website basis.

thief, I totally understand not going to Webshots. Not a problem here big guy.  Smiley
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JimB
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 01:30 PM »

The quality of line, included with kites, is so much better today than it used to be.

It may need to be equalized.

Including a high quality line set would increase the cost of the package by 40-50%.
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chilese
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 01:33 PM »

Okay then.

Ditch the cheap line.

Lower the price of the kite to the retailer and buyer.

Let the kite shop owner and kite buyer decide what line should go with the kite at the time of purchase.
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JimB
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 01:35 PM »

That's not going to happen.

People expect there to be line, as they should.

The line is not that bad.
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fworley
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 01:37 PM »

I'm appalled.

I thought things had changed.

And this place was only going to be cuddles and Unicorns from now on

And then I read this Dodd baiting ...

Bingo up to his old tricks again ...

Despicable.

-Frazer
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chilese
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 01:57 PM »

Frazer,

I don't believe Dodd designed the lines. And the lines were the only thing I've spoken of as causing potential problems.

I was quite complimentary to the kite's trick ability, construction and storage bag.

It looks as if you are casting stones when no one else has cast any toward Dodd in this case (minor Biblical reference used other moderators).

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zippy8
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2009, 08:14 PM »

Those cases are better for newbies than a simple sleeve
But I'm not a newbie so for me it's a bad thing. And as the kite I'm alluding to (Prism's Zephyr) is aimed by the manufacturer at intermediate-competition any "it's good for the newbie"-related argument seems to be out of place.

Mike.
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dyfrgi
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 08:43 PM »

Those cases are better for newbies than a simple sleeve
But I'm not a newbie so for me it's a bad thing. And as the kite I'm alluding to (Prism's Zephyr) is aimed by the manufacturer at intermediate-competition any "it's good for the newbie"-related argument seems to be out of place.

The original complaint was that the cheap stretchy lines would turn off newbies to kiting, so it seemed germane. And yes, as you say, it's not great for people with lots of kites already - there are trade-offs to be made.

I suppose ideally, you should be able to pick your own package. Not the sort of thing I think is likely to become common any time soon, though, as volume is low. A retailer certainly could (and I'm sure some do) offer a package deal with lines.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2009, 02:16 AM »

OK, a couple have said leave the lines out.

Nope, telling a customer that the kite costs over $100 is shock enough for most prospective first time buyers, now tell them they'll have to plunk down another $45-$60 for lines and handles and you've probably lost them. At a minimum they'll turn to that $40 el cheapo kite with the Dacron lines instead.

Ready to Fly packaging is needed at most retailers, those nice padded bags or cases also increase shelf appeal.

I do agree that poor lines likely ruin first experiences as often as a poorly flying kite though. The last new dual line we tried from a major manufacturer (who everybody is anxiously awaiting new lines from) had lines that were over a foot out of balance, Rhonda couldn't keep the kite in the air and kept powering into the ground, thinking she'd forgotten how to fly. I took over and nearly did the same thing.

For me, a two loop diagnosis and a five minute fix.

For a new flier it's hours of frustration and a feeling that they've gotten ripped off.

You can fly with stretch, I've never had a problem even with cheap dacron lines that have far more stretch then the worst spectra/dyneema. But you can't fly when the lines are out of balance.

 
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zippy8
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2009, 02:33 AM »

If you are not a Premium member, the ads are disgusting.

What ads ?  Shocked

Quote
Ready to Fly packaging is needed at most retailers, those nice padded bags or cases also increase shelf appeal.

Then how about making sure that they are "Ready to Fly Well" packages. Either include suitable, no-adjustment-necessary items or forget it. Stretchy, poorly equalised lines are at least as likely to drive away repeat business.

Mike.
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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 02:22 PM »

the idea of bashing them here on the forum without approaching them first is not appealing to me since they are a new company starting out at a hard time in the kite world...

May I just point out that Skydog took the criticism well and responded positively to it, as revealed here.

We don't need to be exclusively unicorns and rainbows  Wink

Mike.
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DWayne
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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 02:42 PM »

Personally I think that using cheap line sets to reach a targeted retail price is a marketing blunder. Time will tell.


Denny
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dyfrgi
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 08:53 PM »

Personally I think that using cheap line sets to reach a targeted retail price is a marketing blunder. Time will tell.

Sadly, time probably won't tell - measuring such things is almost always impossible, given the absence of otherwise identical options.
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thief
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2009, 04:32 AM »

Personally I think that using cheap line sets to reach a targeted retail price is a marketing blunder. Time will tell.
Denny
but then HOW do you get to that price point?Huh
this is not a new thing....the kite manufacturers have always had that question....so in my view time IS telling-and it is telling that the manufacturers are willing to sacrifice the kick-ass-flightiness-of-a-better-line-set to be able to bring the price of the kites package down....and thus sell more.....


out of the thousands of sport kites i have sold maybe 10% came back to get a second kite or more....most people wanted the cheapest thing that they could get for the day...then tossed the kite into the corner afterward....not necessarily because the lines were stretchy-the people out there just starting dont know about that....they just want to have fun doing something different...and if they are able to get the kite up in the air and tool around with it then they got their money worth....
i cannot tell you how many yard sales in Newport RI have some REALLY nice kites at for pennies on the dollar!!!!


it has already been proven that the money to be made in kite retail is not the high-end top-of-the-pop sport kite...to make money in this biz you have to sell the volume....and if a cheaper package makes more volume the sellers (albeit it retail or wholesale) will do it....
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DWayne
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2009, 04:57 AM »

If Skydog is targeting the one time use weekend kite market then they didn't make a marketing blunder. If on the other hand they're looking for repeat customers, maybe they have.


Denny
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