GWTW Forum
April 23, 2014, 11:06 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns?  forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: B'zar 2011 on the table  (Read 1480 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 11:57 AM »


In the end, about 1cm of the sail is trimmed off the nose (prior to finishing re-enforcements).
Then, the nose pocket is stitched about a centimeter lower than the end of the sail (if you are referencing the build I documented a few years ago, I did not follow the plan exactly, so keep that in mind.)

With those two differences, I would make the assumption that the 550mm indicated in the framing plan indicate the distance from the Center T to the end of the spine (the actual spar).  Regardless of this, I would not cut the hole for the Center T until you are further in the build and you can test this theory by fitting the spine and measuring.  Then you can compare measurement to the marked plan location.

Anyway, you're making excellent process.  I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Thanks for the response.  I think your right on this one.  I'm going to test fit first and then cut.

Logged
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1698


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 12:40 PM »

I need a little help with the center T location. The plan say that it is located 550 mm from nose but the markings on the full size are closer to 570 mm  also the distance between the upper and lower spreader on the full size plans are different from the measurements on the frame details picture. Any suggestions, thoughts?
What I found best with mine is to measure the leading edge fittings from the center of the spine at the top of the rod (not the top of the nose) and the center T from the top of the spine rod to the top of the fitting(Locations are for stops and not the fitting itself).  Steve opted to cut off the 1 CM of nose that the plans say to sew which changes how the nose fits and shapes which also changes the frame measurements some(roughly 1/4 inch on the LE fittings).  If  you are sticking to the plans and not following Steves nose deviation then use my method of measuring.  If Steve measures using my method and then compares stop locations with LE rods out of the kite, his stops will be about 1/4 inch higher than mine due to the fact that his nose deviation drops the LE rods lower than how Werner planned it.  How Steve's change compares to the plan in flight we won't know unless we can fly side by side.

Also note that if you don't tie the bridle like Steves example with the knots centered over the fittings, and instead opt to tie it above the upper fitting and below the lower fitting stop like most kites then  you will need to add 1.6 cm to the length of the activator.  I missed this in my build and it really affected flight poorly.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 12:44 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
sugarbaker
Trade Count: (+7)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 696


Location: Seattle, WA

« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 05:31 PM »

I think in my next build of the b'zar, I'll be building the nose as the plan shows... Then I can compare how they fly. 
Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2014, 04:45 AM »

This might be a dumb question but, should I cut off the point between the mylar spine reinforcement at the nose then measure down from the new flat part of the nose?   
Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2014, 04:46 AM »

I need a little help with the center T location. The plan say that it is located 550 mm from nose but the markings on the full size are closer to 570 mm  also the distance between the upper and lower spreader on the full size plans are different from the measurements on the frame details picture. Any suggestions, thoughts?
What I found best with mine is to measure the leading edge fittings from the center of the spine at the top of the rod (not the top of the nose) and the center T from the top of the spine rod to the top of the fitting(Locations are for stops and not the fitting itself).  Steve opted to cut off the 1 CM of nose that the plans say to sew which changes how the nose fits and shapes which also changes the frame measurements some(roughly 1/4 inch on the LE fittings).  If  you are sticking to the plans and not following Steves nose deviation then use my method of measuring.  If Steve measures using my method and then compares stop locations with LE rods out of the kite, his stops will be about 1/4 inch higher than mine due to the fact that his nose deviation drops the LE rods lower than how Werner planned it.  How Steve's change compares to the plan in flight we won't know unless we can fly side by side.

Also note that if you don't tie the bridle like Steves example with the knots centered over the fittings, and instead opt to tie it above the upper fitting and below the lower fitting stop like most kites then  you will need to add 1.6 cm to the length of the activator.  I missed this in my build and it really affected flight poorly.

thats very helpful thanks!
Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 04:02 PM »

now for the trailing edge.  I bind this part with ripstop.  I cut a strip which is 1.5".  The main point here is a cut on the bias.  That is I cut diagonally across the fabric.  Notice the directions of the diamonds/ squares in this pic.



I then do a double fold.  Folded in the centre then on each side.  It is more work but should fray less with time and gives a clean finish. 

I hate sewing over tape because of the buildup of glue on the needle.  So I tack the binding down with a straight stitch  on the bottom and only through the sail and bottom piece of ripstop.  I then finish it off with a straight stitch through all layers.  Below you can see two row of stitching on the back (top piece) and just one on the front (bottom).



I start at the wingtip and go to the centre of the right wing, then cut it flush. 



I then mark the mitred corner (the Mark is big so it would show up on camera), cut and start the second wing. 



mitred corner



Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2014, 04:14 PM »

I'm going to preface this next post by saying that I do like to try new ways of doing things.  I post them not because they are necessarily the best way to do things, but to simply give a different approach which might spark some other ideas in other individuals.

This one I did really like...

I typically use the over the corner method for folding fabric.  One problem I've run into is your fold may start to go off centre. 

Here's the new tool I used.



It's a thumb pick.

I would line up the edges with my left hand



Then drag the pic down with my right hand



I couldn't keep both hands on when I took the pics.  With this method I had good control over the fold because I could hold the position with my left and drag with my right hand.  I could then reposition with both hands and keep moving.

Logged
sugarbaker
Trade Count: (+7)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 696


Location: Seattle, WA

« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2014, 04:48 PM »

Thats a great method for the trailing edge (and leading edge too I suspect).  Thats what I love about this forum... new ideas all the time! I would love to integrate your method in my next build.  Thanks for sharing (and good idea with the thumb pick as well)
Logged
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1698


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 10:58 AM »

Nice idea on the pick. I do a similar method using a thimble or a piece of 1" pvc pipe.  I also have a Sealing iron I use for doing monokote on my airplanes that I use on a low heat setting for creasing the heavier LE fabric.
Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 02:28 PM »

Here's how I finished the leech line and tail

first I use an upholstery needle and thread the line down the trailing edge



I then poke the needle through the mylar and trailing edge binding out the back about 5 mm above the tail



I then repeat this process on the other side



this brings my leech line out the back and is not visible from the front




I then burn a hole through the tail strap and pull the lines through



front view

Logged
sugarbaker
Trade Count: (+7)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 696


Location: Seattle, WA

« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2014, 06:18 PM »

You continue to impress.  Very nice!  I'm looking forward to how you will stitch the nose on your B'zar, I've found that stitching the nose (in the past) was a source of frustration for me... and I've learned some valuable lessons to get the results I do today.  I'm always on the look out for new tricks/techniques though.  Keep up the great work.
Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2014, 08:57 AM »

Kites finished!

Here are some pics







I had it out for a couple of hours this morning in light wind. I'm in Halifax Nova Scotia which should be cold in jan but it was sunny and 12 deg C!

I am happy with how it flies and looks in the sky.  I am still very very early in the learning process on dual line flying.  It's very interesting to compare the flight to the 6th sense. 

One interesting thing that I noted with this kite is when attempting half axles if I just pop the upper wing and give slack the kite does a backflip and sticks in that position.  It seemed to want to stay in a turtle position all day.  Not sure what that means, if anything.   Fades also seem to hold better, but like I said I'm still very new to flying so very inconsistent with my tricks.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 09:16 AM by DMF » Logged
DMF
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


Location: Dartmouth, NS

« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2014, 09:01 AM »

Heres the bag I made for these kites.  It has both the 6th sense and the Bzar in it.  I followed the tutorial found here http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9310



Logged
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1698


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2014, 11:34 AM »

Kites finished!

Here are some pics







I had it out for a couple of hours this morning in light wind. I'm in Halifax Nova Scotia which should be cold in jan but it was sunny and 12 deg C!

I am happy with how it flies and looks in the sky.  I am still very very early in the learning process on dual line flying.  It's very interesting to compare the flight to the 6th sense. 

One interesting thing that I noted with this kite is when attempting half axles if I just pop the upper wing and give slack the kite does a backflip and sticks in that position.  It seemed to want to stay in a turtle position all day.  Not sure what that means, if anything.   Fades also seem to hold better, but like I said I'm still very new to flying so very inconsistent with my tricks.

Looks great.  As for your flight behavior, I have the same tendencies in my B'zar so its definitely the kite.  I'm going back over frame and bridle on mine again to see if I have something off before I chalk it up to a designed in trait.  I'm fanatical for making sure I got it built right per the plans before I tinker.  Did you use my way of measuring the frame locations?
Logged
KaoS
Trade Count: (+16)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 518


Location: Willunga, South Australia

WWW
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2014, 04:39 PM »

I'm always on the look out for new tricks/techniques though.

Looking good, DMF!!

New techniques?  I'm always intrigued that some people sew the trailing edge and then thread the leech line in.  I feed the leech line in as I'm sewing.
Logged

Kevin Sanders

Willunga, South Australia
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear in the right margin of the forum and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom of the page)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them. >>>
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.


member support is greatly appreciated!



Untitled Document
J Hall Photography

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!