GWTW Forum
September 23, 2014, 01:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Need help with new Prism 4D attaching bridle lines  (Read 4720 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« on: February 14, 2014, 08:29 PM »

I just got a new Prism 4D today and was setting  it up and I have one question that I cannot seem to find an answer for.  There are two long bridle lines that come from the T connector at the rear of the kite, and connect to the Red and Dark Blue Leaders. These lines end in a larks head knot, and then attach somewhere on the leaders. The leader ( I will just talk about the red one), has 3 knots in it's 5" length, one at each end, and one in the middle. One end is where the kite line is attach ( lets call that knot 1) , the other end attaches to the prussik knot which is the bridle adjustment ( lets call that knot 3) . I understand how the bridle adjustment works, and that  is not a problem.

My problem, is exactly where do I attach the long bridle line that comes from the T-connector using the provided larks head knot?  If I attach it between any of the 3 knots, the larks head seems to be free to slide around between the knots on either side of it, as soon as there is some slack in the line. I also can't figure out if the larks head knot should be between knot 1 and the middle knot  or between the middle knot  and knot 2.

I would have posted this on the Prism Forum, but I find it impossible to register on that forum after 2 weeks of trying.

Sorry, I just noticed I posted this in the wrong forum. Don't know how to move it. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:00 PM by Captainbob » Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
tpatter
Trade Count: (+21)
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1973

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 09:24 PM »

A picture would help I think.

I'll take a picture of mine for your if that would help.

In the meantime, enjoy this video I took of flying mine a few years ago.


http://youtu.be/RgnoJNNA2ao

I won this kite by participating in Virtual Freestyle.  The kite was donated by the owner and sponsor of this forum - Steve Hall. 
Logged

6 kite tom
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 01:23 AM »

A picture would help I think.

I'll take a picture of mine for your if that would help.

In the meantime, enjoy this video I took of flying mine a few years ago.


http://youtu.be/RgnoJNNA2ao

I won this kite by participating in Virtual Freestyle.  The kite was donated by the owner and sponsor of this forum - Steve Hall. 


Hi,

Great Video and flying...


The reason I didn't include a picture, but a description of the issue instead , is because I am not sure where to attach the larks head knot when taking the picture, which is my problem in the first place. I guess what I am trying to say, is if I have the long bridle line from the t connector ( one going to the Red leader, and the other going to the dark blue leader) ending in the larks head in my hand, where exactly  on the red leader line, do I attach this knot?  So, if someone has this connected correctly on their 4D, they would just have to see where the two lines from the T connector attach to the red and blue leaders.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 04:49 AM by Captainbob » Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
Hadge
Trade Count: (0)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 615


Location: Lincolnshire, UK

« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 02:39 AM »

This is the standard Prism set up with the line from the centre T below the 2nd knot. Don't worry if it slides up and down, when it is flying it will be forced against the knot by the wind pressure on the sail.




However you can also fly it with the line from the centre T attached just below the 3rd  (top) knot which alters the way the kite flies and which some people prefer.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 04:40 AM by Hadge » Logged

Age and cunning will always overcome youth and skill!

In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 04:45 AM »

That's what I needed to know.. Thank you very much. 
Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
dayhiker
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61


Location: Chilhowie, Virginia

« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 07:13 AM »

Hadge, I see your angle of attack adjustment is in the middle of the adjustment range.  This is where I fly mine all the time now.  I have tried the light wind setting numerous times but don't seem to show any improvement with it set there for my skills anyway.  Seems like I can keep better sail pressure with the middle setting.  In higher winds I switch to my HQ Shadow which is another kite I really enjoy.  Great pictures & very helpful, thanks.

image of my current bridle settings
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 12:21 PM by dayhiker » Logged

"Well him & my uncle tore that engine down
 I still remember that rumblin' sound"   Steve Earle
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 06:58 PM »

Do you see that dark mark on the red leader, I have the same mark on mine, in the same place and also on the blue leader. I am thinking that this is where the line from the bridle should be attached. The only problem is, if you set the line there at that very spot, fly a bit, the larks head knot, slips and wind up against the knot at the end of the red leader. Something is weird in this setup. I am going to call Prism tomorrow and see if I can get an exact explanation of how this is supposed to be set up, because it isn't mentioned at all in the owners manual.
Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
dayhiker
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61


Location: Chilhowie, Virginia

« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 03:22 AM »

I suspect the mark is showing the recommended limit of adjustment in that direction.  It will be interesting to hear what answer you receive.  I too initially had concern about the mark & also had the bridle setting move in stronger winds.  I got the knot to lock better with more force & a bit of beeswax to stiffen the line.  You can roll the knot over but tension will straighten it out after flying a bit.  The Prism Micron has similar issues & for it I finally made that knot into a prusik knot which doubles the amount of line wrapped around the other increasing the hold quite a bit.  You can tie an extra overhand knot in the colored pigtail to make a stop in a specific location if you really want to lock it in a particular position. You could even make new pigtails with multiple knots like top leaders on Revolution B handles.  Hmm, I may do that myself.  I too felt this frustration early on & these thoughts are from my limited experience.
Logged

"Well him & my uncle tore that engine down
 I still remember that rumblin' sound"   Steve Earle
Hadge
Trade Count: (0)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 615


Location: Lincolnshire, UK

« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 05:02 AM »

I'm getting confused now  Huh

Dayhiker: On your picture you have the inhaul line prussic knotted between the middle and top knot?

When I got my 4D it came with the inhaul was larksheaded below the middle knot creating a 'turbo' leg in the bridle - the larkshead rests against the bottom of the middle knot in flight so it can't move. I thought this was the standard Prism setting?

That said, I usually fly mine with the inhaul moved up below the top knot ( the alternative setting) to make the bridle a 3 point as I find it flies better for me.

Generally I only use the 4D in really low - below 3mph - winds as I find the lack of weight limits the tricks it will do.  As soon as the wind gets to 3mph I put the Shadow on as it is much easier to trick.
Logged

Age and cunning will always overcome youth and skill!

In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
etully
Trade Count: (+14)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 117


Location: Mechanicsville, Virginia

« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 07:49 AM »

Do you see that dark mark on the red leader, I have the same mark on mine, in the same place and also on the blue leader. I am thinking that this is where the line from the bridle should be attached. The only problem is, if you set the line there at that very spot, fly a bit, the larks head knot, slips and wind up against the knot at the end of the red leader. Something is weird in this setup. I am going to call Prism tomorrow and see if I can get an exact explanation of how this is supposed to be set up, because it isn't mentioned at all in the owners manual.
That mark means nothing, it is probably a reference mark for the bridle maker.  Hadge is correct, the inhaul should slide freely and be allowed to be stopped by the knot, not by a locking prusik knot, beeswax, glue, etc.  Most kites with a turbo type bridle are set up like this.  Also, i looked at the instruction booklet for the kite and can see a picture which shows the inhaul line where Hadge has shown us, and noticed no mention of ever needing to adjust this line. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 09:57 AM »

I just got off the phone with Prism.  I spoke to the customer service person there and explained the question on where exactly do the bridle lines from the T connector, connect to on the Red and Blue leader lines. As was stated before, there are 3 knots on each of these leader lines. The 1st knot is the one where you connect your kite line to at the end of the leader. The second knot is in the middle of the leader, and the third knot is right next to the adjustment for fore and aft balance of the tow point as illustrated in the owners manual.  The line from the T connectors, which ends in a larks head knot, is fastened "over" the middle knot on the leader. This will keep the larks head knot in one position, and it will not slide around or move as one is flying the 4D. 
Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
Captainbob
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


Location: Atlanta, Georgia

« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 09:59 AM »

Do you see that dark mark on the red leader, I have the same mark on mine, in the same place and also on the blue leader. I am thinking that this is where the line from the bridle should be attached. The only problem is, if you set the line there at that very spot, fly a bit, the larks head knot, slips and wind up against the knot at the end of the red leader. Something is weird in this setup. I am going to call Prism tomorrow and see if I can get an exact explanation of how this is supposed to be set up, because it isn't mentioned at all in the owners manual.
That mark means nothing, it is probably a reference mark for the bridle maker.  Hadge is correct, the inhaul should slide freely and be allowed to be stopped by the knot, not by a locking prusik knot, beeswax, glue, etc.  Most kites with a turbo type bridle are set up like this.  Also, i looked at the instruction booklet for the kite and can see a picture which shows the inhaul line where Hadge has shown us, and noticed no mention of ever needing to adjust this line. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not according to Prism, I just spoke with them on the phone. The lines from the T connector attach over the middle knot on the red an blue leaders so that they cannot slide around.
Logged

AKA Member
Dualies and Revs
Kitebag:
Skyburner Niknak , Freestylist UL,   Premier Widow NG,  Prism Zephyr  4D ,   HQ Symphony 1.8
Revolution SLE,  Revolution B Series mid vent.
etully
Trade Count: (+14)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 117


Location: Mechanicsville, Virginia

« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 10:31 AM »

Do you see that dark mark on the red leader, I have the same mark on mine, in the same place and also on the blue leader. I am thinking that this is where the line from the bridle should be attached. The only problem is, if you set the line there at that very spot, fly a bit, the larks head knot, slips and wind up against the knot at the end of the red leader. Something is weird in this setup. I am going to call Prism tomorrow and see if I can get an exact explanation of how this is supposed to be set up, because it isn't mentioned at all in the owners manual.
That mark means nothing, it is probably a reference mark for the bridle maker.  Hadge is correct, the inhaul should slide freely and be allowed to be stopped by the knot, not by a locking prusik knot, beeswax, glue, etc.  Most kites with a turbo type bridle are set up like this.  Also, i looked at the instruction booklet for the kite and can see a picture which shows the inhaul line where Hadge has shown us, and noticed no mention of ever needing to adjust this line. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not according to Prism, I just spoke with them on the phone. The lines from the T connector attach over the middle knot on the red an blue leaders so that they cannot slide around.
Best of luck with that my friend, and fellow aviator.😀


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
dayhiker
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61


Location: Chilhowie, Virginia

« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 04:36 PM »

All this information is very interesting & has given me much to think about.  I must admit that I have little to no understanding of bridle theory & practice.  I am influenced by other kites I have flown & had thought that the leg should be locked, not sliding.  That shows my limited experience that is amplified by not having flown with others.  One thing I observed recently is that kite bridles, these were Prism Nexus, can have considerable variation for the same kite.  I looked at four extra bridles left from a stack & found they varied as much as a half an inch in different line lengths & knot locations.  That is a quite a bit when you are making adjustments 3/16" at a time.  My most valid conclusion may be the main thing is how the kite is reacting to your style or level of flying.  Angle of attack & rate of turn are the only thing I have successfully adjusted for at this time in my journey.  I have also added & removed weights & have just started to adjust my Rev bridles a bit.  Thanks for the interesting comments all.
Logged

"Well him & my uncle tore that engine down
 I still remember that rumblin' sound"   Steve Earle
etully
Trade Count: (+14)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 117


Location: Mechanicsville, Virginia

« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2014, 06:02 PM »

OK, I have my 4D out and I am noticing something interesting.  The black marks on the tow points (red and blue) are where the inhaul stopper knots are positioned on my kite.  I think maybe your bridle was incorrectly tied.  The knot on my kite is 1 5/8" from the prusik knot and is right on the black marks. 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!