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Author Topic: Really no color  (Read 3983 times)
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DMF
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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2014, 07:17 AM »

Once again well done! Smiley

I look forward to your further testing on both the vented and the UL.  I'm out of spars so I'm going to try to spend more time flying (30 cm of snow for wed so may not happen!) but do want a vented version.

I've been flying my UL a few times I'll have to post some pics.  With the windmeter I'm seeing it fly really well between 3-6MPH After 6 I've found myself starting to adjust the bridle setting.  I'll be interested in hearing your impressions. 
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mr wojtas
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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2014, 02:39 PM »

When i am reading all this, it's really gettng to me...

Need to  start building a monster!!! But first things first, i need to finish my SS vented project. Than i'll start building a moster Cheesy
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stapp59
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« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2014, 04:23 AM »

@DMF,

When you say 3-6 mph for the UL, do you have smooth or choppy winds?  Makes a difference as smooth winds are more efficient and certainly more fun to fly.  My winds are inland and choppy most of the time so I need more efficient kites and/or nicer days Wink

That said I find the UL versions of modern trick kite designs to be more like Light Standards than true ULs.  Comparing the Monster UL with the Exile UL, both weigh the same ~8.5 oz and are similar size; yet in winds where the Exile UL is fully powered up and flying the Monster is barely able to stay in the air.  The Monster UL flies fine when powered up and has a higher range, it just needs more wind than the Exile.  To be fair I have tweaked the Exile for a little more low end goodness.

I'm currently playing with the US, bridle, and standoffs to tweak a little more low end efficiency from the Monster and will then post the results.  It looks like the bridle will stay the same, upper spreader will be 1/4" longer, standoffs will be further apart, equal length, and could be a tad shorter.  Still have to test a few things....

Concerning the frame, I like the Nitro Lites.  Having LEs as stiff as a P200 and light as 3PTs makes for a crisp response in tricks.  However the stiff frame and taut sail is too much stress for 2mm standoffs as they bend and I snapped one off already.  Have replaced with 3mm standoffs.

I've been flying my UL a few times I'll have to post some pics.  With the windmeter I'm seeing it fly really well between 3-6MPH After 6 I've found myself starting to adjust the bridle setting.  I'll be interested in hearing your impressions. 
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Steve in Indiana
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DMF
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« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 03:56 AM »

The winds were really smooth on the days I was out.  That would probably explain the difference. I'm going to weight mine to see where it comes in but I would guess its going to be closer to a Light standard as well. 
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stapp59
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2014, 06:39 PM »

Sunday we had very light winds and spent a couple hours with ZA framed kites chasing wind swirls around the field.  Today the winds were 15+ with sustained gusts in the 20s.  Good vent testing weather.  Learned three things:

- Will likely not use the inner most section of the vent on the Monster proto.
- Confirmed how much I like the Exile vent - so smooth in bumpy winds.
- Have 25+ good reasons why it's a good idea to wrap the end of the LS with spectra and glue on high winds kites, even Nitros.


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Steve in Indiana
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2014, 01:03 PM »

Yeah, a wrap is good. I've used internal/external ferrules on the center T in high winds. If you can find an external tube that fits, it's pretty bullet proof. I've never broken a .2400 solid carbon ferrule, but I've seen it happen, so doubling up not only protects the spar but makes the T really solid. Never tried it with a large diameter tube like a Nitro. Probably unlikely to break one of these big hunks of solid carbon no matter what.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 01:05 PM by Allen Carter » Logged

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stapp59
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« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2014, 05:14 AM »

Agreed external T ferrules are strong.  They'd need to be pretty big for SS tubes and I've never liked the clunky look.

Have split a few 5PT and now Nitro lower spreaders in big winds as shown above.  Somehow seem to know when to take down the ULs; probably because the lighter spreaders bend like a pretzel before splitting at the T.  Roll Eyes  5PTs will normally start to bend some so I should know better.  I was surprised when the Nitro just folded. It is a stiff tube for sure.

I have cracked a .2400 solid ferrule but have not folded one yet.  Thought about using a .2400 ferrule with the Nitros as the P100 sections would naturally strengthen the tube ends.  Would rather have the security of the larger ferrule so will continue to wrap the female end with spectra and glue.

I know some have used heat shrink tubing for this purpose but the typical electrical grade tubing is likely too stretchy to prevent splitting.  The Spectra wrap doesn't look bad if you give it a coat of black modelling enamel.

Any other good ideas out there other than only fly your kites in appropriate winds?   Cheesy

Yeah, a wrap is good. I've used internal/external ferrules on the center T in high winds. If you can find an external tube that fits, it's pretty bullet proof. I've never broken a .2400 solid carbon ferrule, but I've seen it happen, so doubling up not only protects the spar but makes the T really solid. Never tried it with a large diameter tube like a Nitro. Probably unlikely to break one of these big hunks of solid carbon no matter what.
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Steve in Indiana
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stapp59
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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2014, 08:41 PM »

Getting closer to a good vent configuration on the Monster proto.  Black duct tape being used to trim the vent opening during testing.


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Steve in Indiana
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mdilucca
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« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2014, 11:11 AM »

Agreed external T ferrules are strong.  They'd need to be pretty big for SS tubes and I've never liked the clunky look.

Have split a few 5PT and now Nitro lower spreaders in big winds as shown above.  Somehow seem to know when to take down the ULs; probably because the lighter spreaders bend like a pretzel before splitting at the T.  Roll Eyes  5PTs will normally start to bend some so I should know better.  I was surprised when the Nitro just folded. It is a stiff tube for sure.

I have cracked a .2400 solid ferrule but have not folded one yet.  Thought about using a .2400 ferrule with the Nitros as the P100 sections would naturally strengthen the tube ends.  Would rather have the security of the larger ferrule so will continue to wrap the female end with spectra and glue.

I know some have used heat shrink tubing for this purpose but the typical electrical grade tubing is likely too stretchy to prevent splitting.  The Spectra wrap doesn't look bad if you give it a coat of black modelling enamel.

Any other good ideas out there other than only fly your kites in appropriate winds?   Cheesy

Yeah, a wrap is good. I've used internal/external ferrules on the center T in high winds. If you can find an external tube that fits, it's pretty bullet proof. I've never broken a .2400 solid carbon ferrule, but I've seen it happen, so doubling up not only protects the spar but makes the T really solid. Never tried it with a large diameter tube like a Nitro. Probably unlikely to break one of these big hunks of solid carbon no matter what.
Steve, for my next Nitro spreaders setup I was thinking to use the P100 sections on both spreaders the .2400 ferruled male and the female as well, then I will use the super strong T's designed by Lam that have absolutely no bend when compared to the standard T's.  I think that will make the center T connection much more stronger Smiley
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Cheers
Mario

stapp59
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« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2014, 06:44 AM »

For those flying the Monster, how are you doing with them?

I find the Monster to be a capable trick kite. Tricks are easy and repeatable and a good kite to practice your skills.  The design does not have the low wind goodness or flyability of a BMK and it needs a decent wind to fly. A design tradeoff...

Std
The Std flies well right off the board and I've not found any need to adjust it save pulling in the uphaul to help shed sail pressure in higher winds.

Vent
Still playing with the vent and am closing in on a workable config.  When happy with it, I'll retire the proto (angry bird) sail and make a white paneled vented sail to match the set.

UL
While the UL is a full 2 oz lighter than the std and flies well, I'm a bit disappointed in its low wind flyability. To improve the low end, I've done a few things:
- Widened the tunnel by moving the inner SO in 1" and moving the outer SO out 2".  You'll want to shorten the standoffs a little for this.
- The Std trailing edge offset is 3/4", the UL TE offset is flattened to 1/2" by shortening the outer SO an additional 1/4"
- The upper spreader can be up to 1/2" longer.

Not radical changes but they help a little without affecting the tricks much.

An ideal kite for me would be one with the overall sail efficeincy and feel of the Exile with the trick accessibility of the Monster. Ha!

Cheers,
Steve
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Steve in Indiana
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