HQ Shadow & YoYo stoppers (re: HULK SMASH)

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[fidelio]

so i've had a shadow for a while and shortly after i bought it i tried to install the included yoyo stops. one fell off shortly after being installed and of course spent the next 30 mins looking for it. however, once i started flying again i realized the reason it came off was because i'd managed to crush the leading edge. i suppose with manly brute force while i was installing it. (insert "HULK SMASH") 

yesterday after some hiatus given wind conditions, the shadow returned to the skies with great fanfare and enthusiasm.  ok so angels weren't singing "aahhh" but it was great fun, and would have been perfect but for one small thing, no yoyo stoppers.

digging around my kite bag i found the yoyo stops, now emblazoned with day glo paint as to be easily spotted should they fly off in a direction different than the kite.

the problem comes in when i go to install them again. this time being careful not to crush the leading edge i push, and push, and twist, and manipulate, and grrrrr, i can't get them on! at least not without enough pressure which would surely cause some damage to the frail frame.

so my question is, those of you with lasting yoyo stoppers on your HQ Shadow, how did you accomplish this feat?

i'd be very grateful to learn of your wisdom.   

[ko]

when i installed mine they had been previously done by the original owner and i just wiggled them back and forth if it was my kite i would gently spread them a little you can always crimp them again until you get it right painting them was a great idea but i fly on sand so no help there and i didnt want to start carrying a metal detector  so i was about to order spares when i found the skymaster ul so i just stopped using the shadow

[fidelio]

you have metal stoppers? if true they're different, mine are hard plastic.
maybe the original owner of your kite came up with a solution.

[sbrown]

I put the stoppers in a bowl of hot water, let them warm up and quickly slid them on the LE.

[NormP]

[quote i'd be very grateful to learn of your wisdom.   
[/quote]

I can't say that I've had any problems installing them. I start at one end of the yo yo and roll it on rather than trying to install it all at once. Hope that makes sense. Now, when you get your yo yo's installed, let me know how you roll it up as I have BIG problems doing that. Here is a post I saved from the old forum. Near the end of the post Ralph tells where the yo yo's are installed. This makes a good starting point

Reply author: Ralph
Replied on: 06/19/2006 3:01:23 PM
Message:

Hi,

PS. The Yoyo-stopper will fit about 50 cm (measured to the stick) from the nose.

yours,

Ralph

[ko]

yeh sorry wrong kite

[Sketch]

Interesting...
Although my Shadow was one of the first half dozen or so kites that arrived here in the States a few years ago.
After a few months of some pretty intense flying.... I too managed to "loose one of the plastic stoppers. However I got on the phone and contacting HQ.
In a short time I received a two free sets of stoppers in the mail.

Since that time...I haven't lost any of those  Yo-yo stoppers again.
Bottom line:
These stoppers actually are beautifully designed and work amazingly well.
The curved trailing edge of the stoppers install with very little effort if you simply just position the edge of the stopper onto leading edge and just carefully "ROLL" it onto the leading edge.

Since then I have used those HQ stoppers on 3 of my other kites including their little Breeze kites.Naturally it goes without saying that the leading edge rod diameter match the HQ stopper.

Doing roll ups with any light wind kite in my bag (at least for me) especially with my Shadow...is quite a challenge.

 Even the slightest change in my Shadow's Bridle settings...such as flying line weight (my choice 50lb max), and the length of the flying lines themselves seem to effect a light wind kites ability to perform consistant roll ups.
Also equally important is both the weight mass of the kite and the ever present WIND SPEED ITSELF?
 Is it safe to say that most SUL kites are not ROLL UP MONSTERS anyhooo?

Years ago (humm 10years ago)...as a Boeing Phantom Works wind tunnel flutter modelmaker we did extensive tests on "UFO flying objects. One test we over-spent weeks of precious budget $$$ was a wind drag test in which we would cast out out lengths of extremely long and thin dia. multi strand steel, kevlar, and even spectra lines off the trailing edge of the vertical fins of  a high flying aircraft.
At then end of these often mile long  lines..were attached small aerodynamic towing electronic sensing devices...that would suddenly for some strange reason would suddenly flutter or fly out of control...and would have to be jettisoned. What a risk both to $$$ bugets and security and danger from falling UFO objects out of the skies.
 (Not to mention the damage to one old Caddy convertible's hood...just NE of Yelm that brought in both the military, and the FBI)

WHAT N' EYE OPENER just how much wind drag from even the smallest dia. lines effected the  flight path of these extremely small and light weight sensing devices that were towed behind flying aircraft.
Equally interesting was the recordings and readings of the "strain-guages" that were positioned along the length of the tow planes vertical fin. The final results were so dramatic, (although still unconclusive) these test were repeated numerous times.

The  perplexed test director and engineering staff concluded the drag caused by the long lengths of these thin tow lines...and NOT the aerodynamics of the tow planes wake or the sensing devices at the end of the tow lines that was responsible for the radical flight path.
Shadow yo-yo stopper conclusion...just order a six pack of HQ STOPPERS.
 SORRY..FOR THE RANT!!!  : It must have been the StarBucks Java-jive hit this morn and  OK! GOOD IDEA...I WILL GO FLY MY SHADOW KITE however it won't be at my beloved CANNON BEACH OREGON!

[fidelio]

thank you all for the replies so far.

at the end of another session with the shadow, i figured i'd take a chance to use a suggestion from this thread. i tried the 'roll' method, starting at the very tip of the stopper and working it onto the leading edge then massaging the rest into place. on both leading edges before the stopper was fully seated, i detected the smallest yet present crunchy noise from the leading edge spar, on both sides.

as this was the end of the session i haven't tried the kite out again, but the spars still felt solid, but once it gets in the air and flexing, well, we'll see if they're broken or not. if they are, i'll be boiling those stoppers after replacing the spars.

norm, and others having trouble getting the kite to roll up; the way i've been doing them is coming out of a backspin or any move where the nose of the kite is towards me, with the front of the kite facing the ground.

i do have a small weight in the tail of my shadow which didn't come with my kite but some of the older production shadows did. chilese was kind enough to loan me the tail weight from his shadow and our great local shop owner had a local machinist make some up, so those of us who bought later production run shadows could have the metal tail weight.

i'll get a measurement of the weight of that piece and come back to post it.

those of us in las vegas at least all have messed with the bridles on our shadows a little bit as well. generally to give the kite a little more forward drive in super light winds.

the thought had crossed my mind to have a rod i could slip inside the spar while i installed the stopper so there would be no cavity while the operation was taking place. the idea being, no cavity, no crushing. what do you think?

[Sketch]

thank you all for the replies so far.
those of us in las vegas at least all have messed with the bridles on our shadows a little bit as well. generally to give the kite a little more forward drive in super light winds.

the thought had crossed my mind to have a rod i could slip inside the spar while i installed the stopper so there would be no cavity while the operation was taking place. the idea being, no cavity, no crushing. what do you think?

Remember when bridling up "for a little more forward drive in light winds" as you already must know, will certainly effect your roll ups.
Again most kites...need enough weight "swing weight kinetic' energy input to even start a roll up...that must start with some kind of foward drive in order to gain enough momentum to perform any kind of trick, treat or defeat?

All this talk about your "crushed spars" also make me wonder just what brand or type of rods that came with your Shadow?  (As you know..especially when it comes to pultrude rods, quality and flex are only as "good as the mfg. last batch of lay ups?
I have over the past years...replaced a couple of lower leading edges from my over-agressive ground work but never have I needed to replace the upper leading edges...or the lower spreaders?

Yes!
I would try to find some stand off rods..that could be inserted into that location just below the upper spreader which might help reduce the strain from OVER AGRESSIVE yank-n-"POP!" handle movements.

Often when I see kite flyers..(both newbee's and some old seasoned professionals..attempt some of these more interesting radical manouvers...It makes me almost cringe when I think just how much stress and force is being applied to such small dia. light weight and sometimes very expensive multi-wrap tapered rods. 
Many of these new age STIFF small dia. rods are very stiff....and just maybe that too...has a downside? Perhaps....a little extra flex is needed?
That sounds like a GOOD INSURANCE plan...to add a little insert around the heavy pressure points where bridle lines are attached?

Just like in any sport, KITE FLIGHT or what have ya..."you are truly only as good as your LAST GIG!
Bottom line:
Whether the kite is a beautiful one of a kind custom $400.00 SUL or $30.00 beginner kite, its up to the flyer to understand and learn to fly in a style or wind condition that doesn't over stress the kites frame.
A good friend of mine....who during his many years of flying kite events  who now has a kite shop wall full of 1st place awards and his team has won world cup team events.

 In those early days....his car trunk was filled with bunches of cracked, broken and multi repaired kite rods and parts. 

I wish I had a dime for every time that I would see him running toward all of us sitting around the staging area, pawing through our kite bags....looking for a replacement "Easton or old Skyshark" rod for his kite or kites.
Hummm?
I would bet a box of my beloved Skyshark skinnies...that was one of the main reasons...he moved to the beach, and started his own kite shops?
Again...(gotta blame this mornings Starbucks java-jive coffee fix!)
Sorry for the drivil....

[mikenchico]

the thought had crossed my mind to have a rod i could slip inside the spar while i installed the stopper so there would be no cavity while the operation was taking place. the idea being, no cavity, no crushing. what do you think?

That sounds good but you'd have to take the kite completely apart to do that. I think Skitch alluded to it above, you could permanently insert a rod into that area, gluing it would present some problems but somebody here probably has an idea. Re-enforcing the area of the yo yo stops and upper spreader area would be a good thing if the small additional weight didn't have any adverse effect on the balance of the kite.

[PND]

 I just took some fine sandpaper to the sharp edge on the stop. It clicked right on alot better then the first time I put them on..

[NormP]

norm, and others having trouble getting the kite to roll up; the way i've been doing them is coming out of a backspin or any move where the nose of the kite is towards me, with the front of the kite facing the ground.

i do have a small weight in the tail of my shadow which didn't come with my kite but some of the older production shadows did. chilese was kind enough to loan me the tail weight from his shadow and our great local shop owner had a local machinist make some up, so those of us who bought later production run shadows could have the metal tail weight.

i'll get a measurement of the weight of that piece and come back to post it.

those of us in las vegas at least all have messed with the bridles on our shadows a little bit as well. generally to give the kite a little more forward drive in super light winds.

Thanks for the tip for rolling the Shadow up. I'll try it that way. I guess I can also try the two pop provided by Randy G. I have my bridle set light and use different sizes of 'connector nuts' inserted in vinyl tubing for my weights. They look like this:



[attachment deleted by admin]

[tpatter]

Maybe its just my shadow (or my technique), but mine only reliably rolls up with the 2-pop.

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