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Author Topic: struggling with the fade  (Read 837 times)
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Broady
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« on: June 21, 2014, 09:58 AM »

When flying my deep space the tail of the kite just keeps rising up. Do I need a tail weight to keep it locked in?
Or is my technique all wrong?
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 10:53 AM »

A fade is rarely a locked in maneuver. If the wind speed is precisely right for the particular kite and the wind is very stable, then many kites can sit in a fade with very little tending. This is not an every day occurrence with most kites.

Most of the time a fade is like balancing the kite on top of a fence. it will tip back and forth and rise and descend. You control this by line tension. In anything but ideal wind this often means stepping back or forward.

Tail weights rarely make a a kite more stable in a fade. Depends on the kite, but additional weight in the tail is generally there to make the kite less stable and more prone to flip.

There have been a number of threads on how to fade. Use the search and ask more if you don't find enough info.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 10:55 AM by Allen Carter » Logged

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lylenc
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 02:34 PM »

I've had trouble holding my Deep Space in a fade too. I can tend the fade using other kites including all 3 kinds of Gemini, Mantis, Sano, Sea Devil, and many others. I've tried more tail weight, too, without success. Also tried adjusting bridle several ways.

I emailed Benson to see if something needs to be adjusted. The reply was similar to above - more tending. In anything but stable sea breeze it needs more tending than any other kite I have. It was frustrating enough for me that I gave the kite to my son, since he doesn't fly much or do tricks at this time.
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
Allen Carter
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 10:46 PM »

My experience with both a Std and UL DeepSpace wasn't quite so dire. I found it right about in the middle of the spectrum in terms of stability in a fade. Not as tippy as many tricky kites and not as stable as many larger or old school kites. Sort of neutral, in keeping with the all around aspect of the kite. I've always thought the DS one of the best all around freestyle kites.
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2014, 02:12 AM »

Broady,

I agree with Allan.  There are other kites that are far twitchier in the fade.  I actually flew the DS in preference to one of my other kites when learning fade based tricks, because I couldn't hold the other kite in a fade long enough to apply the next input.  The DS is a fantastic kite at the bottom end of it's wind range, but you do need quick reactions as the wind speed increases.  Concentrate on learning stuff in the 5-8 mph range and once you've learnt them, you'll find you'll be able to extend the wind range you can do them in.

Jon
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harveystubbs
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2014, 02:42 AM »

Check that the Velcro tail weight is there and if it is then it should weigh 15 grams. Let us know how you get on   Cool
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JJF6
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2014, 03:30 AM »

Hi,

I have over 40 stunt kites from the beginner to advanced and custom made. In my experience learn the fade and the transition into the fade via the 3 ways, learn how to manage the fade, ounce you are there, make the fade rise and and fall and fly it left to right.

At that point back spins are achievable with rise and fall and flying left and right. Every trick which transitions from that point only gets better in time. The only bugger It took me 6 years to learn this.

Your kite as far as I,ve seen will do it, however the skill level of the flyer takes time. Today I held fade at 2 ft from the ground for over a minute and backspin left and right with a Sano SSZ, It just takes practice and practice and practice. Don,t give up it just takes time.

Cheers
Keith
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Broady
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2014, 08:50 AM »

Harvey, there is no weight on the tail at all.
I have been able to hold the fade for 10 seconds plus where it was fully under control on the kitehouse sin in about 8 or 9 mph.
The wind has been on the slight side and I struggle more with the sin in lower winds
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 11:09 AM »

That's a good comparison. The Sin is a larger kite. Very different from the DS.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
Broady
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 11:39 AM »

I know its a bit larger (214 vs 230 cm), but is that massively different? (Nearly 95% of the size).
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Kareloh
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 11:55 AM »

The Sin has a larger sail area and more loose sail in the nose when in fade. This creates a slight billow in the sail which makes a fade more stable.

If there's no weight in the DS (check the spine) you need to add it. It will improve the fade (deeper) and backspins, and single pop yoyo's should be faster (better pitch rotation).
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jaydub
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Re:
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 12:57 PM »

The weight on the DS is a flat weight covered in Velcro and sits under the Velcro spine tensioner.

If it's not there you, you can buy one off the Benson web site.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
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lylenc
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 04:23 PM »

"Today I held fade at 2 ft from the ground for over a minute and backspin left and right with a Sano SSZ ..."

My SSZ gives away the fade, backspin, and backspin cascades, with very little tending. In fact, it tends to seek stability on its own, with little tending, if the nose is crooked or wings angled coming out of a backspin to a fade.

My Deep Space is at the other end of the spectrum for tending fades, especially in variable inland winds. I've also tried moving the Velcro weight up and down as far as it can be moved without any fade performance improvement.
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
Allen Carter
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 05:17 PM »

It's pretty hard to compare SUL like the SSZ (2PT frame, right?) to a standard weight kite in terms of fade stability. Apples & oranges.

And yes, 214 vs 230 cm in sport kite sail size is huge. Not just in square centimeters of sail area, but in what the kite was designed to do. Smaller kites are generally quicker than larger kites and so that aspect is often part of the kites intended performance. Bigger kites are generally expected to be somewhat more stable overall and often these characteristics are emphasized in the design. OTOH, I've flown 2.4 meter kites that don't like to sit in a fade and 2 meter kites that lock in, but generally speaking a bigger kite will be easier to hold in a fade.

The main point is that stability in a fade, or lack thereof is a design element of a specific kite. Generally speaking, a kite that is easier to rotate in the pitch axis (rollup) is less stable in a fade.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 05:44 PM »

HUGO and BILL have the strongest fade I've ever seen in a kite - they will just hang out there all day and you can float left, right, up, down, etc.

I've always thought of the DS as a 'keep it moving' trick kite, based on videos, but I've only flown one a few times.

Good luck. 
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6 kite tom
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