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Author Topic: Skyburner Freestylist UL Pilots  (Read 3338 times)
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Captainbob
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« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2014, 06:36 AM »

np... nice Freestylist.
Trip......There must be some confusion, as I don't own a Skyburner Freestylist.

I'm like CaptainBob in that I don't trick much in my piloting. I haven't flown either kite. Which do you prefer?
I choose and buy my kites to trick and don't like to recommend which kite for YOU to buy. I will say this: If you're not going to trick, then you don't need a $300.00+ kite to fly ribbon tails or figure eights.  Wink Myself I think you and Capt. Bob should start tricking.  Wink It's not easy, especially on us "old guys", but it will hold your interest a lot longer than pulling tails. I would be more than happy to send you some video links of some the "trick challenges" I offered to Beginners in this forum. Before you purchase either of the kites you mentioned above, be SURE you know what you are going to do with it, even if it's because of the particular wind you encounter where you fly.   


Been interested in aviation and things that fly since I was about 6 years old and used to watch Piper Cubs doing bounces and goes at Flushing Airport. Then got my Private Pilots license and also flew RC aircraft, and Helicopters for years. When I started kiting after the first of this year, I looked at videos of tricks on stunt kite, and couldn't find anything interesting or entertaining about it at all, but that is just my personal preference.

I decided at that point, that like flying a real aircraft, or RC aircraft, I was more into precision flying, or as we say in real aircraft,  "flying by the numbers". Maintaining exact speeds, headings, touchdown points, etc..etc.. is what I love, and flying either a Rev or Dualie, and getting it to fly in precise patterns is what I enjoy trying to do. All the kites I have purchased recently, I bought with this goal in mind. I love the way my Freestylist UL handles, as well as my Widow NG. I also like both my Revs, and try to fly them the same way. Two kites that I never really took to, are my HQ Symphony 1.8, and my Prism 4D, which basically remain in the hangar.
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« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2014, 06:51 AM »

Find yourself a BMK Mamba  Cool It is full sized, flies well, wind efficient and precise. Still flown by teams today. Not that tricky by today's standards but does very nice flat spin moves and solid fades. Awesome at pulling a 100' tail  Smiley

Been interested in aviation and things that fly since I was about 6 years old and used to watch Piper Cubs doing bounces and goes at Flushing Airport. Then got my Private Pilots license and also flew RC aircraft, and Helicopters for years. When I started kiting after the first of this year, I looked at videos of tricks on stunt kite, and couldn't find anything interesting or entertaining about it at all, but that is just my personal preference.

I decided at that point, that like flying a real aircraft, or RC aircraft, I was more into precision flying, or as we say in real aircraft,  "flying by the numbers". Maintaining exact speeds, headings, touchdown points, etc..etc.. is what I love, and flying either a Rev or Dualie, and getting it to fly in precise patterns is what I enjoy trying to do. All the kites I have purchased recently, I bought with this goal in mind. I love the way my Freestylist UL handles, as well as my Widow NG. I also like both my Revs, and try to fly them the same way. Two kites that I never really took to, are my HQ Symphony 1.8, and my Prism 4D, which basically remain in the hangar.
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Trip
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« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2014, 08:29 AM »

I'm like CaptainBob in that I don't trick much in my piloting. I haven't flown either kite. Which do you prefer?

I choose and buy my kites to trick and don't like to recommend which kite for YOU to buy. I will say this: If you're not going to trick, then you don't need a $300.00+ kite to fly ribbon tails or figure eights.  Wink Myself I think you and Capt. Bob should start tricking.  Wink It's not easy, especially on us "old guys", but it will hold your interest a lot longer than pulling tails. I would be more than happy to send you some video links of some the "trick challenges" I offered to Beginners in this forum. Before you purchase either of the kites you mentioned above, be SURE you know what you are going to do with it, even if it's because of the particular wind you encounter where you fly.   

All of us have our reasons for flying the way we do. I've tried both types of flying and feel that "pulling tails" and precision/ballet flying is more my style. I contend that kite flying is a form of individual/personal expression and relaxation.

But, I have to admit, there are times I feel like a second-class citizen on here by a few individuals because I don't focus solely on tricking with a sport kite. Yes, I'm relatively new and have a lot to learn. I realize respect is earned and dues have to be paid sometimes. However, there's no right or wrong to the type of flying style I have chosen. And if I'm considered a second-class citizen, then what does that say for the single-line guys or the quad guys?

I don't see where any one type of kite flying style is better than the other. They all compliment the end goal... personal expression and enjoyment.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 09:13 AM by Trip » Logged

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Allen Carter
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« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2014, 09:08 AM »

You and me, Trip. Second class all the way and loving every minute of it.   Cheesy

There are all kinds of flyers on this forum, but when the conversation is about which kits to buy it naturally tends to gravitate towards kites currently on the market and enthusiastic people who own them.

As most sport kites made these days are designed to do slack line tricks, and because tricks are relatively easy to reference by name, it's easy for even a fairly inexperienced flyer to talk about these (relatively...) clearly defined maneuvers and does a kite do this or that.

The vocabulary for actually flying a kite is more limited. Many of the things that make a kite fly a certain way are hard to pin down, and because a lot of sport kite people spend little time thinking about flying there aren't as many conversations about it on forums. Flight quality is also almost impossible to capture on video, so there's another frame of reference missing.

Many modern kites fly well. Most fly somewhat differently than older kites because of design compromises that enable the amazing array of slack line tricks. I tend to prefer the flight characteristics of some older kites that are rare in newer designs. Hence most of my kites can't do a Yo-Fade or Wap Do Wap or even a backspin, but I don't miss that stuff much. About once a year I'll pull out a modern kite that's been sitting in the garage or buy a new kite to see what it's like. I get bored with most of 'em.

Second class all the way...

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Captainbob
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« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2014, 09:11 AM »

I'm like CaptainBob in that I don't trick much in my piloting. I haven't flown either kite. Which do you prefer?

I choose and buy my kites to trick and don't like to recommend which kite for YOU to buy. I will say this: If you're not going to trick, then you don't need a $300.00+ kite to fly ribbon tails or figure eights.  Wink Myself I think you and Capt. Bob should start tricking.  Wink It's not easy, especially on us "old guys", but it will hold your interest a lot longer than pulling tails. I would be more than happy to send you some video links of some the "trick challenges" I offered to Beginners in this forum. Before you purchase either of the kites you mentioned above, be SURE you know what you are going to do with it, even if it's because of the particular wind you encounter where you fly.   


All of us have our reasons for flying the way we do. I've tried both types of flying and feel that "pulling tails" and precision/ballet flying is more my style. I contend that kite flying is a form of individual/personal expression and relaxation. There's no right or wrong to what type of kite flying you do.

But, I have to admit, there are times I feel like a second-class citizen on here because I don't focus solely on tricking with a sport kite. And if I'm considered a second-class citizen, then what does that say for the single-line guys or the quad guys? I don't see where any one type of kite flying style is better than the other. They all compliment the end goal... personal expression and enjoyment.




I totally agree with you. Some of the videos I have enjoyed the most are of people just flying around, and making it look good and precise. I have watched videos stunt  kites , usually in a stall, , hardly flying, and just being yanked all over the sky, which did nothing for me at all.

Another thing I was made aware of, when I became interested in kiting, were the people that acted like if you didn't buy a gaggle of $300 kites, there was something wrong with your thinking process. Reminded me of the techno weenie cyclists that I knew, that claimed that if you didn't have a $2,000+ carbon fiber framed bike with all Campy equipment, you were not really a "serious cyclist". Meanwhile I was riding 5,000+ miles per year on my $1,000 recumbent bike.  So I don't pay attention to that stuff anymore, I try and do the research, watch videos, read reviews, and see what people suggest, and then I  make my buying decision. So far it has worked pretty well.  The only kites I own that I would now consider "mistakes", were the first two.  


This is one of my favorite videos 
"Romancing the Wind" - Ray Bethell, 3 kites and Lakme
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 09:18 AM by Captainbob » Logged

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Trip
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« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2014, 09:43 AM »

CaptainBob... that video by Ray Bethell is the single reason why I got into sport kiting. I was totally inspired by it when I first saw it earlier this year.

Allen.... It would be an honor to meet and fly with you some day. As second-class citizens, of course.  Cheesy
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Robert "Trip" Hilliard
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Captainbob
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2014, 02:20 PM »

CaptainBob... that video by Ray Bethell is the single reason why I got into sport kiting. I was totally inspired by it when I first saw it earlier this year.

Allen.... It would be an honor to meet and fly with you some day. As second-class citizens, of course.  Cheesy


Here is another cool video. He must have 3 brains.....

Ray Bethell and his 3 kites
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« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2014, 07:58 PM »

The last thing I would consider is what someone else thinks about what I do for enjoyment.  Kite flying is an individual thing and can be enjoyed in so many different ways.

With that said, I also believe that everyone interprets written communications in their own way.  I have had the pleasure of meeting NP and a nicer guy you won't find.  I believe that his intention was not to infer that you had to trick to fly but perhaps you might want to give it a try as you were inquiring about "Tricky" type kites.  Until recently after (12 yrs) of flying I decided to try my hand at tricking so I bought what was (by research on the forum) a good trick kite.  I have been flying and having a blast not doing many tricks.  I am now having as much fun building my trick capabilities.  As mentioned in posts above I enjoy flying many different styles of kites, single line, dual line, quad line and it depends on my mood which I do.  I assure you that by the time I leave the flying field I am totally relaxed.  That is why I fly (RELAXATION).  Maybe I'm a 3rd class citizen Cry

I will also say that I have met the nicest people since I started flying and have made life long friends along the way.  The kiting community is made up of diverse individuals with a common interest (KITES)! However you do it is up to you and I for one enjoy reading and talking to fellow kiters to help open my eyes to aspects of kiting that might interest me.  I actually just started to make a kite from scratch... based on forum posts.

I would be honored to fly with any of you guys! 


Trip or Captbob, if either of you would like to try a Bluemoon Mamba as suggested above I would be willing to loan mine to see what you think..or any of my kites for that matter.  PM me if interested.
Jon
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 08:11 PM by wagsboyz » Logged
Captainbob
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« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2014, 09:59 PM »

I for one, wasn't implying that anyone this forum was being negative about various styles of flying, but I have seen that elsewhere on occasion.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 10:16 PM by Captainbob » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2014, 11:46 PM »

Sorry Captainbob my reply was really for Trip...  No one needs to feel the way he expressed he feels.   

It's all good!  I agree, I've seen things in other forums that keep me from participating in them.  I thoroughly enjoy this forum and have benefited tremendously from its members.  As interactions go, I enjoy reading your posts and think we have alot in common.

We all help each other in some way shape or form..  Or at least we should.

Which was why I offered the kite loan. 

 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 12:01 AM by wagsboyz » Logged
Captainbob
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« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2014, 04:42 AM »

Sorry Captainbob my reply was really for Trip...  No one needs to feel the way he expressed he feels.   

It's all good!  I agree, I've seen things in other forums that keep me from participating in them.  I thoroughly enjoy this forum and have benefited tremendously from its members.  As interactions go, I enjoy reading your posts and think we have alot in common.

We all help each other in some way shape or form..  Or at least we should.

Which was why I offered the kite loan. 

 

I appreciate the offer, maybe at some future time, once I get the kites I already have "under control"   Wink
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« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2014, 05:26 AM »

Just some thoughts ... recently I went back to grass & trees for the first time in about 8 years away from the Asbury Park BEACH in this beautiful new field I recently discovered (New Overpeck Park - see Events Link here at GWTW). As I was flying in this field surrounded by trees except for the north/south sections and the trees being about 1/2 mile away on the west and east borders I did of course experienced wind fluctuations near the ground and occasional wind shifts overall. I recently EXPLODED a SUL when the wind went from 2 mph to 8 mph in about 30s. Really.
I starting thinking about 10 years ago in Liberty State Park when I first met this tribe of flyers why all were flying MINIMALLY 100 foot lines? Obviously if the wind was not PURE SE you had recovery. It also had to do with competiton requirments of both Precision and Ballet. Anyway -  I was flying 50' at Overpeck on my first visit but then went to 60' and was somewhat yearning for 75' to escape some wind shutdowns NEAR THE GROUND - rare - but they HAPPENED.
On grass - you need different tools with trees even at this distance. I also had a stiff neck after my first outing as all the smooth winds were up at a 45* angle generally & higher with bumps along the ground.
My point - in certain areas or if unable to hit a beach or an area with no buildings for miles around maybe PRECISION or NON-TRICK flying is in order. I also started telling myself as I was trying to practice on slot/taz machines at Overpeck that this is going to be VERY DIFFICULT or much harder than the BEACH. Obviously.
Practicing to me is not relaxing ... I do try once in awhile to practice new tricks and do the walk of shame rather than dead launch and screw up my kite ... but depending on your zip code, age, desire and reasons ... trick flying or figure - 8's for an hour ... just MOVE ... enjoy the sport. Personally ... hard core trick flying may not be or POSSIBLE for many flyers ... if Overpeck was ALL I HAD ... it would be PAINFUL ... I guess because I have known and felt pure East winds off the Atlantic Ocean. I will go to Overpeck now only if I see the letters N or S in the forecast and above 5 mph ... of course I am spoiled  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.
Yes - you do also need the right kite to trick ... its expensive and challenging and time consuming. As a Ct. flyer once told me ... after I asked him what's the best kite on the market? His answer ... it all depends on what you want to do ...  Wink Wink Wink.

APJ

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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
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« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2014, 06:24 AM »

Thanks for the post, most all inland fliers can relate I'm sure.

General flying, precision, and tricks are not impossible with inland winds but you have to try harder and be patient.  A well adjusted wind efficient kite can make all the difference and the seemingly impossible is now just difficult  Cheesy

Kite makers who live inland understand this better than most: Ken McNeill, Jon Trennepohl, and Paul Shirey to name a few. On the other hand, those wind efficient inland kites can quickly become overpowered in smooth beach winds.

One kite never fits all with changing wind conditions.  Add in flying style and pilot skill and there is room for *lots* of kites  Tongue

Just some thoughts ... recently I went back to grass & trees for the first time in about 8 years away from the Asbury Park BEACH in this beautiful new field I recently discovered (New Overpeck Park - see Events Link here at GWTW). As I was flying in this field surrounded by trees except for the north/south sections and the trees being about 1/2 mile away on the west and east borders I did of course experienced wind fluctuations near the ground and occasional wind shifts overall. I recently EXPLODED a SUL when the wind went from 2 mph to 8 mph in about 30s. Really.

My point - in certain areas or if unable to hit a beach or an area with no buildings for miles around maybe PRECISION or NON-TRICK flying is in order. I also started telling myself as I was trying to practice on slot/taz machines at Overpeck that this is going to be VERY DIFFICULT or much harder than the BEACH. Obviously.

Yes - you do also need the right kite to trick ... its expensive and challenging and time consuming. As a Ct. flyer once told me ... after I asked him what's the best kite on the market? His answer ... it all depends on what you want to do ...  Wink Wink Wink.

APJ
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Steve in Indiana
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« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2014, 07:02 AM »

I hold no hard feelings against anyone, especially on this board. If I needed some straps, I'd take a look at np first. Maybe I just caught him on a bad day. At any rate, it's all good with me. Kite life is too short. I would be honored to fly with any of you guys anywhere. I hope to be able to shake your hands and meet you someday.

I did take notice and read your suggestion about the BMK Mamba, Stapp59. I'll certainly take a look. Sounds like it would be perfect for the type of winds I get here in eastern Texas. Since it's not made anymore it will probably get more expensive as time goes on. Maybe in another year I can afford one.

Which brings me to Wagsboyz Mamba loan offer. I took a double take on that post. I guess I've never had anyone willing to loan their kite. I'd love to take you up on it. However, winds around here right now are slow to say the least. Can I take a raincheck on that for September or October? I think it's cool you're willing to do that.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:04 AM by Trip » Logged

Robert "Trip" Hilliard
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« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2014, 09:04 AM »

Since it's not made anymore it will probably get more expensive as time goes on.

That sometimes happens with rare kites or kites that have some mystical aura of popularity (Prism Vapor), but a kite like the Mamba was made in relatively large numbers and isn't in high demand. Because they are very good kites and very well made, they haven't plummeted in value like some lesser kites, but they're not likely to become fetish objects like the Vapor and demand ever higher prices.
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