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Author Topic: Show me how well you fly first  (Read 955 times)
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stapp59
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« on: August 09, 2014, 06:20 AM »

How well a kite flies is as important to me (or more so) as its tricking ability.  My ideal kites will do both well and are often labeled "all-rounder" kites.  Some of the newest trickiest flippy monsters seem to fly just well enough to make it from trick combo to trick combo. Well ok, just not my style.

How to measure and describe a kite's flying ability?  Words are not enough.  Best to take it out and fly it around.  Is it wind efficient, smooth, wide window, even paced, good feedback, straight lines, tight spins, crisp corners, nice overall feel?

The acid test for me is to fly figures which readily expose flying qualities (and pilot skills).  Roy Reed has some excellent figure animation on his website at http://reeddesign.co.uk/kites/iskcb/

Sport kites remind me of past years flying model airplanes. We flew control line models on two lines around a hemisphere.  Sound familiar?  Competitions consisted of a set pattern of maneuvers (figures) everyone flew that were scored and totaled.  Check out http://www.pampacl.org/resources/documents/stunt-pattern.html

Yesterday I took oldest daughter down for a day to Ball State in Muncie IN which happens to be the home of AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) headquarters and a really big flying field for hosting national competitions.  Dropped off the daughter and headed out to tour the AMA museum.  Haven't flown the "pattern" in years but seeing the competition fields I decided to have a go.  Winds were a bit brisk in the mid teens so settled on a modded Exile vent with just enough vent open to take the edge off the gusts. Then I pulled out the camera for a little video.

Too bad WMM barfs on high def videos.  A combination and Nero and Handbrake gives some basic editing abilities which is ok for now.

The second video from Second Class Kiting Production.  Be warned this 5 minute video does not contain a single slack line trick.  Unless you consider landing a trick...

Added some music. RIP Israel Kamakawiwo'ole  Sad
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 05:43 PM by stapp59 » Logged

Steve in Indiana
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Captainbob
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 07:22 AM »

Like that kind of flying. I have just started using Windows MM on Windows 7 a couple of weeks ago, and have done about 6 movies in Hi Def, and have had no problem. I wonder if you have the latest version of the program ( Not sure if his program has had updates or multiple versions).
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stapp59
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 07:38 AM »

Details on your setup?

I've got WMM 2012 (from M$ site) on Win7.  Canon SX260, Standard movie, Large size, 1920 quality, created .mov files.

Thanks,
Steve

Like that kind of flying. I have just started using Windows MM on Windows 7 a couple of weeks ago, and have done about 6 movies in Hi Def, and have had no problem. I wonder if you have the latest version of the program ( Not sure if his program has had updates or multiple versions).
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 07:41 AM »

Details on your setup?

I've got WMM 2012 (from M$ site) on Win7.  Canon SX260, Standard movie, Large size, 1920 quality, created .mov files.

Thanks,
Steve

Like that kind of flying. I have just started using Windows MM on Windows 7 a couple of weeks ago, and have done about 6 movies in Hi Def, and have had no problem. I wonder if you have the latest version of the program ( Not sure if his program has had updates or multiple versions).

Well that's the version I got. I am using an Android phone shooting in HD  1920x 1080.. Movies I have made are about 4 minutes long with no problems. I saved mine as Mp4's.  
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 07:56 AM by Captainbob » Logged

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Doug S
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 12:49 PM »

Steve,

Very nice.  Now where are my old AMA score sheets?  Boy does that bring back a lot of good memories.  I really like that old PA pattern.  I still can remember it and the OTS one.  When you fly them thousands of times, there hard to forget.  It's a blast to fly with my old Raptor stunt kites.

The timing of your post is perfect.  The USA boys are at this moment over in Poland completing at the FAI World Championships.

Thank you,

Doug
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 06:01 AM »

Very nice flying Steve! And thanks for the link to ReedDesign. Being sort of new, I didn't know there were flying formations to be judged by. I guess that's how naive I am not being around any kite competition yet. When the wind picks up around here, I'll start practicing those flying formations. As I told Allen Carter in another post... A man can learn a lot from this forum.

One flying formation I see you do a lot is (what I call) the "How low can you go" flight. It's where you fly inches above the ground either direction for the whole stretch of the window and even beyond. I love doing this. It's like a side slide only you're pointing your kite in the direction and trying to see how far you can go in the window. Many times while I'm flying, I'll do the "HLCYG" flying back and forth and land in the process. One thing I've found is when you are flying just above the ground and your kite is out of the window, it takes some instinct to know when to turn and change directions before you stall.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 06:05 AM by Trip » Logged

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stapp59
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 09:53 AM »

Lot's of great kiting resources on the net.  Attempts have been made to list them but not always easy to find.  Figures and competitions were all the rage back in the day - so I'm told.  Not so much anymore.

The AMA PA pattern calls for level flight and the bottom of maneuvers to be 4-6' ~ shoulder height.  There is one level lap between maneuvers to allow time for scoring.  To dive a 3 lb model airplane that took hundreds of hours to build and finish straight at the ground at 60mph and turn a few feet before pavement impact takes calm nerves.  Balsa wood structures tend to smash apart in that type of impact. Ouch!  Kites fair much better Smiley

Very nice flying Steve! And thanks for the link to ReedDesign. Being sort of new, I didn't know there were flying formations to be judged by. I guess that's how naive I am not being around any kite competition yet. When the wind picks up around here, I'll start practicing those flying formations. As I told Allen Carter in another post... A man can learn a lot from this forum.

One flying formation I see you do a lot is (what I call) the "How low can you go" flight. It's where you fly inches above the ground either direction for the whole stretch of the window and even beyond. I love doing this. It's like a side slide only you're pointing your kite in the direction and trying to see how far you can go in the window. Many times while I'm flying, I'll do the "HLCYG" flying back and forth and land in the process. One thing I've found is when you are flying just above the ground and your kite is out of the window, it takes some instinct to know when to turn and change directions before you stall.


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Steve in Indiana
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 11:38 AM »

Very nice flying Steve! And thanks for the link to ReedDesign. Being sort of new, I didn't know there were flying formations to be judged by. I guess that's how naive I am not being around any kite competition yet. When the wind picks up around here, I'll start practicing those flying formations.




If you enjoy flying patterns then you might find this worth a read - Sport kite magic by Dave Gomberg It's rather old now but very informative ( and it's a free download!).
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 11:45 AM »


I learned how to fly CLPA in my forties (Ringmaster), at a park off the freeway in Rewood city ca, dedicated to CLPA. Ted Flancher used to practice there.  A friend of mine was teaching his son to fly control line and a gust of wind sent the plane straight toward his son who dropped the handle and ran. The plane still running went up in a perfect spiral with line and handle attached several hundred feet slowly drifting over 101 freeway to be lost forever Smiley it was a new plane btw....
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stapp59
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2014, 04:12 AM »

Hmm.  On the other side of 101 in Redwood city is the SF bay. Opps.  At least the plane missed hitting anyone.  Have heard of several CL models getting loose and continuing to fly balance by the lines and handle.  Reportedly a combat plane got loose at a competition and wrapped it's lines (.015 steel cable) around some power lines causing a surge and blowing a transformer.  Yikes.  Not good advertising for modeling.

Met Ted Fancher in '93 at the Vincennes nationals.  A nationally ranked flyer and a fine gentleman he had an 'impact moment' during a practice flight when his engine cut out directly overhead and he could not back up fast enough.  Always bring a spare...


I learned how to fly CLPA in my forties (Ringmaster), at a park off the freeway in Rewood city ca, dedicated to CLPA. Ted Flancher used to practice there.  A friend of mine was teaching his son to fly control line and a gust of wind sent the plane straight toward his son who dropped the handle and ran. The plane still running went up in a perfect spiral with line and handle attached several hundred feet slowly drifting over 101 freeway to be lost forever Smiley it was a new plane btw....

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Steve in Indiana
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2014, 06:29 AM »

In the PAMPA Stunt Pattern description "turns of approximately 4.9 feet radius"

 Cheesy

Steve, I'm afraid you need some work. Judging from your video your turns ranged from approximately 4.3 to 5.7 feet...   Cheesy

I remember looking at those patterns as a 10 year old with my little .049 powered planes that I could barely keep in the air and thinking "yeah, right!"

A year or two later I discovered kites and my world of flight got much quieter.  Smiley

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stapp59
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2014, 08:04 AM »

Got me Allen!  Some of the corners are a bit soft. The two early ground pass bobbles and the high bottom of the first triangle are cringe worthy.  Not to mention the missed second intersection of the square eight.  Cry  Cheesy

I almost deleted the video then I realized that pattern looks just like it did twenty years ago when I missed the cut for the top twenty at Vincennes.  Muscle memory is an amazing thing.  Best to learn a skill correctly than have to correct bad habits later.  Judges would point out the errors but seeing them on video has much more impact.  Wish we had inexpensive digital cameras that took HD video back then.  Huh

Those plastic Cox .049 CL models were good for level flight and large inside loops only.  Anything else ended in utter destruction  Shocked  I destroyed my share.  Cheesy

Good fun.   Smiley

In the PAMPA Stunt Pattern description "turns of approximately 4.9 feet radius"

 Cheesy

Steve, I'm afraid you need some work. Judging from your video your turns ranged from approximately 4.3 to 5.7 feet...   Cheesy

I remember looking at those patterns as a 10 year old with my little .049 powered planes that I could barely keep in the air and thinking "yeah, right!"

A year or two later I discovered kites and my world of flight got much quieter.  Smiley


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Steve in Indiana
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2014, 08:17 AM »

In case anyone is interested... I made myself a field card or reference file for the International Sport Kite Compulsories Book off of the Reed Design website so I can print it and refer to it. Of course the Flash animation is not there, but hey, it's better than nothing. Also below is the link to David Gomberg's Sport Kite Magic pdf. Thanks guys for the info.

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/InternationalSportKiteCompulsoriesBook.pdf

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/sportkitemagic.pdf
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 08:19 AM by Trip » Logged

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stapp59
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2014, 08:31 AM »

Thanks for those Trip!  Figures would make for interesting tattoos on the inside of an arm.  Obviously it would signify membership in some cult organization (AKA)  Cheesy

In case anyone is interested... I made myself a field card or reference file for the International Sport Kite Compulsories Book off of the Reed Design website so I can print it and refer to it. Of course the Flash animation is not there, but hey, it's better than nothing. Also below is the link to David Gomberg's Sport Kite Magic pdf. Thanks guys for the info.

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/InternationalSportKiteCompulsoriesBook.pdf

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/sportkitemagic.pdf
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Steve in Indiana
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2014, 09:02 AM »

Thanks for those Trip!  Figures would make for interesting tattoos on the inside of an arm.  Obviously it would signify membership in some cult organization (AKA)  Cheesy

In case anyone is interested... I made myself a field card or reference file for the International Sport Kite Compulsories Book off of the Reed Design website so I can print it and refer to it. Of course the Flash animation is not there, but hey, it's better than nothing. Also below is the link to David Gomberg's Sport Kite Magic pdf. Thanks guys for the info.

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/InternationalSportKiteCompulsoriesBook.pdf

http://www.hilliard.ws/pdf/sportkitemagic.pdf



The LSI pattern would be an interesting tattoo.  Cheesy
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