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Author Topic: Reframing a TOTL Hawaiian Team kite  (Read 3122 times)
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Michel
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« on: June 14, 2009, 06:05 AM »


Hi all,

My Hawaiian is framed with heavy and flexible fiber spars diameter about 8.5 mm.

Is it possible (and is it a good idea) to reframe the kite and how ? Does someone already done ?

- The Upper spreader is 56 cm long and seems to be a bit too short. Is that the right length ?

Thanks in advance for your help.  Wink
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chilese
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 09:56 AM »

Pam Kirk and Mike Dennis make "modern" Hawaiians.

Sky Shark frame, Icarex (not sure), good fittings, rolled seams. It must weigh 5 ounces less than the stock 20 oz kite. I even got an axel to fade out of it. Quite responsive in comparison.


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mikenchico
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 10:27 AM »

Re-frames were common, the factory team actually flew with custom taper wrapped carbon rods by Skyrod but hidden by short sections of Glaspar where visible according to "Red" who made Skyrods since few could afford the $25 per rod. As soon as the AFC pultruded rods became widely available at an affordable price they became very popular, the Avia 2540 is the equivalent.

We've recently re-framed a brand new UL Hawaiian Team Chevron we found in the warehouse of a local kite shop. He had given away the spreaders to somebody and never gotten replacements so it remained hidden away for 15 years.

Anyway I re-framed it with Skyshark P400's, Steve had enough of those camo painted ones in stock & on sale for $2.00. That still saved ounces of weight over the original UL's Glaspar .298's but tripled the stuffiness of the standards K75's. APA connectors work perfectly for the leading edges. I used Avia 1800's or 1880's for the battens and modified the TAPA's for the the "Whiskers" connectors on the battens, I also used the same Avia 1800's for the whisker's (using Glaspar .248's instead of those thin fiberglass rods was a popular mod back in the day) but 4mm carbon rods would be suitably stiff.

Rec's for replacements rods, .2540 pultruded was the most popular replacement, you could go down to .2100's for a light wind kite. You could also go down to Skyshark P200's as a light wind kite, but P300's are ideal and P400's still save tons of weight and are bulletproof. If you want to go all the way to what the teams flew Skyshark 7PT's would fit the bill.

Your primary problem is the center T, there is nothing available today 'off the shelf' that's suitable, I got the last of the old leading edge connectors that Goodwin's carried that were a straight 'T' that flexed. So you'll have to fab something with vinyl or rubber tubing following the originals. I have a large stock of the black "Superthane" tubing that was a popular replacement for the clear. If you can't find something at your local hardware or auto parts that's suitable let me know what size tubes you go with and I'll find you something suitable. Order the tubes from GWTW and let Steve or me know and I'll get something in your shipment you can use.

You won't end up with a "Modern" kite, it's still radically "Old School" but it's an amazing improvement over the original, the added stiffness and increased wind range make it something it never was.



« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 10:45 AM by mikenchico » Logged

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Michel
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 11:45 AM »

Many thanks for your advices and pictures. 
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mikenchico
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 12:09 AM »

I think I kept ours in the Power Kite range with the P400's. They are still stiffer then the K75's used in the Standards while being lighter. I wouldn't give up that pull and noise to achieve a lower wind range, the kite isn't nearly as fun under 7 or 8 mph. We've had ours in 20+ winds to well under 5 mph and I've been pleased with the outcome overall. John C has a pic from Kite Party 6 of it.


I have a bunch of Jon T's original Black Diamond rods, from when he was involved in the design of the Avia G-Force's, I think they are basically sanded G-Force Standards and extremely stiff. I've been thinking of re-framing my standard with them, it's prettier then Rhonda's UL.

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
kitekrazy
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 02:05 PM »

I think I kept ours in the Power Kite range with the P400's. They are still stiffer then the K75's used in the Standards while being lighter. I wouldn't give up that pull and noise to achieve a lower wind range, the kite isn't nearly as fun under 7 or 8 mph. We've had ours in 20+ winds to well under 5 mph and I've been pleased with the outcome overall. John C has a pic from Kite Party 6 of it.

 Now you have sparked my interest. Are the P400's lighter than the standard fiberglass rods? Did you also use those rods that are towards the center of the kite?

 So there would be 11 rods total?

 That is one beautiful kite.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 10:07 PM »

Stock K75's 27.6 grams with .313 deflection.

Skyshark P400's 18.0 grams with .302 deflection.

Stiffer & lighter, you'll save 106 grams in the main frame plus a significant amount in the ferrell's, nocks and fittings, I used Pultruded .180's for those center battens and stand-offs.

You can probably shave 4 - 5 ounces off the kite while improving it's strength & response. Considering a modern standard sport kite weighs 10 - 11 ounces that is a significant saving.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 10:09 PM by mikenchico » Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
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