Advise on a SUL plan

[Welcome to the GWTW Forum]

Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

[DvMxDv]

Hello all,

I recently decided to start building my own kites for fun.  I am looking for a SUL plan that is trick capable like the HQ Shadow or Benson Inner Space and has a wind range from indoor to ~5mph.

I've downloaded a number of plans including the Abraxas, Thornback, Le Quartz, and Orange.  Are any of these suitable candidates?  I plan on framing the kite in question with P90 ULE and spine and 2PT for LLE and lower spreader.

I have also downloaded the Pseudo II, which I understand is modeled after Herb Weldon's Synchro, but I have no idea of that kites capabilities.

Are there any plans out there that I've missed that are tricky indoor/low wind candidates?

Thanks!

[fidelio]

here's a nice video of the thornback in action.

Newham Thornback

[inewham]

I recently decided to start building my own kites for fun.  I am looking for a SUL plan that is trick capable like the HQ Shadow or Benson Inner Space and has a wind range from indoor to ~5mph.

indoors complicates the question: All the kites you list roughly fall into two camps - older style lower aspect ratio kites with plenty of sail area that do rotational tricks like axels and 540s well (Shadow, Inner Space, Synchro, Pseudo) and higher aspect kites offer pitch tricks like the Abraxis, Quartz and Thornback.

The older style kites will generally be much easier to fly indoors/in almost no wind because the have more sail area and flatter sails, the newer school kites are always likely to harder work (there are some commercial new school kites that work indoors but were talking free plans).

So for indoors my choice would be an older style kite; I keep an SUL Acara in my bag for when my UL's won't fly (plan on my site along with the Thornback but its not much fun for pitch tricks)

Certainly while the Thornback can fly, with care, in light wind maybe 3~5mph, its not designed for no wind (it works in light wind because it has more sail area, being a kind of halfway between old and new styles).

WRT the framing, if you're going indoors I'd go for skinnies, they're not a stick you want to knock around but they'll survive outdoors in 5mph. Also keep the sail super light - P31 if you can find it, .75oz ripstop LE tunnel, dacron nose, minimal re-inforcing and set the bridle a little heavier than you would for outdoors in almost no wind to give you something to tug against.

How much time will it spend indoors? IMO there's a big difference between something that is fun indoors and something I'd use outdoors in a gnats-breath on a summer evening, and 3~5mph is UL country - build two kites

[DvMxDv]

Fidelio and Ian,

Thanks for the replys.

I won't be spending any time actually indoors, but the wind conditions in some of the places I have available to fly may as well be indoors.  I'm looking for a design that can fly on short lines when my UL won't get off the ground without sprinting (0 - ~2 mph) and still be able to fly when a 5mph puff comes along.

I was watching a video of the Shadow and it seemed like a low wind version of the Thornback (i.e. flat rotational tricks, able to roll up, etc.).  I'd like a 0 wind design that can do the same.

I guess I'll look at maybe narrowing the nose angle of a Thornback or Orange to reduce sail depth and then frame it lightly, PC31 sail, RSN tunnel, mooney tape for reinforcement, etc.

Thoughts or other options?

Thanks!

Dave

[inewham]

A Thornback will fly in light winds without narrowing the nose; its already relatively flat and the sail has a lower trailing edge which gives it a bit more sail area; 25% height compared to 30% on most other kites. It really seems to help - the DS and Exile are 25% too and similarly they perform very well in low winds. I fly my Std with weights still on in very light winds.
Build it lighter and lose some of the weight on the tail and it should be fine. The thing you're likely to lose as you go light is 1 pop roll-ups from a backspin - you just need to 2 pop them instead.
The Orange has a deep sail so that would be a good candidate too but I don't know if it will roll up but then even something old school (like the Acara SUL I mentioned) will often do two pop roll ups, just get accustomed to popping it on its back and hitting the second pop smoothly enough that people dont notice