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Author Topic: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please  (Read 5286 times)
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facesnorth
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« on: July 06, 2009, 02:09 PM »

Hey guys, I just bought a Silver Fox 2.5 standard (my first kite).  These may seem like basic questions but if anybody could help me I'd appreciate it. 

First a couple of questions regarding the tensioning system.  It was sent it in the mail untensioned, with the leading edge spars separated so that it could be compacted more.  I put the 2 leading edge spars together, but the tensioning system has me a little baffled.

1 - There is the thin white string with a loop on the end, which then goes all the way through the trailing edge down to the tail of the kite, and comes out and ties to a thick black stretchy cord which is tied around the spine about 9 inches up from the tail.  Do I just take the loop and put it around the notch in the end of the spar?  But it's not very tense. 

2 - Then the thicker black tensioning string has a knot that won't reach the notch no matter how hard I pull, and then there it has a lot of slack leftover with a small knot at the end.  Not really sure at all what to do in order to tension it properly.  Then there is a cap for the end.

Also, a loose brass weight came in the bag, as well as a small heavy black piece, which seems like some other kind of weight.  It's wide and cylindrical shaped, but the ends are capped off, and it has a hole in the middle of the cylinder.  I noticed down by the tail where the velcro was flapped over, there was another little brass weight in there, so I unflapped the velcro to take a look at it, and it fell out, and some other little black plastic piece fell out, and what appeared to be a small spar inside of the spine seemed to suck up inside the spine and I can't get it to come out.  Now the spine seems a lot shorter than it should be and I can't figure out how to lengthen it.

The bridle is very long, and there are red and blue beads all over.  It seems one option would be to just larks head to the end of the long strings, but the guy that sold it to me said it's an adjustable bridle system and to try and get some help figuring out how to make the adjustments.

Thanks!!
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Steve
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 02:23 PM »

Perhaps this will help:
http://www.gwtwforum.com/pdf/sf25instructions.pdf
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facesnorth
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 07:41 PM »

Thank you, I'm going to see now if I can figure out all my answers from that sheet and if I still have any questions I'll write back.
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facesnorth
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 08:57 PM »

I didn't get a pamphlet.  You have something more than the PDF that was posted above?  If so, I would love to see it, I will PM my address if you don't mind sending it or a copy (or if you want to scan and email it I will send my email addy).

The PDF helped me to understand the bridling system.

Also I think I can tension it properly.  Basically I just stick the thin white thread over the nock, then I pull the loop of the thicker dark grey one over the nock, and then pull the loose string from the same dark grey line over the nock again, pull tight, and then put the rubber end cap over it.  What is the proper amount of tension to put on it?  How can I tell what is "just right"?

The main question now that I have relates to what I mentioned about the tail weight falling off when I opened the velcro.  I got the piece to slide back out that I had mentioned seemed to slide into the spine.  Basically it's a small thin piece of spar.  Apparently it fits inside of the Dynamic spars.  It seems there used to be glue on it holding it in place, but that's dried up, now there is nothing to make it stay put.  It will just slide all the way up the spine.  Without it, the spine is way too short.  With this piece glued in there, it gives a thinner diameter to the spine so the balast weights and tail weight can be added on.  There is also a small piece of thin black plastic which can surround this piece, but I'm not sure what it would be used for.

There is a similar, thin small spar that was sticking out of one of the Dynamic lower spreader spars.  It also was very loose with the glue dried up, and it fell out easily.  It apparently is what is supposed to slide in through the center T connector and then the lower spreaders attach on to this loose spar.  Seems kinda wonky.  Like it could slide into one of the spars, and then the whole thing falls apart.  I'm especially wary about the one in the spine.  I have no idea how I'm going to keep that thing in place.  Seems like a poor design.

Should I just glue it into the spine?  How do I know the correct length that the spine should be with this thing attached to it?  I would be inclined to write Flying Wings what I should do but they haven't answered an email I wrote them from a couple weeks ago.  Does anybody have experience dealing with these pieces on this kite?

Thanks.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 09:09 PM »

Yeah you'll need to glue those in, gap filling super glue or epoxy, I've heard some people have used fingernail polish with success too.

Hopefully Steve (sbrown) will come in here and help with how much to leave out on the spine, he's got the full set of Silver Foxes and really likes them. PM him if you want, I'm sure he'd be happy to help you.

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sbrown
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 09:47 PM »

CA glue failures happen to the best of 'em, even 'boutique' kites.

Fortunately, it's an easy fix. I use gap filling CA glue, like Zap A Gap. Make sure that you get the slower acting glues and not the instant bonding version.

The bottom spreader ferrule (the thinner carbon rod that fits inside the bottom spreader) needs to have ~3" sticking out of one of the spreaders.

The spine extension needs about 2 3/8" exposed from the end of the spine.
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facesnorth
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 10:32 PM »

Thanks guys.  Zap a Gap CA+ Green appears to be available on Amazon in .5, 1, 2 and 4 oz sizes.  The 2 oz bottle seems to be good bang for the buck.  It says 20 seconds cure time, is that the slow one you are talking about?  edit: the 4 oz bottle says it cures in 30-45 seconds, but it looks like the same stuff, I'm not sure why it would be different.

I may as well pull out the leading edge spars and re-glue everything since it's likely the glue has dried up on all of them.  Thanks for the idea on that.  edit: Problem is, I don't know how to get the leading edge spars out, because I can't see how to remove the leading edge connectors.  I can see how I would remove the yo-yo stoppers, but it would require me cutting and replacing the plastic pull-tight thingy holding it in place.

So should I use sandpaper on the thin spars to get all the dried glue off before I put the Zap a Gap on?  Is that the only preparation necessary?  Do I run the glue thinly up and around the entire length of the small spar before putting it in?  Or just a few small amounts?

Not sure what you mean by checking the stopper at the center T to make sure it is holding, Norm.

Also thanks for the measurements I needed, Steve.  As soon as I get this glue I'll be ready to fly this puppy.

Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?  I don't see the point.  Is it to put some separation between the ballast weights, or a ballast weight and the tail weight?  Or maybe it should also be glued on, at a point where all 3 of the weights could fit on?  So the weights don't slide up and down so much?  Only if 1 ballast was on by itself, or 1 ballast with the tail weight would the ballast slide up and down slightly in that case.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 10:47 PM by facesnorth » Logged
sbrown
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 11:02 PM »

Quote
Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?
It's a movable stopper for the weights. Just slide it snug to the edge of the brass weights and move it up or down for more or less weights.

CA glue has a shelf life, that's why glue failures are so common. After being open a while it doesn't bond properly. Even though it doesn't seem cost effective, I now buy the smaller bottles, as the large bottles go 'bad' long before I use it all up.

When I helped out at a kite workshop, we prepped the spars by wiping the insides with a test tube brush, to clean out dust and the release compounds left inside. The spars were then set aside for a while and then each glue joint was tested by tapping the end with a plastic mallet to make sure it had set properly.

Most hardware stores/hardware departments of big box stores carry gap filling CA glue.
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facesnorth
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 11:59 PM »

Quote
Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?
It's a movable stopper for the weights. Just slide it snug to the edge of the brass weights and move it up or down for more or less weights.

That's what I was thinking, but it's not at all snug on the small spar piece.  It's very loose.  And glueing it wouldn't allow me to move it up or down snugly against the weights.  Is there any way to correct this or suggestion on something alternative to use?

Quote
Most hardware stores/hardware departments of big box stores carry gap filling CA glue.

I was thinking of buying the .5 bottle for the reason you mentioned.  Perhaps I will just check some shops tomorrow and see if I can pick one up this way I don't have to wait for shipping to fly this puppy.
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sbrown
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2009, 12:41 AM »

You could use an O ring or slice of vinyl tubing of a diameter small enough for a snug fit.
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facesnorth
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2009, 10:58 AM »

OK, yes there is a stopper and it is glued on very well.

How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?
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chilese
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 12:03 PM »

Store your epoxy in the freezer. Do not just keep it in the kitebag. It will last 10 times as long YMMV.
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sbrown
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 12:32 PM »

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How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?

Only do one side of the kite at a time, so you have a reference to put it back together correctly!

I usually first try prying under the edge of the upper C clip with my thumbnail and if I break my thumbnail, I go for a thin screwdriver. Gently work it under the edge of the clip, working from both ends. It should pop off, especially if the glue on all the kite has failed like it did on the ferrules.

Once the upper C clip is off, slide the spreader fitting upwards to the top of the leading edge cut-out and pull from the end of the spar. You may need to move the connector fitting up and couple of times and feed the bridle into the leading edge tunnel until the lower leading edge spar is clear.

Next do the same thing with the upper leading edge spar (except you don't need to remove the C clip) until the end is visible in the lower cut-out.

Is this kite new or used?
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2009, 03:59 PM »

Quote
How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?

Only do one side of the kite at a time, so you have a reference to put it back together correctly!

I usually first try prying under the edge of the upper C clip with my thumbnail and if I break my thumbnail, I go for a thin screwdriver. Gently work it under the edge of the clip, working from both ends. It should pop off, especially if the glue on all the kite has failed like it did on the ferrules.

Once the upper C clip is off, slide the spreader fitting upwards to the top of the leading edge cut-out and pull from the end of the spar. You may need to move the connector fitting up and couple of times and feed the bridle into the leading edge tunnel until the lower leading edge spar is clear.

Next do the same thing with the upper leading edge spar (except you don't need to remove the C clip) until the end is visible in the lower cut-out.

Is this kite new or used?


I use the above method but use a little acetone under the C-clip.
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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2009, 04:44 PM »

if you use acetone, try not to get it on your skin or breath it too much, it's nasty stuff.

cyanoacrylate glue (CA/superglue/krazyglue) is very brittle and doesn't deal with shock well. so what i've done in the past is take a flat blade screwdriver and a hammer and tap on the c-clip lightly and the glue join has broken without too much effort.
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