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Author Topic: All time best kite for precision (money no object)?  (Read 9807 times)
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Sketch
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« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2009, 04:46 PM »

Your Quantum is a good choice all around fun kite. A few years ago...my wife picked up a "returned" Quantum at her workplace and bought it at an employee's sale for $25.00
Instead of replacing the cracked leading edge and broken lower spreader. I took some extra beefed up high wind tapered Skysharks that I bought for my QP's lower spreaders and used them in the used n abused Quantum, replaced the leading edges and ya gotta believe that now my revamped HIGH WIND QUANTUM..was used for last week ends Cannon Beach Sun-Mon-25 to 38mph heavy winds WORKOUT FUNFLY FEST.
What an improvement those Skysharks made in that already wide wind range nice flying Quantum! Grin

(Mt.Flyin'Bob!....that although both our families shared the same beach n' time at Tolavona last weekend.)
HOW DID WE EVER MISS TIE-N' ON A LINE TOGETHER THIS YEAR?Horrific that we didn't share a little wind window together. Would have been a blast to pair up with your Exile and my SilverFox UL...but those bullet winds kinda put a damper on our flyin time this year.

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 05:05 PM by Sketch » Logged
adx1592
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« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2009, 06:45 AM »

Get a mamba. Precision's great.
Muse is good too  Cheesy .
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-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
RonG
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« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2009, 06:55 AM »

Get a mamba. Precision's great.
Until the wind picks up.

A pretty essential quality of a precision kite is speed control, and that's something the Mamba doesn't excel at.  A lot of kite that otherwise track well and turn crisp corners would be disqualified on that count.
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adx1592
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« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2009, 07:01 AM »

Ive never had issues with speed control once with my mamba.
Get a nitro Frame with 200 lb line and your fine.
Plus, Ive always thought you have to work for speed control to well, maintain the same speed.
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-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
stapp59
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« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2009, 08:24 AM »

Get a mamba. Precision's great.
Until the wind picks up.

A pretty essential quality of a precision kite is speed control, and that's something the Mamba doesn't excel at.  A lot of kite that otherwise track well and turn crisp corners would be disqualified on that count.

The Mamba's efficiency in low winds can translate to acceleration as the winds pick up.  Moving the inner standoffs out 1 to 3 inches towards the tips helps moderate the speed as does wind screens, heavy lines and/or some well placed vents.

Steve
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RonG
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« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2009, 09:42 AM »

Ive never had issues with speed control once with my mamba.
Get a nitro Frame with 200 lb line and your fine.
Plus, Ive always thought you have to work for speed control to well, maintain the same speed.

Any kite can be modified with a different frame or a heavier lineset to slow it down.  But those are not innate qualities of the kite, they are things the user has to do to the kite to change its behavior.  If you're looking for "best" precision kite, I argue that they kite should have moderate to slow speed and some measure of speed control right out of the box.  Yes, speed control is first and foremost a skill that a flier needs to develop, but I'd rather have a precision kite that makes my job easier, not harder.

The Mamba's efficiency in low winds can translate to acceleration as the winds pick up.  Moving the inner standoffs out 1 to 3 inches towards the tips helps moderate the speed as does wind screens, heavy lines and/or some well placed vents.

A "tight" sailed kite like the Mamba is very efficient at the low end of its wind range, but as you point out that's a liability as the wind picks up.  It's also a major liability in bumpy winds, since an efficient sail will show the effects of turbulence to a much greater degree.

When you say "well placed vents", are you talking about a user mod, or the vent placement on the stock vented Mamba?

No bashing intended here, Ken makes fantastic kites, but if I'm looking for a kite that facilitates precision flying my experience is that a slow, heavy truck is a better bet than a twitchy sports car.  Again, I'm not talking about flying some straight lines and snapping some corners for fun, I'm talking about a reliable piece of competition equipment.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 09:44 AM by RonG » Logged
inewham
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« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2009, 11:53 AM »

I'm a big BMK fanboy but there is a tangible difference. Last week I flew in winds well into the teens, a vented Mantis, a Nirvana (RTG Bridle), a Mantis and a Machine back to back on 200lb lines. Oh and I can control the speed on a kite.

The Mantis Vent was comfortable as you'd expect. The Mamba was getting very squirrely, needed lots of work and wasn't clean and precise any more. The Nirvana needed some work and was getting a bit edgy but still cutting square corners. The Machine just chugged around like a truck and was a piece of cake to fly precisely.

While you can modify, add brakes, run around etc. a deep, loose sailed kite is just so much easier. 
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« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2009, 12:08 PM »

QPro flys really well in bad, bumpy wind with good speed control.  In fact, those are the winds that I like it best in (compared to other kites).  Some say it flys like a truck, which I guess really helps when you need a solid suspension!  Smiley
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stapp59
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« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2009, 01:48 PM »

The Mamba's efficiency in low winds can translate to acceleration as the winds pick up.  Moving the inner standoffs out 1 to 3 inches towards the tips helps moderate the speed as does wind screens, heavy lines and/or some well placed vents.

A "tight" sailed kite like the Mamba is very efficient at the low end of its wind range, but as you point out that's a liability as the wind picks up.  It's also a major liability in bumpy winds, since an efficient sail will show the effects of turbulence to a much greater degree.

When you say "well placed vents", are you talking about a user mod, or the vent placement on the stock vented Mamba?

No bashing intended here, Ken makes fantastic kites, but if I'm looking for a kite that facilitates precision flying my experience is that a slow, heavy truck is a better bet than a twitchy sports car.  Again, I'm not talking about flying some straight lines and snapping some corners for fun, I'm talking about a reliable piece of competition equipment.

Yep, like all kite designs, the Mamba has its strengths and limitations.  In normal winds the Mamba is quite efficient, a nice Ballet kites with all the hallmarks of good precision, those tight spins and locked in fades.  It has won a number of competitions and many agree the Mamba is very enjoyable to just fly.  I do like Ken's kites  Smiley

I'm inland so light variable winds are the norm and Ken's kites excel in these conditions.  That said, I agree the Mamba overpowers quickly in higher winds.  As we discussed in an earlier thread, I did try untying the leech line.  With that tight sail there was little discernible difference so the leech line was retied.

Have had good success adding three 3x3" variable vents long the outer edge of the tunnel.  Kind of a cross between the stock Mamba vent and the strip vents on the Mantis and your Machine (at least what I can see in pictures of your kites). The vents added less than an ounce and the kite still flies well as a standard with the vents covered.  With the vents open and some SO tweaks the Mamba can fly up to 20 pretty comfortably. Some acceleration is still there but much less.

All things equal, speed control is a bit easier on the Mantis and Exile for that matter.

I understand why you want good speed control in competition.  I picked up a Nirvana last year and recently a Vendetta which are closer in design to your Machine I think.  Once I resurrect the Vendetta from a recent Post Office thrashing (another topic for a different thread) I look forward to some comparison flying between designs.

And the search for the one kite that does everything continues...
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RonG
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« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2009, 01:58 PM »

I understand why you want good speed control in competition.  I picked up a Nirvana last year and recently a Vendetta which are closer in design to your Machine I think.  Once I resurrect the Vendetta from a recent Post Office thrashing (another topic for a different thread) I look forward to some comparison flying between designs.

For precision competition - and any kind of pairs or team flying - speed control is king.  Even though it's ultimately up to the flier to make it happen, you look for equipment that gives you as much of an advantage as possible.  Unfortunately, you don't get a second shot at a blown figure or ballet routine.

The Mamba and its kin (Killer Bee, for instance) are definitely efficient and capable choices for inland flying, as Chicago Fire and the Gordon brothers have consistently demonstrated.

The Nirvana is a bit closer to the Machine in manners, and the Vendetta even more so.  I'd say the Vendetta is a bit more nimble and forgiving, which makes it a great choice as an "all-arounder" kite.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 02:00 PM by RonG » Logged
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