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Author Topic: Help me identify nylon vs polyester  (Read 5612 times)
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matt94gt
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« on: May 11, 2016, 10:23 AM »

Hi all Im trying to figure out if some of the material samples I got are Nylon or Polyester. I thought this would be the perfect place to ask. Not sure if the manufactures are trying to pull a fast one on me.

This is rip-stop nylon I got from Manufacturer #1:


This for sure looks like rip-stop nylon, when I use google images.

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Manufacturer #2 sells a similar product to the above and he says its just polyester (taffeta), and this is what he is claiming is his type of ripstop nylon note the little chunk is from when I attempted to do a burn test to figure it out, but that didn't help me much:


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Here is a photo of them both in black, side by side. Manufacturer #1 on the top/right and Manufacturer #2 on the bottom/left. Both claiming to be nylon.


To me this seems too soft to be nylon? Ideally I'd love it if the 2nd one was nylon as well, as its has a much nicer feel to it.



Thanks so much in advance for any advice,

Matt

« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:25 AM by matt94gt » Logged
thief
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 10:35 AM »

they might be nylon, but the second sample is not ripstop....
ripstop implies that the material has extra threads int eh warp and weft of the weave to help create more secure places that a tear will not be able to go beyond, unless there is dire conditions...

#2 is the best to make bags and tails out of...

and of course Polyester and Nylon are different beasts as well...
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matt94gt
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 10:40 AM »

thief, thanks! Thats what I said, that its not ripstop, as ripstop you can visually see it. But to be honest in the case I am using it, I don't think thats a big deal, I'd rather have a softer feel to it but I still want the abrasion resistantce that nylon has over polyester.

So what would you call this type of nylon (if it is) any ideas?

I have tried tearing the samples by hand even after making a small cut with scissors and I cant (on the coloured swatches).

Im actually not using this for kites, although one day I hope to get into them I just thought this might be the perfect community to ask this question. Im totally cool making a donation to you guys for support if we can nail this down Smiley
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thief
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 10:58 AM »

Well...the issue is that ripstop nylons and polyesters are generally coated for weather and UV defense....that taffeta that you have is generally used as jacket liners (grab that sport coat in your closet and take a peek) and so there is little need for coatings in that use.
that maybe referred to as jacket liner, taffeta liner, coat liner etc....

another things that the reinforcing does is limit stretch....depending on which direction the reinforcing threads are in speaks to limited stretch or movement in that direction...
polyester (we see it advertised as Icarex) usually is good against movement or stretch in any direction...
Ripstop Nylons will stretch over time....and may even change shape with humidity as well...
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matt94gt
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 11:11 AM »

Theif, issue is Im not sure if the top product is Taffeta as the manufacture is calming its ripstop nylon.

I know the top one just soaks up water, then bottom one (Manufacturer #2) beads and repels water very well.
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 11:23 AM »

Where did you find these?
sounds like the first sample is uncoated ripstop..you find this at fabric stores quite often and they suggest using it for outdoor things...

Are you looking at tent making or hammock making??
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matt94gt
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 11:26 AM »

Theif, it will be used for a product similar to a hammock that will actually be on the ground so it has to withstand rubbing on gravel, dirt, etc which is why abrasion is important. But as you will be lying on it, I dont like the crinkly feeling of the ripstop nylon, the other one is much nicer but my main concern is finding out if it is actually nylon as nylon has a higher resistance to abrasion. All others in my competition are using the top style, the ripstop nylon so I wanted something slightly different.

Thanks again for your advice.
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rncembal
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 11:45 AM »

You are leaving out other variables in product. Poly and Nylon are base fibers. The weight of product .75 oz or 1.5 oz in greige goods is another but overall finish is applied after weaving. This effects the stiffness or crinklyness. In kites mostly we use a stiff spinaker finish but some like the softer balloon cloth feel. Finally specific to what your end use is does it have DWR  or water repellent. Your best bet sadly, is not to go trolling for cheapest solution and hope for the best but rather use product established for the end use you desire.
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matt94gt
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 12:15 PM »

You are leaving out other variables in product. Poly and Nylon are base fibers. The weight of product .75 oz or 1.5 oz in greige goods is another but overall finish is applied after weaving. This effects the stiffness or crinklyness. In kites mostly we use a stiff spinaker finish but some like the softer balloon cloth feel. Finally specific to what your end use is does it have DWR  or water repellent. Your best bet sadly, is not to go trolling for cheapest solution and hope for the best but rather use product established for the end use you desire.


Im not going for the cheapest material at all, actually the 2nd sample is quite a bit more expensive then the 1st. Im looking for quality, but also a nice texture and feel that you would be comfortable laying on. These are both 120D, the 2nd one has PU coating on it.
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thief
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 12:53 PM »

you are really looking for a waterproof groundcloth for under the tent or bivy?
I am guessing you are attempting to make a commercial product instead of using Tyvek for your own use?

Chikara is a waterproof ripstop that has a nice hand (soft fabric)....
and you can always add waterproofing to an existing material by using a solution like 303 Fabric Guard...
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rncembal
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 03:30 PM »

What are you trying to make? A ground cloth usually goes under something to protect it.
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matt94gt
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 05:17 PM »

Hey well ill let the cat out of the bag, Im importing a product the same as this:
https://www.laybag.com

Just working with manufactures and getting samples at this point. There are quite a few people selling them, 90% of them are using the 'crinkley' nylon ripstop (like the top photo in my examples from Manufacture #1). Which might be a bit stronger, but its really annoying to lay on, its loud, slippery and does not feel nice on the skin. So thats why I was excited to get the other material as a sample from the 2nd manufacturer I narrowed it down to, its so much nicer but Im questioning if its actually nylon or not.

So every manufacture out there is advertising theirs as rip-stop nylon and all look like the top image.

The reason I am so confused is the fact the manufacture I want to work with (Manufacture #2) sent me these images which they say is their Polyester (Cheaper Version...which looks very similar to Manufacture's #1's rip stop nylon):



Where as this is their 'ripstop' Nylon (Its about 50% more expensive) which I took a photo of (EDIT: They are saying its 'high density nylon now'):


So obviously its not ripstop nylon, which makes me question if its even nylon and if for some reason they are confused which is which.

Again for this product I feel the 'Nylon' from Manufacture #2 would be a much nicer material for this product...but again I dont want to pay for nylon if its indeed polyester.

Hope that makes sense!?  Lips sealed


ps: Thanks so much for helping out...ill be sure to make a donation to the group's paypal.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 11:05 AM by matt94gt » Logged
thief
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 06:05 PM »

In that situation I would suggest the bottom third be the tafetta style material for abrasion resistance and then ripstop on the upper for light weight and packing.... Also be a different look then all of the others out there...

Will you be having the ripstop material be sealed for air resistance or a bladder?
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makatakam
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 07:07 PM »

Poly is lighter and stronger than nylon.
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matt94gt
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 09:19 PM »

From my research nylon has a higher abrasion value.

The issue is I can't have two materials. The way it's made it would be very difficult.

When you say ripstop are we referring to the soft/smooth material or the one with the visible grids? I just found out it's actually High Density nylon. So miscommunication there. I think I'm going to go with that material.

It has a bladder inside of PVC so the outer layer is just to protect the inner bladder.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:43 PM by matt94gt » Logged
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