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Author Topic: Taz Machine ... Old school?  (Read 6197 times)
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Dolphinboy
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« on: March 13, 2009, 09:27 AM »

Is the Taz an old (last generation) type trick? It seems like it to me but I haven't seen it on older videos.
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zippy8
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 12:28 PM »

Hmm.... the trick's been known under that name for 5 years or so. I suspect people where doing it prior to that and just calling it a Double Axel with a funny entry in their ignorance.

Mike.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 01:44 PM »

It's been around, new to me though, so new that I haven't been successful yet. Half Axel, fine, Slot Machine fine, Taz, out of reach. Since they all originate from horizontal flight it seems a logical progression to me but no-joy so far.

I haven't seen it as being a double axel, I'll look at that next time and see if it helps it click, I figure my problem is getting the proper first rotation to a nose away & up position before I hit the second input. Any other input is welcome - Widow Maker, Muse, Exile are my primary tools if there's any suggestions on those particular kites.

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zippy8
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 01:52 PM »

I haven't seen it as being a double axel

Others haveUndecided

It's two Axel-like rotations. It's only different in the initiation and angle of entry from a textbook Double Axel. You could just as easily think of it as a 540 Flat Spin variant, should you so desire.

Mike.
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 02:39 PM »

This trick's been on my mind because I taught myself the Taz but it never looked like the videos so I knew it was wrong. I was doing a Slot Machine hard so it over rotated an extra 180 deg.

I've got it down (correctly) now. 1/2 Axel and let the kite go nose high away and maybe start to rotate a bit more than 90 deg then hit the opposite hand. Add lots of slack and Taz Machine.
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zippy8
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 03:00 PM »

I've got it down (correctly) now. 1/2 Axel and let the kite go nose high away and maybe start to rotate a bit more than 90 deg then hit the opposite hand. Add lots of slack and Taz Machine.

As the original video is still up I recommend comparing what you're getting with what it was supposed to look like. It's not unknown for definitions of tricks to wander a bit over the years. Wink

I'd certainly call the Taz Machine a Half Axel that keeps going rather than a Double Axel, but that is delving into semantics Smiley

Mike.
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 03:33 PM »


As the original video is still up I recommend comparing what you're getting with what it was supposed to look like.

Mike.


That's it. The Nirvana seems to get the nose higher though. It looks cool because the kite continues in its original direction of travel as it rotates around 1.5 times. The old (wrong) way I did them the kites momentum stopped as it rotated the opposite direction. A real Taz is much easier too.
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James -
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 03:54 PM »

The taz really looks a lot like a double axel to me... Watch the double axel vid from the same site... Only difference I can see is the direction of entry and exit.

I've been working on both these tricks a lot lately, and the inputs are almost the same as well. Yeah the taz has some similarities to the half axel, but I think it is much, much more similar to the double axel.

I think of a double axel as a taz started from a vertical half axel and allowed to rotate farther

Or to think of it another way...
half axel = 1/2 * axel
taz = half axel with another rotation, or 2 * half axle
we can deduce that 2 * half axel = axel

therefore
taz = axel  Undecided
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JimB
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 11:51 PM »

I think of it as a 540 variant. But. I'm not quite as sure about that anymore..

I remember it coming up quite a while ago.. someone (Elli?) was wondering what this particular move was.. In my mind I dismissed it as a 540 at the time.

A half axel entry into a nose away axel is nearer the mark.

The initial half axel is only to set up the position for a full nose away axel. It requires a very distinct position and input to get the move to go.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 04:45 PM by JimB » Logged
mikenchico
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 01:55 AM »

OK, I see the half axel start in that one, that's the way I do mine, slack top to stall or just slow the kite then hit the same hand, I've been trying to start the taz with a top pull first like I do on a slot machine to pull the top wing down to a stall with the nose high and just away. That move has never given me enough rotation and the opposite hand pull just tangles me up or flips the kite. I have something new to try Smiley

« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 02:02 AM by mikenchico » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 10:06 AM »

I am with Jim B.

I learned the half axel very first.  Using exactly the same bottom-top 2 pop entry that makes a sweet half axel can lead to the slot machine (), and the taz, depending on which wing after the half axel you want to use to initiate the spin.  When I made the connection between the 540 spin and these spinning tricks, they all clicked at once. 

What I think was the revelation for me was the realization that the arm position for the spin in all three tricks (with respect to the rotation) is nearly identical.

obi
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 09:50 PM »

Anyone trying to learn the Taz remember:

The slot Machine and Taz Machine rotate in opposing directions. The Slot rotates clockwise looking up from the ground and the Taz counter clockwise.

When I first tried to learn the Taz I read that I should use a Slot entry. That's what screwed me up. When I learned correctly I watched a Taz in slow motion video and saw it rotated the other way. Once I got the Slot out of my mind I started hitting the Taz.

In horizontal flight I recommend a Half Axel 1st input and pause until the nose goes high away and slightly past 90 deg rotation then hit what used to be the bottom hand for the final 450 deg rotation finish. Plenty of slack required too.
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2009, 12:39 PM »

The 540, the slot, and taz, are all +/-540 flat spins.

These tricks spin +/-540 degrees intiated by an input given to one wing from a flare.  Each trick is defined by the different 'set-up' used to reach a flare in which one wing is higher and held slightly closer to the flyer.  It is from this position that all three tricks spin.

The slot machine and the taz are 540s initiated from horizontal flight. Both can be done nicely using a set up similar to the half axel. 

Because, in the slot machine, you spin from the same wing used to reach the flare, the trick is easy to accomplish.  This also leads to a spin that is less than 540 full degrees.  Doing a near 540 deg FLAT slot machine is difficult. 

The taz machine can be thought of as the opposite the slot because you spin from the opposite wing.  This requires the kite to go into a full flare plus extra to reach the tilted flare position on the opposite wing.  The difficulty of the entry means a poor taz is no taz.  Good taz machines appear to rotate even more than 540 degrees in an extremely flat manner.

A good 540 resembles a nice taz, and could be seen as taz/slot initiated from a beginner's flare done unevenly. 

obi
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DWayne
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2009, 01:41 PM »

I must be doing slots wrong then because mine only rotate 360 degrees.

Denny
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2009, 02:00 PM »

I refer you to the Gospel of All Ancient Knowledge. 360 is insufficient for a True Slot Machine. Thou shalt rotate 540 and the degrees of rotation shall be 540, neither more nor less.

A look at the page code will reveal to you who is the originator of this trick  Undecided

Mike.
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