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Author Topic: New Flyer, Second Kite  (Read 11858 times)
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Arctic Cat ZRT
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« on: September 18, 2017, 08:43 PM »

Good Evening,

To start off, about 4 years ago I was at the Jersey Shore and decided to buy a Sky Dogs Little Wing Stunt Kite. For the entire week vacation flying that kite was all I wanted to do. I then got home that summer and tried to fly around home and found I couldn't use it due to the low winds. Not researching to see the options./information I gave up.

Fast forward to this past weekend. Again went to the Jersey Shore and took my kite, once again fell into love again. Granted this time I decided to see what to do once I was inland (SEPA-Quakertown, PA area) for a stunt kite. Average wind for the year is about 7-8 MPH, but often is fairly lower it feels, atleast when I want to/can fly. Plus if things get to windy I just fly my current Sky Dogs Kite. So I am looking to a little to no wind Ultra Light (don't mind working the kite to keep it up either, I need the exercise).

Started to look at ultra light stunt kites and found the Prism 4D. Thought I was set on it then I started finding some forums and can't help to see people steering away from them, plus my wind range may be too high anyway. They are considered small and fragile (after having the Little thing, I'd rather try something bigger). I then did some more research and pretty much came to the conclusion that I am looking at either a Silver Fox 2.5 UL or Aerobatx UL if I wanted to stay under 200. I really am interested in the Silver Fox UL but I want to make sure I am not choosing the wrong kite.

Looking for some advice. Also what does come with the Silver Fox 2.5 UL, I don't see anything specific? (i.e. carry bag, lines, etc.) Also if I do go with a bigger kite such as the silver fox what are the line recommendations for the bigger kites? (On the Prism 4D I saw 18', 32', and 50' are the general suggestions).

Thanks for the help!
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Kites Owned: Sky Dogs Little Wing, Skyburner Aura SUL, Prism 4D, Silver Fox 2.5 STD
chilese
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 10:21 PM »

Welcome to the Forum.  Smiley

Question cause questions.

1 What is your price range?

2 What size UL are you looking for?

3 Do you need a line set with the kite?
     Most people buy their lines separately.

4 Do you have other fliers in the area?

There are literally dozens of ULs that are excellent.

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Bob D
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 04:09 AM »

 I've heard good things about the Silver Fox. A UL will fly in lower wind but you'll still have to feel it at the back of your neck. The frame is not as fragile as the 4D but you'll still have to be a little more careful with it than with a standard. Be extra careful learning to do tricks (especially learning to cartwheel in order to put your kite back in the launch position). Another advantage of the Silver Fox is that it's bigger than the 4D (I think it's a full size 7' kite) which means it's not as twitchy as a the smaller kites and easier to control.

I'm not sure what kind of line set you got with your kite. If you don't already have a good line set, you should get one that's somewhere between 75' and 100' if you have the room to fly with longer lines like that. I like a longer line set in low wind because I'm able to get the kite higher in the wind window  before the kite starts to lose its ability to stay up.

There ARE lots of good ULs. They're not necessarily the answer to low wind but they WILL help extend the low end range of your flying.
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Bob D.
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 04:09 AM »

Get one of these, save yourself all of the hassle I went through with the 4d and Silver Fox.  BTW the FW 2.5 UL is a true dog.

[url]http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Burner-NikNak-Advanced__SB004.aspx/[url].  The Nik Nak is truly a gem.
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Arctic Cat ZRT
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 06:05 AM »

Welcome to the Forum.  Smiley

Question cause questions.

1 What is your price range?

2 What size UL are you looking for?

3 Do you need a line set with the kite?
     Most people buy their lines separately.

4 Do you have other fliers in the area?

There are literally dozens of ULs that are excellent.



1. Right now I'd like to stay under 200 but my absolute max is 250.

2. I'd like to try a bigger kite as my first one is a small one only at 60".

3. I only have my original line set that came with my first kite, which are 55lb, 65' lines.

4. Not that I know of, looking to supplement my other hobby for times I can't run my RC Trucks/Cars. Mostly doing it for myself and to promote some additional exercise.

I've heard good things about the Silver Fox. A UL will fly in lower wind but you'll still have to feel it at the back of your neck. The frame is not as fragile as the 4D but you'll still have to be a little more careful with it than with a standard. Be extra careful learning to do tricks (especially learning to cartwheel in order to put your kite back in the launch position). Another advantage of the Silver Fox is that it's bigger than the 4D (I think it's a full size 7' kite) which means it's not as twitchy as a the smaller kites and easier to control.

I'm not sure what kind of line set you got with your kite. If you don't already have a good line set, you should get one that's somewhere between 75' and 100' if you have the room to fly with longer lines like that. I like a longer line set in low wind because I'm able to get the kite higher in the wind window  before the kite starts to lose its ability to stay up.

There ARE lots of good ULs. They're not necessarily the answer to low wind but they WILL help extend the low end range of your flying.


The whole twitchy thing is what I am worried about with the 4D, coupled with the how fragile people say it is, worries me.

Get one of these, save yourself all of the hassle I went through with the 4d and Silver Fox.  BTW the FW 2.5 UL is a true dog.

[url]http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Burner-NikNak-Advanced__SB004.aspx/[url].  The Nik Nak is truly a gem.



I am assuming that you saying the FW 2.5UL is a dog means it is slow?

Seems that the NikNak is out of stock, Sky Burner's SKY BURNER, P.D.S.U.L. - ADVANCED looks interesting as well, but again back-ordered.

 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:09 AM by Arctic Cat ZRT » Logged

Kites Owned: Sky Dogs Little Wing, Skyburner Aura SUL, Prism 4D, Silver Fox 2.5 STD
tcope
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 06:29 AM »

Have you considered a used kite? I've bought a ton and the people here tend to keep them in near new condition.

I've bought several Silver Fox kites here, including the Pro and UL and all were right around $120.

Small kites have their place but I would agree, something the size of the 4D is going to be twitch/fast. Some people like this and it will fly in very light winds. I get the feeling you are looking for low wind but still smooth and slower flight.

I like the Silver Fox line. The UL is a great kite and has not problems down to around 4mph. It's just a _tad_ heavy but it's a UL, not a Super Ultra Light. SUL kites have a wind range around 0-4, I'd say UL's go from 4-7. You are getting into specialty wind ranges with SUL and UL so those ranges are limited. My Silver Fox UL and Pro are kind of my go to kites right now. Are there better UL kites? Certainly... but they do tend to be a little more money. I think the SL line is a good bank for your buck. I will say that SL kites are going to fly a little different than many kites. They have a little bit more oversteer (not a bad thing, just different) so they are a little more "tricky". Many kites are like this and they lend to more tricks. But with 20-30 minutes of learning the feel of the kite and you learn this style of flying it back to normal turns. The Silver Fox UL is well made and can survive a lot of crashes without any issues.

55lbs line would work in the lower winds just fine. I'd say something like 65lbs would cover all wind ranges you want to fly in. So I don't think you would need to run out and buy line right away and could just use the 55lbs. At 7mph winds you are getting close though.

From what I recall, this was about 4mph wind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjcvAeeCSvM&t=22s


« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:32 AM by tcope » Logged

Todd Copeland
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Arctic Cat ZRT
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 07:12 AM »

Have you considered a used kite? I've bought a ton and the people here tend to keep them in near new condition.

... I get the feeling you are looking for low wind but still smooth and slower flight...



Haven't really considered a used kite, granted after your post I did take a peak at the swap meet section.

You pretty much put it perfectly, looking for low/no wind but smooth and slower flight. I saw that the SilverFox 2.5UL has a wind range from 1-12, this is the wind range I am actually looking for. Sounds like though that the in practice wind range starts a bit higher than 1MPH, saw a review that said it really is around 2mph. But again that is a walking pace.
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Kites Owned: Sky Dogs Little Wing, Skyburner Aura SUL, Prism 4D, Silver Fox 2.5 STD
tcope
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 07:41 AM »

You pretty much put it perfectly, looking for low/no wind but smooth and slower flight. I saw that the SilverFox 2.5UL has a wind range from 1-12, this is the wind range I am actually looking for. Sounds like though that the in practice wind range starts a bit higher than 1MPH, saw a review that said it really is around 2mph. But again that is a walking pace.
It's a lower wind kite, but it's not 1-2mph. I really think the 4mph is realistic for the SF UL. Someone might be able to fly at 3mph but that wind would need to be steady and it would require experience and some work. But to be honest, if you are looking at 1-3mph, you are _really_ getting limited. If a kite will fly in 1mph, you probably don't want to fly it in 4mph. If a person has a 1-2mph kite, a 2-4mph and up.... he/she has got about 20 kites in a bag somewhere. Yeah, it just happens.

Some times you can approach things a little different. If you are looking for a low wind kite at a low price, don't limit yourself to one kite.. look around for a good deal on any good low wind kite. That is why the Swap Meet is pretty good or you can even post a message that you are looking for a good low wind kite and see if anyone has one they might be willing to sell before it's posted. Happens all of the time.

But you can also pick up a new FW UL 2/5 from A Wind of Change for $165. To be honest, that is a pretty good deal. You then also get to pick the color. They have some good prices on other kites as well.
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Todd Copeland
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etully
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 07:48 AM »

Well, go get your silver fox.  Used or new, you will not be happy unless you fly in standard wind.  
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Norm Pulliam
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 08:21 AM »

Artic Cat,

I think with everything that has been said: My question would be: How do you plan to fly whatever kite you buy?
Figures, tails, or are you planning on "trick"/slackline flying? It will make a BIG difference on what you buy. You also stated you had winds 7-8 MPH, so the SF Standard or UL will fly great in that wind providing it is a steady wind.
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tcope
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 08:43 AM »

Well, go get your silver fox.  Used or new, you will not be happy unless you fly in standard wind.  

I looked at the NikNak but have not flown one. It seems to me that the NN is slightly smaller (but still a good size kite), at about 10" less tip to tip. In looking at the materials and reviews I'd certainly say that it is a lower wind kite. Sky Burner (who makes the NN) makes _great, quality_ kites. No dount about that. IMHO, the NN would fly in lower winds and probably good from 2-4mph and perhaps up to 5-6mph. I'm guessing a little but it seems to be made to fly in lighter winds. I can't say anything for how it flies or tricks but I'm betting it flies great and tricks very good.

Everything is a trade off. The SF UL will trick all day at 4-7mph winds. It will probably perform 1/2 as well in 7-10mph. I'd guess that the NN's upper wind is going to be around 5-6mph and stop tricking around that as well.

So I'd say the NN flies in lower wind, is just a slight bit smaller (but still a large kite) and just a bit more delicate. The SL UL is slight larger, probably a little easier to find, heavier (for sure) but perhaps would take a harder hit.

I've flown hundreds of kites and I've learned two things... they all do their own things well and.... when flying John C's Vapor, make sure the handles are in the correct hands.
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Todd Copeland
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 08:44 AM »

providing it is a steady wind.
HUGE factor! HUGE, HUGE, HUGE! Don't care who you are... choppy winds make flying a PAIN, steady winds are heaven!
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Todd Copeland
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Arctic Cat ZRT
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 09:23 AM »

I'm going more for tricks/slackline with this kite.

In terms of the wind that is the difficult part, I don't have steady winds generally, is often quite choppy as you would put it. I was really surprised when I saw 7-8 for an annual average, I'd put it a lot lower. I just looked at my wind finder app and saw for most of the days right now I am looking at winds approximately 2-6MPH and gusts up to 9MPH. I would categorize that as normal for us.

Found the sounds of it, while I really like the silver fox, it just won't be appropriate for what I will be trying to fly in.
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Kites Owned: Sky Dogs Little Wing, Skyburner Aura SUL, Prism 4D, Silver Fox 2.5 STD
Norm Pulliam
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 09:31 AM »

I just looked at Kites and Fun Things webpage. Although the NikNak is listed, I don't think you can buy one unless he has some in stock. The Aura which in my opinion would be the kite for YOU is also listed, but you can't buy one, because I tried.
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 09:38 AM »

Nik Nak won't do for slack line stuff (but it flies very low).  I think most UL made in USA or Europe in the last 10-15 years is good, and a good bargain. Another big advantage is that they are all assembled with universal parts, so fixing them is cinch.  As an example, I just picked up the German made Kitehouse SIN UL listed here a few weeks ago, and it is a phenomenal slack line kite that powers up when the grass starts to move, and the price was very good.  
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