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Author Topic: High Aspect Ratio Sport Kites  (Read 3444 times)
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chilese
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« on: September 05, 2009, 10:21 PM »

Flew the Buena Vista Sonic today in too strong wind. Will try again later. This is a big (almost 9 feet) kite but it is very high aspect ratio.

Can anyone give me any info on this Peter Werba kite?

And what other super high aspect ratio kites are still out there?
Does the Gemini qualify? Box of Tricks maybe?

Clickable Sonic link:
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Beachbum
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 10:57 PM »

The BoT counts, and then you have the Stranger and Psycho.

I dunno about the Gemini though, if it is then I would also throw in the Transfer.
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JimB
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 11:04 PM »

Kites inspired by the Stranger.

More about *not* flying.

Benson BoT
Spirit of Air Kaos (really high aspect)

The Elixir, although a different beast along with the BV Sonic.

Peter Werba did a lot of high aspect stuff, not wholly trick oriented.
 
The Gemini could be considered the design nadir in the class IMO, the twin spine combating some of the instability inherent in a lot of the earlier examples of this sort of kite. Way better kite, btw, than any of them.

They pitch well, given that a lot of the lower aspect kites of the time did not, so; only in relation to what else was available at the time.

They were easy to stall. They flic flakked insanely easily. This was probably the main thing. Big trick back then.

Many of them are extremely limited by modern standards, particularly the ones with trick lines.

But. they do tumbling, axel down-type moves very well, often axel out of a genie pop absolute flat, flat spin nicely: coin tosses are fun too.

Many do not like being on their back very much at all. Many do not hold a fade worth a damn, most do not backspin: different time.

This is the big contribution of Buena Vista and Prism IMO: kites that were designed without trick lines and were comfortable on their backs. This went a long way towards expanding what was possible IMO.

Anyway, there were quite a few of them back in the day.

I'm sure others will come up with some more examples.

I'm flying a Benson Matchbox as my "fun" kite at the moment... again, you really have to cut out a large chunk of the current repertoire, or be willing to settle for a very low success rate on lots of modern stuff with them unless your skills are through the roof, and even then..

I can remember when I could barely do anything with a Matchbox, now it's the reverse. I have to really dumb down my flying. I can have a good time just doing Genie Pop multiple axels or Lathams (insanes), and multiple axel downs (torpilles) all day long so no biggie.

They are more fun to fly if you forget a large chunk of what you think you know and just go with it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 11:34 PM by JimB » Logged
mikenchico
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 12:25 AM »

The Force 10 & Prism Radian were early examples of extremely high aspect ratio kites but with very little sail depth they didn't flic-flac the way later high aspect ratio kites did. IMO modern kites are all based on a moderately high aspect ratio design with a deep sail to regain some of the accuracy, smoothness & speed control that those earlier flat sails lost.

Long Doung's Tiger Speed series kites use a high aspect ratio, battened, shallow sail like those original high aspect kites to achieve blindingly fast speeds. If you watch those video's you'll see the problems exasperated that those shallow high aspect kites suffered until they reached some forward speed.

Going by the definition of high aspect ratio (wingspan > then length) most power kites & controllable foils would be considered high aspect ratio.

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John Welden
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 08:29 AM »

Hold a Gem up to an Elixir, they're almost the same size and shape. My SUL elixir had a Gem bridle on it.
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kitelover
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 09:14 AM »

Not many kites (any?) use a upper spreader/spine fitting. The 1st kite I saw doing flick flacks was a Sonic. Another fine PW kite, which pushed the envelope.
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gwm
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 09:25 AM »

  I have a Skynasaur Slicer that's pretty high aspect. If anyone has one that they can fly, please send me the bridle measurements. With the right bridle this seems like it would be a nice fly.
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bt
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 05:08 PM »

Hey Folks,
Please link to here:   http://good-times.webshots.com/album/551319743CELHZW

Aside from these three, I also picked up a full sized Spookie UL last year.
Anyway I love the way these kites fly.... or to Quote JimB.....more about *not* flying.
I`m not sure of which one`s, but it`s reported some of the first "tricks" as we now know them were done on a Sonic.
They have their own set of "moves" they like, and to quote JimB again... They are more fun to fly if you forget a large chunk of what you think you know and just go with it.... I quite enjoy the "quasi Rev styled" flight sometimes evoked from these kites...especially the spookies.
I`m a 80% of the time quad flyer and also have and fly some lower aspect ratio dualies. It`s hard to explain, but when I fly the high aspect ratio kites I tend to think of them as a quad with 2 lines.....ie the almost center pivot spins (again on the spookies) and most certainly well within wingtip spins on the others: horizontal and vertical slides look and feel more quadish to me with these kites than low aspect ones....again a "feel" thing and a different style of flying.
bt



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zippy8
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 06:09 PM »

a) can we all stick to the correct definition of aspect ratio for this application please. Just because two kites have the same height and wingspan does not mean they have the same AR.

b) the immediate post-Stranger/BoT era


saw lots and lots of very high aspect ratio kites
Rare Air XnTrik

but they became far rarer once that period of "trick" kites passed.
Airdynamics Outsider

If your aim is to create an all-round flying experience then starting out with a higher aspect ratio means that your work is cut out with bridle, drag, etc. It's not that it can't be done but the natural lack of stability doesn't make for a great place to begin.

c) IIRC the Sonic came along at the same time as the Pulse and Vibe when BV was an Invento brand, sometime in '98 but probably at KTAI. I know I've got an announcement of them in an old issue of Kite Passion at home.

d) did you know that BV used to own the domain sportkite.com ? They used to have a very cool sepia-tinted website but all I can drag out of the Wayback Machine is account suspended pages.  Embarrassed

Mike.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 06:24 PM by zippy8 » Logged

Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
bt
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 11:26 PM »

My Sonic has written(printed) on it   Buena Vista Kite Co.  `96 "SONIC" tm SF CA USA .
There`s a link to the kite in my above post...
I do remember the changeover as I was trying to get a BV Feather.....
bt

 [quote   c) IIRC the Sonic came along at the same time as the Pulse and Vibe when BV was an Invento brand, sometime in '98 but probably at KTAI. I know I've got an announcement of them in an old issue of Kite Passion at home.  [/quote]
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indigo_wolf
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 11:32 PM »

OMG....... that's gorgeous, John.    Huh

If you ever get sick of it.....  Wink

ATB,
Sam
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zippy8
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2009, 11:20 AM »

My Sonic has written(printed) on it   Buena Vista Kite Co.  `96 "SONIC" tm SF CA USA .
Ah. So it's a real Buena Vista kite and not a badge-engineered InVento version. You can get the Catalyst and Feather from both sources too. Minor differences, from what I recall.

Mike.
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Michel
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2009, 01:25 PM »

Hi all,

Many Speedkites have a High Aspect Ratio too.

For example the Mustang from Long Duong : 185/56 = 3,30

« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 01:27 PM by Tataouine » Logged
inewham
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 12:02 AM »

I had an Invento Sonic, it didn't stay in the bag long ISTR it was grossly underframed for such a big kite - Avia .2100s. That may have (just) worked in the Midi 98s they were selling a the time but not in an 8ft kite, the Stranger was nicer and more competent for a full 8ft high A/R kite (and the BoT blew the socks off both of them). 
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 12:51 PM »

I always think Eclipse when I think where the high aspect thing was going. It was way ahead of it's time.

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Allen, AKA kitehead
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