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Author Topic: The L'Atelier xt.z and the High Speed Automatic No Input BACKSPINS  (Read 5228 times)
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asburyparkjohn
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« on: September 08, 2009, 04:50 PM »

Was just wondering if someone else has experienced this phenomenon on this kite. Was flying this kite this past weekend down in Asbury Park, NJ. The winds were HIGH around 15-17 mph based on the local forecast. Had this high wind kite (xt.z) with 80' X 150# lines with pure NNE winds. Was working on the Backspin trick. As the kite was faded on the right corner of the window and brought to the central window after the first backspin input the kite CONTINUED in a Backspin rotation INCREASING its rotational speed as it went from right to left. My problem was slowing the kite's rotation down to bale out of the move as it was rotating so quickly at times you absolutely could not tell when the NOSE was away to bale out! Has this happen to anyone else - these automatic backspins with no inputs in high winds with this kite? These high speed Backspins did not make their way past the central mid-window.
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
zippy8
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 05:31 PM »

Plenty of kites will perform a Backspin-like manoeuvre once set in motion and one line kept taut given enough/some wind to keep them moving. It's usually more of a continuous Barrel Roll but sufficiently like what some would call a Backspin in these dark days.

I guess this is what you're talking about  Undecided

Mike.
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chilese
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 05:34 PM »

I see the esteemed are ever correct zippy8 has beaten me to the drum (pun intended).

There are several kites which will do this.
The C21X and Shadow come to mind immediately.
Once the rotation is underway, simply holding tension on the one line will continue the trick. It's much more of a barrel roll than a true backspin, but the backspin trick name has been stolen from its rightful place and taken over by the more modern form. If the nose continues to basically point at the pilot, it should be called a barrel roll.

They are fun to watch, in an eggbeater sort of way.  Smiley
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John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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Winged V
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 06:05 PM »

I always thought I got a line wrapped in a weird spot on the leading edge?

Seems to only happen in stiff winds and the tighter the line the faster the rotation and also seems to happen in the lower 1/4 of the window.I never was able to stop the rotation before it touches ground.
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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 06:22 PM »

The only way I was able to bale out (at times) was moving forward with like a quick three step. You are right Winged V in the lower 1/4 or about 6-8 feet off the ground. Yes - Zippy 8 - an  out of control barrel row was what this was ... I guess with this kite it seems to lock into this manuever - real easy. Looking forward to some lower winds to see how it performs a real backspin. This kite is the real deal on high winds - it was holding fades easy for 10 seconds or so in the corners in 15+ winds with only as few steps forward ... its a special high wind kite in my opinion with great sensitivity to inputs yet built like a tank with minor pulling ... can't really say anything else on the other models from this maker in lower winds ... to me its equal with the SD-Mid-Vent or SD-Vent in terms of overall performance in high winds. Just my opinion. Thanks again JB.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:26 PM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
RonG
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 06:31 PM »

Plenty of kites will perform a Backspin-like manoeuvre once set in motion and one line kept taut given enough/some wind to keep them moving. It's usually more of a continuous Barrel Roll but sufficiently like what some would call a Backspin in these dark days.
Yep.  Quite a few kites will do it.

Good for a grin now and then but that's about it.
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 08:58 PM »

Yeah I've had kites do this in higher wind but I think I always started backspinning and it just kept going.
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JimB
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 09:14 PM »

John,

As others have said, it sounds like you got into a barrel roll and then could not get the tension off the lines due to the high wind. No slack=no exit, unless you can tension both lines with the nose away, but; you found that out. This can really wreck a kite in a hurry if you happen to tension the lines with the nose forward.


Another option would be to yank on the already tensioned line and release to develop some slack and slow the barrel roll that way.


The xt.Z will do a very nice nose down backspin in lower winds than what you had if you start it before the lines get on the leading edges in the fade. And I am picky about backspins.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 09:54 PM by JimB » Logged
711jrp
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 06:01 PM »

You men do know this trick has a name don't you? first one to get it gets a e doughnut.
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 03:56 AM »

It's usually more of a continuous Barrel Roll but sufficiently like what some would call a Backspin in these dark days.

Mike.

I share this general disappointment with the gratuitous use of the term backspin when MOST nowadays are doing sloppy barrel rolls.

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
JimB
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 08:46 AM »

You're not thinking Limey Twist are you?

You men do know this trick has a name don't you? first one to get it gets a e doughnut.
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fworley
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 09:52 AM »

You men do know this trick has a name don't you? first one to get it gets a e doughnut.

"Tit wrap" ?

-Frazer
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711jrp
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 04:01 PM »

Of course it's a limey twist, Jim gets...

sorry Jim I got peckish on the way over.
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Pigs might fly, but only if you bridle them right!!

Pete
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 10:12 PM »

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ko
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 08:46 AM »

gotta love this 1           
Kite Flying Demonstration Kite Tricks with Ventriloquist
« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 08:49 AM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
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