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Author Topic: The L'Atelier xt.z and the High Speed Automatic No Input BACKSPINS  (Read 5008 times)
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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2009, 09:21 AM »

HMMM ... interesting he says the Barrel Roll (Limey Twist) is more difficult than the Backspin. Could be ... was shown a new move today ... will try it. Great video Ko!
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chilese
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2009, 11:20 AM »

I wasted 7 minutes of my life to learn that this guy doesn't know the difference between a barrel roll and a backspin.

I saw 2 similar barrel rolls.

In neither one did the nose ever point away from the pilot.

In a REAL backspin, the kite starts in a fade with its belly up and rotates about a vertical axis with its belly ALWAYS staying up. It's basically a Lazy Susan started with the nose toward the pilot instead of away.

Perhaps there are 2 dummies in the video.

Or, did I miss something? My eyes are getting older and the kite is small in the video. zippy8, where are you?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 11:23 AM by chilese » Logged

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zippy8
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 11:32 PM »

zippy8, where are you?

Not doing this:- "I wasted 7 minutes of my life to learn that this guy doesn't know the difference between a barrel roll and a backspin."

Backspin is thus. Accept precisely no substitutes.

Mike.
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 01:38 AM »

Better not to ask the inventer of the 'jitterbug' style of flying what a backspin is, I guess.

obi
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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 09:59 AM »

Mama -mia and G - wiz whats going on here  Lips sealed. I have found that most tricks can deviate from their original TP definitions. I mis-interpreted the Rolling Susan at a TP once from its written definition - but so did a couple of TP judges based on my scores. Its still not clear in terms of how to do an Excellent RS. The best one I saw it seems the pilot drops in with the nose at 9'0clock flying left to right does a 270* LS flat spin from the K-9 position then rises and snaps out and continues to the right. Beautiful! I currently stall, backflip, 180* LS rotate then rise and snap to the right. Its still not clear ... I am currently advancing to the 270* rotation. You are right Zippy ... these are DARK TIMES.
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 03:01 PM »

Mama -mia and G - wiz whats going on here  Lips sealed. I have found that most tricks can deviate from their original TP definitions. I mis-interpreted the Rolling Susan at a TP once from its written definition - but so did a couple of TP judges based on my scores. Its still not clear in terms of how to do an Excellent RS. The best one I saw it seems the pilot drops in with the nose at 9'0clock flying left to right does a 270* LS flat spin from the K-9 position then rises and snaps out and continues to the right. Beautiful! I currently stall, backflip, 180* LS rotate then rise and snap to the right. Its still not clear ... I am currently advancing to the 270* rotation. You are right Zippy ... these are DARK TIMES.

You are droping it on it's back and pulling the rotation with the same hand?

ie flying left to right pop it on it;s back with the lower wing right hand then pull the rotation with the right hand.Don't forget to give loads of slack with the non poping hand more the better.
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DWayne
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2009, 05:42 PM »

I wasted 7 minutes of my life to learn that this guy doesn't know the difference between a barrel roll and a backspin.

Ditto. 7 minutes and not a single backspin.


Denny
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Jimmer
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2009, 07:04 PM »

I'm still a bit confused as to what a Barrel Roll is...
Here is a Youtube example of the confusion
Tom Green Barrel Roll

Does anyone have a good video as an example?
Thanks
Jim
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DWayne
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2009, 07:23 PM »

KO posted a video on page 1 that has tons of barrel rolls. Of course the guy in the video calls them backspins, but they're barrel rolls.  Wink


Denny
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JimB
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2009, 09:40 PM »

There is a good example of Tim executing a true barrel roll on Trick or Treat somewhere.

I'll see if I can find it.

While we call shallow backspins barrel rolls a true barrel roll, as in the Limey Twist, is a single input trick, ie; the pressure on the initiating line is continuous not intermittent. It is a pretty smooth looking trick when done correctly.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 10:44 PM by JimB » Logged
DWayne
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2009, 10:10 PM »

My understanding is in a backspin the wings, nose, and tail remain horizontal while the kite does a flat spin. Nose starts pointing forward, half way through the trick the nose if pointing away from the flier, and again pointing forward when the trick is finished. In a barrel roll the wings rotate around the spine while the nose remains pointing forward the entire time. And a Limey Twist starts like a barrel roll but pressure is kept on after the initial rotation starts and the kite spins in an ever widening arc.
I'm just learning this stuff so please correct me if my understanding of these tricks is wrong. I'd really like to get it right.


Denny
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JimB
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2009, 10:39 PM »

From Peter's Kite Site:

Barrel roll
Start in a low ground pass. Pop the kite into a Half axel and then pull early (before the nose is fully away from you) on the other hand as if rising up to a Fade. Pulling on one hand causes the kite to start rotating while it's coming up into the Fade. Ideally the Fade should come in so that the back of the kite is mere inches of the ground. The kite continues to rotate, as if turning around the spine and eventually recovers to continue flying in the original direction.
If it happens quickly and smoothly it looks like an impossibly low trick that has no business not crashing into the ground.

Limey Twist
A sequence of one or more Lateral rolls while flying down. Fly the kite up and throw hands forward at 75 % to kill the kite onto it's back. Now give a fast sharp tug on both lines, followed by a little slack, to recover the kite up and pull the nose towards you and down until pointing towards the ground. The back of the kite should be facing you with the lines running down and coming under the leading edge.
At the point when the nose drops down and makes contact with the lines across the leading edge, give a firm and fairly steady pull on one line. The force of the nose traveling down when contacting a now tight line on which pressure is being applied, causes the free wing to continue to travel away from you, inducing the kite to twist laterally and roll around the spine. The kite should continue to fly downwards during the twist and further rolls can be introduced by coaxing the lines alternately in sync with the kites rotation.

_____________________________________

For anyone interested in knowing more about the convoluted history of tricks:

http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/index.html

It's indispensable.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 10:41 PM by JimB » Logged
DWayne
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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2009, 05:47 AM »

That's a lot different than what I got from the tricky wiki or TP descriptions.
Thanks Jim.


Denny
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JimB
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« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2009, 07:46 AM »

You are welcome.

It's a fluid process.

Definitions and names morph over time.

It used to be passed from flier to flier.

It reminds me of that Art Linkletter bit where he would have a line of kids whisper a message from one end to the other.

You never knew what the result would be.

The advent of video has gone a long way towards getting everyone on the same page, but still... Smiley
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ko
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2009, 03:32 PM »

thanx everybody for the info but i am still confused. of course i was born that way so at least i have an excuse in this vid by martin besides the fact that he seems to like to chase his lines...is he doing what you consider a backspin ?? these resemble what i am doing and i really want to start out right on the tricks i am learning. if they are considered a barrel roll then at least i will know?? ps the first vid i posted was intended as what it is a light hearted look at a trick i did not intend to waste anyones 7 min.
Backspin line drop and recover
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 06:33 PM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
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