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Author Topic: Active Bridle For Large Deltas?  (Read 658 times)
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chilese
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« on: November 03, 2018, 03:22 PM »

Has anyone experimented with

OR

is there already a SLK which uses

an active link on the simple triangle bridle?

The result would be a triangle/trapezoid with

the trapezoid being active.
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thief
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 06:27 PM »

Gibian has cascading bridles that self adjust. I have seen dc kites that have split bridles left and right with a single larkshead loop attachment pint.
What would you expect your bridle to do?
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chilese
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 11:30 PM »

Similar effect to the Wardley bridles on Benson kites.

I would expect the Angle of Attack to adjust with variations

in wind speed.

Here is a Wardley linkage I put on a Paradox that

Andy is "inspecting".
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 11:32 PM by chilese » Logged

Oldgoat
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 09:32 AM »

Since the angle of attack (AOA) changes throughout changes in the flight angle I'll assume you mean angle of incidence (AOI) which is more or less fixed by the bridle.  (yes I am aware that some folks consider them the same thing) The only time I've had an experience with the type of bridle you depict on a SLK it was unplanned.  A case of a Prussic knot sliding.  It didn't work out too well as the tow point simply moved way up.  Some kites will perform ok with this kind of forward tow point, that is if they have been designed to do so.  Usually you just lose both lift and stability.  That being said, I've also seen kites where the inexperienced owner had actually inadvertently fixed a ring as you describe. The kite did indeed fly but not very well as the kite simply wanted to balance at a high angle of incidence.  Anyway, IMO the “active” as you describe would probably not result in the adjustment you are looking for.  As Thief mention there are cascading bridles which self adjust but it doesn't look like that's what you have in mind.  There are other examples of an "adjustable" tow point but the adjustment required physical manipulation.  I'll bet you remember the old school “flip” Rokkaku kite where by various means, often a tow point ring sliding on a spar, you could cause the tow point to change and flip the Rok “upside down.”  You had to tug on the flying line enough so as to take pressure off the ring and let it slide down that spar to a stopper of some sort.  When you reapplied pressure the kite would rotate and fly upside down or should I say the other end up. There were also tumbling single cube box kites fixed with an external spar that did essentially the same thing.  I've even accomplished this using two flying lines on the same kite.  Not a very practical way of doing it but fun to mess with.  Of course in these examples the tow point simply established the same AOI just at different ends of the kite.  There wasn't any self adjusting going on. Perhaps someone will come along with a more experienced opinion. Maybe if you have a kite with the type of bridle you depict in you graphic you might experiment with it a little your self. Smiley
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makatakam
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 10:05 AM »

You would need at least two points of attachment for the bridle to make any change. Unless there is a large difference between wind speed on one part of the kite and another, the bridle will not move from it's point of balance. In other words you would need to fly on two lines at the same time to have any effect on what the kite does.
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MARK

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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 11:40 AM »

I've recently experienced a loose prusik knot on the bridle of one of my large delta. As stated previously, the knot has no trouble sliding up (toward the nose of the kite), but never once did I have the knot slide down toward the tail. Just guessing at the physics of it, but I suspect that on a delta there's a lot more sail area (and hence wind pressure) on the back end of the kite (behind the tow point) than there is forward of it. Getting the tow point to move backward probably defies physics.
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tcope
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 08:18 PM »

I have only ever tried a cascade bridle on a flow form kite. It took some doing to get the correct setting. The flow form has 3 connections (front, middle and rear of the kite). The cascade is to the middle and rear connections. I maintained the same measurements when setting up the cascade. IMHO, the kite did not fly great without the cascade and flew much better after. But it too a _lot_ of testing to get it to fly better.

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Todd Copeland
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2018, 11:22 PM »

Getting the tow point to move backward probably defies physics.

Can happen to lower kites in a train if the upper kites have lift and the lower kites don't. 

Yep, it happened to me, and OMG!!! did the train pull hard when the wind picked back up  Huh  Huh
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Kevin Sanders

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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 08:08 AM »

Nifty idea Todd.  It's surprising how many multi-keel foils have a whole set of keels and bridles which don't seem to be doing anything but hanging there.  At times just to experiment I have selectively loosed such lines and most of the time the kite seemed to fly just fine without them.  I usually end up removing all that extra stuff and most of my current designs just don't have them.  Your self adjusting "rows" seems like a way to put those middle and third rows to "work."
 Smiley
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Roger
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 10:39 AM »

Maybe something like these. > Spring cruise control governor for consistent string tension for a kite in gusts

Kite Spring Tension Limiting Control
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 10:42 AM by Roger » Logged
Ca Ike
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 11:49 PM »

I've tried activators on glider kites with mixed results.  Usually requires lengthening the bridle to make it work at all.
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