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Author Topic: SUL  (Read 1929 times)
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Krijn
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2018, 02:23 PM »

Open source:
What about a Magnet XL SUL. Big sail, very light, modern trickkite.



Krijn


Working 10hour days plus commute, I wish I had the time. Have a link for the Magnets? Iíll do some research.


http://www.kareloh.com/kite-plans/magnet-kite/magnet-112-sul/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquaRHQEZiM&list=PLE5KeFxNndAU-iO0N9V-awHvrXth937Jl&t=0s&index=15


Krijn
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PaoloM
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2018, 04:43 PM »

Open source:
What about a Magnet XL SUL. Big sail, very light, modern trickkite.



Krijn


Working 10hour days plus commute, I wish I had the time. Have a link for the Magnets? Iíll do some research.


http://www.kareloh.com/kite-plans/magnet-kite/magnet-112-sul/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquaRHQEZiM&list=PLE5KeFxNndAU-iO0N9V-awHvrXth937Jl&t=0s&index=15


Krijn


Thanks!
But I agree, nothing will ďflyĒ unless you have at least 2mph steady, and even then... itís barely worth to spend all that Money, but then Iím selling older kites, IF. Anyway, been pumping for days here in CA. Went yesterday to the beach, barely 3.5 by 2pm, still had some good times with the SF, learned a bit more.  Today I wanted to fly The Fulcrum that arrived the evening before, I was at the beach from 11 to 2, not a whisp over 1.6, pumped the SuperNova just to call the wind, nothing.
 Drove back home and tried the local park, I was gifted with 5 minutes of bumpy 3mph, I flew the SuperFly UL, as a ritual, it is my birthday! Grin Had to fly at. Least 5 minutes! Didnít had a chance to try the Fulcrum, but assembled it plenty, so I got it now.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:05 PM by PaoloM » Logged

SuperNova STD/UL, SuperFly STD/UL, Nirvana WW, Fulcrum STD / UL, Gemini, MiniGem, (Illusion, Sizzle. Alien)
coogee
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 09:16 PM »

Why not take a lateral approach and pick up a glider kite for those no wind days. They are steerable single line and once you pick up the idea are great fun. I have a Prism ZG. This is the third as I have worn out two. Great flier, nice bag for travel and cheap. The only thing I have changed is to purchase some Lazer Pro 30lb dacron. The line sees a lot of ground time so I change it regularly. Awesome little kite.

Mike
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breezin
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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2018, 09:56 AM »

Waiting for winds now. 0 to 2 mph but supposed to be hitting 5 steady thru the afternoon.Got my new Rev B yesterday. Don't know a thing on launching a quad but today luckily seems perfect winds to get the feel. I believe there is a 0 plus outdoor trickster for me and will be worth the money and time invested. Lots of folks say the Zephyr is a light standard more than a ul and won't go to the stated 1 mph. Took a lot of hours but yeah it will. 50' x 50# line set it'll fly without a lot of pumping. Just won't trick much. With my skills not enough float and kites to slow to do much. Tekken sul is lighter, faster, more responsive but still slightly harder to keep a loft under 2 mph.It wasn't made for under 2 anyways. Waiting for a puff of wind  I'll bounce both kites practicing tip tricks and flapjack based stuff. Was harder to get the bouncies going on the Tekken than the Zephyr. Learned most of that stuff and ground recoveries on a Premier Addiction.Light, fast kite that will fly well both below and above it's stated range.Gets grrr at times but not as much as trying to stay under the Pro Dancer after hitting a pancake in 2 mph winds. I'm not the brightest can in the six pack at times but that would make me look positively stupid!! Best trick I've learned bouncing the kite is the pirouette. Catch a roll up, tip land, unroll kite creating the pirouette, launching it in the opposite direction.On a good day I can now catch that about 25% of the time under 15 mph. Makes me laugh my ass off and grin,grin,grin. Doing it with 2 roll ups(by accident)I'm still a little stunned on what just happened and don't quite know how to react.Zero wind definitely has it's pluses for me. At times  Wink. MAN I NEED ANOTHER KITE !!! Don't really want to look at gliders yet(Horvath). Can't help it though. ITW DeBakker designed Skate and Flying Wings Bell designed Lamia have grabbed my attention for money well spent. Really dig the Lamia bird like effect.
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A free people follow neither politician nor preacher. They are servants. Exalted to leadership their desires no matter how noble lead to poverty, despair and destruction. Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790 Life long kite flyer.
PaoloM
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2018, 03:24 PM »

Sale went quick! Time to decide... 7 SUL or NSEWW? Anybody has experience with either? The 7 is stunning, but in flight I like more the NSE. At least in video.
Too bad Tim doesnít make a SUL! Would have been interesting. Any other really exotic SUL Iím missing out? Beside the self built ones...wish I had the time.
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SuperNova STD/UL, SuperFly STD/UL, Nirvana WW, Fulcrum STD / UL, Gemini, MiniGem, (Illusion, Sizzle. Alien)
Frazer
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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2018, 03:49 PM »

Sale went quick! Time to decide... 7 SUL or NSEWW? Anybody has experience with either? The 7 is stunning, but in flight I like more the NSE. At least in video.
Too bad Tim doesnít make a SUL! Would have been interesting. Any other really exotic SUL Iím missing out? Beside the self built ones...wish I had the time.
Easy ... just buy both.

-Frazer
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midibot
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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 08:58 PM »

Sale went quick! Time to decide... 7 SUL or NSEWW? Anybody has experience with either? The 7 is stunning, but in flight I like more the NSE. At least in video.
Too bad Tim doesnít make a SUL! Would have been interesting. Any other really exotic SUL Iím missing out? Beside the self built ones...wish I had the time.

Both very nice prospects.

I am just a bit of a hacker, but here are some thoughts and observations:

I have not flown the Nirvana WW but do have an LW which I like very much. It is framed in 3PT throughout I think. I believe the WW is framed in 2PT.

The Seven SUL has a slightly stiffer frame than the WW, using 3PT for lower spreaders and spine vs the 2PT throughout for the WW. While the wingspans are similar, the Seven seems to have a slightly trimmer sail than my LW. It is subjective, but the graphics are nice on the Nirvana, but stunning on the Seven to these eyes. I really like them both. My Seven SUL is a relatively recent acquire.

As between my two kites, the Seven SUL has a slightly lower end than my LW, but not by much. I would expect that the WW can fly in lower wind than the Seven, but that may be pilot dependent as well as how the kites have been set up (arenít they all?). The Seven, being stiffer, may also have more mass than the WW for certain moves I would expect, and a higher upper end. My LW may be a little more precise of my two.

On your choices: they are similarly priced when I last looked. Who can deliver first? Wink

What a dilemma. Yeah, buy them both!

.
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jaydub
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« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 11:39 PM »

Paolo,

Ask Krijn to quote you for a Magnet XL SUL.  I think you might be surprised how cost effective an option it is.  I like the Seven std quite a lot, but I really like the Magnet XL std.

If you only want to consider Manufacturer kites,  I'd buy the Seven over the Nirvana, just in terms of aesthetics and build quality.  Jurgen's build quality is right up there with Tim B's and a notch or two above what R-Sky offer.
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DD
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« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2018, 11:00 AM »

Paolo,

Ask Krijn to quote you for a Magnet XL SUL.  I think you might be surprised how cost effective an option it is.  I like the Seven std quite a lot, but I really like the Magnet XL std.

If you only want to consider Manufacturer kites,  I'd buy the Seven over the Nirvana, just in terms of aesthetics and build quality.  Jurgen's build quality is right up there with Tim B's and a notch or two above what R-Sky offer.

+1 on  his excellent build quality. Top notch
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Sine Metu!
Palmahnic
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« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2018, 01:38 PM »

In my limited experience, they both serve different flying styles. The Seven has a better quality build, and NSE has more accessible tricking ability in my opinion. The nse would probably handle lighter wind easier. Esthetics are in eye of the beholder. Both have good resale capability. At this point it would be hard for you to determine which type you would connect to. Get the one that itches most and maybe sell it if you don't like it. Open source is a great option when you're still finding your way.
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Thank you kindly,
Iftah.
Frazer
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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2018, 02:40 PM »

In my limited experience, they both serve different flying styles. The Seven has a better quality build, and NSE has more accessible tricking ability in my opinion. The nse would probably handle lighter wind easier. Esthetics are in eye of the beholder. Both have good resale capability. At this point it would be hard for you to determine which type you would connect to. Get the one that itches most and maybe sell it if you don't like it. Open source is a great option when you're still finding your way.
I have the Seven SUL and its very accessible, its Lam kite accessible.

ie. If you can't JL this kite ... perhaps consider another hobby ?

-Frazer
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PaoloM
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2018, 11:17 AM »

Thanks for the replies all, very useful. I'm going with the WW. The 7 is stunning but Iím worried about its longevity since itís moslty Mylar, Jorgen honestly pointed that out this morning and after some research I decided I want a Icarex kite. The Magnet is a very cost effective choice, but I like the WW better. If I had the time and skills to build one I would try.

I should order it by today. But if you have other suggestions please let me know.
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SuperNova STD/UL, SuperFly STD/UL, Nirvana WW, Fulcrum STD / UL, Gemini, MiniGem, (Illusion, Sizzle. Alien)
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2018, 02:07 PM »

Before you shoot in the dark on another low wind kite and being only 20 miles from the Pacific Ocean list your top two spots to fly currently, the frequency you show up there, expected wind directions and then where you fly and WHY you think you can't fly under 2 mph whether in the San Francisco Bay area or the Pacific. Don't tell me you fly in a park in your home town!

Your problem could be you just need more experience in low winds, the right tools and the right zip code in your hometown area.

APJ
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Kite inventory of Dual Line Kites:Benson - Inner Space; L'Atelier xt.z.; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Light; GPS -SUL, Light, Vent Light/4 Panel Vent-design, Full Vent 5PT design ; Mind Trick SUL Custom 2PT Design, Triple S Mind Trick construction (SSSUL) - NEAR ZERO WIND INDOOR TYPE.
PaoloM
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2018, 05:25 PM »

Before you shoot in the dark on another low wind kite and being only 20 miles from the Pacific Ocean list your top two spots to fly currently, the frequency you show up there, expected wind directions and then where you fly and WHY you think you can't fly under 2 mph whether in the San Francisco Bay area or the Pacific. Don't tell me you fly in a park in your home town!

Your problem could be you just need more experience in low winds, the right tools and the right zip code in your hometown area.

APJ

I have been flying under 2 with he Ozone for decades. I started with kites around Ď92. I had plenty of time and experience in dual, quad, single and team comps. I enjoy low wind more tbh for the finesse it takes, but the Oz has its limits, and now, in a bag full of new kites it was getting jealous. So I picked the WW.
I can fly the SF in anything above 2 with pumping and walking, but thatís an UL. It a SUL, even if Iím working on a SUL mod for the SF with GF skinnies instead of 3P. Sinchť I have them around.

And it wasnít a shot in the dark, I read all that was available, took my time and choose. I picked the 7, then the Eco7 (SDK) but, and that was a bit weird, Jorgen the kite designer, pointed out that the Mylar he was using was very delicate... maybe too much, so I picked the R-Sky.

As for the flying spots, depends on the time and willingness to drive. Most of the time will be Berkeley, but there too the wind is really low unril 12 ish. If not itís usually my local park, I live  45í east of SF, and itís inland wind between hills.

Besides, after selling all the old ones I have plenty of kite money left ;-) might get an updated Gemini, or something vented...
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SuperNova STD/UL, SuperFly STD/UL, Nirvana WW, Fulcrum STD / UL, Gemini, MiniGem, (Illusion, Sizzle. Alien)
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2018, 06:16 PM »

Building a super low wind kite is as difficult as building a stunt kite that can fly in 15 mph without much foot movement, wide tricking capability or work. I have gone through the full spectrum of Prism kites like the Ozone and others. These IMO are middle of the road. Sure people who know me know I am going to mention Lam Hoac. I first heard of the Tattoo around 10 years ago. People kept telling me get the Tattoo it works better than any SUL currently out there in terms of flying in the so-called NEAR ZERO spectrum. To this day I have not found or handled one that surpasses other than the Triple S which was custom made for me by Lam and is lighter and has a more fragile LE. As I mentioned earlier on another topic I go Benson IS/Triple S/Tattoo and then a SUL at this point his GPS-SUL. The Tattoo just works 1-2 mph better than his SUL in becoming airborne EVEN IN THE CORNERS. However I understand there is more activity in Europe now with these kite builders like PAW & Krijn but I do find it difficult that they can surpass these TWO low wind kites (Tattoo & Triple S). I do however believe that for Vented Kites there MUST be some easily equivalents or superior models to Lam's Vented models. Just a gut feeling as these guys fly in high winds all the time and have more kite builders experimenting across the pond. Every low wind kite I have purchased from Europe although not many have been sub-standard to these two IMO. I just use the Benson Inner Space indoor when the wind is almost absent (why put a mph number on that). I also figured you may do more inland flying than beach flying. BTW the Tattoo is for a place like Berkeley or a beach type environment and not inland where you experience up and down winds and occasional light gusts even below 5 mph. Not due to its durability but its a floater or simply a 1-3 mpg pure ocean wind kind of kite. The Tattoo currently has had some minor upgrades to its design BTW. Lam is coming out with this INDOOR/OUTDOOR model so I may explore that in 2019. As an example I tried the so-called GHOST from Europe ... your kidding me ... right?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Good luck on the WW model.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes   
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 06:23 PM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

Kite inventory of Dual Line Kites:Benson - Inner Space; L'Atelier xt.z.; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Light; GPS -SUL, Light, Vent Light/4 Panel Vent-design, Full Vent 5PT design ; Mind Trick SUL Custom 2PT Design, Triple S Mind Trick construction (SSSUL) - NEAR ZERO WIND INDOOR TYPE.
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