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Author Topic: Tail weights  (Read 1229 times)
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OZKITE_PILOT
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« on: December 13, 2018, 09:07 PM »

Hi there all
Just wandering pls what the idea of added tail weights does to a dual line sport kite ?
Some have and some don't iv noticed
Thanks
Glenn
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 09:42 PM »

Tail weight adds ballast to one end making roll up tricks easier and some makers add it to the wing tips to increase rotational mass.  Personally, I don't find it really necessary if the kite frame and bridle are set up well enough.  The extra weight can be done by frame changes such as using a tapered spine with more mass at the large end in the tail and roll up capability can be done with a combination of frame set up and sail shape.  The Elixir is a good example of a roll up monster that doesn't really need tail weight.  Adding weight is easy and cheap to do compared to the time it takes to adjust the frame and sail to get the right set up for what you want to achieve.
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Jsc2501
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 06:43 AM »

CA IKE is spot on.
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Frazer
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2018, 09:33 AM »

Tail weight adds ballast to one end making roll up tricks easier and some makers add it to the wing tips to increase rotational mass.  Personally, I don't find it really necessary if the kite frame and bridle are set up well enough.  The extra weight can be done by frame changes such as using a tapered spine with more mass at the large end in the tail and roll up capability can be done with a combination of frame set up and sail shape.  The Elixir is a good example of a roll up monster that doesn't really need tail weight.  Adding weight is easy and cheap to do compared to the time it takes to adjust the frame and sail to get the right set up for what you want to achieve.
That's a very naive viewpoint.

Perhaps, given sufficient time and materials kites could be designed this way, endlessly tweaking framing, bridles and sail shapes, but kite makers are not afforded such luxuries and compromises must be taken in order to get designs to market at prices which consumers are prepared to bear. But beyond that, tail weight adds ballast at the precise location on the kite where it is needed, you could increase the mass of the framing by a similar amount but it would not have the same effect. What's more, the use of tail weights allows fliers to easily (instantly on the field) tune their kites to the specific conditions, light winds perhaps reduce the ballast, strong winds, increase it. Try achieving that with framing materials. True, you can always tweak the bridle but it'll make little difference getting a kite to rollup.

The Elixir will rollup without yo-yo stoppers, but you'd struggle to find anyone to support an argument that they are not a positive addition to a trick oriented kite.

-Frazer
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 06:08 PM by Frazer » Logged
PaoloM
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 10:35 AM »

I was flying my beaten up Alien in Berkeley. Watching Robin trick endlessly and in mysterious ways I started talking to him, finding myself eons behind in kiteology. That day he added a weight to the tail of my Alien, which started rolling like it was 2017. That hour tweaking the kite with weight, in September, sparked a relapse of the kite virus thatís still running strong 6 new (for me) kites after.

So be careful  Grin they do make a difference.
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 10:51 AM »

Adding weight is easy and cheap to do compared to the time it takes to adjust the frame and sail to get the right set up for what you want to achieve.

As a dutchy i love easy and cheap!
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DD
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 01:10 PM »

+1 to what Fraz says.
In some cases, you could take a kite into a lower wind range by removing the weight
you are seeing some kites weights in the frame and unremovable

a velcroed quarter are quickly adjustable
the blue moon system is nice
then you get to all manners of lead weights
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KaoS
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 04:27 PM »

Tail weight adds ballast to one end making roll up tricks easier and some makers add it to the wing tips to increase rotational mass.  Personally, I don't find it really necessary if the kite frame and bridle are set up well enough.  The extra weight can be done by frame changes such as using a tapered spine with more mass at the large end in the tail and roll up capability can be done with a combination of frame set up and sail shape.  The Elixir is a good example of a roll up monster that doesn't really need tail weight.  Adding weight is easy and cheap to do compared to the time it takes to adjust the frame and sail to get the right set up for what you want to achieve.

Such a simplistic answer!

" ... frame set up and sail shape..." are chosen for so many more reasons than merely ease of roll up.

"The extra weight can be done by frame changes such as using a tapered spine with more mass at the large end in the tail..."  In a kite that uses 20 grams or more in tail weight, there is no tapered spar on the market that will replicate a 35+ gram spine & weight with that same weight distribution.

Oh geez, I could go on...   Roll Eyes
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Kevin Sanders

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Ca Ike
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 09:16 PM »

Tail weight adds ballast to one end making roll up tricks easier and some makers add it to the wing tips to increase rotational mass.  Personally, I don't find it really necessary if the kite frame and bridle are set up well enough.  The extra weight can be done by frame changes such as using a tapered spine with more mass at the large end in the tail and roll up capability can be done with a combination of frame set up and sail shape.  The Elixir is a good example of a roll up monster that doesn't really need tail weight.  Adding weight is easy and cheap to do compared to the time it takes to adjust the frame and sail to get the right set up for what you want to achieve.
That's a very naive viewpoint.

Perhaps, given sufficient time and materials kites could be designed this way, endlessly tweaking framing, bridles and sail shapes, but kite makers are not afforded such luxuries and compromises must be taken in order to get designs to market at prices which consumers are prepared to bear. But beyond that, tail weight adds ballast at the precise location on the kite where it is needed, you could increase the mass of the framing by a similar amount but it would not have the same effect. What's more, the use of tail weights allows fliers to easily (instantly on the field) tune their kites to the specific conditions, light winds perhaps reduce the ballast, strong winds, increase it. Try achieving that with framing materials. True, you can always tweak the bridle but it'll make little difference getting a kite to rollup.

The Elixir will rollup without yo-yo stoppers, but you'd struggle to find anyone to support an argument that they are not a positive addition to a trick oriented kite.

-Frazer
I could have into a much more extensive answer but peoples eyes tend to glass over if you get too technical.  Bottom line is the main reason for tail weight is to increase the ability of a kite to do roll up tricks in an easy and cheap manner or add mass to increase rotational inertia especially in light weight kites.  There are a lot of things you can tweak on a kite to get the same performance but it is a time intensive procedure and often takes a lot of materials and several prototypes.  My own personal experimental kite is on its 4th prototype and over 6 months of flight testing + 2 months worth of time in the sewing room.
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OZKITE_PILOT
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2018, 12:24 AM »

hiya guys
cool thanks for the great info
cheers Smiley
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coogee
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2018, 01:35 AM »

hiya guys
cool thanks for the great info
cheers Smiley

Very Droll

Mike
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OZKITE_PILOT
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2018, 01:35 PM »

hiya guys
cool thanks for the great info
cheers Smiley

Very Droll

Mike

what,i am happy for the comments advice that was recieved,nothing wrong with me saying thanks!!
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coogee
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2018, 08:48 PM »

No offence intended.

Just made me smile.

Mike
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OZKITE_PILOT
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2018, 01:40 PM »

All good mike Smiley
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OZKITE_PILOT
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2018, 12:45 AM »

does added tail weights slow the kite down a little or increase speed a little ?thanks
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