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Author Topic: various nirvana bridles?  (Read 2502 times)
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tommymcmillan
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« on: September 11, 2009, 07:26 PM »

I was thinking about changeing the bridle on my nirvana,to the RTG bridle,and wanted to know. What changes to the kite flying characteristics would this  bridle affect/improve upon?
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anOldMan
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 12:53 AM »

Shouldn't the process be reversed. What characteristics do you want from the kite and is there a bridle setup that will give you those characteristics.  Smiley
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anOldMan
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 01:54 AM »

to answer the question we'd have to know what bridle design you're using currently.

i was thinking of asking randyg to make a tutorial not specifically about the merits of one design vs the next but more if you're out at the field and you want a little more oversteer, lengthen this leg, if you want a bit more forward drive, shorten this leg type of thing.

the dude knows how to set up a kite, for sure. maybe he'd be kind enough to teach the rest of us how to do the same.

there's no shortage of technical discussion about bridles on the internet but there is a dearth of practical information.

all i know is, the nirvana i bought from him flies like a friggin' champ. it also apparently flies different enough than other nirvana's to change one of my friends views from anti to pro nirvana. thanks randy. Grin
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fidelio
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 01:55 AM »

oh, and i'd be happy to send you my bridle measurements if you like.
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KaoS
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 05:29 AM »

Don't die wondering...go for it.  The fact that there are so many possible bridles for a Nirvana highlights the fact that bridles are a personal choice.

Different people notice different things about the way a kite is bridled.  For example, a reverse turbo bridle might make it easier for you to hold fades (tow points wider apart when the kite is in that position), but a person that doesn't have trouble holding fades might not really notice that effect.

I generally prefer a turbo style of bridle over a 3 point - but not on all kites.  On a lot of kites I feel a certain harshness transitioning from move to move using a 3 point, whereas a bridle with a more active towpoint buffers this harshness.

If you never try a change, you'll never know if you like it or not.  If you do try the change and you don't like it, at least you've learned something
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Kevin Sanders

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randyg
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 07:12 AM »

A virtual plethora of Nirvana bridles can be found here:

http://www.sportkiteflyer.com/Kitespecs/bridages_Nirvana.pdf

The reverse turbo bridle that has been the most popular for the Nirvana is here:



I, and most mortals, use the RTG version and is the bridle Darrin has on his Collector.

This is what the bridle should look like and also the translation for which leg is which as the Europeans state them:



As for Darrinís statement about my being a bridle champ, though I appreciate him saying so, it is very far from true. I know a bit about Nirvana bridles but beyond that Iím pretty much a bridle hack who can tie a few decent knots. I do however know the Nirvana pretty well. Wink

The Nirvana he owns is set up box, stock to Rogerís specs and my only mods are the RTG bridle and Iíve changed out the Icone White ULE for Icone Red. It performs like all my Nirvanas, past and present. If a Nirvana doesnít, itís not set up right. Believe me, Iíve un-modded a number of Nís and coached a number of others over the internet and it gets scary what a well intentioned ďmodderĒ can do to a Nirvana.

Itís been so long since Iíve flown a stock bridle I donít recall the changes. I donít recall them being majorÖmore shades of gray. Feels a bit more direct and pitches just a tab bit faster as I remember. Also pulls a bit less in higer winds. From there Iíd suggest anyone try one out and see for yourself. Itís a pretty simple bridle to tie. I would suggest you use the stock adjustment pigtails at the ULE and regular pigtails at all the other connections and tie a tautline hitch for adjusting to make sure you are spot on to the measurement. The picture above is a good example.
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tommymcmillan
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 08:43 AM »

I've got acouple of questions:
#1 do i leave the bridle/line w/the pigtails on it located next to the upperspreader on the kite or do i take it off?
#2 how do you go about measureing from knot to knot?
#3 what size/strenght line should be used to tie the bridle with?
#4 is their a prussik knot on the RTG bridle?
#5 could you please send me more pics of the bridle(upper & lower spreader, & center-t, where all the lines are tied togather)
Thank you,
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fidelio
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 06:14 PM »

#1 you mean the old bridle? if you're replacing the whole thing you can take it off. untie the knots instead of cutting it off and you can return it to the kite should you choose.
#2 i just use a ruler or measuring tape taking care not to poke the sail if the bridle is on the kite.
#3 personally i use #170 laser pro bridle line.
#4 yes, on the end of the turbo leg/pigtail. it connects to the line which creates (using the names randy provided) the incidence/interior legs. this way you can adjust for windspeed typically.
#5 does this video help? hd available on youtube.
R-Sky Nirvana Reverse Turbo Bridle


i would encourage others to provide any information possible as i'm far, far, far from knowledgeable on this subject.
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randyg
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 07:40 PM »

1. I now leave the pigtail with the adjustment knots on at the ULE and attach the new bridle. I really like to have a way to easily and quickly adjust for wind strength.

2. Center of knot to center of knot. I like to measure twice to insure I've measured correctly. Go to a fabric store or Wal-Mart and pick up a fabric measuring tape. They have them that ratchet with inches on one side and cm on the other. Measure in cm. It's a French kite you know.  Wink

3. For all but an SUL, Darrin has it. 170# Laser Pro bridle line. Keeper lines are 100#.

4. There doesn't have to be. I've since changed, slightly, how I build an N bridle since the construction of Darrin's. Now the turbo leg is a single piece of line with knots and I larkshead the Incidence/Interior line to the innermost knot on that turbo leg. (Hope that makes sense. Roll Eyes)

5. Darrin's video should help on this one. Note that his bridle is not stock R-Sky as from the factory there are no attachment pigtails for adjustment.

Hope that helps. The more bridles you build the easier it becomes. Just buy extra line to play around with.

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tommymcmillan
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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 03:37 PM »

Thank you, for all the info. & clearing up a lot questions. I've since ordered the #170 & #100 bridle from Steve and as soon as it arrives i'll try my best to tie on the RTG bridle and let you know how it comes out.
Thank you,
v/r SSGT. T.L.Mcmillan,USMC
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fidelio
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2009, 12:43 AM »

it takes far more line than you'd expect to make knots, so when you cut a piece, make it longer than you think you need, then add 4 more inches, then cut.

you'll also need a candle or lighter handy as for each cut you make you'll want to seal the ends to keep them from fraying. another surprise though is how quickly the length you've cut will shrink at the tip when the heat is applied.

i've been more accurate making knots in pairs (left and right) in sequence, rather than completely forming half a bridle then trying to get the other side to match. match them as you move along, one knot at a time.

so just as an example, and a simple exercise for you once your line arrives, tie a set of leaders.

cut 2x (two pieces) #170x4ft. seal one end on each piece. measure 8" from the sealed end, and hold the line with your finger at 8". fold the short loose end in half so the sealed end meets your finger at the 8" mark. grab both ends now under your finger and make an overhand knot to create a loop and try to get the knot close to your finger you're gripping with so when you tighten the knot you have 1/8" or so exposed of the sealed end. fold the loop and the long end together so the 1/8" bit is exposed by itself. now you can carefully apply heat to shrink the exposed 1/8" down to the knot to make it neat and tidy. now do the same on the second line you cut.

now you have two lines hopefully with the same size loop on the end. it'd be nice if they're the same but since this is practice it's ok if they're not exactly the same because since we're working in a sequence, instead of finishing one then the other, we can accommodate  for a little inaccuracy in the next step.

take one of your looped lines and on the opposite end to where you tied the loop make a double overhand knot leaving exposed about 1/2" of line. tighten up this knot, put pressure on it so your knot is final size. now find a spot in your environment where you can hang both of these lines together by their loop end and pull on them. in my home i use a door handle. now on the second unfinished leader take and make the same double overhand knot leaving exposed roughly the same amount as before but before you pull the knot tight, hang both and tug on them both to see that when you tighten your second knot on the end of the leader it's going to, once tightened, end up exactly the same length as the other. you may need to loosen and move the knot slightly forward or backward from the end but since the knot isn't tight it shouldn't be too difficult at this point. once you're satisfied the knot is going to end up in exactly the same spot finalize it's position by pulling tight on it, and the other leader at the same time. once you've done this, trim the remaining exposed line down to 1/8" then melt the tip back to the knot for a clean and snag free job.

now you have a nice pair of leader lines to attach to your new bridle when it's done. it looks like a lot of text but it shouldn't take you more than 10-15 minutes to make a set of leaders from start to finish.

another tip is when you want matching pieces, cut one length of line twice as long as you need +10%. melt your tips, then take the cut ends lined up and held together then cut where the line is folded in half at the other end. then melt the tips to equal length. less measuring to the ruler this way but more importantly it ends up more accurate than measuring, cutting, and melting the pieces individually. you can multiply this too so to speak. say you wanted 4 pieces 10"ea, you would cut one piece of line from the spool at 44ish inches, melt the tips, fold in half, cut, melt to match, fold the 2 pieces in half, cut, melt to match, and now you should have 4 matching bits of line the exact same length, roughly 10".

the reason to go through this is, as an exercise it'll teach you good habits of comparing your results left to right as you go along, and moving step by step, knot by knot, down the line. this way the final dimension of your cut piece of line is the last thing you determine, once your knots are all tied up and matched, rather than the first thing, as knowing exactly how much line you need to tie up a particular section of bridle is a skill i think only professional kite makers have.

of course later on you may come up with your own way of doing things which works best for you, but consider this a starting point.

sorry for the length but i tried the remove the ambiguity from my descriptions, rather than your experience.
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F°deliį
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