GWTW Forum
October 22, 2014, 02:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Kite Antenna Dangers  (Read 2960 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
obijuankenobe
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 425


Location: Barendrecht, Nederland

« on: September 30, 2009, 01:02 AM »

Hello again.

I wanted to post this here because there seem to be some fairly knowledgable folks here with regard to deep sky flying.  (I hope).

So I have been thinking kite antenna.  Particularly, how to prevent my portable rig and antenna from being attached to the kite in a way which might result in them flying away with it. 

This could be dangerous in a BIG way because of course, the antenna is a high conductive wire.  Aside from the obvious dangers of powerlines in the vacinity of the kite when flown under supervision, imagine a loose kite with a copper wire line hanging from it.  Ouch.

The antenna wire will need to be lifted (into as vertical position as the kite can manage) by the kite, but it should stay with me if the kite becomes unanchored.  So far, I imagine a 25-40m wire, lifted by a kite which is flown another 50-100m above where the lift point is.  The wire in this set up would be supported by it's own line, which is attached to the flying line of the kite at the lift point.  This line could be very strong compared to the flying line, and be anchored separately to assure the antenna stays put.

If the antenna and it's support line weigh somewhere no more than 5 pounds, what size sled will keep this stable (roughly)?   

Critiques, ideas, experienced advice, etc...all welcome.  I know next to nothing about what single line sleds are capable of lifting, nor which ones are the best, most stable, etc.  If you have an extra lying about, see my wanted ad.

obi
Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
thief
Moderator
Trade Count: (+25)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3646


Location: North Shore of Massa-WHO-setts

WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 03:29 AM »

sleds are not exactly the best lifters out there....
because they have a single set of bridle points that are in a line there is no way to adjust the kite to get more pull from it....
sleds are designed to fly well and be able to adjust their angle of attack as needed automatically....

i guess it would help to know how much does 40m of your antenna weigh?

the nice things is that if you do get a sled that turns out to be too small then you have a great easy to put up single line kite in the bag Wink
Logged

Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
misterbleepy
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82


Location: Newquay, Cornwall, UK

« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 03:58 AM »

The wire in this set up would be supported by it's own line, which is attached to the flying line of the kite at the lift point.  This line could be very strong compared to the flying line, and be anchored separately to assure the antenna stays put.

Would it be better to use weak line to attach the aerial antenna to the lifting kite's line - then if things went wrong, a tug on the aerial antenna would snap that line and bring things safely down to earth?
Logged

Keith B...   ...leep     bleep     bleep
portley777
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 42


Location: Melbourne

« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 08:06 AM »

  I think it should all be cool if the weekest point of contact is on the kite itself: if all else fails reel the line and antenna in. I have a Brooxes KAP kit which I've used a few times on both a 6ft Premiere Rok and a 9ft delta Conyene- both have been able to pull the rig, camera and 400ft of 150# line in a light/moderate breeze. The simple line clips on the rig are great (look into those) and could be used to attach the antenna wire and/or catch line. Best of luck Smiley

p.s. check the "KAP-Klips™" : http://www.brooxes.com/newsite/BBKK/BBKK-PARTS.html  (this is not a rival kite retail site)

Cheers,
Mike
Logged

kite a fly go
indigo_wolf
Trade Count: (+10)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1199


Location: North of Washington, DC (USA)

« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2009, 08:11 AM »

Would it be better to use weak line to attach the aerial antenna to the lifting kite's line - then if things went wrong, a tug on the aerial antenna would snap that line and bring things safely down to earth?


Would it be better to use weak line to attach the aerial antenna to the lifting kite's line - then if things went wrong, a tug on the aerial antenna would snap that line and bring things safely down to earth?


 Undecided I guess relating to Rob's weight question, how much kinetic energy would the antenna be carrying if it were released from a good height.  How much lateral travel would it be prone to.  Is it really a good idea to intentionally set it up so that it is possible for the glide ratio of the antenna to drop so precipitously?  Glad we have indoor cats.  Huh

This page might help:
http://www.qsl.net/g4vgo/index.htm

Is this for a ham radio or similar set up?  There are entire sites dedicated to this.

ATB,
Sam
Logged
obijuankenobe
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 425


Location: Barendrecht, Nederland

« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 11:42 AM »

Yeah, there are whole sites about amateur radio.  But they don't know many secrets regarding kites, or kite antennas for that matter.  I have been there and done that.

Thanks for the tips so far. 

Another question coming from this discussion:  What would you guys recommend for a kite if not a sled?  I just don't have a lick of experience with single line flying.  While I am SURE I can do it, I am also sure that I would benefit from a little advice.

I had not thought of a rok, and that's very appealing.  I can also imagine that being a bit more steath.

obi
Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
misterbleepy
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82


Location: Newquay, Cornwall, UK

« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2009, 12:18 PM »

Would it be better to use weak line to attach the aerial antenna to the lifting kite's line - then if things went wrong, a tug on the aerial antenna would snap that line and bring things safely down to earth?

 Undecided I guess relating to Rob's weight question, how much kinetic energy would the antenna be carrying if it were released from a good height.  How much lateral travel would it be prone to.  Is it really a good idea to intentionally set it up so that it is possible for the glide ratio of the antenna to drop so precipitously?  Glad we have indoor cats.  Huh

My thought on the weak link was so the antenna wire could be brought down in a controlled manner by the pilot, to avoid danger if the kite broke free with the antenna still attached - the pilot would hopefully be able to shoo away any outdoor cats in the area ;-)
Logged

Keith B...   ...leep     bleep     bleep
thief
Moderator
Trade Count: (+25)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3646


Location: North Shore of Massa-WHO-setts

WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2009, 12:24 PM »

an interesting thought:
attaching the antenna to a line climber that would not instantly close and slide back down....then the antenna is separate from the kite line...and it would be reeled/pulled back in against the wind....

a worry i would have is that the antenna would fall down the field/flying area if the weak link broke....it would not be like a rope coming straight down from above.....

but then i have no idea where this kite antenna would be employed.......
(i am guessing that we are probably over thinking it a lot too!)
Logged

Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
JimB
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+6)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1150


Location: NYC

« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2009, 10:32 PM »

A Dopero might be nice for this.

But.

If you were looking for a kite to lift an antenna why look further than what has been used to good effect in the past?

Marconi - essentially a Rok.

A regular old box kite or Military box kites of one sort or another, most notably Codys.

Some of the other compound box kites (think Hargrave).

No need to re-invent the wheel unless you want to.

You don't need it to be massive if your load is small.

The bigger problem is going to be wind. More specifically what type and how much.

People using kites as lifters of this sort have generally gravitated to places with strong constant wind. If you were to do the same this would necessitate a pretty heavy duty rig.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 10:38 PM by JimB » Logged
obijuankenobe
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 425


Location: Barendrecht, Nederland

« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2009, 01:47 AM »

Well, in addition to the task itself, the other goal would be portability.  I gravitated toward a sled because it seems they are the easiest to pack up, the hardest to damage, and maybe even have the widest wind range??

Am I off base, or does this sound reasonable?

obi
Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
benjai
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


Location:

« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2009, 02:59 AM »

Obi,

You might want to take a look at the equipment used by RC gliders for towing or bungee launching. All sorts of breakable links, radio controlled hooks etc are available. FWIW I'd suggest a weak link between the antenna and the kite line, and anchoring the bottom of the antenna such that in any failure the antenna stays attached to the ground. As for safety of the other end of the antenna, slowing it's descent is the way, and the RC guys have a bunch of neat stuff including parachutes which are kept closed by tension on the line, but open when the tension is released. These are used in bungee launching to safely recover the far end of the bungee (which could be 200m long and significantly heavy). Obviously you need to accound to dwonwind drift, but in my experience it works well.. One example of the sort of kite I mean here

HTH
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 03:00 AM by benjai » Logged
kiteguy
Trade Count: (+1)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59

Location:

« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2009, 07:56 AM »

Seems like I remember reading that fastening the antenna to the kite is not a good idea.  The kite has a tendency to dance around.

However, if you hook the antenna to the flying line away from the kite, then it will remain much more steady.

Or at least that is how I remember it.   Roll Eyes
Logged
obijuankenobe
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 425


Location: Barendrecht, Nederland

« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 04:45 AM »

So I have gotten to the basic design. 

Because I am using a fixed length of wire, which must always reach the ground, I have discovered a problem I could use some input on. 

I intend to fly the kite with a strong separate line (of course), lifting the antenna line (and antenna wire) up at some fixed point on the flying line.  These points might vary depending on conditions, so I'd like to be able to put the lifter up, decide on a good height, attach the antenna 100' or so under the kite, and then let out additional line to raise the antenna into position.

Can I use a carabiner twisted into the line as a lift point for the antenna line? (I have seen this done in various other 'rope' situations, but was wondering if this works with kite line.)

obi
Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
mikenchico
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2173


Location: ‪‪‪‪‪‎Chico, Ca

WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2009, 09:57 AM »


Can I use a carabiner twisted into the line as a lift point for the antenna line? (I have seen this done in various other 'rope' situations, but was wondering if this works with kite line.)

obi
Should work fine, check Gombergs site (gombergkites-dot-com (all GKP products are available through Gone With The Wind / Chico Kites Wink )) if you need to see a pic on how to twist it on. A larkshead works but if I recall he shows a way that doesn't kink the line back on itself so you don't weaken the line at all. Check under attaching line laundry.

Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
thief
Moderator
Trade Count: (+25)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3646


Location: North Shore of Massa-WHO-setts

WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 04:01 AM »


maybe this picture will provide an idea?
Logged

Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!