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Author Topic: Fearless SUL vs. SD SUL  (Read 3374 times)
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anOldMan
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2009, 07:07 AM »

I know of at least one person that sold an Exile UL in favor of a FL, what does the FL do that the Exile wouldn't ?
~Rob.

Fly in 0 wind. Wink Wink

IMO the main difference between the Fearless and the Exile is the FL is a competition kite where the Exile is a recreational kite. That is not to say the Exile cannot do all the tricks. It is just that the Exile seems more relaxed about it. The FL is just a little more precise, needs a little less effort and a little quicker when doing tricks.
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Hill  :-? :-?   What hill?   I don't remember any HILL!!  :-? :-?

anOldMan
Kantaxel
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2009, 07:57 AM »

There's a difference between the tatoo and the SUL other than cosmetic ? ~Rob.

I can't answer all the other questions, (I think Tom would be the resident Fearless/Exile UL answerman) but Lam told me that applique, no matter how well it's done, will not allow the sail to fill as well, hence the tattoo flys lower than the SUL..................makes sense to me and even I can tell the difference on the lines. Shocked

Jim
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RobB
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2009, 08:54 AM »

Oh, no ! I heard that the Tatoo isn't being made anymore... Is that the case ? Did I miss the boat ?
 Shocked
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2009, 01:59 PM »

I've flown the Fearless SUL and I own the SUL Tattoo version. They trick the same and any difference will only be felt at the very bottom end of the wind range.
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James -
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2009, 03:37 PM »

Oh, no ! I heard that the Tatoo isn't being made anymore... Is that the case ? Did I miss the boat ?
 Shocked
I think no.......There are a lot of rumors out there, but when I last talked to Lam (Friday the ninth) they were still available..........(he called them a true SUL).......................

The vent is in production now, too................(they will fly easy down to four mph)

Order one Rob.........you WILL like it Lips sealed

Jim
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tpatter
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2009, 06:59 PM »

There's a difference between the tatoo and the SUL other than cosmetic ? How would you compare either the SD SUL or the FL SUL to the Exile UL ? I've been having a great time with my Exile UL, but am considering another Lam kite, one for lighter winds than my SD std. I know of at least one person that sold an Exile UL in favor of a FL, what does the FL do that the Exile wouldn't ?
~Rob.

Fearless and Exile UL are two totally different kites. 

The EUL is slow, graceful, and designed for very elegant low wind tricks - sort of like a waltz in my mind.  It really excels at the older school tricks and is very floaty.  Its a joy to fly, but takes a decent flyer to get the most out of it - I'd call it more of a finesse kite.  It does not like to be man-handled.

The Fearless SUL is more of a dance-party kite.  No-one is going to try and do a pin-wheel on one.  It begs to be tricked and is very pitch and turtle friendly.  Much more modern-trick capable than the EUL - seems designed from the ground up for trick flying.

Both great kites, but for different purposes.

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6 kite tom
ko
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2009, 07:40 PM »

my tattoo came today pics to come,  it is black because that is what lam thinks works best with the theme.  the build as always is awesome i have no problem communicating with lam he is really committed to building what you need and is a great guy to talk with IMO  KO
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 07:43 PM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
ezme6
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2009, 08:13 PM »

Lam has always been a step ahead IMHO Cool
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"Do what you like"
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2009, 04:59 PM »

I will probably be venturing toward the SSUL (Tattoo). I will be talking to Lam shortly on this kite. My desire is to find a kite than can fly with the same winds as the Benson IS in near zero winds. At times in the early morning there are days in the Summer with virtually no wind only the Benson IS is good for me but of course I discovered the Ghost. But it loves the turtle and fade to flare tricks are a problem INITIALLY. I hope this kite fits in this nitch. As I undestand it the kite has no pattern but holes designed as a Fearless SUL and above - hence the name tattoo. This one kite should replace the Benson IS & SD-SUL. For those who flown the Tattoo what is the upper limit. What is the lower spreader in this kite? Is it 2PT? I guess as with any Lam kite structural substitutions can me made like putting 5PT on the Light version or 7PT on the standard version as I currently do with upper wind changes on my SDs. Will discuss with Lam but looking for different opinions here.
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
tpatter
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2009, 05:49 PM »

John,

The SUL comes in 2 flavors - the Tattoo and the regular sail pattern.   The SSUL is a special kite made for ultra low winds, but Lam generally does not make that one as far as I know.   Confusingly enough, the one SSUL I've flown is not a Tattoo.

The SSUL is an amazing kite, very specialized for lowest wind possible, but it will not one-pop in what I'd call a standard way (like the other Fearless).  I've flown Sherril's and he could provide more info on it - I think Lam made it at his request looking to go as light as possible, it may be the only one produced. 

The SUL goes very low as it is, particularly when its smooth wind.  I can fly it in the same wind that I would fly the Exile UL or Shadow in.  You can't go wrong with the SUL - it one of the most amazing kites I've ever flown.
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6 kite tom
Kantaxel
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 06:07 PM »

John,
In my last conversation with Lam, he told me that he had only made two of the kites Tom's talking about. (SSUL)

He told me that it was framed in spars less than two PTs, (he didn't expand on that) and I got the impression that it was pretty fragile.  The Tatoo can have either 3 or 2Pt spreaders which makes it pretty much like any other of the Fearless Lam makes.

Jim
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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2009, 06:16 PM »

TPATTER - Well - I just a had an incredible one hour conversation with Lam. To make a long story short I am purchasing the Tattoo in Black the only color preferred by Lam for this kite. It seems the black color aids him in the sewing, overall design & building of this kite. What we really discussed is that I needed a kite for near zero winds which could fly side by side with a Benson IS in the early morning hours. He did laugh at my request but I was quick to point out not trick but fly equally with a BIS in near zero winds. We then discussed the option of getting two LSs. It will come with a 2PT LS for the lower range and I did request a 3PT LS to give it a wider wind range. Get this ... to 11-12 mph guranteed with no wing fludder! By the way he did mention to me the new Fearless Vented was proven to fly in winds of 4-28 mph with no issues. I have flown and seen the wide wind ranges of the SDs ... I do not doubt anything from this guy. As a concluding note he asked me if I preferred a kite which could Yo-Yo easy in the mid window or double Yo-Yo as he could make the necessary adjustments to the central spine. All I said is make sure the JLs are sharp & clean within the entire wind range ... you already know his answer ...  Wink.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 06:19 PM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
Dolphinboy
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2009, 07:15 PM »

Get this ... to 11-12 mph guranteed with no wing fludder! 

I only fly my SUL Tattoo in about 4mph or less. Usually a lot less. Sure it can take more but the lack of mass makes tricking less fun so I just switch to a standard once the wind picks up.

I bought it with 2pt LSs and made a set of 3pts but I never use the 3s.
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James -
Grants Pass, Oregon
A few kite videos YouTube / Vimeo (Yes, I am a Slacker)
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