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Author Topic: Prism E2 vs. E3  (Read 9182 times)
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Ace
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« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 12:34 AM »

Quote
Thank You Gamelord for your comments on the kite. It is the first time someone talked about the kite OOTB and not with modification to make the kite work.

Yeah I second that, as belated as the praise may be Smiley
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In the bag... Quantum Fire, E2 Ice, Micron Red, Deepspace STD and UL Blue, Nirvana Orange, KFX Red, Mohawk XS yellow.
Gardner
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 09:57 AM »

There is nothing wrong with the E3.  It is what prism claims it is -- an updated, more sophisticated version of the E2.  Yes, I tuned the kite to fly the way I liked.  Mark  Reed designed the kite to fly at sea level but I live at an altifude of 3,700 feet above sea level.  The air here is not as dense and somewhat drier since this is a semi-arid inland region.

To my way of thinking, tuning is different from modifying.  The overall shape of the kite has not been changed. None of the rods were shortened or lengthened.  I did change the spine because it broke, but that was my fault.

BTW, how many people fly Nirvanas without tuning them or making some modification?

Gardner
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JimB
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 11:15 AM »

Back in '03 (always wanted to do that..) everyone and his mother was modding everything trying to figure out what worked, with basically comp kites, to include pitch tricks.

Nirvanas are very amenable to modding, so there have been many bridles, in particular, developed for the kite.

But, at this point, there really is no need to be modding. Most of the kites designed to do roll up based tricks are pretty much there as is right out of the bag.

Bridle tuning is always something to do if you wish. That's not a modification.

I understand that people still like to tinker and mod these things. My question would be in aid of what exactly?

One ought to have a clear idea of what one is after at this point in order to make it worthwhile IMO, unless of course you just like to mod things. As I said earlier: knock yourself out. It's your kite.

Gardiner, in your case, modding for high altitude use makes a lot of sense.

My experience with both the e2 and e3 is that even the included adjustments do little to improve the basic flight of the kite over the stock settings. They do what they are designed to do best right out of the bag, assuming that there have been no QC problems during manufacture.


 OTOH, I did add a QP center tee, glides, and stoppers to my e2, when I had one, to aid in roll ups.  Roll Eyes

The bread and butter kite in the Prism line up at the moment is the Hypnotist IMO.

I'd take one of those over either the e2 or e3, and yes; one would have to add stoppers, glides, and weight to it in order to get the most out of it IMO.

To get the performance benefits associated with a stiffer frame and sail fabric the QP would be the obvious choice from Prism.

the reason I bummed an e3 from Steve was to see for myself what was going on with the kite after hearing all sorts of stuff about how messed up it was.

I will confess that it confirmed my initial hunch which was that there was nothing particularly off on the e3.

It has its quirks, but then that is not all that unusual with Prisms.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 11:44 AM by JimB » Logged
JimB
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2009, 08:15 AM »

Just an amendment..

I have to take back the comment about taking a Hypnotist over the e3.

I've grown rather fond of this one Steve has graciously lent me.

True, it has those caution tape sections, but if just the silhouette of the e3 is considered, it is one of the best looking kites ever designed IMO.

I had to remind myself several times Yesterday that I don't like those caution tape sections as the sun shone through the panels  Roll Eyes

It also flies very nicely, tracks well, fades well, very laid back, without any pull to speak of even in winds around 15mph. It handled what were sometimes difficult winds with greater aplomb than many of the other kites I flew Yeasterday.  Huh

It's not an all out, go for broke, trick machine, not liking to be banged around too hard as it will go a bit oingo boingo, but if you are smooth with your inputs it is really fun and rewarding to fly.

But again, I have to stick to my guns on this not being the kite for e2 fliers.

One of the guys out on the field Yesterday, whom I consider to be the target for this kite - flown a bit, has general control over his kite, wanting to move up into tricking - did not get on with it at all. It seemed sluggish to him. And he has an e2 that he likes as far as I know.

Now, I will try tuning it a bit for him the next time we meet up, but I still think the e3 is a little further up the food chain than the e2.

Which brings up the question: at what point do weights and Yo-Yo stoppers and the rest of it, push a kite past a certain fliers current capabilities?

Is it possible that making these features available just gets between the kite and the intended fliers' enjoyment of flying it at a certain point on the learning curve?

There is a lot of stuff that makes a kite pitch friendly that can also make it harder to get on with.

Pilots, at some level, are always having to compensate for this and that with particular kites. It becomes second nature.

But what about those who have not developed the skill?

I guess you have to start somewhere... OTOH, I don't think it helps the pastime to have fliers dropping close to Two Bills on their first upscale kite and then thinking, "well that wasn't very fun.."

That's not aimed at the e3 exclusively.

Is there a point where you just push them out of the nest? Or is there another road to take in this age of internet flying where newer pilots often do not have anyone to fly with most of the time?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 08:22 AM by JimB » Logged
xuzme720
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 08:54 AM »

I would consider myself strictly a rank amateur when it comes to freestyle tricking. I do however have a ton of experience flying, if you count total years I have flown (there are a lot of years, in between, that i wasn't flying, as well). I jokingly call myself a flailer although my fades seem very elegant and smooth, so maybe somewhere along the line Tongue I have managed to pick up finesse as well. Of everything in the bag, it's 2 of the Prism's that I really like best. At least they are the ones that make me look good. One of those is the E3. The other is my Zephyr. Maybe I am the type of pilot the E3 is aimed at, but I have to say I love flying it and have not changed anything other than the stock, intended, adjustments for wind speed (bridle and stand-off position). Maybe it's just my flying style that cooperates with the E3 rather than clash with it. I do have to adjust from kite to kite, as everyone does, but I never saw any of the horrible characteristics arise that I have read so much about. Maybe it's just that I flew it and loved it before I read it's bad press. But I think it is safe to say, for whatever reason, the E3 is strictly a love it or hate it kite. I love it. All of it. Even the graphics.
JMO FWIW YMMV
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Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
indigo_wolf
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2009, 11:40 AM »

True, it has those caution tape sections

This is what they reminded me of the first time I saw them:

I figure they have been on aircraft wings for a long time, so what the heck.  Wink

if just the silhouette of the e3 is considered, it is one of the best looking kites ever designed IMO.

Big fan of certain kite silhouettes...
Gem/MiniGem, Stranger, Dharma SR, T2 Comp, BV Sonic, E2/E3.... kind of nice to hear that from someone else.

ATB,
Sam
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streamhawk
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2009, 01:02 PM »

For the E2, and to some degree the Gem, it's the somewhat bat shape I've always liked.

Bill
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indigo_wolf
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2009, 01:29 PM »

it's the somewhat bat shape I've always liked.


Shhhhh..... I didn't want to use any of the "b" words... bat, batten, err...umm... bimblethwack  Huh  Very much in need of sleep now.... miles to go yet.

ATB,
Sam

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streamhawk
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2009, 02:40 PM »

well, batten down the hatches and heave ho Sam. 'Bat time for some shuteye then. If only Inspector Gordon would shine the Batman signal, all would be safe from E3's and the like.

Bill
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Kitemac
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2009, 07:20 AM »

Just an amendment..

But again, I have to stick to my guns on this not being the kite for e2 fliers.

One of the guys out on the field Yesterday, whom I consider to be the target for this kite - flown a bit, has general control over his kite, wanting to move up into tricking - did not get on with it at all. It seemed sluggish to him. And he has an e2 that he likes as far as I know.


I was the unnamed individual who did not get on with the E3.  Most of the flying time with the kites I have are the Quantum, Hypnotist, Acrobatx STD and UL, the Addiction and some time with the E2.  The biggest problem I had with the E3 is the lines were going slack all the time which probably made the kite feel sluggish.  There was plenty of wind so this was not the problem.  I would not only limit the E3 not being for the  E2 fliers since I do not have this problem with any of the other kites I mentioned.

I think Steve provided wise advice in steering me toward the E2 since I would be very unhappy with the E3.  It is unfortunate since I really like the E3 in Citrus. 

I guess I will be remembered as the typical Prism pilot without the skills to fly the E3.  Cry
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JimB
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2009, 08:31 AM »

No, That's not it. It is a kite that requires some compensation in flying style in order for it to fly happily.

It's what Kent was referring to as adjusting one's style in order to fly it.

This is not that unusual, but it requires a learned skill which comes with time on the lines.

There is nothing wrong with your skills Kitemac. You are an intermediate flier.

The e3 is, IMO, not an Intermediate kite. It does not hit the same target flier as the e2 as I've said before.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:32 AM by JimB » Logged
RobB
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« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2009, 07:32 AM »

OK, I'm one of those people that had a terrible time with my E3 when I first got it. It didn't fly like any other Prism kite that I have or have had. Really seemed to be dead on the lines, even with plenty of wind. I spent more time than I usually do on a kite that I don't like, because it looked so cool in the air. I ended up using the bridle mods that Gandner and DaveH came up with, as interpreted by Jared. Jared made a nice photo documentation of his mods on another forum. He also had the same opinion of the kite as I did, before and after the mods.

I flew mine yesterday, and after 5 hours on the lines (3+ hours of test & tune), I can say that I finally enjoy the kite, not only for it's looks, but now for the nice 540s, axels and Jacob's Ladders. It's slow and heavy feeling still, but that makes it easy to time your inputs. I was flying it in ~5mph, and it required a bunch of light wind flying technique, it would really be happier with a little more wind.
Thanks to those that spent time coming up with different suggestions for adjustments, and also those that kept saying that the kite's not that bad, just get used to it. My E3 has been saved from being a dust collector and will probably get flown quite a bit...

 Smiley
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DaveH
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« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2009, 08:59 AM »

I've had my E3 since last spring and have really grown to like it.  My winds tend to be very light or around 8 to 12 and gusty.  This kite has become my go to knock around kite for most days when the wind is blowing.  I've flown it a bunch in the stock configuration and it was fine.  I have shortened the outhauls a bit simply because I like the way it spins better in that configuration.  I currently have the citrus and like the kite so much I'm thinking of getting another one as a backup in graphite.
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Kitemac
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2009, 12:14 PM »

DaveH:

If you are the same DaveH with the video "Having Fun with the E3"  on Youtube I could see why you like it so much.  You have no problems flying the kite and your skills are very good.  It is also in my favorite E3 color Citrus.

Maybe you could share the video with the forum so they can see what a properly flown E3 can do. 
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JimB
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« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2009, 12:28 PM »

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg18103#new
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