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Author Topic: jacobs ladder  (Read 4600 times)
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mikenchico
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 06:39 PM »

Not to be argumentative but I think you do need some slack to allow the nose to rotate up into the fade after the first 270 degrees of rotation, not too much since you need to catch & hold the fade but if there is none you will choke the rotation off at 270* in a nose down position and preform that other well known trick, the Lawn Dart.

I'm no expert on JL's so correct me if I'm wrong, but at 270* the kite is facing you, lines on the face, without slack it won't roll but will start to fly.


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tpatter
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 07:16 PM »

I think you are right - almost a "lack of any tension" which is technically "slack".

Sort of like the difference between slack to catch a fade versus offhand slack for a multi-lazys.  In the first case, you want just enough and no more or you will not be able to catch the kite.  In second case, you can actually drop a line and you can still do it, so you can't really over-do the slack.
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DaveH
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 07:18 PM »

Good stuff, Mike.  Wink
I find in a flare to fade the amount of slack is kite dependent. For the half lazy inthe JL, I "unroll" under tension, and the momentum created by the pull gets the kite all the way through to the fade position without having to introduce slack.  But there are many ways to do all tricks and I'm sure yours works too.  I've just always pulled smoothly and watched the kite roatate through to the fade position.  I've never had the kite catch the wind and lawn dart at this point of the JL.  I also tend to try and do this one smoothly and haven't had any trouble catching/tending the fade.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 07:42 PM by DaveH » Logged
DaveH
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 07:44 PM »

Reading tpatters post, which happened at the same time as mine, maybe lack of tension is truly it.  His JLs look great, so there you go.  but to offer another option, all I've ever done is pull smoothly and its never let me down.  I guess all that really matters is that you do what you need to to get the trick to look right to you.
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tpatter
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 09:34 PM »

 I think you explain it well dave when you call it a smooth pull.  Lots of folks tend to try and yank it around with a big pull, which is where the lawn dart comes in!  Smiley   

Different kites do it differently for sure (although the basics are the same).  My Fearless can go either way - a very slow easy pull around or I can just pop it and the momentum will flip it over - usually its something in the middle.  It's much harder on the Shadow, that one likes to do them at one speed and its a managed pull all the way around.

Another thing I've noticed is how much different kites move vertically when doing the trick.  Some just flip around and can stay right in place (like the Fearless, Nirvana, SF, etc).  Others (usually higher aspect ratio) take a good deal of time to flip to the fade position and often loose height at the same time.  Those are much harder to keep "stable".

Anyhow, great combo/trick - definitely my favorite to do.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2009, 02:05 PM »

Yep Dave a "Lack of tension" is what we were both looking for there, in low to normal winds the kite should be moving towards you just a bit from the nose down position through the roll onto its back creating the slack it needs. Your smooth pull then catches the fade rather then having too much "Slack" which can cause trouble catching the fade. In higher winds you may have to add some "Lack of tension" with some arm movent or a step forward.

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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 04:40 PM »

I notice that some pilot's JL can stay in the same spot in the air, not losing altitude at all..

For me.. just one rung of it and it is already a feet off the ground (low wind, probably 1-2mph and I am flying airwave UL).. any tips? Or is it just the wind condition? I reckon that if i stay in the fade position a tad longer, it may just compensate for the altitude.. but then, the chaining effect of this trick is lost.
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ko
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 04:47 PM »

hi chrispie if you think it is lack of wind you will need to walk backwards although i have found that as my JL smooths out and gets more consistant i can control if the kite loses,gains or stay's in the same place at least most of the time hope this helps KO
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 06:50 PM »

I notice that some pilot's JL can stay in the same spot in the air, not losing altitude at all..

For me.. just one rung of it and it is already a feet off the ground (low wind, probably 1-2mph and I am flying airwave UL).. any tips? Or is it just the wind condition? I reckon that if i stay in the fade position a tad longer, it may just compensate for the altitude.. but then, the chaining effect of this trick is lost.

I think it is kite-dependent.  Some kites fall pretty quickly, others can actually gain height during the JL.  Once you spend some time with a specific kite, you adjust to how it wants to do them.
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2009, 07:59 PM »

i think what threw me is were mr.G states that he is not worried about right hand left hand sequence for the sake of the tutorial
That was because at the time I had a hard time properly alternating the rungs. I've since rectified that problem. Probably should have just left that test out of the final version.  Roll Eyes  Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2010, 03:23 AM »

i find that when i do the JL, the line always snag at the tip at the half susan. Is it a must that if im initiating the susan with my right hand, the left has to move forward a little for slack?

OFten my susan doesnt come right and turn into a fade instead! Wat am i doing wrong?

I reckon that the kite is not dipped deep enough into the turtle...
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