GWTW Forum
October 24, 2014, 06:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: cascade  (Read 6727 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
chrispie
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 66

Location: Singapore

« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2009, 04:45 AM »

ok.. just an update..

Today tried Benjai's method with a Quantum Pro and it worked like a charm. Did my first cascade!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Logged

Decide . Commit . Succeed
My Poisons:
-Eolo Genesis
-Flying Wings Airwave
-Widowmaker Std Custom
-Talon UL
-Talon Std
mikenchico
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2173


Location: ‪‪‪‪‪‎Chico, Ca

WWW
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2009, 10:04 AM »

Those are some nice cascade's in JR's vid, notice how the kite starts and ends each rotation almost perfectly horizontal on both sides. Something I struggle with.

An old terminology lessen? A Cascade properly falls through the center of the window, Tricks Party definition

Quote
"The CASCADE is a series of reversing, descending HALF AXELS. The trick is entered from a horizontal line of flight, nose pointing straight right (3:00) or straight left (9:00).With each HALF AXEL, the kite alternates between the 3:00 and 9:00 positions, ideally pausing a moment in each position before the next reversing HALF AXEL. The kite must descend through the window, and the sequence must contain at least three HALF AXELS. Ideally this trick is initiated at the top of the window and descends all the way to the bottom, and the kite exits in a straight line, in the direction that the nose pointed last.

KEY ELEMENTS: ►Horizontal entry. ►Minimum 3 HALF AXELS. ►Straight-line descent. ►Constant speed."

When the kite remains at a constant height or rises the trick was called a Fountain, Up the Fountain, or Rising Cascade - from Pete  Peters

Quote
"Fountain/Up the Fountain/Rising Cascade

This is a series of Half Axels like the Cascade but this one does not lose altitude like the Cascade, but actually stays stationary and/or rises up! This one is a combination of the Half Axels series (Cascades) along with a "pop up" move. The easiest way to learn this one is to practice the Cascade a lot. You will soon learn that in between Half Axels (Cascades) you give the rotating wing a slight "pop" with an arm motion that goes from neutral up and out, which helps it along and actually pulls that wing up, similar to the pop up move from a Pancaked position. You will find that timing and adjusting that according to wind speed is very crucial. This "pop up" move is also similar to the one used in the Continuous Axel."

Keep it up, but don't get frustrated trying to do just the one thing, do the things you can do to keep it fun. Do a lot of half axels to keep that feeling active. It will just happen one day since it's such a rhythm based trick, but when it isn't working don't train your muscles to the wrong rhythm, take a break, have some fun, then go back.

Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
benjai
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


Location:

« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2009, 04:22 PM »

ok.. just an update..

Today tried Benjai's method with a Quantum Pro and it worked like a charm. Did my first cascade!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Grin
Logged
lylenc
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 254

Location: Walla Walla, WA

« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2009, 05:53 PM »

I learned the cascade on a Gemini, which only required one pop on each side. I had a little difficulty switching to the two-pop method for other kites - JimB gave me the answers I needed to make the two-pop method work.

I think it would have been better for me to have started with the two-pop method when learning the cascade. The two-pop method gives you more versatility, even if you don't need two pops for a kite. For example, you can throw more forceful flares during the cascade to recover ground position a step or two at a time.
Logged

Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
ko
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1109


Location: hermosa beach CA

« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2009, 09:59 PM »

jim, if you would please throw in a little help we would appreciate it. i might be persuaded into removing the post of my backyard if you will  thanx ko  Grin
Logged

have fun kurt
Dolphinboy
Trade Count: (+15)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


Location: Grants Pass, OR

« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2009, 11:29 AM »

I also originally learned the Cascade on a kite that did one pop cascades. That didn't transfer to other kites well and I struggled for a long time before I mastered the Cascade.

Think about the inputs before hand. It's one of those tricks that you need to watch & react and not think or you'll be behind.

You can try doing reversing 1/2 Axels and shorten the space up between them until you eliminate it altogether.

Try to get your hands on a kite that two input Cascades easy (Mantis, Widow Maker UL, Sea Devil etc) Although once you learn it, you'll Cascade just about any kite, some are just much easier to Cascade. Super pitchy kites can get away from you at first.

Avoid the one pop method until you've got the two input Cascade down.

An UL may help slow it down & help you keep up.

Of course, flying with someone that knows the trick would be a HUGE benefit.

And then time will slow down. Once you feel it and see it, it's like the time to react just slows down as you watch the kite move thru the Cascade. Then you've got it.

Logged


James -
Grants Pass, Oregon
A few kite videos YouTube / Vimeo (Yes, I am a Slacker)
tpatter
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1991

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2009, 12:09 PM »

good advice.  Much of the initial success depends on the kite and flyer combination.

My son picked them up pretty quickly on the QPro - that kite loves to cascade.  I struggled with them until I finally got them on my Shadow - nice and slow ones initially.  Once you get the feel and timing of it, its easy to transfer to just about any kite.


Logged

6 kite tom
JimB
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+6)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1151


Location: NYC

« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2009, 09:53 PM »

Oh.

Me?


Okay.

Let me go back through the thread and see where we are...




jim, if you would please throw in a little help we would appreciate it. i might be persuaded into removing the post of my backyard if you will  thanx ko  Grin
Logged
JimB
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+6)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1151


Location: NYC

« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2009, 11:34 PM »

First of all:

A lot of good info in this thread.

Second:

Forgive me if I repeat a lot of what has already been written.

I will try to go through it with a slightly different take.

Definitions.. just so we are clear:

A cascade is descending by definition. Having said that, there are varieties.

Stationary cascade (puddle)

Rising cascade (fountain)

NB - do not use the term "Up The Fountain", otherwise mr. zipman will seek you out wherever you are and beat you with whatever kite you happen to be flying at the time. I will pay him to do it. And pay his air fare. Just don't.  Angry Wink

Once you learn the basic drill you will, through very simple adjustments, be able to do any of the Three types so, for now, just put it out of your mind.

Here's what it looks like:

>-<

Start off nose facing right.

Then you are going to put the kite into a pancake nose away.

Then you are going to stand the kite back up with the nose facing left.

Then repeat, etc..

One of the ways to practice this is to start in a tip stand (yes, that's right on the ground), lay the kite belly down with the nose directly away from you, and then pop the kite back up onto the opposite tip.

This will not get you the perfect cascade. It probably wont even look very good. What it will do is give you an idea of the range of motion the particular kite you fly needs in order to complete a cascade.

Just to be clear: even if it looks like crap; even if you only get part way through, it will help you to get in the ball park as far as how much slack to give for the pancake, how big an input is needed to stand the kite back up, etc.. oh just humor me. It'll help even if you only do it a couple of times. Mainly it saves you having to worry about flying the kite while you are getting an idea..

Kite in the air:

Nose facing right - pop the upper wing with your left hand - give slack with both hands to lay the kite down in the pancake nose away - pop the right hand and take up slack with the left hand to stand the kite back up facing left - pop the RIGHT hand and give slack with both hands to lay the kite back down in the pancake - pop the left hand and take up slack with the right hand to stand the kite back up facing right - pop the LEFT hand and give slack with both hands to lay the kite back into the pancake position...

did you get that?

>Left - Right < RIGHT - Left > LEFT - Right < RIGHT - Left > LEFT -   

Some blather on slack:

You often hear the Phrase "fly the lines not the kite" and it's good advice as far as it goes. The problem with "fly the lines not the kite" is it doesn't, in fact, take into account the kite you are flying.

The kite you are flying has everything to do with how you go about "flying the lines".

One of the biggest failure points for tricks in general is not observing what the kite needs in order to complete a move. They are all different. Some need to be tricked slow, some fast. Some need a lot of slack, some don't. Figure it out.

Take it easy. Relax. Observe what happens. Don't be in a rush to give the next input. Let the move develop. If it over rotates, "over-develops", well then fine. Now you know. "Oops, that went too far" You will never know what is too far unless you go there. Go there, then back off.

A long winded way of saying your kite may not need slack with both hands for the pancake, it may not need any extra slack at all, it may develop tons of slack on its very own... and the same with the other elements of the cascade. IOW, it will vary.

And a long winded way of saying you need to move or not move as dictated by the wind, the kite you are flying, how tall you are, how short you are, your strengths and weaknesses as a flier... it all figures in.

A word or Two on the variations:

Cascade.. To descend, it may only require that you move in on the kite, or cascade more slowly. A generally sure fire descent can be had by pancaking with the nose down to some degree.

Puddle.. Again movement can be your friend, when going for that stationary cascade, but so can making sure you are going truly flat in the pancake.

Fountain.. Rising cascades work best if you allow the nose to go high in the pancake. Also, rhythm and emphasis, on the inputs, different for different kites, will help you to get the cascade to rise.

Maybe a bit over the top.. anyway.

HTH


           
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 12:29 AM by JimB » Logged
benjai
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


Location:

« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2009, 01:03 AM »

Lots of good stuff here. I'll just add something abotu one-pop vs two-pop cascades, and in doing so echo something Jim said above.
The cascade is a rhythm trick - so the biggest advance you can make is to actually do a cascade, even if it's only got two half-axels, and is scruffy as hell. Then you can refine it. So, I fully agree that the two-pop technique is more universal, but if finding a one-pop kite means you "get it", then I'd say that was better than struggling on with a kite that needs a two-pop technique.
I learnt the cascade on a DS, a kite which only needs a one-pop technique. However, I quickly found that it  was much harder to keep the cascade undercontrol usign this method, and that using a two pop allows you more opportunity for corrections.
Jim also makes a good point about practicing on the ground - coin tosses are similar to the cascade. If you can cascade coin tosses, just do them in the air and voila - a cascade...
Logged
JimB
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+6)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1151


Location: NYC

« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2009, 01:18 AM »

That is so funny.

I was going to end with, "Or just get a Gem and sling it to and fro".

That kite puts in the flare and stand-it-back-up all on its own.

All you have to do is pop the lines.

 Cheesy
Logged
ko
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1109


Location: hermosa beach CA

« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2009, 10:11 AM »

thanx again all ..jim it has never snowed in hermosa but it is today Grin thank you ko
Logged

have fun kurt
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!