GWTW Forum
October 21, 2014, 11:38 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Sutton and Jordan Air lifters  (Read 2979 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Michel
Trade Count: (+12)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 511


Location: France

« on: November 26, 2009, 01:47 PM »

Hi all,

Who knows these lifters ?

Are they better than the Peter Lynn Pilots ?

Where is it possible to buy them (by PM please) ?

I have to lift some inflatable kites, one or two like on the picture in attached.

What would be the right size for a lifter for these single line kites ?

Many thanks in advance for your help my friends !  Wink

P.S. : the lifter on the picture in not mine.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged
thief
Moderator
Trade Count: (+25)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3646


Location: North Shore of Massa-WHO-setts

WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 04:12 PM »

suttons and jordans are nicely designed foils.....easy to fly....can lift very well.....
you could easily use any size of thee to act as a lifter kite......are they better per se?Huh  your choice...

some line laundry out there flys on it's own and having a lifter above it helps to tame the laundry a bit - like those Martin Lester divers.......some line laundry needs to have a bigger lifter because the laundry does not fly on it's own - ie spinsocks......
you just need to rigger out what you have and how much lift it will need to size up the lifter....

personally I would go for a Jordan....I like the look of them better......but that is me....
Logged

Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
RenoKiteKids
Trade Count: (0)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


Location:

« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 06:50 AM »

The Jordan or Suttons are not really lifters but they can lift some.  If you want the best lifters, Gombergs Mega Sled 75 Sq. ft, or Premiers Mega Sled 81 can lift anything you have.  Premier also makes a smaller 36 I think.
Logged
DWayne
Trade Count: (+10)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1355


Location: Corning, Ca.

« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 08:15 AM »

The Pilots, like the Bulldogs the Pilots were designed after, are great lifters. And they'll fly in more wind than a lot of other lifters will.

Denny
Logged

I always wanted to be a procrastinator..........
I just never got around to it.
ainokea
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 125


Location:

« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 08:32 PM »

If you could find someone that's willing to sell you their Hagaman, at least a 100', you could
lift just about anything. But then again, I doubt anyone would sell theirs, I've been searching for years
myself.
Personally, I would use a Sutton. I've seen a Jordan and a Sutton side by side in flight. When the winds dropped, so did the Jordan. The Sutton was still flying. 
Logged

Take a S.W.A.G. at it.
Fore Check
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 79

Location:

« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 04:13 AM »

Jordans, Suttons, Foils....

They all seem to have their place and it boils down to user preference.

I don't own a Peter Lynn Pilot (foil), but I've seen a *bunch* of them - and they all seem to work great for exactly what you're wanting:  lifting and piloting show pieces.

I've seen pilots fly pretty well in some pretty fluky wind too. 

*shrug*
Logged
DGomberg
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 124

Location:

« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 06:25 AM »

Sutton and Jordans are Flowforms. Pilots are Parafoils. Flowforms have roughly 25% less lift per square foot than Parafoils. And Parafoils can be adjusted or tuned for different winds (which i never bother with).

On the other hand, Suttons have less complex bridles.

Even with relatively less lift, a large Flowform (60, 125 or larger) is going to generate enough lift for what you want to do. When calculating size, remember to discount the "notch" in Suttons. The 125 size refers to the orverall dimensions as if it were a rectangle,

Hope that helps.

David

PS - we sell Suttons, SkyForms, Pilots, and come January, Bulldogs too. Product made by GKPI is avialable from GWTW.
Logged
Michel
Trade Count: (+12)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 511


Location: France

« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 02:59 AM »

Hi all !

Many thanks for your replies.  Wink


Sutton and Jordans are Flowforms. Pilots are Parafoils.

... but I don't understand the difference between "Flowform" and "Parafoil".

In attached :

- Picture 1 : Air Jordan Flowform
- Picture 2 : Sutton Flowform
- Picture 3 : Pilot Parafoil

That's not similar kites ?  Roll Eyes

Do you have a definition for Flowform and Parafoil ? (and for "sled" too).

Thanks in advance for your help my friends.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged
Fore Check
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 79

Location:

« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 03:59 AM »

I am no expert, but a very rudimentary or basic description of the difference between a flowform and a parafoil that I recall reading is this: 

A flowform, having a vented trailing edge, is kinda like a pair of sleds that are stacked and held together by the ribs.  Sure, the rib shape is important and gives the sum of the two pieces an airfoil shape, but it generates its lift due to the flow of air through the body of the kite (from the front openings through the trailing edge)

A parafoil has a closed trailing edge and the sum of the parts is a soft wing airfoil shape, with the lift generated by the action across the entire shape (like the wing of a airplane)

--

Again, that's oversimplified, but it gets the thinking pointed the right way.
Logged
DGomberg
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 124

Location:

« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 05:59 AM »

Look at the keels and bridles in your photos.

The parafoils have three sets (rows) of bridles. The flowforms have one set.

David
Logged
Michel
Trade Count: (+12)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 511


Location: France

« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 01:29 PM »

I am no expert, but a very rudimentary or basic description of the difference between a flowform and a parafoil that I recall reading is this: [...]

A parafoil has a closed trailing edge and the sum of the parts is a soft wing airfoil shape, with the lift generated by the action across the entire shape (like the wing of a airplane)

Are you sure ?

I have a PL Pilot Parafoil with two about 3" opening (holes) on both sides of the trailing edge. An error perhaps ?  Roll Eyes Must I close them ?

Look at the keels and bridles in your photos.

The parafoils have three sets (rows) of bridles. The flowforms have one set.

OK David but I thought there were others differences ? 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 08:18 AM by Tataouine » Logged
Fore Check
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 79

Location:

« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 03:49 PM »


Are you sure ?

I have a PL Pilot Parafoil with two about 3" openning (holes) on both sides of the trailing edge. An error perhaps ?  Roll Eyes Must I close them ?


Nope - not an expert; so I wouldn't take what I said definitively. I would *not* close - particularly if you purchased the kite with them and it flies well.

Thinking about it, however, those vents - while serving a purpose - probably aren't big enough for a significant amount of flow of air between the skins (just thinking back to the generality that I posted above)
Logged
kiteguy
Trade Count: (+1)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59

Location:

« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 08:08 AM »

There are more differences than just the # of bridles.

Airfoil shape, for one.  Flowform is much deeper than the parafoil.
Leading edge openings, for another.  The flowform has larger openings, quite a bit larger, actually.  I think that the high point on the flowform profile is further forward as well.  I have to admit that I have not made many flowform kites.  (two?)

Trailing edge vent...I have made several Pilot parafoil kites of various sizes.  I have vented at the trailing edge sides as you mention, and have made them unvented as well.  I can't really see much difference in flying.

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!