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Author Topic: Nirvana SE Standard vs Skyshark?  (Read 2366 times)
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lasapcheong
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« on: December 13, 2009, 06:04 PM »

Hi,

Looking at the flight difference between the 2 different incarnations of the Nirvana SE Standard.

The Standard version (P300 Lower Spreader, 6mm LLE and ULE, 6mm Spine, 6mm US)
The Skyshark version (5PT Lower Spreader, P200 LLE, P300 ULE, 6mm Spine, 6mm US)

Precision capabilities, trick wise, Low and High wind range, drive, spinnability, flatspinnability, pitchability, Cometeability, turtledeepability. Anything. Any differences between the 2?

I don't wanna think that the SkyShark version is better because its more expensive. There must be some qualities in the Standard version that causes R-Sky to produce this other framing version and put it in production.

Thanks!
Darryl
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dragonfly
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 05:11 AM »

How about breakability?

Inside ferruling like SkySharks fares better than outside aluminum ferrules.
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indigo_wolf
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 08:35 AM »

How about breakability?

Inside ferruling like SkySharks fares better than outside aluminum ferrules.

Strange.... I would have thought it would have been the exact opposite.

ATB,
Sam
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zippy8
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 09:14 AM »

I don't wanna think that the SkyShark version is better because its more expensive.
I'd hope that it was. Why pay more for an inferior product ?

Mike.
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JimB
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 09:16 AM »

The bog stock NSE has a single piece leading edge.

It's the same frameset that comes in the bog stock Krystal FX.

These fare well when it comes to durability.

I've never broken one anyway.
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fworley
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 09:28 AM »

The bog stock NSE has a single piece leading edge.

It's the same frameset that comes in the bog stock Krystal FX.

These fare well when it comes to durability.

I've never broken one anyway.

Cosmics come with 6mm leading edges too ... mine are externally ferruled (cheap shipping from Europe) and I've never broke a spar.

-Frazer
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JimB
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 09:39 AM »

Correction:

The Bog stock NSE comes with P300 lower spreaders as opposed to the P200 lower spreaders in the KFX.
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steve.hobart
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 06:07 PM »

I've had both. I could not differentiate between the flight / trickability characteristics too much at my level of skill, although the skyshark frame was stiffer. The sky shark model had a slightly lower wind range from my brief experience with it.

Biggest issue for me was that the "bog stock" had the single leading edge which was really inconvenient for me for travel, whereas the shyshark one had the common two piece ferruled leading edge.

The spine and upper spreader and tail weight are the same for both kites from memory.

cheers

steve
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lasapcheong
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 06:40 PM »

I've had both. I could not differentiate between the flight / trickability characteristics too much at my level of skill, although the skyshark frame was stiffer. The sky shark model had a slightly lower wind range from my brief experience with it.

Biggest issue for me was that the "bog stock" had the single leading edge which was really inconvenient for me for travel, whereas the shyshark one had the common two piece ferruled leading edge.

The spine and upper spreader and tail weight are the same for both kites from memory.

cheers

steve

Thanks Steve. At least somebody answered the question to my point. Frazer is right, my Cosmic's come with 6mm LEs and an external metal ferrule. 6mm LEs can feel a little bit hairy in higher wind (they seemed to flex and shudder too much) and aggressive tip stabs are risky. I broke a LLE near the tip before in high wind on my Cosmic with a mistimed too aggressive stab. It seems to me the failure point near the external ferrule isn't really an isssue as long as it doesn't slip.

Anyway back to my original question. I'm still trying to figure out why R-Sky would want to come up with 2 different framing options for this kite. Most boutique kite consumers who is going to spend “big dollar” on kites is not going be swayed into a cheaper option since they are already going to throw down serious money for it. Cost of spars aside I still think there is a legitimate technical/"feel" reason to come up with more than 1 version. Too bad they are not as forthcoming with the exact differences.

-Darryl
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fidelio
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 07:40 PM »

well the nirvana being a kite some people fly as a ballet kite and some fly as a freestyle kite, wouldn't the stiffer frame be of benefit to the trick flyer but not the figure flyer?

hopefully someone with more experience will add their opinion but to me it would seem the softer frame would smooth out any bumps in the wind while flying lines, but would respond to input more slowly, and be a bit sloppy on multiple quick inputs in opposite directions.
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Craig
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 02:01 AM »

I'm still trying to figure out why R-Sky would want to come up with 2 different framing options for this kite. Most boutique kite consumers who is going to spend “big dollar” on kites is not going be swayed into a cheaper option since they are already going to throw down serious money for it.

There were 4 versions available when they first came out, Structil, SkyShark, Icone and AeroStuff, now there are 3 since RSky dropped AS. Only Roger could really answer your question but IMO. it comes down to perceived improvements in performance and that cost's extra $$. Having 3 kites at 3 different price points isn't such a bad idea, even kite fliers buy on cost.........
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lasapcheong
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 02:26 AM »

I'm still trying to figure out why R-Sky would want to come up with 2 different framing options for this kite. Most boutique kite consumers who is going to spend “big dollar” on kites is not going be swayed into a cheaper option since they are already going to throw down serious money for it.

There were 4 versions available when they first came out, Structil, SkyShark, Icone and AeroStuff, now there are 3 since RSky dropped AS. Only Roger could really answer your question but IMO. it comes down to perceived improvements in performance and that cost's extra $$. Having 3 kites at 3 different price points isn't such a bad idea, even kite fliers buy on cost.........

I actually dropped a note to Roger and gotten his reply :

"I don't know your flight level, but for sure the Nse with Skyshark frame is better, get also a better windrange."

That's about it. I really wish for a more informed reply with some tangible differences to weigh between the 2, apart from simply just a price point perspective. Better windrange can mean a few things. 

On a related note, does anybody have any idea which version will be lighter weight wise? I'm not too good with weight differences between the spars.

-Darryl 
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JimB
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 08:23 AM »

Well, either the Skyshark or Icone version will be lighter.

By how much.. good question.

You have to figure the 6mm LE is close to 40gm.

I'd guess the difference would be close to 10gm per leading edge, although there is no ferrule used with the 6mm LE so maybe not even that much.

I've since flown a bog stock version of the NSE and have to say that the low wind range on the kite is pretty dang good.

Remember, that at one time Roger used single piece 6mm leading edges as std on quite a few kites.

It is a decent framing option.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 08:38 AM by JimB » Logged
Allen Carter
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 04:18 PM »

I think my Opie had a one piece LE. Great kite.

To try to answer the main question a bit more in general terms (having no experience with the NSE) I can say this,

The pultruded kite will weigh more and be more flexible. The P300s are actually a bit stiffer overall, but less stiff at the T than 5PTs, so the over all impression of a kite with straight spreaders is that it's a bit looser. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Generally speaking, a lighter stiffer frame will improve the wind range at both ends. A bit more float at the low end and a but more solid at the top.

Generally a lighter, stiffer frame will be more responsive to input.

All that said, I've had kites that were just plain better with pultruded LEs. The extra weight gives the kite more momentum. It spins faster. The sail may not be so tight, etc.

I've always found P200s to be far more durable than generic 6MM pultrude or Avia .2300

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Steve
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 04:24 PM »

Quote
I think my Opie had a one piece LE. Great kite.

Correct.

On both counts.
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