GWTW Forum
August 29, 2014, 09:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Dual Quantums?  (Read 3337 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Shamrocky
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25

Location: Massachusetts

« on: March 18, 2009, 05:58 PM »

I have been thinking about taking the two Prism Quantums I have and putting four link lines between the two kites and flying them as a pair in low winds.  Not quite a mini-train?

First of all would it work, with more sail in less wind, even though there is the weight of the spars?

I was thinking about attaching the link lines on the leading edges below the APA?
I am not sure about how long these lines should be?
Also would 100 # bridle line be enough, since there would be 4 lines?

Thanks for any input or ideas.

Shamrocky
Logged
Will Sturdy
Trade Count: (+3)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 204


Location: The Boondocks, Maine

WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 07:14 PM »

You should copy this thread while it's still up... http://www.gwtw-kites.com/forum2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15307
Might be something of interest in there.

There may be other topical threads there, take a look through the archives while you can.
Logged
kiteking
Trade Count: (+10)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


Location: Brookings, OR)

WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 08:21 PM »

I have a 4-stack of Quantums and they fly very nice, and pull hard in a strong breeze.

I recommend you attach pigtails at all five bridle points then attach the train lines with larks heads. This makes it easy to breakdown the kites, you can leave the train lines on the back kite but by having the ability to remove the lines easily help for repairs or if you want to fly both single. I use a short piece of line between the bridle attachment points on the following kites to get them out of the way, but easy to remove.

The stack lines should be about 80-90% of the length of the leading edges, but this is not critical, what is critical is that they should be exactly the same length. Except for tuning as described below.

I don't know about only two kites but on my trains I shorten the lower leading edge train lines of the last kite about 1 inch to reduce the last kite from wobbling.

100# should be fine, I recommend using old fly lines if available, then you wont have any stretching.

A few of my trains can be seen here

Another tuning tip, if the kites are pulling too hard, lower the bridle points a little till it feels good.

The kites together do require more wind to fly, but not alot, thats why it a good idea to be able to remove the lead kite if there is not enough wind for the stack.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 08:34 PM by kiteking » Logged

* *
"Wind to your back, Kite in the sky."

MikeM
Brookings, OR  - KP 4-11

* *
#518  -    #110883 -

Shamrocky
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25

Location: Massachusetts

« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 10:32 AM »

Thank you Kiteking,

Lots of great information.  I loved your pictures and they showed me where to attach line #5.   I was thinking about using pig tails to attach the link lines.  Glad you agreed.

I need a little help understanding this comment of yours

Another tuning tip, if the kites are pulling too hard, lower the bridle points a little till it feels good.

Are you talking about changing where the link lines are attached to each of the kites in the train here?  That sounds like a great way to get things out of line.

Or

Are you talking about making an adjustment on the bridle on the front kite?

Thanks for your help. Smiley

Shamrocky
Logged
kiteking
Trade Count: (+10)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


Location: Brookings, OR)

WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 01:06 PM »

The adjustment in question is for the front kite bridle, as with a single kite the stronger the wind the lower the bridle. 

This comes from the same rule for any kite, the higher the wind the lower the bridle. You can adjust for low winds by raising the bridle point, I don't recommend lower wind adjustment for a stack,  cause they just need more wind.

I like to mark the original bridle point with a sharpie then adjust from that point, a little at a time.

One of the new ideas I am working on with my rev stack is making one pigtail at each attachment point and then attach the front and rear train lines to the same pigtail. My hope is that the strain on the the stack will be on the line and not on the kite frame. I hope to devise a way to attach the second kite to the bridle and again relive the strain on the frame.

On my newer, longer trains I have made my train lines double the length (plus 1.5 - 2 inch for attaching). I take the even number kites (2,4,6) and center the line (at attachment points) and use a Double  Constrictor knot, now the strain is more in the line and less on the frame. On the odd number kites I use the same method for the pigtail (which is just a short length extending front and back) with a knot at the end to attach the larks head.

In the early days (80's and 90's) fliers of large stacks would fabricate a "ghost" kite, which was just a sturdy frame that was bridled and acted as a first kite.

Just as a note I have never used stronger than 150# fly lines, and the only breackage I experienced was a couple of years ago with 20 year old lines.  One line broke about a foot from the end, I equalized them and continue to fly with them today.

I hear a lot of people recommend 200# and above for trains, my thought is I would rather break a line than break the kites.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 01:08 PM by kiteking » Logged

* *
"Wind to your back, Kite in the sky."

MikeM
Brookings, OR  - KP 4-11

* *
#518  -    #110883 -

Steve
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+39)
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1375


Location: Orangevale, CA

WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 03:19 PM »

Quote
Another tuning tip, if the kites are pulling too hard, lower the bridle points a little till it feels good.
Doesn't adjusting the the bridle lower increase the drag and reduce lift?
Logged

Steve ... Ancient One
-look to the sky with imagination, grasp the wind with outstretched arms and take flight
Kantaxel
Trade Count: (+14)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 891


Location: Bothell, WA

« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 04:03 PM »

The adjustment in question is for the front kite bridle, as with a single kite the stronger the wind the lower the bridle. 

This comes from the same rule for any kite, the higher the wind the lower the bridle. You can adjust for low winds by raising the bridle point, I don't recommend lower wind adjustment for a stack,  cause they just need more wind.


Lowering the bridle on a dualie will increase pull and slow the kite.  When adjusting the bridle after the winds have gone past the kite's middle range you should again go to the low wind setting or higher to bleed air off the bottom of the kite and reduce pull. This also increases drive.

(taken from the old Prism Web site aka Mark Reed)
Logged

Kant Fly......might just as well buy!
Shamrocky
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25

Location: Massachusetts

« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 05:02 PM »


Lowering the bridle on a dualie will increase pull and slow the kite.  When adjusting the bridle after the winds have gone past the kite's middle range you should again go to the low wind setting or higher to bleed air off the bottom of the kite and reduce pull. This also increases drive.

(taken from the old Prism Web site aka Mark Reed)

So, if I have a range of 3-30mph for my kite, when the winds get up to 15-18mph I should be moving the bridle points up, as if the kite was flying in low winds?

Shamrocky Roll Eyes
Logged
Kantaxel
Trade Count: (+14)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 891


Location: Bothell, WA

« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 05:30 PM »

That's what we do................The kite will speed up, but you'll save linesets and framing parts.....................When we first discovered bridle settings, (about a year after we started flying) we were trying to fly some pair figures with some ALPHAs in about 12 MPH.  I thought I'd set the bridles heavy, (by now figuring I was an expert Cool) and move them on both kites about a half inch down. Embarrassed   Lips sealed  The first time we went around each other's lines we broke both lines on both linesets 85' X 150# Lazer Pro Gold.

We now have four sets of short linesets Shocked

Jim
Logged

Kant Fly......might just as well buy!
kiteking
Trade Count: (+10)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


Location: Brookings, OR)

WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 11:40 PM »

I apologize I had my adjustments backwards, the higher the wind the higher the bridle, Damn I hate getting old.

Logged

* *
"Wind to your back, Kite in the sky."

MikeM
Brookings, OR  - KP 4-11

* *
#518  -    #110883 -

Steve
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+39)
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1375


Location: Orangevale, CA

WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 11:52 PM »

Quote
Damn I hate getting old.

I hear ya brother!
Logged

Steve ... Ancient One
-look to the sky with imagination, grasp the wind with outstretched arms and take flight
JimB
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+6)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1130


Location: NYC

« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 12:15 AM »

Up to a point, that's what you want.

When the wind gets stupid though, it becomes a matter of protecting the kite.

Quote
Another tuning tip, if the kites are pulling too hard, lower the bridle points a little till it feels good.
Doesn't adjusting the the bridle lower increase the drag and reduce lift?
Logged
Kantaxel
Trade Count: (+14)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 891


Location: Bothell, WA

« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2009, 12:43 AM »

Quote
Damn I hate getting old.

I hear ya brother!


Et Tu's Brothers
Logged

Kant Fly......might just as well buy!
Shamrocky
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25

Location: Massachusetts

« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 01:00 PM »

Great discussion here.  What about adding a wind brake between the flying lines to slow down the kite?  Roll Eyes

Shamrocky Smiley
Logged
kiten00b
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 04:26 PM »

for stacks I usually set the front kite's bridle a bit higher than normal and add pigtails to the rear kite's upper link lines to lean it back slightly
exaggerated, the front kite is / and the rear kite is \ with the wind <--- this way
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!