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Author Topic: Fades  (Read 7450 times)
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chrispie
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« on: February 14, 2010, 12:04 AM »

Hi all,

I would like to know what is the best way to get into a fade especially in high wind.

Currently, on normal conditions, i have no problem getting into a fade from a flare, and getting into a fade by spinnning the kite, follow by a half axel input and pop one hand hard enough..

Any other ways?
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anOldMan
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 12:58 AM »

Two possibilities exist in ground take-offs:

The ade launch - Kite is on the ground in a pancake position (on it belly with nose pointing away from you), give a pull on both lines and the kite will go into a fade.

The nose launch - kite in the center of the wind window on its nose, pull with both hands until the tail of the kite is pointing towards you, give the kite a sharp two handed pop and then slack. The kite will pop into the air and into a fade position.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 11:47 PM by anOldMan » Logged

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Allen Carter
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 08:01 AM »

Holding a fade for any length of time in high wind can be difficult. Pancake to fade is probably easier in strong wind. You'll have to be moving forward to hold the kite in a fade. It can be tough to move fast enough while keeping your hands steady.
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lasapcheong
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 08:38 AM »

Chris,

One way to get into a fade easier in high wind is to do a snap lazy, followed by a half lazy rotation before flipping into the fade (ala the half lazy flip back to fade move in a Jacob's Ladder).

If you haven't started learning the snap lazy or rolling susan yet, its a good idea to learn that first as those tricks are a bit easier in higher wind. Once you get the feel for it, incorporate the input for the half lazy rotation before flipping into the fade.

Another suggestion I would say is that do it with the dominant hand first to learn it, if you find yourself stronger with one hand than the other. For me I'm right handed and certain tricks (snap lazy for example) I find that I can do it better with a higher success rate with my rate hand than my left.

Once you manage to get into a fade in high wind, what I would suggest is not to aim to hold it indefinitely since the inland wind we have here sometimes can make it next to impossible. What I would go for is to maybe hold the fade for a few seconds, then learn how to exit it properly (half backspin into flying position or just to pull and fly down). IMHO that is more important than learning to hold a fade in next to impossible winds.

-Darryl
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chrispie
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 07:13 PM »

Hi Lasap, Cheesy

Yes, i am working on the jacobs ladder and is able to get into the fade from the half lazy...

Reason why i ask about the fade is that i realize so many tricks can be started off once you are in the fade position. Examples are the JL, backspin, where also many times it is easier to do a roll up by getting into the fade first and then half barrel (as compared to RAndy's roll up method, almost impossible for me in high wind).

My key prob is getting into a fade consistently. It is easy to get a fade in 5-8mph range.. but once it hits double digit wind, it is so darn tough, but yet i can see ken popping the kite into the fade without moving his feet.   Huh

I was watching Randy's tutorial on the Comet, and his first input, popping the kite while the kite is going up, is able to put the kite in a nose away position (perfect setup for a fade?), and i reckon it is easy to do that in high wind, so is that a possibility?

So I was just wondering what ways are possible to get the fade in high gusty wind. I am not trying to hold the fade, just into the position so i can kick off other tricks.
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Carlton
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2010, 08:22 PM »

Definitely as anOldman said, fade launch....
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2010, 09:00 PM »

I was watching Randy's tutorial on the Comet, and his first input, popping the kite while the kite is going up, is able to put the kite in a nose away position (perfect setup for a fade?), and i reckon it is easy to do that in high wind, so is that a possibility?

Yes, absolutely - what's happening there is essentially a half-axel which you can tuck under into a fade.  Like a lot of half-axel stuff, you can do it from any starting direction, but in high winds your best bet is probably flying upwards, somewhere in the high centre of the window.  A nice little sequence is to fly up, enter a fade from half-axel, over-rotate a flare to wrap the kite up, fly downwards, then 540-to-unwrap.
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2010, 09:39 PM »

The more you fly, you'll see you can pull the kite into a fade from many different tricks when the kite flares out. Slots, Axel, 1/2 Axel, Taz, Cascade etc. just pull it to the Fade position. In high winds be careful the kite can come out of the Fade full speed ahead which is straight down.  Like previously mentioned, the 1/2 Lazy pulled under to Fade is a fun good looking entry.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 02:18 AM »

Sorry if I missed where it's been said in this thread, but in high winds, Pancake to Fade is useless IMHO. 

You need to learn the 'fractured axel to fade'.  This is the 'half axel' like entry mentioned  by Adicakes.

I wasted years of flying by not mastering this trick earlier.  Not only is it more reliable, but the kite never goes through a position where it can power up (as in the flare to fade/pancake to fade maneuver).  It's always depowered until it reaches the fade, so you can then easily transistion between other floating positions afterward.

In higher winds, the flare to fade is also difficult because you simply need more slack and movement to get to the flare position in the first place.  Serious, this is NOT the move you want to work on when looking long term.  This is much more a move to learn what a fade is, rather than for what you want to achieve.

I think most experienced pair trick fliers would also agree that this is the best way to get into a fade, as the success rate is just plain higher across a much wider wind range. 

obi
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2010, 07:43 AM »

+1 on what Obi said. The fractured axel is by far the easiest way to get into a fade IMO.
Plus learning to control axel like rotations like working with the fractured axel will will probably make you much more comfortable throwing that sort of move just randomly into your flying. It turns into just another sort of turn, making it easier to recover from various missed tricks without looking so much like you messed up.
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 08:42 AM »

My favorite is half-axel to fade (its fast and a good looking entry), but I probably more often use the method obi mentioned just because it is nearly fool-proof no matter the wind.

If you are just learning how to do it, however, I think pancake to fade is best if the wind is not too high.  Its easy to go into flick flacks from there since you already know how to stop the kite on the way out and then flip it back.  You can do the pancake/fade on the edge even in high wind, but it is riskier for a nose-plant until you get very comfortable with the trick.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 09:56 AM »

I couldn't get it until some one smarter than me told me its like catching a water balloon.  I worked on that trick for months without luck.  When I went to catch it after it rotated, I applied pressure to the lines like if I were catching a water balloon and it worked for me.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.
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anOldMan
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 10:14 AM »

Chris,

If you can get a hold of the Trick or treat DVD, watch Lars in thefirst scene selection "Septenber Sessions". It is a tour de force of getting into fades from any position ways you probable never thought of. A very good DVD to have.  Wink
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jaydub
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2010, 10:43 AM »

I've a long history of struggling to master the HA to fade, although seeing some improvement on it recently.

I don't doubt the actual technique is very kite dependent, so advice from anybody from the DS/Talon school of tricking would be much appreciated.

Do you let the pancake go flat or pull back before it goes flat?

Do you pull through or give slack as the kite rotates from the pancake to the flare to stop the kite powering up?

Basic questions I know and TBH I'm almost too embarrassed to ask, but t's just one of those basic tricks I've never quite managed to master.

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fidelio
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2010, 04:26 PM »

jaydub, in talking about a flic-flac type movement on the deep space where you have 2 inputs; one to get from fade to pancake, then one from pancake back to fade. the deep space (in my experience) likes a small, controlled first input with the slack tended to the pancake position then a larger input followed by a LOT of slack to get back to the fade position.

i mention this specifically because it's the opposite of what i've found on many other kites. the kite in my profile picture likes a large first input and it'll do a big semi circle on it's own in a wide arc with lots of slack, and a quick pop will bring it back to the fade from the pancake, completely different feel than the deep space.

same trick, different feel to the input. which to the original poster is why learning to get into a fade consistently on the first kite you manage it with is difficult, because you have no successful reference. keep at it though, as this particular trick is one i think you'll plateau on, but have a breakthrough on one afternoon, or flying a different kite. for me, this trick was one i couldn't do one day, then could the next. however, i struggled with it consistently for a good eight months or so.

perseverance pays off.
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Fdeli
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